coordinated and we still run into this dangerous incident and extended delays that ultimately prevented us from completing the mission and taking these important life-saving supplies to the children that need them know when we haven't seen changed yet. and it's really needed urgently to make sure that hopefully as more trucks come in, as has been promised, that where a good to distribute that because these two things really go hand in hand, the delivery and the distribution. >> no question. so before we go, you mentioned that ade what happens to that aid? will it get delivered? >> we're hoping. so despite the incident, we're going to try again, hopefully this weekend, we're putting in another coordination request because it's just too important to give up. we've got treatment that we know can help the malnourished children in the north of gaza. and we desperately want to get it up there we'll test thanks so much for your time for joining us. as i said last time, we

spoke, please keep yourself and your team as safe as you can. >> thanks, jim >> i'm jim sciutto. the news continues the source with kaitlan collins, starts now these, cnn breaking news >> i've got some breaking news for you tonight. i've been speaking with sources and can now report a key attorney has left donald trump's legal team that lawyer happens to be a major witness in the classified documents case against him. tonight, i've learned that evan corcoran, his quietly departed trump's legal team. this matters because corcoran is potentially going to be a critical a witness against trump if that case ever goes to trial he was the one who went through the storage room at mar-a-lago about two summers ago, looking for classified documents after they received a subpoena from the justice department. trump allegedly misled him about the whereabouts of those documents,

and also encouraged him, his attorney to lie to the justice department remember, corporate actually had to go and testify before a grand jury investigating the case. after a judge ruled that he couldn't use attorney-client privilege to shield from investigators. the meticulous notes that he had taken about his interactions with donald trump as we later saw, those notes helps lay the groundwork for prosecutors to indict trump, referring to corcoran as trump attorney number one, 20 times. and that indictment if the documents case ever goes to trial, and that's a major question tonight. >> corcoran >> would likely be a key witness for the prosecution, even though he ultimately recused himself from representing trump in that case, he had stayed on for a bit and the other federal case against trump, the one for election interference if you'll remember, he was there alongside trump when he was arraigned and washington last fall? that is no longer the case though. i have heard. and here's why this matters

tonight. it's corcoran role as a witness in the documents probe that can pose the biggest problem for donald trump? corcoran recorded voice memos that turned into detailed notes about his conversations with the former president, including instances where trump's suggested that he should mislead the justice department. >> there was that >> unforgettable moment that was detailed in the indictment from the special counsel, jack smith after evan corcoran had found some classified documents at mar-a-lago, about 38 of them. they were discussing what to do with them. evan corcoran and donald trump when the former president asked him, quote, did you find anything is it bad? >> good? according to corcoran >> notes, trump made a plucking motion during the conversation, which evan corcoran took to mean. >> okay. >> why >> don't you take them with you to your hotel room? and if there's anything really bad in there, like, you know, pluck it out of course, as we all know now. and from that indictment, a few months later, the fbi

showed back up at mar-a-lago with a search warrant. i've an all-star team here with us to discuss this breaking news. cnn senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor elie honig, and also seen in political commentator and senior political correspondent for the new york times and trump biographer maggie haberman. >> and >> maggie, i mean, just to hear this quiet, but a big departure from the trump legal team. >> yeah. it's very interesting because as you say, corcoran is a key witness. if this case ever goes to trial, he provided prosecutors and it was under subpoena. this was as you noted prosecutors went and pierced the attorney-client privilege under the crime fraud exception, the trump team had fought this. there was nothing corcoran could do, but corcoran kept notes. >> he >> he he had recorded notes of his conversations with trump and those were extremely helpful to prosecutors as they were trying to figure throughout certain things that had taken place in the aftermath of their repeated

