all you have to do is have a basic understanding of the law in america. you can't do what he did and go unpunished. >> his former republican colleagues. >> he is a tote and fetch guy for the president. i'm so disappointed what has happened to him. >> and the 2020 democrats. >> you'll wait and see how it all turns out. >> you think she's more pragmatic. >> i know she's pragmatic. >> plus to boxing ring, from congress. >> you said i wasn't the fastest and i wasn't the strongest but i knew how to take a punch.

>> yeah, that's for sure. >> that's kind of the story of your life and this is part of it. >> welcome to "the axe files." >> good to see you again here in your hometown in las vegas. let me ask you and you watch the news from washington these days and find yourself saying, man, i'd love to be back there now. >> i believe in the old testament verbiage that there's a time for sowing, a time for harvesting, reaping. i enjoyed every minute of the senate but that's not where i am now. the senate is not my senate, and it's really been damaged significantly. >> what do you think now as you're watching the story of the moment which is this ukraine story unfold? are you shocked, are you surprised? >> no, there's nothing in this administration that surprises me

anymore. the answer is no. it's not often in the history of the united states a president self-impeaches. you can't go to a foreign government and have them investigate your opponent. >> so his answer is, yeah, so i did it and i was investigating corruption. and then came out and said china should do this as well. there's a brazenness to his response. >> when you have not one whistle-blower and now there's two, maybe three who have alleged with their whistle blowing that crime has been committed, and all you have to do is have a basic understanding of the law in america, and you can't do what he did and go unpunished. >> do you think that he was withholding aid as leverage to pressure the ukrainians?

>> of course. that's what he did. the evidence is very clear. >> so you concur with speaker pelosi in beginning these impeachment proceedings? >> i think nancy pelosi when i was leader she was speaker for the first time. i've never worked with anyone as visionary as she is, and she has absolute control of her caucus. she has set an example for everybody else. >> the president suggested this week that she's also guilty of treason and called her nervous nancy. but she hasn't looked nervous to me at all. >> nancy pelosi is true patriot. i found her to be someone who really understands the issues and somebody who is courageous enough to carry them forward. she doesn't do anything on the fly. she is prepared and has her troops in order before she does

anything. >> the consensus opinion, and trump has amplified this is that if this were to go to the united states senate, that there's almost zero chance that he would be convicted because it would require 20 republicans to concur. is that your read as well? >> one of the things that i'm disappointed in about washington is what the senate has become and also disappointed with what the republican senators have not become. they have not become the republican senators who did what they thought was the right thing to do. and these republicans are afraid to speak out against things he does that are absolutely wrong and they know they're wrong. the omperson we've gotten to say anything is mitt romney and

sasse has said something of nebraska. other that that, they don't say anything. >> if there is an impeachment trial and the evidence is compelling do you think there will be some republicans that will vote for conviction? >> that depends on what evidence that is put forward. it's not that simple. you know, i served as a juror on the impeachment of bill clinton. it's a very formal proceeding and a lot depends on how well the managers do to presenting that case to the senate. so, yes, i think a dees want case can be presented to the sept but unless something changes dramatically, the republicans are afraid trump will question them in a primary and and they're more afraid of being re-elected than doing the right thing for the country. >> lindsey graham was someone you worked closely with across the aisle and you've said nice things about him in the past. he's become a very staunch

supporter of the president. >> i just told you have zero problems with the phone call. to impeach any president over a phone call like this would be insane. >> it's amazing what happened to him when john mccain died. he suddenly was no longer a john mccain republican. he became a south carolina i want to get re-elected republican. and he is a tote and fetch guy for the president. i said such admiration for him. i'm so disappointed in what has happened to him. his whole personality has changed since john passed. >> setting aside the substance of these matters you have to acknowledge he has i always call it a ferrule genius but his strategy here is to say i'm not corrupt, they're corrupt. they're the ones guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, and

it's to muddy the waters. it's a cynical strategy but might it be an effective one? >> i used to think that donald trump was not too smart. i certainly don't believe that anymore. i don't think he's ipt lecktually a powerhouse but he's basically a very, very smart man. no matter what the subject any argument he involves himself in it's on his terms. if you're always arguing against him, he never, ever is willing to debate an issue on terms that aren't his. >> so how do you deal with that, if you're a candidate running, for example, how would you advise they deal with that? >> what i say initially and say it right here on your show anyone who thinks trump is going to be beaten easily should have another thing coming. he is a man who has a stalwart 40% people out there who will vote for him no matter what he

