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good evening everyone. welcome to cnn tonight. we begin with two alarming crime stories. a pennsylvania manner arrested after trying to bring explosives on a plane to florida. police say it is not terrorism, so what was it. >> then the story of a heinous murder in st. louis caught on cell phone. the next image is graphic it appears to be the moment the suspect shot a homeless man and the hand and brought daylight in a town in st. louis. tonight we will give you the real stats on crime and how it is being used as a potent political issue. >> and some of the lawmakers trying to make dressing in drag illegal are the same lawmakers who themselves have dressed in women's clothing. we have the photos to prove it. >> how much would it takes for you to move back to your home

state. how about $25,000, we will explain. we have a lot to talk about so let's bring in my panel. we have my ex john. i won't say x of what. john miller our crime and justice savant. great to have all of you guys here. let's start with the explosive on the plane. is this guy a criminal or and 88? did he know what he was doing. >> they are not mutually exclusive. >> but i feel you need to say which this is is. seek. >> we are drifting towards knucklehead there are two distinct possibilities. one that he put explosives on the plane hidden in a suitcase behind the liner as a test to see if a bomb could be smuggled on a plane. the other possibility is he is a knucklehead who had his pipe there, with residue from whatever he was smoking, his fireworks which he apparently

had taken it apart from a pyrotechnic show and attached to eight views and some for his trip to florida. seek so far, based on the background that the fbi -- fbi task has none of the knowledge the police have of this individual, the knucklehead is winning out. >> i am comforted by this story. it worked. the tsa found a. he checked his bag and tsa founded. they pulled it off of the plane. they arrested him. the system works. >> i think we have gotten used to not hearing these stories. i am a child or adult 911 and the things that happened afterwards. it has been a long time since you heard something like this. for all of the times you go through tsa, or drop your bags off they are not really looking, but they looked. in all of the ways. and it did catch, i don't think he is an idiot. i think i don't think he was

trying to do something. i usually don't mistakingly put my bomb in my suitcase. i usually remember to leave it at home before i go to the airport. >> didn't he say he was going to use it as fireworks or something? >> it was collected as fireworks but the reality here, this is sensitive to impact, to friction, to heat. it is -- it is going in the cargo hole where those variables exist, things to heart, to cold and banging around. if it had self ignited there was no detonator attached to it that would have allowed it to act on a timer. but had something caused it to go off in flight, that is really bad. there would've been a flash anna fire. >> all of these criminology courses. it is really bad if it goes off and knucklehead. >> i am trying to use the technical terms i learned at the academy. >> that's good.

>> it is part of being a savant. >> i am happy that the system work. the thing that makes me a little uncomfortable, his name was called over the speaker once they identified the bag in the left. why did you leave? >> because he knew what was in his bag. >> because he had a bomb. >> but was it 0 gosh, i forgot but a bomb or they found the bomb. that is the key. >> when you hide something in the liner of your suitcase and they're calling your name on the loudspeaker you loudspeaker you are in port. >> now let's talk about the more serious and heinous crime in stl frame from cell phone video. it is really disturbing. a bystander caught on table -- tape. brought daylight. apparently there was an altercation at a gas station. shortly after that this homeless man is shot in the head at 10:0n

st. louis. this crime is just what every single american fears about crime which is, an altercation at and area gas station can deadly -- escalate to a deadly incident. do you know any more about this guy's background? >> not much more, because the district attorney there has not released his background. but i think what you are seeing their and the reason this has become a big political thing, this is a town that as another progressive district attorney who is looking for criminal justice reform and other alternatives and then seeing crime go up. you have, we were just talking the other day about a state trying to takeover police departments, judges and prosecutors in mississippi. here is a case where the state attorney general is trying to remove the district attorney and

start prosecuting criminal cases through his office so it is complicated and messy. >> if this criminal did not have a background, or reputation i don't know what you want the district attorney to do. but since 2000 in st. louis the crime is gonna. in 2020 the last year we have numbers for it went up 36%. if we look nationally, the crime rate is the homicide rate, 34% higher now than it was in 2019 end the year before the pandemic. although some cities it has come up marketability and some gone down. >> is down for the last year? the numbers here, there is no question that there is more crime now than there was before the pandemic. the question is where is it trending since the end of the pandemic. i think that is murkier.

