filled with more surreal drama than all of his various film and tv projects. combined mass media experts say simpsons sensational, televised, low speed chase arrest and murder trial doesn't fit you must acquit stand as the first reality show. and perhaps the greatest three bring television phenomenon ever at one point, the world herc oj simpson's ex-wife, nicole brown simpson say, you don't want to stay on the line going to be then later, simpson was charged with horrific murders by knife of nicole and her friend ron goldman. >> ron and nicole work what shirt the trial made lawyers and even witnesses, household names are on file. james simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder when the jury freed simpson, celebration erupted in parts of los angeles. but simpson would never recapture his idol status simpson first, brennan into the

national spotlight as the heisman trophy winning running back at the university of southern california, then 11 spectacular years with the nfl vaulted him to the pro football hall of fame simpson cashed in on the popularity becoming a pitch, menn for hertz and an actor, becoming well-known for the naked gun movies. >> o, j simpson, as you've never seen them before, simpson played a lawmen on screen and ran into trouble with the court's off-screen he lost the multi-million-dollar wrongful death suit brought by the families of his ex-wife and ron goldman then moved to florida in 2000. simpson was accused of assault and a road rage incident in mind hey, me, he was found not guilty and 2005, he was found guilty and fined for stealing satellite television. then in 2007 in las vegas police arrested him on several felony charges, including kidnapping and armed robbery free in that case, simpson and armed accomplices

rate at a hotel room and what he called an attempt to just get back some of his stolen belongings and i didn't know i was doing one illegal. >> i >> thought i was confronting friends. in retrieving my profit >> the nevada jury never bought his story and instead sent him to prison he was released on parole nine years later in the dead of night with no fanfare and no bright future, just the distinction of arguably the greatest rise and fall in pop culture history >> what an amazing rise and fall it was jean casarez, is joining us right now if it weren't. thanks. stephanie elam for that report gene you covered oj simpson in those final years when he was in las vegas getting into more legal trouble, talk a little bit about that i was a correspondent for that kidnapping trial in las vegas and they were very serious charges. i think everyone thought at the time this is a life felony kidnapping. that's what he's charged with. >> but the factual

>> scenario was he and his cronies one to go get back some of his personal items like his trophies and things they were owned by others. so they hadn't meetings and they got together and they went over there well, two of his buddies had guns on them, one even pointed the gun and that culminated into kidnapping and armed robbery charges. i covered the trial. i was a correspondent. he was out on bail he would just talk to everybody in the whole and i would talk to him. but when he found out that i was from southern california and i graduated from usc, he just wanted to talk to me like crazy because of his passion for those days has passion for you as the i remember, he thought we went there together and i said no, no, no. i i went a little after you did. so i did i was much younger than him, but he was very humbled now when it got to the trial itself he had two sisters and they

came every single day to that trial and i got to know them. they were quiet they were demure. they would stand in a corner at breaks. nobody even knew who they were, but they were wonderful, wonderful ladies. one is passed away now, one i believe is still alive but they were there every day to support their brother. now, he was convicted. >> the >> judge couldn't stand him. it was so obvious the jury convicted him in many people, wolf believed, at the time that because he was acquitted in california, nevada was going to show that they meant business. you're not kinda get away with something in nevada where law and order and he was convicted by that jury sends to 33 years in prison. lovelock, northern nevada >> and we had >> heard after that that he became a mentor for young men in the prison that he was counseling them. and that was sort of his job there too. lead the right road in life. >> well,

>> he went before the parole board after nine years and that was televised two, we watch that when he got out and the parole board allowed amount, i was in las vegas and he went up, but the dead of night, but we heard that the next day we were still in las vegas, heard the next day? he was out at the golf course so he and he really loved fairly quiet life after that with some twitter videos, but he was still in the public eye all right >> jean standby >> if you're of a certain age as i am you of course will remember that moment back on october 3, 1995, when oj simpson was acquitted in the murder trial against for murdering nicole brown simpson and ron goldman. let me play that moment. so many of us will never forget it. watch and listen to this >> this is robertson superior court of california, county of los angeles in the matter of the people of state of