efforts to try to get these documents back and their trip to mar-a-lago to try to get documents back. now one of the things that we have seen with trump repeatedly is lawyers leaving him. and what that ends up looking like or other witnesses and allies leaving him and what that ends up looking like. he's about to go on trial in manhattan and the key witness at the central witness is his former personal lawyer and fixer, michael cohen. so the notion of lawyers departing trump's world bold looms very, very large. now, i don't know when this case will go to trial. it's at the moment, it certainly doesn't seem like it's on track anytime before the election. what it would look like if trump loses the election, and then, then what happens with the case. we have no idea. but this is significant in trump's world, le, what do you i mean, just to hear something like this, what's stands out to you? >> the last thing that any criminal defense lawyer wants is to turn into a witness against his own client or former client. they try everything to avoid that scenario and for that reason, he's going to be an especially effective witness for the prosecution because it's going

to be clear to all involve that the last place he wants to be evan corcoran is in that witness, but sometimes that's the job. now, if people are willing witnesses to get up there and tell all, he just is going to be potentially four, you has to do his job, know if people are wondering how could an attorney testify against the client isn't there this thing we hear about called the attorney-client privilege. the answer is that has been pierced, broken in this case because you'll remember a federal judge ruled last year that the conversations that donald trump was having with evan corcoran were in furtherance of a crime that to be clear, does not mean evan corcoran was complicit in that crime, but means what trump was trying to do through evan corcoran was committed the crime of obstruction, so he's gonna be a really important witness. >> and that was so where i mean, that was a huge fight with the district judge in washington over compelling him to good go and testify that they fought. >> but in >> the end, i mean, they lost and he had to go and he couldn't say, oh, i'm not answering that question because it's attorney-client privilege he had to answer the question. it's a big deal to break through that privilege. i mean, that privilege is sacrosanct and judges do not do that lightly. so this judge held a

hold hearing and ruled, yeah. what donald trump is doing was trying to break the law through evan corcoran and evan corcoran role here is he was sort of the unwitting vehicle through which donald trump misled the fbi. >> it's very specific to the obstruction piece of this investigation and the obstruction piece of the investigation the documents investigation tends to get overlooked, right? it gets the part that gets focused on is the national security secrets that trump had at mar-a-lago. but there's also this second aspect of allegedly misleading investigators and that is where m. corcoran is a big piece. >> and i should know, and this is important. the trump legal team, or the trump team is denying those. they're denying are reporting. we reached out to them before we came on they said that evan corcoran is still there on the legal team. they're arguing. but i >> get i respond to their denial. sharkey can't possibly stay on the legal team. i mean, it's almost a mathematical impossibility once you are a witness against the person which he now is, you can't stay on the rising. it took this long >> yeah. yeah.

>> the trump team also said that the new york time it was wrong and saying that trump has been privately saying he liked to federal abortion ban. and we were not wrong. so do it that what you will, you are quite familiar with the history of denials, right? but maggie, you were one of the first people and your colleagues to report on the notes that evan corcoran took and i think when people are looking back at this and they're trying to remember which attorney is this in which case the notes we're live? the ballgame that kinda shocked trump and others that he had such detailed notes of conversations that he had with donald trump. >> we were also the first people actually to report on the efforts by prosecutors to pearce attorney-client privilege to the crime fraud exception. and what we learned about why they wanted to do that was detailed in these notes and one of the things that's so striking about it and you know this very well, donald trump doesn't like when his lawyers take notes. he doesn't like when anyone around him takes notes, he he has been like this for decades. there was a meeting that he had at trump tower many, many years ago where he swooped in behind a junior lawyer at his conference table and crumpled up the notes. the guy was taking this was his approach in the white house. this is his approach so the notion that

there was such a detailed roadmap by one of trump's lawyers is disquieting to trim if i can add that the fact on the contrary, that evan corcoran was taking such detailed notes and he was doing voice memos, right where it was while he was driving, right? while he was just so he's taking extraordinarily detailed notes that tells me he had to have some inkling like i'm going to need to memorialize this at some point. >> well, and we've seen the history of trump attorneys who have gotten in trouble before. i was think about this moment. we interviewed trump employee five, brian butler than former mar-a-lago employee in the classified documents investigation, he brought up this attorney for people who maybe are wondering who he is. i just want to play the moment of what brian butler told us about this it's, it's funny because i remember seeing this taller guy. think flick back silver hair. i think it was who i now know to be evan corcoran and, i saw a bunch of other people in the living room. >> i had no clue. i'm just seeing all these people. i have no clue what they're there for. i was on the cloister outside over by the bar and the

