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tv   Inside Politics With Dana Bash  CNN  April 4, 2024 9:00am-10:00am PDT

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designer sales at up to 70% or so of gilt.com today today on inside politics, president biden is speaking right now with this prime minister benjamin netanyahu. it may not be the friendliest of chats by is said to be furious at how netanyahu was prosecuting the war in gaza. the question is, will there be any us policy change? plus the electoral
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battle in nebraska, donald trump is demanding the state change. how would awards its electoral votes? >> nothing is going on, there's not a whole lot we know, but we do what us officials at the white house, were saying about his president's feelings going into this exchange. >> that's right, dana, the two liters or on the phone as we
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speak right now, that call happening and getting put together in recent days following the attack on the convoy for humanitarian assistance into gaza. and finally, the situation in rafah, a senior administration official telling me that it is
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still unclear to the us exactly what israel's intentions are with regard to a major military operation. there despite the fact that the two sides held along virtual meeting this week to try to discuss some alternatives there, dana. >> okay. i'm sure we'll be speaking to you as soon as we hear that this phone call is over. thank you so much for that reporting and some of president biden's fellow democrats are demanding that he do more than expressed outrage. they want him cnn analyst gloria borger, jasmine abu talib irls.
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>> you have prime minister benjamin netanyahu also saying,
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we don't care what you say us, we're going to do what we need to do so much of each of what those menn are doing is for their domestic political gold consumption. and that is really important for people to understand. well, it is because they are listen to what he's saying. and that hasn't happened so far >> not to be too cynical, are skeptical, i think is been go ahead a word to at least make clear publicly that he is trying to get us to listen really mean that that's also a part of why we know that this call is going on. and so forth. but part of your point there is that the us, the biden administration, this is new reporting from natasha bertrand did just recently authorize more bombs for israel. and the reason is because it is the biden administration's policy
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that israel does have the right to defend itself and does support their attempt to dismantle hamas. >> that's, that's absolutely right. the biden administration and biden himself will say they're concerned, their outrage, they've been saying for months, they want more humanitarian aid to get into gaza. now gaza's on the brink of famine. it's just like catastrophic humanitarian situation on the ground. so on the one hand, they're saying we disagree with the way israel is prosecuting this war. the civilian deaths are too high. aid workers need to be protected. the humanitarian situation is disastrous. but on the other hand, they're not conditioning or threat or even threatening to condition eight and any way at those at the same time that they express outrage over these various incidents that have happened over the last few months. they very quickly we'll say no, our policy isn't changing no, we're not considering
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suspending or conditioning weapon i talked to many people yesterday who said, as with netanyahu, biden, can express all the outrage he wants himself or through aides but until he's willing to take some sort of punitive action or impose some sort of consequence netanyahu is not going to listen to a word of what biden is saying. >> and you're going to hear from and you're going to hear from the other side that is just not enough until he does that and he's getting pressure from both sides from all sides >> but it seems like he's as much as he is trying to do his biden thing where he moats and he tries to bring people in and listened and make them feel heard. it's not working here. i think another really interesting thing that happened, i think today, chris who is a very close biden ally, you can usually see the world through. you don't care for biden, you can hear it from chris he is someone who just said today that he would support conditions should netanyahu said that on cnn, on
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cnn, the days blend together no, i don't i don't but he but he said he would be open to supporting conditions and he said, i've i've never been here before. >> senator van hollen has been saying that for some time. >> can i just add one more name into the mix that i think is surprising? and i'm what to get your reaction to this gloria. i just spoke with senator lindsey graham, who i'm it's hard to find a more ardent supporter of israel, its right to defend itself. it's fight to dismantle hamas. here's what he said to me. he said the big prize here now is to end the arab-israeli conflict. that's a blow to hamas and iran the war with hamas has to be looked at through the prism of the bigger deal. i know israel has to destroy hamas, but operations in rafah and in general you have to look at these operations, how these operations affect the overall deal, which is normalization. so just translation. he's basically saying israel needs to have a little bit of restraint here because they need to keep their eye on the prize, which is perhaps a deal
