i'm tom. noom helped him use psychology to lose weight. the mindful aspect made me feel more conscious about what i was eating and why i was eating it. it's actually working. lose weight and make it last with noom weight. john berman in here for anderson. this is special live coverage by the international criminal court to issue arrest warrants for war crime charges for president vladimir putin and his deputy who runs russia's program of taking children from ukraine. thousands of them to russia for indoctrination and in some cases adoption by russian families. today, cnn got this exclusive interview with karine kohn, the icc's chief prosecutor.

he joins us as well as ivan watson from ukraine. this is a story that he and 360 have been reporting on extensively. we start things off with carissa ward and her interview. >> reporter: john, he was keen to tell us that this is really just the first step in what promises to be a long journey. the arrest warrants that were given out today for president putin and also the russian height commissioner for children, these are just the first two, essentially. there may be more coming. there may be other areas that they will be exploring. there is no shortage of alleged war crimes that have taken place. the prosecutor's office that we hear from the icc have made multiple trips to ukraine, but they were keen really to stress the importance of this historic day. take a look.

there are many different war crimes for potential war crimes that we have seen playing out in ukraine, whether it is the bombing of the theater in mariupol where people were sheltering, civilians were sheltering, whether it is the atrocities of butcha. why did you decide to go on this line of prosecution first? >> i was at the church and butcha about a year ago, just less than a year ago. it is a crime scene. there are many terrible allegations that have been seen and we are analyzing them and reviewing them. but before might prosecutor, before i started in june of 2021, i also identified the war crimes against children and investigated and went and reported. when you look at the factual matrix of evidence that we received, it was only right and

appropriate to focus on the most vulnerable parts of society, which is our children. >> reporter: we understand that ms. lavilliva is a russian commissioner for children. how did you take are the next steps of pushing for prosecution of president putin himself and how unusual is that? >> i started repeatedly over the last year. we investigate incriminating and exonerating evidence equally. we want to find the truth. we are statutorily required to get to the truth. we, as i said, started looking at a range of a wide spectrum of allegations but the evidence was quite clear. what has been said publicly from those individuals, what has become available from publicly available sources and the result of our direct investigations and corporation

with other states in ukraine. these crimes appear to have been committed. and one follows the evidence. the simple reality is that these crimes have not been hit in. any head of state of the five permanent members of the security council has had a warrant of arrest issued by independent and impartial judges. it should not give us any celebration. it is a matter of real regret that we have had to do this. the evidence compelled us to move in this manner. >> reporter: it is a historic moment, certainly. but will we ever see president putin in the dock? >> the president of the court made it very clear. lien partially without any political motivations or agendas. apply the law to facts that have been verified and independently collected. and rigorously analyzed. now, it is for others to decide whether or not arrest opportunities are available and if we should enforce them.

the first of many thought it was impossible that powerful leaders like former president loss of itch and former president taylor and of rwanda and cambodia. the list goes on. that they would ever be subjected to the rule of law, and yet they were. some of them are in custody. >> carissa, no expectation obviously that vladimir putin would surrender or be arrested. did the icc give you a sense of how it intends to proceed legally? >> reporter: that is the question really, john. because the icc cannot have a trial of someone in abstention. but what they can do according to prosecutor hahn, and, again, this has not been done historically but there is legal precedent for it, is what they

call a confirmation hearing in absence. and that would essentially allow for the evidence to be preserved in a judicial setting in a timely way, paving the way for some potential future trial. what they have seen traditionally, the icc, is that very rarely do people charged with war crimes actually come to face justice until those wars have reached an end, and whichever side is victorious gets to choose who ends up facing trial at the icc. what they want to do, at least with this possibility of the confirmation hearing, is ensure that that evidence is put out there in a timely manner. that victims of these alleged atrocities are still able to have their day in court, even if it might be quite some time before you would potentially see president vladimir putin appearing on trial, though, i think for the moment, that does