former president was walking towards the living room like he was gonna enter the living room. he was with secret service. i remember he said hi to be hi, brian i'm mr. trump or president trump and then he went in and talked to them, but i had no clue who those people were >> well, you're now he knows, but that moment matters because that was when corcoran was searching to find the documents that matched the subpoena, thinking he had gone through the boxes, but what we know from what's alleged new diamond, it's trump was telling these other guys to move move them the day before corcoran went through that mar-a-lago storage room? >> yes. and one thing that i was just thinking about what ellie said a second ago about how am corcoran may have felt the need to memorialize what was happening in a normal world, taking notes about what's happening, especially in this kind of a scenario where you are dealing with the fbi is not abnormal. this is actually what here's do you take notes you make sure that you have a detailed record of everything that you have done. so, yes. evan corcoran was doing what he thought that he was supposed to be doing, as we

understand it, which is look through a set of boxes. it turned out that there was what prosecutors have described as a shell game, and investigators have described as a shell game with these boxes that was a significant moment. it just looked different than what people realize from what they were seeing in that moment. >> yeah, i guess it does speak to the level of what it's like to be an attorney working for donald trump. >> it's a tough gig. i mean, look like let's look through the history you mentioned michael color, right? we've seen johnny smith. now. he's indicted. he lost his license. jeffrey clark he's indicted. he lost his license. sidney powell, she's indicted. agenda ella, she's indicted both pled guilty. rudy giuliani, i mean, it's it's really hard to think of an example of someone who is represented trump and come out of it with their financial situation intact. they're professional reputation intact their exposure to crimes intact. it's a grueling job, it's a tough gig and here we're going to end up with a situation where this guy is going to take the stand against his former client depending on what happens with the case. >> and also the original attorneys who were working on these two cases when they were still investigations and not

actual cases. they're all gone from the legal team. john rally, jim, trustee. now, i've corcoran, all those names are not going to be the ones taking this to trial. now, i mean, trump cycle through lawyers. we have seen this over and over and over again. this goes back frankly, many, many years, but certainly at least from when he's from the time when he was president on, he cycled through lawyers during the molar investigation. he cycled through the layers around his efforts to stay in power. he has cycled through lawyers since leaving the white house. he's about to go on trial. we'll see what this looks like to that end. let me just >> phage like, watch the >> dynamic between his legal team and donald trump and you both will be reporting on this because there's always a little bit of tension at trial. sometimes the defense lawyer wants to go one way, the client wants them to be more aggressive. here are less aggressive, they're and that can bubble over and sometimes that gets reflected in the courtroom itself. you've seen it already, at least in the civil cases, there was a lot of donald trump literally poking at his lawyer, alina habba, to get up. >> and you just reported on his latest attorney, todd blanche, around he is now at the

forefront of all and how he has changed his life around donald trump, which is what a lot of layers to maggie haberman, elie honig always great to have you both onset of the great to have you tonight. of course, before all the trump legal drama, there was the trial of the century last century back in the public consciousness tonight with the death of oj simpson, we're why did you join in moments by a member of the so-called dream team who helped oj simpson get acquitted of double murder also hear someone who missed a while, oday simpson was in the backseat of white ford bronco and the police chase. that was seen around the world. >> that's bob costas back in a moment the, source with kaitlan collins. >> he's >> brought to you by up devo plus your voice. find out more at up diva oh.com >> if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities discover a different first treatment immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer, but up devo plus