does. as donald trump said i could shoot somebody in times square, they would still support me. that's sad but probably true. so i number one, i repeat he is not going to be beaten easily. he's going to take a campaign of wisdom and patience but he is beatable for sure. >> you mentioned the bill clinton impeachment trial in 1998. there is this theory that is somewhat myth and reality that republicans paid a price for that in the fall of 1998 and that they lost seats in their election. they should have gained seats. are there risks here for democrats? >> david, i've heard that argument and i don't agree with it. and here's why. the reason that bill clinton didn't get hurt on impeachment because it was such a weak ground. it was a sexual relationship supposedly with a girl in the

white house. >> it wasn't supposedly. he acknowledged it eventually. >> yeah, but it wasn't as if he was bringing her to the lincoln room. it was an issue dealing with impeachment people felt it wasn't strong enough to bring an impeachment proceeding. with what's alleged against trump it is cleary a crime what he's done. and i think it's a tremendous difference. >> this whole thing at its core an attempt to weaken joe biden as a candidate who's leading him in the polls right now. and he has thrust front and center these questions about hunter biden. these questions of corruption have been debunked by a lot of the media. but there are these questions why hunter biden was even involved in ukraine. is this going to be a problem for biden in the long-term, this repetitive meme out there? >> joe biden has a lot of strong suits. but one of the things that joe

biden is admired for is his life story. he's had a lot of -- lot of difficult times in his life. and i think for now someone to pick on as remaining son that he basically helped raise after the boy's mother was killed, i think they've gone too far. i don't think anyone's going to accept the fact that joe biden's son is some kind of person that's going to drag down joe biden. i don't think so. >> but you would agree it probably wasn't that prude want for hunter to be accepting large fees from a ukrainian oligarch while his father was vice president. >> i think it's not something that's going to help joe. >> coming up on the ax e files. >> i can remember the first time i heard his name. i said what are you talking

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so i want to talk to you about this 2020 race. where do you think the race is right now? >> well, it's joe piebiden's ra to lose. she was taking tens of thousands of selfie pictures with people every time she gets a chance, so she's doing very well. >> you said she's doing well here in nevada. >> she's doing very well in nevada. >> i recall getting a call from senator barack obama in spring 2006 and he came from a meeting with you. he said he inkurmged me to run for president. >> i can remember the first time i ever heard his name. i was in the house gym. i was a retired member, i was in the senate but i went to the house gym for many years.

he said i've got the greatest person going to run for the u.s. senate. and i said who could that be? he said his name is barack obama. i said what are you talking about? barack obama, what kind of a name is that? that's exactly what i said to him. i say this about barack obama, but understand his response to me was not done in a form of being a braggart, being c conceited. he was giving a speech and i walked to his desk and i was standing and i said, senator, that was a really good speech. he looked at me so seriously and he said yes, i have a gift. now, i know that sounds like who the hell does he think he is, but think about that. this man has a gift of communication. he has that. before he came to the senate he wrote a couple of books.

who wrote a book about his growing up and they were best sellers. and he didn't have somebody write the book. he wrote it. so i had a sense that barack obama, it was a time for someone as articulate as he, someone who could really command an audience, i just felt it was a time for barack obama -- >> he also opposed the iraq war which was an asset. you also had something to do with elizabeth warren being where lelizabeth warren is righ now. you recruited her, head of the oversight panel on the bank bail out. you recruited her on the senate race. >> i read some stuff, basically a couple of reviews of her book and i was fascinated about that. >> the two income trap about the middle class. >> so i called her and she said she was doing a party for some of her students at her home.

and i called her, you know, i don't have a very loud voice and she couldn't hear me very well. she said who's this, and i said i'm the majority leader of the sept. i said i want you to come visit me in washington. so she came down, brought her daughter with her. told her i want to put her on my debt commission, and she said i'll take it, and she was immediately confirmed as a chair of that board and did such a good job. she was good. so good that we did the don frank wall street reform bill and she came up an i.d. to have a consumer affairs department. >> right. >> and we thought that would be a good spot for her. president obama wanted to put her there. >> and he did to set the thing up. >> but we couldn't get her the job because some republicans and frankly a couple of democrats opposed her. >> why did they oppose her?