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with saudi arabia, which could actually have a really big effect on gaza long term not to mention the fact that it was those normalization talks that many people believe was the reason why iran paid hamas to have this attack to dismantle those talks, right? i always used to say to my kids, actions have consequences and actions. that's what he's saying. he's saying. you got to take the long view here. and i understand what you're doing. i understand the need to defend yourself and we understand what hamas did. but we need to take a longer view here. about the future and as you pointed out, he's one of the most ardent supporters of israeli. >> do you think this is telling, i don't know it was i
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felt like it to i think it's telling because i think what he's saying to netanyahu is you're not looking at the big picture here you're just looking at the days of destruction, so you can go to people in israel. let's say, look what i'm doing to hamas. but, he's saying there's more to it than that, and there's more to it than bibi netanyahu's political future. yeah, i do think it's important. yeah. lindsey graham is saying yeah. >> and >> then you have the other man running for president or the man running to beat joe biden, donald trump, and i think if you have paid attention to donald trump and saw what he did in the mideast when he was president, you would think that he would say hey israel do whatever you need to do. >> he's not saying that. listen to what he told few huot just this morning
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>> what i said very plainly is get it over with and let's get back to peace and stop killing people. and that's a very simple statement. get it over with. they got to finish what they finished, its have to get it done, get it over with, and get it over with fast. they're losing the pr war. they're losing a big. but they've got to finish what they started and they got to finish it fast. and we have to get on with life i, mean i think this is a recognition both lindsey graham's comments about looking to the bigger picture and arab peace. and then donald trump's comments or a recognition that this war is, has been catastrophic for israel's public image. there's a whole new generation of voters who have been protesting very fiercely since the start of the war polls now show a majority of americans disapprove of israel's prosecution of the war. and so i think there is a recognition by republicans who are of course, israel's most ardent supporters. and of course joe biden that this war is his costing them politically in terms of their support because there are these horrific images and the death toll that it being prolonged is not going to be helpful. >> and jackie losing the pr war. that was i think the key part of what trump was getting at and if you talk to a lot of israelis, they don't care about the pr war. they care about avenging would happen on october 7 and about destroying hamas. so it doesn't happen again. i'm not going to >> read too much into that statement because it is so steep and policy, i'm kidding. but it but what he's saying,
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get it over with. >> what does that mean? yeah, exactly. what does that even mean? does that that certainly doesn't point to any kind of humanitarian situation. i think what he's saying is he's he's he's talking just about how it looks not know what is at stake here for all stakeholders and what do you think netanyahu is trying to do? he's trying to get it over with me. >> right >> and so i agree with you. i don't quite understand what trump's point really is in the real-world. what does get it over with me and we know they're losing the pr war. we got that. >> well, i think i think there's a growing fear and acceptance by us officials that netanyahu is prolonging this war for his own political survival as well. so i think there is a sense that this is being dragged out. there's escalation now with iran and hezbollah because netanyahu, it's in his political interests to prolong the war and >> hostages. we're going to work well, that >> thank you for saying that, but there's also an important conversation that we might have later, which is that a key
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member of the coalition says that there should be new elections in september, but we'll talk about that later. hopefully we'll hear what happened in that call coming up. we're going to turn back to really important politics here in the after weeks of sidestepping the abortion debate, donald trump teases that he will be talking about soon. we have new reporting on that next great teammates trust each other. we're going to do a trust falls stand up close. you want before trust >> what >> up doc >> i told you it done. >> you've got better things to do than clean out clog gutters, call me filter today. and never clean out clog gutters again, we filters technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good guaranteed colleague 3-3, the filter today or physically, filter.com choice >> hotels is a family of brands with a hotel for any traveler you want to be like number one chef, dad, cook it up a free
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was asked of course, in the context of florida's new law, that would essentially allow the six-week abortion ban to go into effect. in 30 days and his team had put out a statement on that already. they had said that essentially offered some vague language that donald trump supports preserving life, but also that he believes it should be left to the states to decide how to respond to this issue. of course. and then you hear donald trump say will be making a statement on this next week but luck to take a step back donald trump has struggled with this issue. not only throughout the entire campaign, but ever since really roe versus wade was overturned and he's been asked about his responsibility for that. he's tried to have it both ways, really, and he's to some people, he's saying, look, i'm the one who's stack the supreme court with justices who helped to get this done. but then to others both in public and in private, he saying this issue is a political loser for republicans, especially in a general election. however, in