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that follow space shuttle columbia, the final flight two part finale, sunday at night hi, and on cnn >> the bronco chase, the fall from grace, the trial that would transfix an entire nation. and the verdict that would then divide it, oj simpson's death from cancer at age 76 today brings so many back two, >> what >> connected americans then, or their television screens around 95 million people watching the same stunning scene in disbelief, a heisman trophy winner, nfl hall of famer turned movistar writing down a los angeles interstate. in the backseat of a white ford bronco and what may still be the most story police chase in american history? simpson was charged that day with the murders of his ex-wife, nicole brown simpson and our friend, ron goldman. he went on trial later that year, almost 30 years ago

what would be dubbed the trial of the century captivating a country hollywood crime race policing, reality tv and court tv all wrapped into one. many of people were glued to cnn throughout at all. this hour, in particular, 9:00 p.m. eastern became appointment television everyone wanted to see who the late great larry king would have on to talk about the developments in that trial >> jurors get to hear about past acts of violence. or would that prejudice them? these are all questions the judge ito is grappling with. and this latest round of hearings in the oj simpson case, she was bruised, she was injured. were their photographs that you're thinking allegations he did you write you're able to say allegations. my eye about the oj you knew you, jay, i knew could absolutely have done this enter to this >> it was all oj all the time. viewers were mesmerized by what was happening in the courtroom. of course, there was the

infamous glove if it doesn't fit, you must acquit >> then in 1995 the first a moment when time seemed to stand still we, the jury and embarrassing tidal action, find a defendant or jaw orenthal, james simpson not guilty of the crime of >> murder in violation of penal code section 1807 a felony upon nicole brown simpson, a human being a defendant, orenthal james simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder, in violation of penal code section 1807 a felony up. i'm ronald lyle goldman >> it was a verdict that many didn't see coming that would polarize the nation. >> there were gasps there were also cheers, many from those who believed it was simpson, who was victimized by racist policing. 150 million people in total tuned in during that acquittal >> and then they got >> to hear for the first time from the acquitted defendant

himself. where else? but larry king live with us on the phone now, is oj simpson how are you >> i'm doing fine. and one, i want to thank you. i you a lot because so many of my friends have told me that you've been fair most of all, i want to thank that may head him as the johnnie cochran for the leaving from the beginning listening and putting his heart and soul on the line. to send me home. >> do you describe yourself as relieved angry what? >> a little bit of everything. i think my my basic anger and this is the last thing i'll say before i leave. my basic anger is these misconceptions because what they were reporting on the news what they were pointing on these various shows was not what the witness of this thing on set with larry king, the man you see there. it's johnnie cochran, civil rights attorney who was part of some sense legal defense team. a defense

team that fame and money allows him sent to hire famous local and national attorneys a group that would borrow a moniker from the 92 olympics a dream team. it also included star defense attorneys f. lee bailey and alan dershowitz, and also the dna expert, barry scheck. something also hired his friend, robert kardashian, the father of the kardashian sisters the first assignment for the case though, was robert shapiro >> robert shapiro has made a name for himself representing high profile clients, including ball players, vince coleman and darryl strawberry comedian johnny carson, and actor marlon brando sun christian. but in a matter of weeks as oj simpson's lead attorney shapiro has catapulted from criminal defense lawyer to international media star and i'm doing tonight by another member of the dream team of defense attorneys, carl douglas and carl, it is great to have you joining us. i just wonder

well, what was it like when you got this news today? >> you know kaitlan, first of all, thank you so much for having me on your show. i was shocked and surprised when i was awakened this morning to the news of o'jays death though we haven't spoken since the trial. i have followed his career. the app's and down of that since then and it was very shocking to me and my heart goes out to his four children over their loss >> well, and race obviously was such a central part of this trial, and it was two years after the rodney king police bd riots that followed. as the dream team is called yourself those as you crafted this defense, i mean how much was that at the forefront as you are calculating your what that was going to look like. >> what we as lawyers, kaitlan have an obligation to follow the evidence where it leads us