seem like a very distant prospect, john. >> ivan, what has the reaction been from the ukrainian government to these arrest warrants? >> john, the ukrainian government has been applauding this decision. the arrest warrant issued by the international arrest court. according to government statistics, they said that some 16,226 ukrainian children, the government believes, have been taken and deported to russia since the start of the russian invasion a bit more than a year ago. take a listen to what the ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy had to say about what is called a historic decision. >> translator: hiding children in russia, dispersing them to

diverse regions, all this is obvious russian state policy, state decisions, and state evil, which begins with the first official of the state. >> so, you know, another top ukraine official has just called this a first step. meanwhile, the top prosecutor in the country says he hopes this will make other world leaders think twice about, in the future, shaking hands with vladimir putin are sitting down at the negotiating table with them, now that he has effectively become an effective war criminal. while this icc move is important, it is also important to understand that the ukrainian judicial system that police here on the ground and investigators and prosecutors, that they are also, separately, actively gathering evidence for their own cases to accuse russian military commanders and individual russian soldiers of alleged war crimes, that after

every type of rocket strike or you already tillery strike on ukrainian cities or towns after every death of a civilian, you have police coming in later, if it is at all safe in an area, gathering evidence, and putting their own cases together to try to prosecute russian military units. we are probably going to see more of this coming from just the ukrainian judicial system in the months and years ahead. >> so, matthew, the kremlin has called these warrants outrageous, but do they actually deny what the warrants accuse? >> reporter: not at all. they say it is outrageous and unacceptable that these indictments have been made. but they are actually quite boastful of the fact that ukrainian leadership calls these deportations taking place because they cast it inside of russia as a humanitarian act. what they regard it as is russia rescuing orphans who have essentially been abandoned

inside the war zone and embracing them into the bosom of mother russia, as it were. and actually talking quite a lot on russian television in the past few days and weeks about how some of them have been adopted. maria lvova-belova has been said to have adopted a 15-year- old from the city of mariupol. they also speak of how they have been educated. when they sing that ukrainian national anthem when they were first taken into russian custody, and they do not do that anymore, and she says they speak much more positively about russia. this is how russia and its officials described these alleged crimes that president putin has been indicted for. and, all this, remember, as these children, thousands of them, have parents that are still alive inside ukraine and are desperately trying to get their loved ones back.

>> you know, clarissa, one of the most interesting parts of your conversation with the icc was about the timing. these are still going on. how unusual is that? >> reporter: it is highly unusual, and it was interesting to hear that green comet was still pedestrian. we need to accelerate and have a sense that the wheels of justice turn in a timely manner. as opposed to traditionally where we might be talking about years after the conflict has ended, within a month of the russian invasion, khan and his team are already beginning their investigations. just over a year after the war began, you have the first two arrest warrants being issued. and the idea is this will continue of pace now.

you will see more arrest warrants, potentially. more investigations as all the different allegations that have been made are researched. now, obviously, this takes a huge amount of resources, john. there is no shortage of war crimes taking place in ukraine. in fact, to use khan's own words, he says ukraine is basically a crime scene. there is an enormous amount of work that needs to be done to go to try to verify and to build up solid cases, in this instance and in future investigations taking place. >> clarissa ward, we will have more coming up. and thanks to both of you. next, more on the woman we have been talking about and the program she runs bringing ukrainian children to russia and erasing their ukrainian identity. later, my conversation with elaine mcmanus, who 360 viewers got to know.

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the woman heading up and even boasting about an operation that is said to be violating the rights of ukrainian children. more from cnn's melissa bell. >> reporter: she claims to be the savior of ukrainian children. devout and devoted, she says to welcoming orphans or abandoned children of war to the motherland. but this is no humanitarian adoption program. russia's children's rights commissioner is in fact in charge of something far more sinister. according to american and european governments and to a report by yale university, thousands of children have been forcibly deported to russia. all the russia denies doing this against their will, some have even been taken thousands of miles and several time zones away from ukraine. >> maria lvova-belova is basically the point person at the kremlin level for this entire program.