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recent weeks, i know that he has been receiving increased pressure from his outside allies, people like kellyanne conway, his former aide, less senator lindsey graham. people from antiabortion groups, all pressuring him to clarify his position on this. and it's something that his team, who really had been wanting him to remain vague on our starting to acknowledge that luck he's going to have the do this at some point. i do want to just read you a quick quote from one of his top advisers who told me essentially what i'm laying out here. he said, quote, the democrats are making a big point of making abortion. what they're going to go after us on. it's clear at some point he would need to spell out exactly where he stood on the issue. it's either do it now or later. i think from a pr standpoint, it's probably better to do it now. and also i can tell you, dana, that for weeks now, donald trump's team has policy team, i should say, have been preparing some policy language on this. however, it's still unclear exactly what he's going to do because again, he's been kind of waffling between floating a 15
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or 16 week ban on abortion, but also saying it should be up to the state. so we'll see how that plays out behind the scenes over the next few days. >> such great reporting. thank you so much for giving us a snippet of it. certainly seemed more on cnn.com. let's talk about this here. >> one of the >> lessons that i heard many republicans, i'm sure you all have heard this as well, that they got from the 2022 midterms when they got their clocks cleaned. in many, many places because of abortion, was that their candidates had their heads in this and too much that they need to stand up and say, this is what i'm four. is that going to happen here? is that what is being debated >> i mean, that's certainly not what the top of the ticket is doing right now, but i do think he's a little bit on his own there because when you go to congress and republicans have, most republicans have taken a position on abortion. but there are not only 2022, there are still warnings there. there's evidence that they didn't take it seriously. look at glenn
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youngkin, look what happened to virginia he went all in what was on the 15 week ban and that backfired on him. so they can't not talk about it. but they certainly haven't found a way to talk about it. they're trying to make 15 weeks sound like the reasonable solution to this. and so far you a lot of people national yes. okay >> elena sort of mentioned the fact that >> trump has been everywhere. >> everywhere. thank you for that word >> let's look at some examples of that >> 54 years they were trying to get roe v. wade terminated, and i did the greatest progress for a pro-life is now being made in the states where everyone wanted to be bringing it back to the stage is a less important issue. now i happen to be for the exceptions like ronald reagan with the life of the mother rape, incest, you have to have the three exceptions because it's just now there are a few places
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where you don't, without the accent it is very difficult to win elections. you have to follow your heart the same time. we have to win elections just like that last clip was the most candid when he has to make he has to make a decision, but he also has to win an election. he knows that this is going to well, that's donald trump's saying to the israelis you have bad pr. this is he doesn't want to have bad pr. he wants to win and he's looking at the elections. who's seeing what a potent issue this is for democrats. and on the one hand, it's kinda like the vaccine he used to take credit for the vaccine just like he's taking credit for the supreme court. but now he doesn't talk about the vaccine because a lot of his supporters were opposed to it. and so now he doesn't know how to talk about abortion because a lot of his supporters are very pro life and want the most stringent restrictions. and
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that is not where he is in his, in his heart and his history, he was he was pro-choice. so we're going to have to wait and see what he says. and i'm not going to take any bets about where he comes down, but i bet they're doing some polling. >> you think? yeah. >> now, let's look at a map that helps guide where this is going to be a very big issue. well, first of all, we have, you see the states that where abortion is totally band, that's in the orange color, the mustard color. there's a six two 18 weak limit. those are important data points. the other are the states that where you don't see any of the names of the states or the abbreviations of this dates because it's got a very liberal or very liberal laws on it. if the president does decide that he supports a nationwide ban that could potentially hurt him in some of those states and some of them michigan, wisconsin are the