it doesn't make it any less frightening though. if you are living near actual crime, and you are living near the portrayals of actual crime which has as much of an impact as the crime itself. so it's not what our crime is committed it is when it ends up on the front page of they cover everything that is remotely like it. whether or not it is going up in a meaningful way, you feel it because you are reading about it. >> just last night, we were on the air when lori lightfoot lost her bid for a second term and i wonder if you think, it was about crime, much of it was about crime some was about schools. i wonder if that is seen as a bellwether for the democrats? >> certainly republicans will use this as way to make a larger conversation. but i think particularly when it comes to chicago is unique. during the primary she got less than 20% of the boat. so she went into the general

election in 2019 not necessarily with a went to begin with. so when she began writing a check prompts with city council she was already someone who wasn't beloved when she got there. she made history because she was a democrat. not because she was loyal. so when she got in trouble, that is when you realize, she was not supported as much as we thought to begin with. i don't want to inflate her situation with what happened in st. louis and i think they are all unique. >> listen, i work for the new york daily news. i see the stories of the crime. not just on a daily basis but throughout the day. storage devices, the real stories. they do train a picture of crime. real or exaggerated, that you feel. i don't know why democrats keep seating this argument to republicans. you don't have to pretend it is an invention.

arguing the stats i think is important to give the right numbers but if people feel afraid, i think politicians will do well to acknowledge that and lean into that. i can tell you very honestly and someone who works in new york city, i feel afraid in new york city. someone who goes to d.c. to arbor d.c. bureau i won't leave there at night by myself. >> more than you did years ago. >> one 100%. it is a real feeling. you can tell me the numbers don't back it up but i can see it and feel it. i think chicago was about crime. you can't argue those numbers. the mayor is responsible for that. >> it is also the fight with the union and the -- >> it's a big record. >> is not just the chicago crime , because it has been part of the fabric since the 60s and 70s. >> is the trend going up or down. >> the trend line shot up into account in 2020 got the

combination of covid-19, and the fallout from george floyd and those were both factors. in 2021, you saw them struggle with that. in 2022 you saw things, on the national side, everyplace was different specifically but the trip was starting to trend down. here is the problem though, whether it is up from 2020 or down, no place is almost back to 2019 will we had these really low crime rates. in places like new york city and washington, you thought nothing of walking around the streets late at night. we are not back to 2019 and there are a bunch of factors in place. >> thank you very much. if you were offertory $5,000 to move back to the state you left, would you do it? one state is betting you would. we will talk about it next. >> i would pay new jersey new jersey $25,000 to take me back.

i would.

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♪ experience the exhilaration of the performance line at the invitation to lexus sales event. would you move back to your home state for $25,000, yes, i would. there is a new bill making its way through the legislator that would offer $25,000 to former residents who live outside of the state. is that enough to bring back people for that shrinking

population. is the state senator. senator, thank you so much for being here. let's talk about this. west virginia lost more residents than any other state per capita since 2010. one of so many people left the state? >> well you can taken us back to 1950 we actually had fewer people come up there and we did then. we are the only state that claims that. so, steel and coal, i have fallen times and manufacturing. so, west virginia has an affinity to home, and sadly many of our people have had to leave the state to be educated or to follow their profession or occupation. what this bill does, it would incentivize some of these folks coming back home to work.