and robert shapiro crafted the theme of our defense even before johnnie cochran office was ever brought on to the team because his investigators discovered a workers comp claim that had been filed by mark fuhrman, one of the central detectives on the oj case and and mr. fuhrman contended that he needed address relief because of his abject malicious feelings towards the black and brown suspects or prisoners the nature of his racism was so virulent that he tried to separate himself from the police department. because of it. so that the theme for what our defense was going to be just following the evidence word letter >> there were something you said after right after the verdict came down in 1995, i just want with larry king here on cnn, i just want everyone to remember what it was moment was

for a second >> the client called the show last week, he will appear on nbc tomorrow night. how well how will he equate himself tomorrow? you know, i think it will be a tremendously compelling witness. he's a brilliant man. he was >> do you mean he's not a witness? come off? correct yes. >> there's a lot that he wants to say to set the record straight to change some of the missing conception that have been spoken about on the air. i think you'll do fine >> one, it's just remarkable to watch that clip and to see it. and you know, that interview with nbc actually never happened to carl. and i wonder you what you make of how oj simpson, how he handled this, how he talked about it or didn't talk about it. after all this happened you know, caitlin, i will say in all candor that i was extremely disappointed at the turns that his life took after the acquittal in october of 1995. i

know we lawyers had encouraged oj to go to the bahamas, to go to bermuda. we told him they would they would have a parade for him if he went back to jamaica, for example, on vacation for a few days, but no, he wanted to go back to the rockingham to return to his community de adore the revelations and the applause of his community that was a very essence of who he was not only as a person, but as a celebrity he was the first one caitlin back created a career from being an athlete out of whole cloth but he became iconic before michael. michael jordan before a tiger woods and he was the first one to talk to merge that connection of athletes and celebrity to a commercial nation that was embracing him in that way. >> when was last time you saw

him in person >> you know, i know exactly when it was it was in 2000 at the funeral of my friend and mentor, johnnie cochran, junior i remember that our sharp did was delivering the eulogy and he asked everyone who had ever worked for a for johnnie cochran to stand up. and there were many lawyers and colleagues who've stood up. and then he asked for anyone who had ever been represented by johnnie cochran to stand up. and i look to my right and i saw michael jackson standing up. and one roll back and maybe four theta over was oj simpson. wow, that was the last time, but i saw him in person, but that was indeed an image of the two of them together that i would take too much my grave. i >> mean, that's remarkable to hear. i mean, i know your job was your defense attorney. that

was your job. and what you were there to do in that in that case of entry but preserve our moment where you doubted his innocence or that you heard something that kinda made you it's funny because before we were ever brought into the case, i liked >> most of america had questions about his guilt. and then i had a chance it's been 16 months of my life combing through the evidence and then i had the opportunity to talk with oj as a person to understand his outlook hear him, think, and talk and i'll tell you, caitlin i will forever think two things one, that the prosecution air burden of proving oj simpson guilty

beyond a reasonable doubt and i believe there were police officers that messed with the evidence to convict someone on bey thought was guilty terrible indictment on the employees of the los angeles police department. but you really have to understand the times and the atmosphere in 1994 when this trial was held really appreciate the significance of the verdict? that would return one year later >> carl douglas, i mean, you had a seat history that very few people did. it's great to be able to talk to you tonight. thank you for your time. >> thank you so much for having me >> one way to describe oj simpson impact. it might just be best described as a split-screen i mean, even now on one side, there's the celebrity football player star. and also the suspected murderer the infamous bronco chase split

with the nba finals. >> even the announcement of his >> civil trial? yes. >> on a split-screen bill clinton was delivering the state of the union address. >> how many people remember that one? >> perhaps nowhere though was that split with reality more clear and how his twin verdicts were split along racial lines >> the finding of responsibility in the civil trial prompted cheers in parts of los angeles, his white community and suspicion elsewhere celgene, oj simpson's acquittal in the criminal trial produce cheers in much of the african american community. and dismay elsewhere for many african americans it clearly was not about simpson, the criminal trial not only exposed racism and one of the investigating police officers, it also expose the mistrust many minorities have in the criminal justice system she didn't legal analysts and criminal defense attorney joey jackson is here with me. enjoy it. i mean, just to go back to that moment of how the country