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swing is if swing states absolutely. and democrats have one special election after special election mostly on this issue. so it is an issue that's helping them. i know the biden campaign sees that as their sort of ace in the hole for all or other liabilities, political liabilities on the campaign because voters are so energized by this issue. and i think even though trump and a lot of republicans say we support exceptions and the case of incest, rape and life of the mother. i think what we've seen in these states that have implemented bands are partial bands is that it's not that simple because doctors are at risk of being prosecuted, are going to jail if they conduct abortions, even when those cases arise, there's a very high burden of proof and we've heard now of just one devastating case after another, where a woman is not able to get an abortion even in one of those cases he says, because of the just a very murky legal minefield, when you put these bans in place. >> well, and i think if you're looking at that map, there's one gray state there that's bring it back but that i'd just like to point out as and if you're in the trump campaign,
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you're looking at and that's ohio hi, it was what do you know anything about cleveland know but what but you know, what he was red-state for all intents and purposes now used to be purple. now it's pretty darn red and they had about initiative and that was codified abortion rights. so that's that's what they're looking at. there's one in florida, there's one in arizona now that our very, very good point. don't go too far. coming up the incredibly static presidential election, the national polls have been basically tied for months. so which issues? good tip the balance and later, here's a potential nightmare scenario for you to to two in the electoral college, a tie it could very well happen if donald trump can convince nebraska lawmakers to change their election laws next stop
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save up to 15% on the latest flooring styles visit ll flooring.com. >> hi, melanie zanona on capitol hill it, >> is the it's all hands on deck or in this case the campaign trail for the biden administration. today's six administration officials, including the vice president, are fanning out across the country to tout how biden's signature infrastructure law by partisan bill that passed will help fund projects in different communities. it's part of a larger effort for the president to convince voters that his legislative achievements have actually earned him a second term in office the question is, will voters by it joining me now to get into that in much more or republican pollster,
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brenda gianni and democratic pollster terrence would vary. thank you so much. it's great to see both of you. let's start with that question. we have talked before and with you and just sort of nonstop since the infrastructure bill became law, a couple of years ago, about the question of whether and when voters are going to actually see and feel what he got done at home, is that happening? are you seeing in your data >> well, an infrastructure does represent a unique opportunity. it's not a sexy issue, but it is a bipartisan issue is they multifaceted multicultural issue that reaches across demographics. and geographics unlike many issues we have seen shift of one or two points because people are kinda hard and in their positions infrastructures have the ability to ship by more than ten points, increasing support for joe biden, i think that's because one, it does not have the hyper-partisanship baggage, but also because it does have
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the because when when you talk about it in terms of what we saw as the three e's on the environmental impacts as the biggest investment to combat climate change in the world's history, not just the nation's history, but also the economic impacts, its ability to create infrastructure jobs right now and create competitive. >> that's the argument. >> that's right. >> the question is whether it has penetrating when i think i would say is penetrated, it a minor level, i have to give it to the vitamin administration as terrence and i both know i'm campaigns, the hardest >> thing to do is to teach, to tell somebody something we believe is true, is not true. that's what they were trying to do with bidenomics. they were going out there fani round thing to me is really good. and i think it's publican. we were all very excited about that. we said keep trying with that. that message is going to fail. so i think they were very smart to pivot to infrastructure and we saw after the state of the union, we saw a site slight blip in the polls for biden.
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and i think nobody watches this speech. i think it was him getting out there and talking to real americans his roadshow. so i think i think this is going to help us. so you say that there was a slight flip. >> i >> think the best thing that we have going here is a cnn are great political team. they do a poll and polls. >> and if >> you look at just starting in january through the end of last month, last week really yes. there was a slight uptick, for joe biden. if you go back to its by one percentage point back to january but it's been relatively steady. what are you seeing? that this does not actually illustrate? >> so we started his strategy specifically to understand the opinions of voters under represented misrepresented public polling. and what we find in a lot of these public poses that black voters are being both underrepresented and misrepresented that when you look at some of these poles with a sample size of one or 200 black folks. and then if