>> why argue only offering it to previous residence why not open it up to anybody living in the united states to move back to west virginia? >> there would be a lot of room for mischief if we said just come and we will give you $25,000, tax credit. maybe we will call this a pilot project and see how it goes. if it succeeds, we will open it up. >> are you afraid that people from virginia or, north carolina move, they would come in and collect the $25,000. i assume you have guardrails to keep that from happening. >> what we do have some guardrails. this is, so many of our people have left. and they come here to vacation. they come here to see nature's bounty. we just like to have them come back and live here. yes, we could open it up to more

people and i think that it's really a great idea. >> while you are welcome in that case, for that idea. so, $25,000 is a lot of money how will the economics work there? >> what will happen is, you move back, and you have a credit of $25,000 on your personal income tax. we are a fairly low tax state, and you can't really taken that in the first year but over the years you will save some serious money. we are looking at folks that are remote workers. a lot of folks, we have upgraded our access to the internet, because of the mounds that has been a challenge. we are hoping remote workers find their way back home. >> so it passed the senate unanimously so i'm assuming that doesn't happen often appear. >> correct. >> when you predict this will be in effect? >> i would say july 1.

we also welcome visitors. you would have to come down here and try our national parks. national forest. national river. all of the recreation that we offer. >> it sounds lovely we will do that. thanks for the invitation senator. great to talk you tonight. thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. >> i will be back with my panel. do you want to take him up on this? >> it is a beautiful state but you pointed out the fundamental flaw and the reasoning. the fatal flaw. the present best wrecked the people left, know why they left. you are targeting the least likely people. and now you are offering them money. i really do think they should open it up to other people. i think it is a good idea if you want to incentivize people to come in for different reasons. >> i do too. it is a tax. you get it in a tax credit so

you can't tick the money and run. you stayed there and over the course of years you deduct 10,0001 year in 2,000 another year. i don't know why he said it would create mischief except he doesn't trust anyone. >> while you know we are a little shady. i temporarily considered thinking about west virginia, for free when we were looking. my husband and i sold our home in arizona we are trying to figure out where to live in. we saw many states were open offering these packages if you move here we will give you a tax cut. it is actually gorgeous there. all you have to do is type in lgbtq and then it will say this

is not for me. i did move to texas which is a note for lgbtq but there are enough pockets where i feel comfortable and west virginia doesn't have enough pockets and i would've been silent. >> not to mention, people with the memes and ability to move, they look at a few things. they look at schools, they look at jobs, they look at crime. >> west virginia schools ranked 41st in the nation. the manufacturing jobs are gone. there was an opioid crisis that created concern. there are reasons not to move to west virginia and i would look at figuring those problems out to bring some new residents back. >> for retirees, what he was describing how beautiful it is there are mountains, lakes and rivers for retirees, that is why they should open it up. if you are not looking at schools or jobs, -- >> i can attest. i have hunted, fished and camped in west virginia it is beautiful for that. a place to live that is tougher especially for someone like me with the young family. >> i think look at two things

here. number one, it is a solution, the pinnacle of short-term thinking. the real issue is, what do we need to fix as west virginians or west virginia to draw people in. paying people to come back is an admission of failure with a touch of bribery. if you get to the map of it. a teacher in west virginia who is making $42,000 per year, who goes to oakland is i t -- is making $68,000. are they going to go back for their salary to go down? >> is it the chicken and the egg. you first need to draw people back before you can fix all of the problems you're describing. >> i think one of those mistakes we make, we think you can do economic development and all of your problems will go away. you have to make your key problems go away before people

are interested in economically developing unit that has been an urban story we have seen in l.a., new york. >> asked rhode island about pain people asking people to stay, that has almost bankrupted the state and hasn't solved the problems. thank you all for those perspectives. >> we got some real answers. >> let me make it clear no one leaves west virginia? >> they bring on so much. >> that's not nice. he has a lovely state senator. and he made a great case. >> he did. then we were like see you later. >> moving on. another lawmaker who wants to ban dry performances was caught dress in women's clothing. hypocrisy.

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last night we told you about the tennessee governor who sponsored a band bill only to have a photo surface of him in women's clothing. now a similar bill to drag -- band drag and wait for it, that is state representative cavorting, he is wearing a tight black dress. a sequined dress and red feathers. he reached out -- we reach out for comment and i've yet to hear back. he did put out a tweet saying that was for fun. >> just a few hours ago he did release this video message.