california versus oren thought james simpson so in case number be zero, we, the jury and the above, in title action, find the defendant or owens all james simpson not guilty of the crime of murder in violation of peanut holt section one at seven, a a felony upon nicole brown simpson, a human being as charged in count one of the inflammation superior court of the state of california, county of los angeles in the matter of the people's state of california versus or anthony james simpson. we the jury in the above and tidal action find a defendant or james simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder and violation of penal code section 1807 of felony up on ronald file, goldman, a human being as charged in count two of the information we, the jury in the above, tidal action further find a special circumstance that the defendant in an ortholog james simpson, has in this case been convicted of at least one crime of murder of the first-degree. and one or

more crimes of murder of the first or second degree to be not true. sign this second day of october 1995 der or two 30 ladies and gentlemen of the jury. is this your verdict? so say you want so say you all all right. >> council, mr. simpson, would you be seated, please have it quiet the courtroom, please prime. this is robertson. would you please pull the jurors? >> juror number one, as to count one, is this your verdict? jury number two, as to count one, is this your verdict juror number three, as to count one, is this your verdict juror number four, as to count one, is this your first? predict yes. juror number five, as to count one, is this your verdict juror number six, as to count one, is this your verdict during number seven, as to count one, is this your verdict? juror number eight, as

to one, is this your verdict? juror number nine, as to count one as a sure. verdict juror number ten, as to count one, is this your verdict juror number 11, as to count one, is this your verdict during number 12? as to count one, is this your verdict? >> historic moment in data and many of us will never forget that moment indeed, i want to bring in john miller, cnn's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst. as you are watching that video, what goes through your mind? it was really an incredible moment for so many of us well, it was a stunning verdict because while there was much drama in the case, there was significant evidence >> tying oj simpson to those murders that many people who watched the whole trial felt met the bar what the important lesson from the trial was, and what people learn from that dramatic moment, you just played was reasonable doubt

doesn't come in one chunk. it was the cross-examination of denis fung the lapd criminalised who was asked by moving one glove from the crime scene, to oj simpson's house, where the other glove was found to see if they matched, could that have caused a blood transfer the blanket that was put over one of the bodies could hair or fiber from the bronco are oj have come there a different way it was the testimony of mark fermin and what he had lied about. it was the doubt that was cast on denis fung and the scientific evidence collected. and the way it was collected and processed, was it put in the refrigerator? greater or wasn't it all of these things added up from the death of 1,000 doubts to one large reasonable doubt that convinced that jury in so many pieces it was just a basic amazing moment for so many millions and millions of people

who are watching all of this unfold gene that we saw the >> reaction in that video from the goldman family, they were in the courtroom watching the members of the jury acquitting oj simpson as the verdict was being read. what do we know about how the family is doing all these years later today >> they have remained in their pursuit for justice now, you know there was a civil trial, a civil case and trial following this, where they did get a civil verdict that he was liable for the wrongful deaths and so that was some solace now, for years they've been trying to get the money from that. they've had an attorney out of out of the west coast that has been gallantly trying to get any type of monies for that verdict really largely unsuccessful and all that but i think another thing about that criminal trial court tv's cameras are in that courtroom and court tv and cnn were the two networks that carried this trial. gavel to gavel. and this was almost a year long trial.

this was months after months of testimony, but it was really where the country got to see the demeanor of witnesses. they got to see the questioning. they got to see the expertise on those cross examinations like john was just talking about it. you don't have it second or third hand, you see it for yourself and that's why the country i think became even more fixated on this verdict. and when this verdict rang out, it did divide the country and it remained a mystery because what really happened to ron goldman and nicole brown simpson? on that day outside of that house, will we ever know the truth did oj simpson know the truth if so, that is gone forever and it's something that once that mystery just keeps perpetuating itself. >> and i think it's fair to say so much of the country is still divided over that verdict. all these years. later, everyone stay with us. we're going to continue our special breaking news coverage of oj simpson's death would take a quick break.