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you have ten or 20 of them that are weird and given and given posters weird answers, then you have ten or 20% of noise in that poll. and so larger sample size allows us to mute some of that noise. and so >> doing some of that polling >> with absolutely so as opposed to saying 20% of black support for donald trump were seeing closer to nine to 12% black support for donald trump. so there is an increase tears doing better amongst black voters trump is doing better amongst black voters, but not ten or 20 points better than we've been seeing in some of the public polling. >> what are you seeing in side? some of these big questions of sort of the horse race question that maybe are getting masked in other ways. >> a lot of it to your point, you're correct. it's stagnant. it really started joe biden had a pretty small honeymoon about six months in with them withdrawal from anna scan, afghanistan, he started losing younger voters. he started losing hispanics, he started losing some black men and it really has just been a downhill effect from there. >> right now, the only movement
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>> we see is really joe biden's biggest challenge. he's building his coalition again, he's bringing democrats back home. i think you can do it. i mean, the easiest thing to do is get a democrat to vote for a democrat and republican to vote for republican. >> but >> he has not done that yet. he does not his base intact, so he's working and we're seeing the numbers start to move until that point. >> we've seen a job. donald trump has consolidated in 97% of his coalition, 97% of voters there previously voted for trump so they're going to vote for him again. joe biden is only consolidated at 5%. i taste coalition and so i think that represents two things. one is a huge opportunity to get democrats to vote for a democrat. but it also represents where we see this softness and his base with voters of color and young voters and continuing to deliver a message. >> it's about motivating which is the base and persuading which is the people who are not really i think it's bigger problem is motivating and to your point, i would say all these young voters maybe skeptical democrats that voted for joe biden in 2020. he was
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never meant to be a two-term president he was meant to stop the chaos, the circus of the trump white house to not have the nonstop media cycle that was, that was exhausting for everybody. >> so i >> think they're just not democrats, just starting that i should be speaking for them. >> but >> they just aren't excited about voting for him again, what the chaos is back, you know, and i think that as this campaign and as the cycle continues to materialize as a choice between >> returning to that chaos are continuing the progress. i do think joe biden will continue to seeing that in the data that you're getting. i do think he'll continue to consolidate that coalition. all right? >> great to have you both on. please come back. appreciate it up next. donald trump and nebraska republicans want to change how that state awards electoral votes there is a scenario that is very much in the realm of possibility that could make what happens in the cornhuskers stage decide the entire presidential election will explain after a break
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>> making the switch to battery with one of the best decisions that we made a company >> for you. >> do for work right now, get a free battery with the purchase of select professional steel tools. >> real still find yours >> closed captioning brought to you by mesobook.com if you or a loved one have mesothelial not we'll send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and we'll come to you >> 808 to one 4,000 breaking news, the atlanta judge, who was dealing with donald trump's bid >> to get the georgia election case dismissed. he said that donald trump can potentially deal with the free speech issue. let's talk more about that. let's cnn, sara murray, sara, dana, that's right. we heard these extensive >> arguments last week from trump attorney steve seyed out and georgia essentially arguing that the indictment in georgia should be dismissed because
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trump was merely engaging in political speech that was protected under the first amendment. while the judge in georgia today, scott mcafee said he is not going to dismiss the indictment against donald trump. and a number of his co-defendants, essentially saying that this argument falls short. now in many ways, this is not a surprise. we have seen other co-defendants in this case in georgia, georgia tried to make these first amendment arguments. scott mcafee, the judge, also rejected them in the case of the other defendants, we've even seen in these arguments made by trump in the federal case, and we saw a federal judge, tanya tanya chutkan, consider these first amendment arguments and reject them there. so in many ways, this was not the motion that the trump team was really hanging there add-on was really hoping would lead to the end of the indictment. so the case continues against trump in georgia, dana yeah. headline is case not dismissed. right. thank you so much there. i appreciate that. now, imagine this a 2609 to 2609 tie in the electoral college that could become much more likely if
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nebraska changes how it awards electoral votes. this week, donald trump and his allies are pressuring state lawmakers to do just that right now, it is one of two states that awards some of its electoral votes by congressional district. the other is the state of maine switching to a winner take all system could strip biden of an electoral vote that he won in 2020. and this election could very well calmed down to that single electoral college votes. cnn's daniel strauss is digging into this daniel what do you, london. >> just that this is a big hurdle for advocates of changing the way nebraska allocate delegates are trying to overcome. and part of it is just the very fact that this is how they've done it in nebraska for awhile now, it's very apparent to democrats that there is a scenario where the selection is super close and comes down to how nebraska allocates votes. and they obviously don't want to give an advantage to donald trump.