was like what so maybe you will maybe didn't understand fully about where the country was until something like this happened. >> without question. and remember this trial invented the 13th juror. what am i speaking about? i'm speaking about this 12 jurors that they are assessing guilt and innocence, but guess who the other jurors were. everyone else in the country who was glued to their television looking at every aspect of the trial and people had strong opinions because they followed closely the evidence. and when called douglas brilliant interview by the way, was speaking with you. he left off there and he said you have to understand the context of those times we remember if you think about rodney king, rodney king was african-american motorist who was beat, beat savagely by the lapd the officers was subsequently acquitted of that. and so there were horrible feelings about police, about police misconduct, about what policing was doing, particularly in communities of color. and as a result of that, what happens a couple of years

later, oj now is embroiled in this double murder. and the defense team here was masterful at not making it about the too pressure souls that were lost, which trial should be about, but making it a larger indictment about a system that runs a mock, that doesn't treat people fairly particularly people that don't, people black and brown people and so what they did this dream team, as you noted, that they would dub is they turned it into mark fuhrman being racing a system that really disregards people and they were brilliant in doing that. it resulted in an acquittal. and to your split-screen analogy, you had some people who were cheering the verdict and other people who are dismayed and saying, are you kidding me? and then of course we have a civil case two years later and there was accountability as i've system allows civil being monetary damages in which caitlin, he was found responsible, liable for the murders. but of course, in a criminal context, he was acquitted >> just a remarkable moment. joey jackson, great to have you always thanks you. >> not only did my next guess

>> cover that infamous bronco chase is a tv sports caster. bob costas got a call from oj simpson. while the police were chasing and we'll talk about that in a moment. and what was it also like to visit some sit in jail as he was waiting on trial, will speak to bob about it. all right. after this when you're the leader, that's the cleanup and respiration. how do you make like it never even happened >> happened i don't brand >> whatever comes your way >> there's a pro for that. serve crow like it never even happened >> file 100% free with turbotax free edition roughly 37% of taxpayers qualify form ten, 40 and limited credits only see

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that. just throw the gun out the window just throw it out the window nobody is going to get hurt i'm the only one that deserves no, you don't deserve that hurts you not deserve to get hurt. you to get hurt don't >> do this idea with love nicole. all i did with the lover my next guess, not only witness that infamous moment, he helped cover it. bob costas was covering game five of the nba finals between the new york knicks and the houston rockets. when he was told to cut into the coverage to cover the chase when i the rockets have reached half-time. but before we talk about basketball, let's return to tom broke off for report on the still developing which is simpson story. and here's tom at our manhattan studios. tom we are witnessing tonight a modern tragedy and drama of shakespearean proportion being played out live on television

and bob costas joins me now. i mean, bob what's it like for you to remember that that night on a day like today well, it >> was surreal and you have to keep in mind that many of us at nbc, not just on-air people like tom and marv albert who was calling the game and me, but many people, technicians and others knew oj simpson and we knew him as a hail fellow. well met, nice to everybody accommodating to fans and all arrests. so the shock of the accusation and then his apparently fleeing and you hear he had $10,000 in cash in a bag and he's got a gun was had all this stuff was hard to process but what also made it even stranger was as you said, we're covering the nba finals had been a regular game. i'm sure we would have done what every network did, every other network, which was go full to the bronco chase. but this was game five of a tide nba final between the knicks, the biggest

market in the country, and the rockets. so nbc had a decision to make. and from time to time, marv albert, who was calling the game with throw it to me. i would pass the ball in effect to tom bro car. he would do his report than other times we had a split screen. most people didn't have cell phones then. but what where did gotten around the garden. and so there were fans leaning over marv albert shoulder to try and see his monitor. i was in a different part of the arena. there leaning over my shoulder and asking me what information i may have. and then i found out subsequently that even though this was the nba finals, not all players, but some of them, kaitlan, when they got into the locker room at half-time, they weren't so much listening to pat riley or rudy tom, jada. what's up with this oj thing? give me an update on this in the middle of an nba finals game. so it was it was very strange. that's for sure. well, and you make a >> good point that you all knew him. you personally knew oj simpson as you're watching all this play out, which i mean, as