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of the state of california, county of los angeles in the matter of the people said california versus or anthologies simpson. we the jury in the above and tidal action find the defendant ortholog james simpson not guilty of the crime of mortar and violation of penal code section 1807, of felony up on ronald lyle goldman are human when being as charged in count two of the information force entirely >> all right. that was a moment. oj simpson was acquitted on october 3, 1995. that was the reaction from the audience during the oprah winfrey show. once again, back in 1995, oj simpson has died down with the age of 76 after a battle with prostate cancer. i seen as jean casarez is back with us, cnn's john miller, and cnn's legal analyst, joey jackson are with us as well. joey. first of all, what do you make of that reaction? well, from the oprah winfrey audience back in 1995 yeah.

>> i think wolf, it's speaks to the controversial nature of what people were thinking in their own views with respect to what they viewed as guilt or innocence. and so i think that you can look at reactions on oprah winfrey or reactions really throughout the country, not just limited to her for show. and you had some reactions that were very joyous and nature and you had some other reactions that we're not right and because people, some people thought that this was an unjust verdict, there were others who thought it was quite just stephanie, stephanie elam earlier broke down the context of the times. you look at things like rodney king and the beating of rodney king and the officers not being accountable, at least as it related to the state trial for beating rodney king in 1992 this year's earlier, you look at what the defense team did in the oj case in terms of tape making this the case about the alleged racism of the lapd, the transgressions of the lapd the

targeting of an african american community by the lapd mocked firm and who testified in this trial, they use of the n word, et cetera. and there were many who believed that apparently the jury believed that there was an injustice exact date upon oj simpson. and so what i make of it really wolf is it speaks to again, which will be debated throughout all time that's the question of whether the jury got it right. there those up till today, who will tell you that jury got it wrong? the civil jury thereafter. different case, different time. but relating to the same issues was oj simpson responsible, said the civil jury, they concluded right at some later time that he was responsible and issued monetary damages to the goldman family. certainly they would want right there, son and nicole brown simpson family would want her, but there was responsibility there. and so we could go on and we could debate this forever as to whether or not the prosecution prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, or whether they fail to do so. obviously sleep this jury believe that,

but i think it was largely connected to the sign of the times and what the defense did to make this a larger issue, not just about oj limited to the facts of what he did or did not do but the broader issue of policing, the broader issue of what police are doing, the broader issue of injustice, the broader issue of how african-americans are treated by a system and so that's why wolf in my view, you have distinctions in terms of what people were believing, where they joyful about the verdict or were they quite upset about the verdict? i think you'd speak to people today and get very mixed reactions. >> you're absolutely right at jame that clip from the oprah winfrey show, show when the audience reacting to the not guilty verdict, it really speaks to the way that case divided the country millions of people were divided over this verdict, right >> absolutely and what's fascinating, i told you that the trial took months. this was not a short trial. this was months, nine months, i think and the verdict came in after

30 a minute that jury rendered a verdict after a nine month trial, and because they have to look at the evidence and many people believed that that was based on emotion. it was not based on the facts, the evidence that was laid out right there and i think also celebrity may have played a role in that because this was southern california, this was oj simpson. this is someone who was adored in southern california usc graduate heisman trophy. this was their own person right there. >> and >> that may have all interplay with that also. and so the fact of whether he's guilty or not, yes. a jury rendered him not guilty, but forever more people will really think that maybe the result was actually should have been the opposite >> john miller, how did this verdict shape the way police departments, not only in los angeles, but all across the country collected evidence and approached these high-profile criminal trials well, it was a shock to the system of law

enforcement forensic talk about that scientific investigation division we're operating at a fairly i think we're i think we're losing connection with john miller, joey jackson. let me bring you into this. all of us who were watching the trial, it was on tv live every single day. we were getting a lot of analysis and after the trial ended, all of us were watching. we learned so much about the criminal justice system. we learned so much about the law and how the law a deals with these kinds of charges, these criminal charges talk a little bit about the impact, the long impact of the oj simpson trial on the legal profession yeah. >> i think it was huge wolf in every way. number one, when you look at a criminal justice system, you have to look at people in general, right? because it's people's confidence in a system that makes any system work. and so