>> well, she damn sure knew more than they knew and they were afraid of her. she knew wall street, and wall street they were up in arms she mind ruin our country. i think she proved that what they should have done, they should have given her the job. because they didn't give her the job, we had a run for the senate. >> she said she'd still be there if they'd given her the job. >> but they didn't do that. i think she's overcome a lot of the concern people had about her. she was in the sen. i put her on the banking committee. some people said you shouldn't do that, she's a flamethrower. she never surprised anybody, never surprised the ranking member of the committee of the bank. she's a team player. >> you put her in leadership as well. >> sure did. as linden johnson said he'd rather have them inside of the te tent because it's better to have them pissing out then pissing

in. >> and there's a concern as well expressed by some establishment democrats that she is too far left. >> i think that's -- let's just wait. for example, medicare for all, asked how do you feel about i said what we need to do first is make sure obamacare is strengthening. republicans have done everything they can to hurt it. let's strengthen it. we almost got the public option the first time. >> that's not what she's saying, though. >> i think give her some time. i think she's not in love with that. i think you'll wait and see how that all turns out. >> so you think she's more pragmatic in. >> i know she's more pragmatic. >> do you think the party itself, there's this lament the party is drifting left. >> you and i have been involved in politics for a long time. i know what's happening now is no different than what's happened in years past. primaries they're always pulled

to the left, that's what parties to do the candidates. >> so when you decided to retire from the senate, you said i want to go out on the top of my game, i don't want to be a 42-year-old trying to become a designated hitter which i loves a baseball fan. i love the reference and i know you're a baseball fan as well. but joe biden and bernie sanders are older now than you are then, and as we speak senator sanders are recovering from a heart attack and we obviously wish him for a speedy recovery. but let me ask you an indelicate question. knowing what you know about that job, are they too -- >> i'm not really concerned about age. you know, you take president carter's now 95 years old, still

very active. i'm not really sold on a certain age means you're not qualified for the job. i think the race is joe biden's to lose. >> ahead on the axe files. >> i'm the only senator in the history of the world that learned to -- that's some great paint. ♪ that's some great paint. behr, ranked #1 in customer satisfaction with interior paints. right now get incredible savings on behr marquee interior. exclusively at the home depot.

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here we are in this remarkable city of las vegas, your city by the hotel where the great water show goes on from time to time in the shadow of the wi the eiffel tower. yours is something of a completely different order. talk about growing up in searchlight, nevada. >> david, i never felt poor or i

felt i had a pretty good life. it wasn't until my dear brother died and he was quite a bit older than i, and his little daughter, my niece, sent me some pictures. she'd gone through some of his belongings and sent me pictures of me in searchlight. i couldn't believe that's how i was raised. i couldn't believe it. i mean, the house was just made out of railroad tiles that had been picked up from the railroad. >> no running water. >> and no inside toilet of course. and i didn't realize until i saw this picture, damn, i didn't realize it was that bad. >> it was a mining town that got down on its luck. >> the number one industry when i was a boy there was prostitution. at one time there were 13 brothels in searchlight, 13. >> and how many people in the whole town? >> 200.

because it was during the time when they had military bases in southern nevada. and on payday that place would be like grand central station. >> did you know as a kid what was going on? >> well, yes, i did. but i thought it's not much different there than anyplace else. i'm the only senator in the history of the world that learned to swim in a -- house swimming pool. >> and they moved the pool in order to accommodate the brothel. >> that's true. >> tla only had school up to 8th grade. >> and no kindergarten. >> but you had to hitchhike 45 miles to go to high school. >> so i didn't do it every day, but i did do it. >> as a young kid you came to henderson right outside of las vegas where you -- >> 46 miles away. >> and some things happened