a journalist has gotta be a strange feeling. but also you later learned he tried to call you from the bronco? yes. yes, he did i didn't have a cell phone in 1994. i've always been behind the technological curves, so there's no way i was going to have one that early he called my house in st. louis. there was no one there >> he >> tried other ways to reach me and then it occurred to a maybe i can get him through the studio line because we did the nba show from the same studio where he and i sat and did the nfl show. but since we were all at the garden, there was no one there and finally on whatever attempted was by lj, a technician answered the phone and he heard, i need to speak to bob cost. he's not here. i have to speak to him. well, he's not here. i have to speak to them. well, who's calling oj simpson? yeah. right. >> click. now, i don't know any of this as i told brianna keilar earlier today, a few days go by. we go to houston were games six and seven were played and on an off day, i get a call at the hotel from a

woman from time magazine. he says, we hear you oj simpson tried to call you and i say, i think truthfully at the time, no, that never happened. the whole conversation lasted like a minute. now, fast forward to november of 94, and i visit oj simpson his request in the la county jail, the trial didn't start until a couple of months later, so he's in jail and robert kardashian picked me up at the hotel, took me there. now all cowlings was there, so it was the three of us and oj and al then as part of smalltalk, say, we tried to call you from the back get the bronco and i inquired, why why would you call me in that moment? and his statement was they were the press was on me not so much about this, but about my whole reputation on my whole life. and in effect, he wanted me to act as a character witness for him. but of course that never happened and i don't think he appreciated what my job would have been in that circumstance, yes. especially if you wanted to go

on the air, i would've had to have asked in the same pointed questions as any journalist would have, but it never came to pass. >> we're showing video of you leaving that night and in november 1994, i mean, what was it like to go visit him? in jail. >> i don't think i'd never seen that video until just now. it was odd. they brought him around a corner, shackled at both ankles and both wrists wearing the blue prison jumpsuit looked to me like he lost about 20 pounds but much of his personality was still intact. that kind of jockey killer kidding around between sports guys. he and i got along very, very well. and i remember that when he sat down, they removed three, but they kept one ankle shackle. they attach to the leg of the chair and the way you shake hands since there was glass between us as you put your hand up and match his to shake hands? and it was awkward to make small talk and he tried eventually, as i'm sure he did with others to convince me that

he couldn't possibly have done this. bob, you know me, i wouldn't do this. and if i did it, i'd be smarter than to leave all this evidence behind or however he phrased it and to everything he said, i just said as gently as i could well, you're going to have your chance to tell your side of the story in court and you'll be well represented by capable people and as it turned out, that jailhouse visit was the last time i saw or spoke to him. >> that was the last time you ever spoke to him? >> yes. yes. >> it >> was just never i think he deduced those in his circle of friends who still believed in his innocence, and those who like me reluctantly came to the unavoidable conclusion that much as we would like to hold out a sliver of hope there was no other conclusion to reach other than that he did it. >> bob costas, i mean, you're one of the few people with amazing perspective on a day like today. thank you. >> thank you. caitlin

>> even more perspective coming up tonight from someone who not only knew oj simpson and called him a friend he was charged alongside him as one of his accomplices. isn't that 2007 robbery? >> the >> one that since some sent to prison for years, he's here with his reflections. next welcome to lobsterfest is your party ready ready to attack this new lobster and shrimp stack, ready for your lutcher lovers >> dream to come true the two of ten mr. creations plus cheddar bayes for days lobsterfest is ending soon. so hurry in >> hello >> are you ready to eat your demise >> may we really need to upgrade you? try? ashdod >> i shot shot taker. >> who programmed you >> see you tomorrow. >> the future isn't scary not investing in it is 100 innovative companies, one ets