here was a case where people were seeing for themselves the evidence was that was being put in on a daily basis. who were the witnesses who were testifying, evaluating for themselves the credibility of police witnesses, the credibility of dna evidence, the credibility of doctors the credibility of any witness who would testify, and then of course, you have the jury themselves that are there making that decision. you have a jury of 12 that has to establish proof of guilt or lack thereof, beyond a reasonable doubt. but then you have the 13th juror at home, who's making an assessment as to that. and so i think that in looking at that, it really gave us inside look to how the system and the criminal justice system operates, right? how do you select the jury? do you and can you get a jury that is fair and impartial and can regardless of celebrity, draw conclusions with respect to guilt or innocence? who is testifying in these cases? should we be believing police because they're police? or should we be skeptical? should we believe that people who do dna because they are experts in

that should we be challenging that? should we look at theories of cases. so it really gave us a ringside view into a system itself, and that it had because of the defense strategy in this case. well, how does peel back the mass in terms of wow, is the lapd really racist? how could mock firm and use the n word? can we trust them? why is it oj? who's responsible or is he guilty or not guilty? and so i think forever more, it had people looking, examining a system, questioning whether they should be confident or not confident about a system. and it was, of course, to trial i was happening in la, but the implication throughout the country for police policing, jury jury systems, court tv people looking at cases, reality tv that we have today will wow, it just had such an impact that had had an impact on us lawyers like myself, who we're becoming lawyers write and how, what lawyering is about what storytelling is about what prosecutors do. do they have sufficient evidence?

what does it mean to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt? so yes, it changed the system as we know it i would argue critical reforms as a result of this case, and i think that for evermore will look at this case is really the trial of the century, and it really earned the right to be called that because of all that we saw, all that it taught all the loitering on both sides and all that. it tried to do in terms of looking at the justice system and making can get more than the victims which are significant in this case. and remember, families are ailing to this day over the loss of nicole brown sense and and mr. goldman. but the reality is, is that a jury concluded, at least in the criminal case, that oj was not responsible and it made us take a very critical look at the system and what that system was it's all about. >> there was a unanimous decision by that jury. indeed, john miller, we've reconnected with you when our connection stopped, that you were speaking about the oj simpson case and how it shaped law enforcement all over the country. i used to work at nypd. go ahead and give

us your thoughts. how did the oj simpson case shaped lawn four? chrisman around the united states, that really made them look at their forensic collection policies and procedures. i mean, when you walked into the oj simpson case, you're like there's the bronco and o'jays drivers driveway. there's the bloodstain on the broncos handle. there's blood on the console, there's a blood trail leading to the house all of this has collected you go into this with not just detectives who are trained to do crime scene, but by criminalised, these are civilians trained in science this is their only job and they collected all of this and by most standards. that was a pretty high standard. when he was acquitted based on so much of the doubt about the about the forensics, about how it was collected, about the testimony of the experts and the cross-examination bringing into question things like, well why wasn't it in the refrigerator? well, because the refrigerator didn't always work for more

than a few hours at a time. crime scene units across the country. and this was before there was a tv show called csi, where everything's done perfectly and the results come magically within 20 minutes crime scene units really had to step up their game. and this was a challenge for a lot of smaller places where police budgets, budget cuts, getting gasoline and patrol cars paying over time cause challenges to invest in things like that. the fbi started, it's evidence recovery team it was worth extremely high training and consistent procedures cities up their game. it made a real difference. wolf, one of the really interesting things is oj simpson getting acquitted in a murder trial where both the eyewitness testimony and mostly the forensic evidence was so strong and then being convicted in las vegas in nevada and a fairly low rent case about trying to rob back stuff he said belonged to him.