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that would swing the election against them at the same time though the spill is just running into all kinds of legislative and very technical hurdles, including that it wasn't blessed with a priority label that in the nebraska legislature is acquired at this point in their cycle for moving a bill forward look down, though this is, this is really important because democrats and republicans have been saying throughout the cycle this can be a very close election. it really could come down to just a few electoral votes, a few thousand votes in states that other why's really aren't, haven't been attended to by either the big campaigns. >> let's give our viewers a scenario here that is, again, not out of the realm of possibility at all if joe biden wins, that nebraska vote that one electoral vote. and he wins back again, wins the so-called blue wall, michigan wisconsin,
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pennsylvania. you have to 72 to 68, so he wins the presidency. now, let's see this scenario where that nebraska law is changed 2609 to 2609, an electoral college tie rights which goes to a whole different arena and it puts us into a morass that we don't usually experience in electoral imc campaign politics that's why and this is entirely possible. we've seen in the past few election cycles at the blue wall is reachable and that states that are usually republican leaning can be flipped. arizona and georgia so it really could come down to a few electoral votes. and it could come down to one congressional district in nebraska >> absolute absolutely fascinating. and we are gonna be watching to see what >> the nebraska legislature does. thanks so much for bringing this to us appreciate it
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>> and ahead, riddle me this. what do the golden girls and rob? >> f. kennedy jr. have in common with us >> thank you for >> now. back >> with empires low price guarantee, you'll get quality garbage, hard would add lamina it out of great bryce will be any competitor they've offered guarantee schedule. now >> 300 today. >> yeah. >> you're worst nightmare, your car broke down. now you're worried if it's going to cost you a fortune and repair bills unless you already called car, she'll the logit number one, auto protection company in the country. when you're protected with a plan through car, she'll the process is smooth, like guise and done in as little as three steps one first the tow truck takes your car to the shop. the cost of jhoan covered
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court call one now for your free legal we'll consultation? again, that's 1807123800. >> get your viewing glasses ready. it gets across america live monday at one >> thank you for being a friend. the democratic national committee is taking a sarcastic swipe at independent candidate robert f. kennedy jr. highlighting what they say is his lack of transparency about his campaign. donors. take a look >> down. >> the panel is back. i got so excited. so for clamped about the idea of listening to the
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golden dawn, and i lost my train of thought >> what do you all think of? this? is this something that i mean, obviously we're playing and we're talking about it. it's clever but it does go to the notion of a core argument that the dnc and the biden campaign has, which is who's >> funding this guy and isn't it just friends of donald trump, right? >> well, it's this person. they're referring to is i think tim mellon, who's given gobs of money to both rfk and to trump. and i think the point is that this is a guy who wants to hurt joe biden and look at who he's giving money to and he's not the only one you know, i think that's that's exactly the point that they're trying to make. that this is another effort by republicans to hurt biden and the campaign. this is not a candidate to be taken seriously, but i have seen some reporting that there is concern among republicans that rfk could hurt trump as
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well with his antiviral vaccine positions, some of his libertarian position. so i think it's still a little bit unclear who he's more of a spoiler for, but that's obviously not the point. the dnc's trying to make, but i think what there but i think what this does show while they're not considering a serious candidate, they are taking him as a serious threat. it's worth just why you have outside a supportive group of biden that is taking on rfk junior and they know the margins in some of these states are going to be very narrow. the trump campaign knows it to, you, haven't seen them openly spending money to go after rfk junior. but if it starts looking like he's going to cut into whatever numbers they have. i would be surprised that they're not for bias and >> the argument that he is making and what he's trying to tap into is dissatisfaction with both of the options that people have on the democratic and republican side, listen to a little bit of what rfk junior told erin burnett this week on
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that issue? >> and if you've vote for president trump, are present, they pose had their chance you're going to get more of the same, if any, if somebody needs if somebody actually wants to change once that actually alter those issues, they're going to vote for me i mean, i'm guessing that there are. i mean, when i'm guessing, i know we know from polls that there is a bigger segment than either campaign wants. that's very much open to that argument >> right? i think you're right, but i also think that right now what you're seeing democrats do and to a lesser extent, republicans is trying to define him. i think because right now, very much the kennedy name is what he is trading on and knowing him as an individual it's something that i know that that biden's allies are trying to push out there, you know, just the fact that he's there and you have these voters that are those so-called double-haters is dangerous.
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it's just dangerous because people can decide at the last minute, you know what? i'll just i'll just throw it away and vote for robert kennedy jr. no matter what we're going to have to leave it there. thank you so much. thank you for being a friend thank you for joining inside politics, cnn news central starts after the break, before we go a quick reminder our live coverage of the eclipse starts monday at 1:00 p.m. eastern, right here on cnn or stream it on max >> vital window seem to be a typical choice here in the local area. some companies, even advertise high-quality vinyl and romer here before you invest in vinyl windows, listened to what michael smith of renewal by anderson has to say with our temperature swings, vinyl tends to warp, which causes condensation between the pains and drafts and most final windows just
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