there that were life changing. one is you met your wife, landra. tell me about that. >> you know, i came over from searchlight dressed different than the other kids. my hair wasn't the same. but people were pretty nice to me. and i've had a lot of elections, but the most important election in my life i was a junior in high school and i was elected junior class treasurer. i know that sounds like nothing to anybody else, but to me i'd finally been accepted. that was to me the most important election of my life. >> before we leave searchlight, i need to talk to you about your dad in particular. he was a miner, he was a brawler, he was a drinker. you wrote you needed to intervene at times to protect your mother from your dad. it sounded like a very, very

difficult environment for a kid. >> well, my dad was a big tough guy, drank way too much. there were times when it became necessary for my brother and i to intervene. now, one-on-one we couldn't have taken our dad, but poegt of us could so we didn't hit him. we took him down. he was so mad, but he couldn't handle the two of us. >> because you didn't want him to lay hands on your mom. >> that's right. that's why we did it in the first place. so he meant well. my dad was never physically abusive to me, but i can remember one of the best days of my life turned out being one of the worst. i had the opportunity to go to caesar's palace here in las vegas. i had the good fortune of being able to come and spend two hours with mohamed ali. he was in his trunks, had a bathrobe on and was getting

ready to go spar. >> and you were a boxer. >> oh, yeah, so i had such a good time with him. and he was so personable, so nice. i left there and wept back to my office. as i walked in joni shay was the receptionist at my office, she said your mom's on the phone. i picked the phone up and she said your pop shot himself. and so he was dead at that time, so had to go out and was on the bed there, blood all over. >> he was still there when you got there. >> yeah. so i remember that. now, suicide was something that happens to other people. and that's the way it is with people who have a loved one that commits suicide. never do you expect it. >> yes. >> but i learned a lot about suicide. but it took me quite a while to acknowledge that my dad killed himself. >> yes. >> and it wasn't until we had a hearing, we were doing a hearing on senior depression. and during that hearing mike

wallace testified, the famous journalist, he said, you know, i wanted to die for years. >> suffered from depression. >> yes, and he said now and i talk to somebody once in a while, i take some medication, i want to live. first i acknowledged my dad committed suicide, and that hearing was so important. we have done so little to understand suicide. >> my father committed suicide as well, senator, and i was 19 years old when it happened. i didn't talk about it for 30 years. and it was a terrible mistake because -- >> i know. >> there's a stigma associated with it that is terribly unfair and wrong. it's not a defective character. it's mental illness and it has to be treated like any other illness. >> and as we look back, if we had known what we were doing, we could have seen this coming because he was a terribly withdrawn, introvert his whole life.

and he'd been sick and killed himself. >> you went to law school. >> yes. >> in the east after graduating from utah state. >> that's right. >> and you had what in retrospect is an incredibly ironic job to put yourself through law school. >> i was a policeman. capital police. >> so your job was to protect members of congress. >> yes. >> you came back to nevada and you were practicing law and you pretty quickly got involved in politics. first on a hospital governance board, then the state legislator. and by the time you were 30 you were lieutenant governor of nevada. >> that was a race up and we're getting ready for re-election and one of them says to me why don't you run for lieutenant governor? and i said lieutenant governor,

i never thought about it before. and before i had left there they talked about a press release and i was running for lieutenant governor. i went home. and i said landra, i'm running for lieutenant governor. that was it. >> and four years later you're 34 years old, you run for the united states senate. in a year that was a historically good democratic year in the midst of watergate and you lost. >> by 524 votes. >> and then one year later you lost a race for mayor of las vegas. you're on your way up and by the time you're 35 you're a two-time loser. did you think that was the end of your political career? >> i thought about it, but one reason i worked so hard to make sure it wasn't the case, so i dywad didn't want those bastards to

believe they'd buried me early. so my friend michael callahan -- >> who was a mentor of yours. your history teacher, you're boxing coach. >> he was the only mentor i really ever had. and he appointed me state gaming commission, and i was chairman of that. and that was a time of very, very difficult time in the history of the state of nevada. organized crime came out of the wood work. we always thought it was here and it was here big time. and i survived through that. >> yeah, you survived through it. you're being modest. your friend the governor appointed you head of the gambling commission and you almost got killed doing it. >> oh, yeah, they put a bomb on our car. >> and as you point out it was your wife who saw some suspicious wires -- >> the car wasn't running very well and she's not much of a mechanic and that's an understatement. and she lifted up the hood and she could see these wires down there. so she stopped and the fire