>> the left-wing is attacking me for a class project i did as a teenager where my buddies made me wear a dress. this won't distract me from the real message of what we are trying to get done right here in the texas legislator. >> why is it always a class project when a republican does it. what kind of a class project is that. >> is that dr. dre in the background music. >> of course he was wearing a dress. my wife says don't point the finger because there are three fingers pointing back at yourself. this is one of those things. come on. >> you know watch people dress in drag, it is fun and funny. and drag performances are funny. he knew it then when he was cavorting down the street in his black sequence dress but he has forgotten that and now he is sponsoring a bill so there cannot be any of that in texas. >> not for anyone else except for me.

i can keep on doing this for fun but no one else. >> that is because it has nothing to do with drag. this is an anti- lgbtq bill and this is a different way of saying the exact same thing. tootsie, 1982, ten oscar nominations won an oscar. ten years fast-forward, mrs. doubtfire for kids, i had won an oscar. >> don't forget some like it hot. >> ronald reagan was in drag. milton burrell. drag has been in our culture forever. >> you know who else, rudy giuliani. do we have photos, let's see it. >> you know, you are really beautiful. someone that looks like that has to have her own scent. >> maybe you can help me.

>> i like that. >> this may be the best of all. oh, you dirty boy you. donald, i thought you were a gentleman. >> you can't say i didn't try. >> oh my goodness. that should come with a warning label. i did not know how badly that was going to age. that has aged badly on every single level. i felt dirty. >> yes, i was uncomfortable. forget drag story hour showed the kids this. >> i spent four years in college dress as a woman, right. i did. i met my wife doing a drag show. i am one of the few people who could say that. >> that's true he was in an

acting group. >> i was the chief dresser of drag. are their states i can't go to now? is there a statue of limitations? montana, south dakota, tennessee, west virginia, arizona, south carolina all considering a ban on drag shows. >> no respect for history because drag goes back centuries. that is ancient history. no respect for the modern places where it is rich cultural value. and the way people talk about it it's a shame. >> furthermore, when you see the state representative cavorting in the black sequined dress is he sexualizing children? is he grooming someone there?

obviously, it is fun. he knew was fun. so did the governor know it was fun. so did george santos when he was dressing in drag. in fact he says here, while i will let him say it because he talks about how fun it was. >> i was a drag in brazil, i was young and at a festival. sue me for having a live. >> sumi or arrest other people for having a light. >> and if it was fun and games, i would not care. but these bills disguised as anti- gate bills are fueling violence. people are showing up to drag shows with weapons and threatening to kill people for this. it would be helpful if these hypocrites would pretend they are not -- i try to help children when they are just drumming up their base and getting attention or whatever the political motive but nothing that benefit society. >> that is right. and it is a domino effect. once you introduce legislation not only are we engaging in the

politicized patient of everything, but now you're putting the government seal on this should be illegal which is giving agency to the people who say we might strike out which is leading to hate crimes and assaults. if you look into things, once the blackout that occurred on christmas in north carolina at the precise moment the drag queen story our was beginning with an audience full of children. that is still one of the potential motives. but if you get to the darker side of this as you pointed out, you have drag queen events going on up small public libraries, community organizations and theaters across the country where members of the proud boys are showing up in army uniforms carrying ar-15 rifles with the magazines in them dressed with helmets and night goggles. i don't know, what has the potential to scare a small child

more, a guy in a dress reading a story book, or five guys with machine guns sending outside of their local library? >> thank you for that. again, there was quite a shocking rudy and donald trump. >> what was rudy's name, do you know? >> i don't know. i didn't even remember donald trump would be of that. >> meanwhile the separation of church and state is major in america but new york city mayor says he does not believe in separation of church and state. he can't separate state and politics. coming up next. likeke a lot of businesses did. i heard about the payroll tax refund, it allowed us to keep the amount of people that we needed and the people that have been here taking care of us. see if your business may qualify. go to getrefunds.com.