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didn't know that his associates at guns. charles ehrlich was oj simpson's best friend at the time of friendship that ended after ehrlich took a plea deal and testified against simpson as one of the accomplices in that robbery. and he joins me now and i totally it's great to have you on a, on a day like today. >> how are you? well, you had such >> great, but you get you had to interesting experience here. we've been talking all about what happened before the murders and that trial, you had a very different perspective of oj simpson after that had happened? >> yes, i did he he was a dear friend and i never i never looked at it where, you know to me was always innocent in my eyes because we had that special relationship and he was a very loving father and very

caring and i never saw a bad side of him. he was a dear friend of mine. and from this de i still don't believe that he was involved in that array situation in la i i run a club here in north miami. it's called deans gold and he was a regular customer of mine back in the day everyone loved them. he was very well-liked and the years knowing him, we were we became very, very close i would have dinners that is house christmas thanksgiving, or now sydney justin very loving. he was a very loving father. kids, and, you know, i never i never saw him get angry. let me put it that way. and a years and years that i've known him.

now, once he was humble, people loved him he was charming. he never he never showed any any anger around me. >> well, can >> we ever he was he was he was a sweet man, >> obviously, ron ron in nicole's family, would they would see this whole very differently and they've made that clear tonight, we have their reaction coming being up in the show. but when you look back at his actual conviction that happened over 15 years ago, did you ever speak again after that >> i once brought it up. i just is about probably 17 years ago when we were together and i looked in his eye and he he almost had a tear in his eye at the time and he said, i loved her. i would never ever ever do anything to hurt her and i am a

man. and, you know, and i see the way that he his children, they loved him dearly and being around him in my heart. i can never believe he did it. never trust me i was around him a lot you know, i was confident a lot of times he'd asked me, you know, and i'd give him my advice >> but >> like i said, you know, everyone has their own opinion my opinion. yeah. no, i don't believe he he he would ever do something like that >> yeah. i mean, it's remarkable to think if that trial happened today, especially with dna evidence, just the way people viewed these celebrity cases now utterly are like you have a perspective that verse people do. thank you for joining me tonight and talking about thank you, caitlin. i appreciate it. thank you very much. >> and coming up here on cnn, laura coates is going to have a

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mesobook are firm only represents mesothelioma victims. >> and their families. if you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, call us now the cnn original series space shuttle columbia, the final flight is going to air this sunday. this wave will go inside the moments 21 years ago when people watched in horror as the space shuttle columbia broke up on reentry into the skies over texas here's a preview >> it was a saturday morning. i was preparing to come to work >> it was a >> beautiful day, beautiful dr. >> and as i turned on park street, i heard a loud boom i'll. >> resend our house just shook. >> we looked at each other and said, what is that the space

shuttle over meccano, which is what is what is happening. we had just gone through nine, 11. and at first i thought somebody bullet up. >> it was probably a reasonable thought that a lot of people had that it could be something terrorist related, even in a small rural area, because you never know where that might take place >> it appears that we have this area or an explosion. >> phones were ringing off the hook much more than our dispatch staff could handle your gell-mann so the two part finale of that original series, space >> shuttle columbia, the final flight airs this sunday, 9:00 p.m. right here on cnn. i've been watching and tell you it is a must watch nearly a decade before that disaster happened. that's when the double murders of nicole brown simpson and ron goldman happened we are hearing tonight from the goldman family on the death of oj simpson

after a jury acquitted him in 1995, ron goldman, sister kim, and his father fred, say that simpson's death comes as a shock to them, and that for quote three decades, we tirelessly pursued justice for ron and nicole. and despite a civil judgment in his confession in if i did it, the hope for true accountability has ended. despite his death, the mission continues also, new reaction tonight from one of the key witnesses at the trial in 1995, keto kaitlyn, who lived in oj simpson's guest house at the time of those murders, had this to say i, wish to express my love and compassion to the goldman's, to fred into kim i hope you find closure and finally to the family of beautiful nicole brown simpson. may we always cherish your memories >> kaelyn also expressed his condolences to the children of