truck came, fire engines and police came and i can still see my little boy. he was 5 years old at the time, looking out the window and seeing all the police and everything and i know that had an impact on his life. >> when you finally got elected to congress, what, 1982? >> yes. >> there was a new district from the las vegas area and you got elected. everything must have seemed like childs play after dealing with the mob. >> i love that job so much. i kept thinking am i going to have to pay somebody? i should be paying somebody. they're paying me to do this. it was just so wonderful. up next on "the axe files." >> i think clooney elected trump. he was afraid to take a stand and fear of peag seen as a partisan and he wound up hurting

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in the preface of your autobiography you wrote about and i'm quoting now a presidency that tested our values, usurped our rights as americans and issued an a era of crippling partisan rancor and you called the president a liar. these were not the comments about the incumbent president. these were comments that you made in 2008 about george w. bush. >> president bush is coming to nevada today, and i've written him a letter. what i in this letter said to

him i was the leader, you were president and we knocked heads. i look back with such nostalgia to those days pause i lament the fact you're not there now and that's how i feel about it. >> he's going to check thea t n thenticity of the letter. >> he knows a lot of what we did was partisan bickering. i had a job to do. >> it does speak to the fact this molt has been building up for some time. trump did want create this moment. he exploited it perhaps, he exacerbated it. >> i said this people think trump createed the republican congress. that's not true. the republican congress created trump. look at the senate today. they do nothing. you can't vote an an amendment, and that's why i wrote an op-ed for "the new york times" saying

filibuster is gone, might as well accept it. it's not a question if it's going to be gone, it's when and it's gone. the senate as we've known it is gone. the senate is going to come to the house of representatives and it's not the end of the world. instead of having 60 vote threshold, it'll be a 50 vote threshold. it's still going to be good but understand it's not going to be the way it was. >> talk to me about mitch mcconnell. he was your counterpart throughout your time as leader. he held up the merrick garland nomination for the better part of a year and said you wouldn't take it up. >> mitch mccomand i were a lot together in leadership when he was a whip he was a republican leader when i was democratic leader. so i know mitch mcconnell very well, and i'm not going to

disparage him today but i have been disappointed. i think what he did with the supreme court is something that will go down in history as a very dark time in the history of this country. >> he's now said he wouldn't do that if there were an opportunity to appoint another judge. >> that doesn't say much then, and that's not a positive thing for mitch. >> back in 2016 you were briefed as were the other leaders on what russia was up to in our election. you were more outspoken about it than anyone else. there was a time when the president wanted all four leaders, republicans and democrats to sign a joint statement about this and to issue a warning to russia. why didn't that happen? >> j. johnson came to brief us with the fbi and others. >> the homeland security director. >> that's right, a very fine man. and he was there to tell us that the russians were interfering in our elections and he thought every governor should reach out to him for help to make sure the

elections are protected. and i wanted a letter written by me and mcconnell and mitch wouldn't sign the letter. >> did he say why? >> he said the elections should stay out of it and he got a letter it was so weak, it was meaningless. >> do you think he felt that it would disadvantage trump if there was such a -- >> i don't think it was trump. i think he believes that it would disadvantage the republicans. >> one thing you and the president agree on is neither of you were that crazy about the way jim comey handled the elections at the fbi. >> i think comey elected trump. i think that he's a republican, he didn't want to seem he was

partisan, and he was so unfair so he's the cause of her not winning in my opinion. >> because the charge from the trump side is he was the one that started this investigation and it was partisanly motivated against trump. >> i think he was afraid to take a stand for fear he would be seen as a partisan, and he wondd up hurting everybody. it was a really bad move. and every time i see him in a self-righteous manner talking about people should do the right thing. >> how much culpability do you feel for some of the partisan rancor? you mentioned earlier you regretted some of the things you'd said about president bush but you did what you needed to do in the role that you were in. >> i don't really -- i don't go back and lament what i did or didn't do. i did what i did.