>> and the >> difference in the two cases were significant the las vegas case wasn't about science, it wasn't about forensics, it wasn't about dna. it was about eyewitnesses who said they were in the room and what happened? was about video from the hotel showing the comings and goings of the people before and after the incident it was a he said he said case with direct testimony and that's where he got 33 years he was paroled after 8.5, but that's the kind of sentence you would get an a murder case as i think you raised the issue earlier, a lot of people thought that that was some subliminal payback by the criminal justice system four what many believed was getting away with murder, what others, as joey said, thought was justice and well-served >> the country was deeply, deeply divided on that issue as we all remember, everyone stay with me. we're going to take a very quick break up next i'll speak to a former cnn reporter who covered the trial are breaking news coverage of oj

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her uncle's unhappy. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. started today. accustoming >> i'm sunlen serfaty in washington, and this is cnn we're back with a breaking news. we're covering oj simpson's death from prostate cancer at the age of 76. joining us now, greg lamotte to former cnn reporter, who all of us remember covered oj simpson's 1995 trial. he did so for over a year. greg, you

went to simpson's house on the day of infamous bronco chase. and remember that as well. tell us a little bit about that >> yeah, it was kind of surreal really as you might recall, there was a letter that oj simpson has left to his attorney robert kardashian, which sounded to most people as a suicide note he disappears and then suddenly his bronco is located. and this chase ensued and i was told that some point in time go over to his house because it seemed that that's where he was adding and here he is with a gun in his hand and the backseat of aj callings bronco and you're watching the stunning thing on television. and then i get together with my crew and run over to his house, which was a scene unto itself.

waiting crow j simpson to arrive and one of the images that i'll never forget is that a swat team and tactical team were there and i saw this guy with a gun in his hand rifle running across the street, dressed up as a bush and in camouflage. and he ran and sat down and to the average person driving by, they would see that that was a bush so here we are thinking my god what's going to happen here when oj simpson arrives and eventually just around dusk the bronco pulls into the nottingham address and oj simpson sits in his car for quite some time before exiting the vehicle and in the meantime, it was exceedingly

tents as you can imagine >> it was really a moment that i'll, all of us who are watching will never forget. and you've pointed out that that infamous bronco chase really set the tone for the entire trial. explain that a little bit further. >> well, i mean, to the average person you would have to wonder why was this happening to begin with when you're weighing into whether a person is possibly guilty of the crime that they're accused of committing and not just winged into he must be guilty why why else would he have a gun in the backseat of his of a bronco threatening suicide. had written a note to his attorney indicating that that's probably what was in his mind at the time he was writing it and one had to surmise that oj

simpson had breached the end of his end of his life in his mind >> so >> that certainly wade into at least the public's impression of guilt or innocence at the time. and so i think that to a broad spectrum of people after a lengthy trial, the longest i've ever covered and have ever seen a jury comes back in a matter of hours with a not guilty verdict. it was a stunning period of time. >> yeah, they deliver it for less than four hours as i remember at the time. go ahead. >> well, if you mentioned growing up in buffalo and oj simpson being a hero of yours, i grew up in the dc area and i was barraged with do i like billy kilometer or sunny jurgen said at the time? we, would see

bumper stickers. i like sunny i like billing but the one thing we had in common is that i recall several t-shirts that i add white t-shirts back down, of course and using a black magic marker to write the number 32 on the back. >> i >> mean oj simpson in my mind at that time was a hero and an untouchable. and up godlike qualities and in the commercials of the hertz commercials of him running through the airport and go, oh, jae, go. and the subsequent movies that he was in. and living in brentwood and the beautiful life that he seemed to enjoy. that this guy was was something special from the time that he set foot on a football field to the time that he was retired? doing sideline reporting for nbc news or nbc

sports, i should say so it was quite a stunning thing to have happened >> i will say >> that shocking really >> yeah, it was totally shocking and he was a hero to so many of us on the football field. and the collapse that occurred only years later was so, so powerful for so many of us greg stay with us. i want to continue this conversation but i want to take another very quick break. are breaking news coverage of oj simpson is death will continue right after this >> sunday night of space are stoma whole story with anderson cooper, the james webb telescope. are we alone? followed by the two part finale of space shuttle columbia? the final flight, sunday starting at eight on cnn, stay tuned to learn more about this limited time offer from renewal by anderson. >> have you been looking at