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government. here's what he said. >> don't tell me about a separation of church and state. state is the body. church is the heart. you tick the heart out of the body, the body dies. i can't separate my belief because i am an elected official. when i walk, i walk with god. when i talk, i talk with god. when i put policies in place i put them in with a godlike approach to them. >> back with the panel now. the mayor's closes aide martin, took the stage first before he said the adams administration does not believe in the separation of church and state. what are we supposed to make of that? >> years ago i wrote a book called losing our religion. it talked about a lot of this and how politics and religion get a little co- mingled. you know, some of what he said

was not weird. he doesn't have to separate his faith from his job. and people like sarah palin, and some other religious folks would be mocked a lot for saying, she prayed on big decisions. this is normal. what is chilling and not normal is, the suggestion or the dismissal of this institution known as both first amendment specifically church and state. what democrats and liberals so often misinterpret about this, they imagine it simply as freedom from religion. he seems to be missing the freedom of religion part of it because it is both. it is both. he doesn't have to shed his faith at the door of the mayors office or the mansion but he certainly needs to suggest that church and state belongs together and some kind of simple and legal aspect. >> was a metaphor use.

>> hard and the mind. >> are the heart is god. he has to allow for the possibility there could be other people running the city who has something else in their chest cavity than god because they may not be religious. he has to, has to legally, constitutionally, allowing for both people to govern every bit as much as he is. >> what if the religion is different. what if they worship a different god. argue opening up your heart to allow them to also express themselves with the god they choose to worship your. >> what about atheists? >> because he identifies as a christian he has a specific religion he's thinking about, christianity. i wonder how he would feel about having muslims work for him. >> it wasn't interfaith. >> and he wasn't speaking from an interfaith person. >> i think he was candid about his belief system and what guides him but i have to believe

he is open to other religions. what he seems less open to -- >> atheists. >> and the constitution. >> in my heart there's no charge. i don't believe in god. i am dead. with that comment means that with interfaith there is a gathering but there are a lot of people don't believe in god at all and night don't think that it's a great message for the mayor to talk outside of himself. talk about your relationship to god that is fine, great, i celebrate you and your right to do that. but don't dismiss, and i think crab on, the people in the world who don't see it the same and are protected by the constitution. >> do you consider yourself an atheist? >> i am an atheist. >> john. >> nobody -- nobody's business. being agnostic is easier sometimes i'm just to lazy. but i think, you said, what

about people of other faith. i think often people of faith have no issue of other faith, the one group that seems okay to discriminate against our atheists, people who don't believe in god or actively believe there is no god. they don't seem to be allowed the same leeway. >> i just think in the physics of the bali -- body politic for every action there is an equal or opposite overreaction. this is one of them. he is a politician. he is in a room full of religious leaders in saint i am the mayor and that is a clinical and political job but i believe in god and now who hasn't been mayor of new york city where the decisions are daunting and hard has not said to themselves, may have mentioned, god give me the strength to decide the right thing. lord jesus lead me to the solution to this crisis because

lives are the balance. i have stood with that mayor, and other mayors in hospital emergency rooms where, people who never mentioned god suddenly start to talk to god right there about the police officer on the operating table may not make it. so jimmy carter invoked god all of the time. the bushes involved god. someone wrote a critical book in god they trust about the bush administration. this is -- >> he also said he felt like he was called by god to be the mayor. that's also not weird. a lot of people file calling to go into public service. a lot of people talk about feeling called. >> he didn't -- when he didn't say and anyone who doesn't believe in god shouldn't work for me and kind of made that implied, it is not implied. >> he did not flat out say that.