>> reporter: so these children are essentially being held hostage? >> yes. >> reporter: the person herself in charge is a 38-year- old mother of at least 10, including five adopted children, and her work takes her all the way into the occupied territories. >> translator: this time, we came to mariupol itself. we will do everything for the children and teenagers who are here. >> reporter: from the television channel to russian propaganda videos, the deportation is no secret, yet the children are totally beyond the reach of their families or ukrainian authorities. >> some of those children are really small. we see seven, six months. four years. those children just do not remember where are they from, who are their parents. >> reporter: and once across the border, there is no

contact anyway. summer adopted by russian families. others are taken to what are billed as summer camps, in fact we education centers aimed at turning ukrainian children into russian citizens. >> translator: unfortunately, we see that the children were brought up in a completely different culture, and they did not watch the same films our children watched. they did not study history as our children did. >> reporter: but ukrainian lawyers fighting for the return of the children fear that those already adopted may be lost for good. >> during this process of adoption, purge can change all. names. date of birth. in fact, some children are transferred to russia without documents. >> reporter: one already adopted as a young boy from mariupol. should at first, she says he sang the ukrainian national anthem. now, he is a good boy. this is what she told vladimir

putin, himself. >> translator: did you adopt the child from mariupol, yourself? >> translator: yes. thanks you, 15 years old. now, i know what it means to be a mother of a child from donbas. it is difficult, but we definitely love each other. >> joining us now is nathaniel rayman. he is executive director of yale university's humanitarian research lab. you have worked on this project for a long time. your report was responsible for shining a light on so much of what has been going on in ukraine. what does this moment mean for you? >> john, on one hand, i am still in shock by the announcement of the indictments by the icc. it is a critical first step, only a first step towards justice for the people of ukraine. on the other hand, i am thinking about the parents,

tonight, of the children who have yet to come home, and some may not come home. on one hand, i feel hope because of today's indictment. on the other hand, i feel the urgency of trying to get these kids back. >> you mentioned you are sort of in shock. did you have any idea this was coming? >> all i knew was what i read in the new york times a few days ago. and, at that point, we thought it could happen. this morning, i was walking my dogs, and my phone went dessert. and, suddenly, it had happened. since that point, it has really been an effort to get our heads around the fact that what we have been working on is now the subject of an icc indictment. >> so maria lvova-belova who we saw in that piece there, she called the icc warrant against her great. who is this woman in your mind? >> maria lvova-belova is basically the center of the command and control of a

synchronized, coordinated whole of government operation that has two major parts to it. one is the re-education camps you mentioned. the others forced adoption. you have to understand that this network -- and it is a network of camps -- stretches 3500 miles from the black sea to the pacific. it involves more than 43 facilities. we think that number is significantly higher. >> she sounded proud two days. do you think this historic moment will do anything to deter her or slow her down? >> every moment that russians have faced the possibility of accountability for this program, they have played it down. there is another clipper they talk about a military training facility for 14-17-year-old boys in chechnya. they say the pilot program has been a success. was expanded by 2000 russian-

ukrainian boys. the point is, they are probably going to at every turn show that they are undeterred, but, today, the international community showed that we are also undeterred. >> what you want to see happen to vladimir putin and maria lvova-belova? >> one-word. handcuffs. >> what you think the future is for those ukrainian children who are already in russia? >> i have worked on efforts to identify through dna testing children in guatemala who were separated from their parents during civil wars in the '80s. that process took decades. i do not want to see that here. but we are as medical emergency servants called the golden hour. if we do not get them back now, we are going to be talking about dna identification and

processes that will take decades. we have to act now because time is ticking. >> this type of human rights work that you do can be thankless. you can get no results for years on certain things. years. >> like ted williams said about baseball. you fail 75% of the time. >> so this is history in your point of mind? >> this is the point where the dog caught the postal truck. this usually does not happen. the fact is, we have to take this moment which validates the anguish of the people of ukraine and those parents and turn it into, what is next. >> you have got to make account. nathaniel rayman, thank you for the work that you do and for being with us here tonight. coming up, more from clarissa ward's interview with icc prosecutor khan. (boy) you're not gonna believe this girl... (girl) mom! dad! mom, dad, have you seen thisis? (boy) ...i did it.