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>> you never faithful sees the deals on top before they're shot with that. today we're following the breaking news oj simpson has died at the age of 76 after a battle with prostate cancer. >> so >> many millions of us will remember oj simpson's the legendary low-speed police chase during the summer of 1994. it was one of the most watched events in television history. jury and now what some 30 years later, it can still give those of us who remember it, goosebumps. let's listen and watch as a police officer tries to talk simpson into surrendering and stopping. listen to this >> let me get to my house. okay. we're gonna do 20 my whole body, i told kasie to get them. we're going to do that. just throw the gun out the window we're not going to buy it even letters she grew up there, just throw it out to

window, please. you scared everybody oj you there >> for me to keep you guys away from me. i know nobody's gonna hurt you for me. okay. it's for you. i know that, but do it for you for me, for me, i don't i know that, but do it for the kids to where you think your kids please just toss it scared everybody. >> i'm not going to hurt anybody. i know you're not going to hurt him. ready for me >> i'm just going to go with me, please. >> you skewing everybody though you're scared. >> just tell him all star. you can tell them later on today in the market, i was sorry and that i've done sorry. that i did that to the belief the bonus and i think you should tell him yourself battle and. i had to tell you if kids that the kids need you already say goodbye to my kid. listen, no, we're not going to say goodbye to your kids. you're gonna you're gonna see them again you want to see him again please. you're scaring us. you're scaring them >> please. you've been a good guy to man. i know you're doing the job. you will right from

the beginning. just saying if you and your job is to do a good job, okay. thank you. but there's a lot of people that love you don't throw it all don't throw it all away. i can take this. oh, yes, you can yes, you can you get your whole family out here >> i can't. they love you, man, >> don't throw this away don't do this they love you don't do it. oj >> it's going to work >> itself out it's going to work it's going to work you're listing to me. i know you and you're tnking about your kids right now, aren't you? thinking about you thinking about you so as your mother your mother loves you everybody loves you, don't do this i know you're thinking, oh just draw it out the window. nobody is going to get hurt

>> i'm the only one i deserved. >> no, you do't deserve that hurt. yo not deserve to get hurt? get hurt >> don't do this friday. i would love nicole. all i did with the lover. >> i understand. i love everybody so everybody my whole life that i love everybody. >> we know that and everybody loves you. especially affects your mother, give kids all your friends, ac everybody does >> don't do this just put it down, are thrown out the window >> what a powerful few moments that was the chase ended by the way peacefully minutes later, joining us now is geoff may less helicopter photographer. with cnn affiliate kcl. jeff, you were on the air live with cnn for an hour-and-a-half following that infamous bronco chase from the year, give us remember what it was like. what was it like watching all of that unfold from your unique perspective?

>> you know what will fit the day began with quite a frenzy. commander gas kohn with lapd at 11:00 a.m. made it alive. announcement on television that oj simpson was a fugitive from justice. and at that point, all of the news media helicopters and los angeles launched and we're looking for for that white bronco i came on at about 3:00 p.m. in the afternoon and we relaunched the helicopter and we headed down to orange county because there was speculation that oj had gone to nicole's grave site. i believe that was in san clemente here somewhere down there in orange county. >> we launched and flu every freeway in los angeles looking for a white bronco, we we spotted a couple of them, but it wasn't his. >> and then >> finally, in south orange county at the el toro why we came upon the bronco that was being followed, i believe at that point by one black and white car and there was an

announcement over the police scanner. we have the one at seven suspect vehicle in our sites and we're following right now. so that's when we stayed with it i worked at the time, four kcal tv and los angeles, which was a big cnn affiliate. and as soon as we got the bronco into our sites are local station took it live and it was only moments later that we heard over the