i have no problem saying i'm a christian. my problem is, torching the constitution as you celebrate your religion in an interfaith ceremony. >> he said they declared that the adams administration does not believe in the separation of church and state. is that ringing alarm bells? >> i don't quite understand it. i get the concept but i don't understand the differentiation by the spokesman because, it is the first amendment that guarantees your right to your religion and you have the aclu saying the mayor has a right to religion but he better be careful they are and, -- >> i just find it strange. coming after the tromp administration which actively look to erode all of these institutions are most recently

talked about terminating parts of the constitution. so it is shilling for an elected official to say i don't believe in the separation of church and state to our democracy and constitution. no one is challenging his right to be religious and talk about it. talk about it on time. >> i think he said the separation of church and state with him. >> i would be better. >> that is what he was saying that is fine but it left room for interpretation towards the end. >> no, the spokesman said but to be absolutely clear, he was saying his faith guides his decisions, meaning the mayors, not his. and not others. and that anyone shouldn't be forced to comply with these beliefs. no one is talking about changing the constitution or the law. >> of course actions would be different than words. he is allowed to say what he wants about what guides him if he was referred to policies that would be a different

conversation. it was only bet that seem to be strange if you make that announcement that the administration doesn't believe. >> we have seen so many examples of faith becoming part of legislation. the entire conversation about gay rights. about reproduction health and reproduction rights. those are heavily religious topics for a lot of people. it is important we find out from the mayor where he really is on this conversation and not just assume because he didn't say it, must be one way or another. we have seen policies faith connected that are harming a lot of people. >> all right friends, thank you for all of those perspectives. now to this. he has been barefoot for 20 years. at the grocery store, going for a run, even at restaurants. why he does it and went othe r

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all right, imagine living your life barefoot. all the time. that's how joseph -- junior lives, he's profiled in the new york times, under the headline, he took off issues 20 years ago, he hasn't put them back on. he says he first went barefoot because of agonizing bunions, quote, about 20 years ago, they had become painful. throbbing. during long runs, indicts neighbors, and interfering with his life, he saw a doctor who recommended surgery as he waited for the scheduled procedure, he went without shoes because they were so intense. he then learned that screws would have to be implanted in his feet and they contained metal, he was allergic to. he also realized that he felt much better without shoes. he did not take them on before you realize that going barefoot was enriching his life. discuss.

we bring back my panel, so, the best thing about this article, john, miller. is right now wishing he was invisible, you're not, john, i can see you. the thing is, he goes without shoes on runs, and he has gone to restaurants without shoes. he goes into gas stations and he goes into stores and he lives his life without shoes. >> does he shower when he puts on work boots? >> no, he doesn't. >> and he does shower before before getting in his bed with his wife who is a shoe where are. >> the ultimate mixed marriage. >> she identifies as a shoe where as the article says. >> -- he walked from so that he could run. remember that barefoot era of research. >> i'm mixed on this, i spent the first 18 years of my life wearing shoes. the last 15 in heels. i guarantee you his feet are in better condition than mine. guaranteed.

part of me is a little jealous of this. the liberation. but i also love my heels. i can't imagine the things that he stepped on. >> every single time i go through tsa line, i see someone wearing with flip-flops, i just go, you're about to walk through the scanner barefoot. >> yes you are. >> that is nasty. >> as the only time in which i don't like to judge people, -- >> that's judging. >> that's when it kicks. in what i'm in the airport and i see you go through that tsa line that's like going, all these people are standing here like this. and we've all stepped on stuff. and you are there barefoot. that is nasty. >> no shirt, no shoes, no dice? how does this guy live without dice? >> he only goes to small mom and pop stores and mom and pop restaurants where they accept this quirk. they ignore sanitation rules. >> but he's also challenge those rules. he's walked into places in connecticut barefoot, sorry, you have to have shoes to come in here it's a health code. he said, no it's not. look at up.

so, you know, i'm sorry for saying this, he's been a lot of places back on their heels saying, you know, a lot of these are made up rules. -- >> all the rules are made up. >> people say for insurance purposes, he said, that's another when he runs into, i think their default is, go to places where they know this would have to go through this. >> let's tread lightly. >> he's super bad. >> on that note, i'm just gonna pull the plug on this -- >> the last segment had a song. >> thank you all for that input. meanwhile, former house speaker -- >> just tell the line. >> former house speaker paul ryan getting a grilling for staying on the fox board of directors amid all the election lies. >> racism, disinformation and

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