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we continue our look at the historic arrest warrant handed down by the international criminal court handed down to vladimir putin and a top russian official. now, more of clarissa ward's conversation with icc's korean khan. as well as what charges may be coming next. >> reporter: under the statute, the forced deportation of children is also listed as a component of genocide, potentially. now, the arrest warrants today are for war crimes. i wonder, how did you decide

whether to pursue war crimes versus crimes against humanity, versus genocide, for example. >> yeah. it is still an early stage of investigations. we are continuing to look at all the allegations that we have received and we are uncovering, and we will make the necessary applications to the judges if and when that evidence fulfills those requirements. the fact that today the judges of the international criminal court have sought it to their responsibility of the two wars that have been mentioned does not mean that as it. we will keep on going to the best of our ability to ensure that the many other crimes and allegations that seem to have been committed are uncovered. >> reporter: so you would say essentially this is just the first step and there are multiple other investigations

into potential war crimes in ukraine that your office will be looking into? >> yes. i think it is very clear that it is an ongoing battle. war is not illegal, but the war had started constraints. it is not a free license to commit every type of atrocity. you cannot rape. you cannot attack civilian objects. you cannot attack people who have laid down their arms. these are to be understood by all sides. >> reporter: you have obviously worked in international law for a long time. you spent quite some time on the ground in ukraine. how-tos ukraine compare -- not that one can make these kinds of comparisons -- what are you struck by what you see in ukraine by the levels of violence or potential war crimes? >> you know, you are quite right. i have had the privilege of seeing victims and survivors in so many parts of the world. and i do not have a lead, of

course. but what we see in parts of ukraine has been seen by different people of different cultures and different languages. i was also leading the team investigating crimes in the balkans. i was a junior prosecutor many decades ago in the tribunal in cambodia. you know very well about the banality of evil, and you also know about the kind of crimes that have afflicted humanity since the holocaust. and, unfortunately, despite the promises of never again and the publicity of understanding the war is out there, there is still this very prevalent proclivity of people with power to believe that they can subject weaker people to that

power and do what they want. >> back with us now, clarissa ward. also joining us, gary caperol. he is also the author of "winter is coming : why vladimir putin and the enemies of the free world must be stopped." what is your reaction to these arrest warrants today? >> it is a very important first step. because this war and the crimes committed by russian troops on ukrainian soil is quite unique. we have seen other genocides before, but we learned of them afterwards. holocaust. rwanda. we did not see them alive. we had to accumulate evidence and then recognize the horrors of those crimes. these crimes are committed virtually online. i think that what has happened today is a very strong message for russians and the russian elite.

there is no way back. no one is going to close their eyes and sort of turn a blind eye on these crimes. and, somehow, i think putin probably was shocked. now, he has been charged with kidnapping. it is like al capone being charged with tax evasion. they cannot actually get him on tax evasion. and is still being mentioned but putin right about this crime. kidnapping kids on television. actually, they recorded it. you do not even need to record it because putin has a personal confession about a problem he authorized. and the subordinate so-called issue on children's rights has been executing program that was part of the long-term strategy of eradicating ukrainians as a nation. it is not me saying it.

putin has said it many times. and it has been repeated by russian propaganda. no matter what desantis talked about. this is a genocidal war that has been planned for a long time. >> stealing children. bragging about stealing children. we just played some of that before. that is what he is charged with. but as you here in clarissa's piece, there may be other charges. do expect that there will be? >> absolutely. this is the first one because we could see him on television speaking about it. other charges, you have to charge it directly to. every prosecutor could dream about personal confession recorded by major tv stations. but i hope it is just as they have been staying. first step. crimes are endless there. it is genocide. and, actually, europe is ahead of america. part of this problem is not just convicting these criminals and issuing warrants as a first step, but also to remove state

immunity from russian funds. europe is working aggressively to confiscate hundreds of billions of dollars in frozen funds to pay ukraine for construction. it does not have to be paid by american tax players or german taxpayers. it could be transferred to ukraine. >> so, clarissa, we talked about the idea of other possible charges. any idea of what other evidence they are collecting at this point to try to make those other charges? >> reporter: i think, perhaps, understandably, john, they are not giving any details about ongoing investigations. but what karine khan did say is that ukraine is a crime scene right now. whether it is a massacre of butcha are some of the other atrocities we have seen a mariupol , where civilians