>> john, but what happened, wolf, over a period of time over crossing, there began to gather more and more crowds of people because what they were doing, people were hearing it live on the radio and they were also tuning into their television sets so people were leaving their homes and their work and wherever they were and they were racing to these overpasses and putting together make shift banners and things like that. so it really began to morph into this celebration of go oj, go oj. but that really, when i saw that level of activity with people people that's when it really struck me that, hey, this is something something historical that's happening right here in my first thought,

certainly as an aerial photographer was don't mess this up. this is an important shot to hang onto here. >> then remind our viewers, jeff oj was a beloved figure in la and sudden in california for his years going back when he was a heisman trophy winner at the university of southern california, when he was an all nfl star with he certainly was in wolf. what's interesting about that question that you asked is that when when i was young, i used to watch the usc football games. my father was a graduate student that you see at the time that oj was playing football there. so i had an intense knowledge of oj it was from a young age, following his usc career and into buffalo with your buffalo bills, i will say and it was quite a career that he had. and one of the things that happen with oj is that he developed and turned into this sort of celebrity

beloved character that everybody just admired. >> i >> mean, i'll never forget the commercials with him jumping over the chairs of the airport and people just thronged around him when he was in public seeking autographs and his popularity was pretty unbelievable at the time. >> yeah, it was amazing. he was he was unique and so many of us, we loved him at the time. we didn't know what was about to happen, but he was certainly a beloved figure all across the country, especially those of us like me who loved the buffalo bills, jeff. thank you so much for spending a few moments with us on this important de geoff baylis joining us from los angeles i want to continue the conversation right now with a very good friend and old friend, roger kawasaki was seen as legal analyst during the oj simpson trial. roger, first of all, give us your reaction to oj simpson's death. you covered that trial? >> well, yeah. thanks. well, so

nice to be with you. i was surprised as anyone else. i i had heard that he was suffering from a form of cancer, but of course didn't know that it was as terminal as it turned out to be. then it's a shock i guess to me and to everyone else that oh, jay, who's been such a figure in everyone's lives for so many years. an unforgettable figure has gone, is gone >> yeah, it's hard to believe the way this all has unfolded. he was apparently suffering from prostate cancer for quite awhile, treating it. but obviously in the end, that killed talk a little bit about the lasting cultural impact from that first criminal trial and the way it divided our country at the time >> yeah, that's i guess something that's probably the legacy of the oj simpson matter and trial is divided this country seriously so along a racial grounds and then doing

the verdict came in, you know, will fight. i think i was very close to you and when the verdict came in, all of us were surprised and shocked in particularly how quickly the verdict was delivered after they'd been sequestered for so long and the end been out for so long so it made an impact. we saw pictures of of african-american people cheering the verdict and others in shock. >> and it brought up >> the amount of racial divide i didn't certainly the feelings great deal of the feelings about people had about the police in america and certainly how people of black people viewed the los angeles police department you know people have asked me throughout the years it was it the correct verdict did he do it >> and all of those kinds of things and i've told them that we would asking me in terms of what was this just a racial verdict. and i've always said

that reasonable doubt is what i say. my reasonable doubt is that what you say you're reasonable doubt is and that's why there's 12 people on the jury but remember, mark firm and got caught lying about the glove at about the use of the n word. >> and >> i always thought to myself, if i was an african american jewry, i wouldn't have believed the word he said. his evidence would have gotten thrown out right away. >> and >> then i thought they did a very good job with the dna >> and >> marsha clark's timeline >> never >> really added up. so remember you when you go to a jury, you don't ask him, is he guilty or is he not guilty? you ask them, did the state prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt or did they not prove their case? this is beyond a reasonable doubt. and i always felt that if i who knows what reasonable doctor is, it's a personal individual decision. but there were problems in that case. having said that, i have my own personal opinion about whether he did it, but i will tell you

that there were problems in that case. that's prosecution had. and i wasn't overly shocked by the rift. >> yeah. important point there, roger cossack, a lot of all of us will remember your special analysis, your coverage of this trial. thank you so much for spending a few moments with us on this important day. roger, caustic, helping us appreciate the enormity of what happened only a few decades ago. and to our viewers, thanks very much for watching we'll flexor in the cnn newsroom. you've been watching are breaking news coverage of oj simpson's death. i'll be back later tonight, 6:00 p.m. eastern in the situation room. of course, back tomorrow, 11:00 a.m. eastern in the cnn newsroom. much more of this breaking news right after a short break are you all teams retard for a waterfront >> redemptions you down. >> we're going to >> bring it, but only one will make us flash. i think we nailed it, rocked the box season finale monday night at nine on hgtv >> welcome to the place where

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