taking shelter in a theater were killed by hundreds from airstrikes. were a maternity hospital was also bombed. there are multiple avenues they can pursue. obviously, there is also the constraint of time and resources. because what i do think prosecutor hahn feels very strongly about is getting it right. if you're going to build the case, it has got to be rock solid, ironclad. you just heard him elucidating why it was important to start with is forced deportation of ukrainian children. because this was done vocally by the russian state, by vladimir putin in conjunction, of course, with ms. lvova- belova. it makes sense as a starting point. but there are other

investigations and inquiries they are looking into. the hope is that this is just the building of momentum and we will see more like this to come. >> so, gary, you tweeted today i do not care if putin leaves his country in chains or in a box, but he must be culpable for his crimes. the facts will come out. you think at this point the russians will learn something from this? >> eventually, yes. but, before this moment comes, ukraine must win the war. as i have been saying for a long time, we believe that victory for ukraine is the beginning of the duration of russia from putin's passes in. full liberation of the country, including crimea. preparations being paid. and war crimes tribunal. those are three key components for russia to have a historic chance to leave behind empire. not only imperial allusions and

imperial pass. mostly criminal pass. and to try to build a new state, a nationstate. some kind of loose confederation of many russian regions that would like to have a fresh start. >> gary, we do appreciate your time. and, clarissa ward, thank you for reporting. next, ukrainian mother of three now living here in the united states. her thoughts on the arrest warrant. chairs, gotta go... okay! i'm thinking couches... or loveseats?

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today, a prosecutor made history. sadly though, the larger story has already been written month after month in tears. days after the russians invaded ukraine, anderson spoke many times to our next guest, alayna, along with her husband and children. they were living peacefully in the capital, kyiv, when the missiles landed there. and she has given us a grounds eye view of the critical stage and the ukrainian counter assault. is february 20th of last year when she said this about her hope that vladimir putin would one day face justice. >> you see, he just decided to send his troops and airplanes and kill my people simply because he wanted it.

this has to be punished. for this, putin has to be imprisoned. to take him to international court, because what he has done is an international serious an awful crime. because thousands of people already died. they are innocent victims. >> we are glad that alayna can s who now lives in the united states under the ukraine program could once again join us for this historic day. thank you so much for joining us. you have been calling for vladimir putin to be punished and held accountable for the atrocities that happen in your country since the very beginning of the invasion. what are you feeling now after this announcement from the icc? >> i feel it is better later than never, so i welcome the decision. i also know the list of the crimes that putin has committed is much longer than we see. killed civilians.

injured civilians. raped women and children. so the list is very long. now, i am looking forward for more decisions. for more tough decisions. not only is there no alternative, you know, to have putin held accountable and to have him in the international criminal court. >> so when anderson visited you in kyiv last year, there was this moment, this incredible moment, when your daughter listed places in ukraine were atrocities have taken place. i want to listen to that. >> what they have done in -- >> in mariupol. >> it is awful, and now i am ready to fight. >> the children know by heart the names of places that atrocities have been committed.

>> so as we said, it is really something that your daughter knew the names of these places, even though these icc charges were not related to those atrocities. what do you think that this historic moment represents for the people in ukraine? >> i think that you see even every child knows the evidence is on the surface. you cannot pretend you are blind and do not see them. you know? even a child could tell you the names. unfortunately, since then, a lot more places were destroyed. a lot more crimes happened. and, unfortunately, putin, he does not care about this decision. i mean, i welcome this decision, but this decision does not stop putin right now. unfortunately, as we are talking right now, putin continues destroying ukraine and killing people in ukraine. >> so what more needs to happen in your eyes to hold putin

accountable? >> he needs to be arrested. what needs to be done to a terrorist who has committed crimes? to any criminal who commits crimes. i mean, what if your neighbor starts destroying your home, telling your people, raping your children, and then the police tell you, this guy has very big guns, so we cannot arrest him. this is not an option. we cannot normalize any crime. and a crime of this huge level cannot be normalized at all, because, you know, the world is watching and we have other countries who are watching right now. they violated all international agreements. so what? he still can go forward. and only force can stop him. so ukraine needs more weapons. enough weapons to stop. i am not saying america and

other countries have given little. no. it is a lot. unfortunately, it is not enough. not because you're not helping ukraine much, but because putin is more aggressive. he is insane. that is an insane tyrant. >> just lastly, you and your family are all in the united states staying with a host family. we spoke with you a few weeks ago around the one-year anniversary of the invasion. how are you all doing? >> we are doing really great, apart from the feeling of guilt that we are alive. but i think every ukrainian has the skill. we are on a very amazing travel. revisited the everglades, her dream destination. when she was in the basement, she said she wants to see the place with the crocodile. we also visited the space center.

and my children touched a piece of the moon. i learned a amazing piece of america. in the words of kennedy, he said, when we go to the moon, we choose to go to the moon. we do things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. and this is the real america. and america is a great country. i am very grateful for american people who are helping us. you know, these people that we visited, they have democrats and republicans. but it does not matter when we talk about humanity, about freedom, about these values but unite all of us. people of different political views in america and ukraine and in other countries. we just have to be united and be strong, and we have to be brave like ukraine. brave like my daughter who wanted to become a crocodile and eat putin. putin had to be punished. russia is behaving like a terrorist and it will not stop behaving like a terrorist until it is stopped by force.

>> we are lucky to have you here, if only temporarily. i hope you can get back to your country soon. while i understand your feelings of guilt, this was done to you. we think you very, very much. >> thank you. it is always an honor. >> up next, more on the question that matter so much to alayna and so many others. namely, whether putin will in fact ever face trial. we will look at the international court and how it has brought other bad actors to justice. ♪ helping you discscover untapped possibilities and relentlessly working with you to make them real. ♪ because grit and vision working in lockstep ♪ puts you on the path to your full potential. ♪

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what will you do? will you make something better? create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. untouchable. above the law. pretty remarkable to think someone like vladimir putin, the leader of a global nuclear power, would ever end up in international custody and go on trial for war crimes. but there have been some cases in history, where those seemingly invincible have been held to account. matthew chance has more. >> reporter: the suspected crime of overseeing the abduction of ukrainian children has earned vladimir putin and maria -- a place in a rogues gallery of alleged war criminals. the icc establishing the hague

in 2002, has a checkered record of bringing those accused of wrong doing to justice. >> mr. thomas is guilty of crimes of enlisting children. >> reporter: the cause taking ten years to get its first conviction. thomas la banga of the democratic republic of congo sentenced for his role in recruiting child soldiers. focused on african states, taunting criticism of disproportionality. moammar gaddafi was charged with crimes against humanity in 2011. >> we sentence to those who commit crimes in libya or elsewhere with power, the world will not -- >> he was brutally killed by a

libyan mob before he could be brought to justice. before the icc, war crimes were handled by special u.n. tribunals. including the high profile trial of the former yugoslav president for the mass killing of innocent people. >> i consider this tribunal forced tribunal and indictments forced indictments. it is illegal. >> reporter: he died in jail before his trial ended. the bosnian served military leader was indicted in 1995 but evaded arrest until 2011. the court found he was guilty of genocide. and in 2017 he began a lifetime prison sentence. >> sentences you to death by hanging. >> reporter: but it was of

course the nuremberg trials after the second world war that set the standard for war crimes prosecution. far less unity among nations today, though, about who is guilty and who is not. and despite the indictment, few expect the russian leader ever to see the inside of a court. matthew chance, cnn, london. >> perhaps justice will prevail. the news continues here on cnn right after a quick break. ean to be ever better? its your customers getting what they ordered when they expect it. discover how ryder ecommerce makes s your customer's experiee ever better.

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-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com well, good evening, everyone. i'm laura coates, and this is "cnn tonight." and listen, we could just be days away from learning whether donald trump, a former president of the united states, will face criminal charges over the payment of hush money to adult film actress