i don't go back and say i could have been nicer, i could have been meaner. i just did at the time what i thought was the right thing, and that's the one thing about me, david. no one ever had to guess how i stood on an issue. i was always very, very candid about how i felt. >> the vote you said you most regretted was the vote to authorize the war in iraq. >> the war in iraq was the worst foreign policy blunder in the history of the country. and i feel the biggest mistake i med legislatively was voting for that. within a week or ten at the most i realized i'd been misled. general p general powell, my friend misled me and i became a tremendous opponent of the war. i think that what that war did destabilized that part of the world and now it's redamaged europe. we have no one knows how many iraqis have been killed but

hundreds of thousands, millions displaced. the whole middle east is in a state of turmoil. >> what do you think of the president's decision earlier in the week to pull out of northern syria and leave the kurds to -- >> i mean he did this in a tweet in the middle of the night some time. >> this is one where he's getting republican opposition as well. >> well, thank goodness. i'm happy to hear that because, you know, the kurds have been our allies. the kurds have been people we depend on. they're the only good fighters in iraq. and to pull the rug out from under them is just not right. >> the affordable care act there are very few people who had as much to do with its passage as you. there were other issues that people wanted to take up, cap and trade on climate change, immigration reform, and you hear in retrospect well they should

have taken most things up in the first two years. but i remember getting a call from you explaining why you couldn't and what the senate calendar would endure. >> but i also had to endure barack obama pause this good man told me -- i would call and say i can't get the health care bill done, and he would say it's more important than my re-election. we've got to get it done so i felt tremendous pressure to get it done. and having been raised the way i was with no health care, my mother had no teeth. i can't haej how she must have worried about it. i did as a little boy. so health care was something we had to get done. and it was one of the landmark piece of legislation in the history of this country. >> were the votes there in those two years when you had 59, 60

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i remember being here in las vegas at the end of the campaign

in 2012. you asked to see president obama. i think you wanted him to cut a radio ad for the individual running for senate in hawaii. we met behind the stage in the arena. >> i remember that. >> you in typically efficient manner made the case for why you needed him to do it. he agreed to do it. then there was this moment of silence and you reached out and you gave him a hug. >> yes. >> and, you know, my sense is that you're not that frequent a hugger. that that is not your way. and i was touched by that moment. >> he, for me, stood for everything good about america. i have been in government my whole life. i never came across anyone that changed the country and the world as much as he did. >> you seemed to have almost a fillial relationship, a pride in

him and maybe part of it is you helped launch the whole endeavor. >> well, i don't hesitate to say on this show, i don't care who is listening, and this is something i don't throw around very often, but i love barack obama. i really do. man-to-man, i love barack obama. no one else could do what he did. he did it alone. of course, he had help. he overcame a lot. from the time he was a boy in hawaii raised by his white grandmother, at the time he was a -- became known as an intellectual genius at harvard. he did it on his own. >> you're someone who has your own extraordinary story. you like people who have a history, who have a story, who overcome things. >> i love the stories of barack obama. >> you are wearing a hat. you were diagnosed in the spring of 2018. >> i lost my hair. >> yes. with cancer. >> yes. >> and you said, when they find

cancer in your pancreas you're dead. we're hear 17 months later and you are very much alive. >> well, you know, one of my friends wrote a very long column for the "new york times." in effect he said he's dead. and i think i sailed at the time, i'm mark twain, the rumors of my death are exaggerated. you know, in the last three or four years they've come up with tremendous medical advances that i have the good fortune of being part of now and, you know, my cancer is not in remission but i'm still doing okay. and the future doesn't look so bad right now. >> i remember a story you told president obama when he first took office. you said you were a boxer as a young man and you said i wasn't the fastest and i wasn't the strongest. but i knew how to take a punch. >> yeah. that's for sure. >> that is kind of the story of

your life. and this is part of it. >> part of it was, david, my nose. i had a great nose for fighting. there is very little nose in my nose so i have been hit in the face so many times. i have never, ever had a bloody nose. >> you've been knocked out in other ways in life. >> yeah. i've been knocked down. >> and losing elections please and a range of other things. so that may have something to do with the fact that you're sitting here with me today. >> you know -- >> after that bad diagnosis. >> the last time i ran, i said the bastards left me alone i probably wouldn't run again but they thought i couldn't win so i ran and i beat them. >> how do you hope you'll be remembered? >> david, i have five children. i have 19 grandchildren. i want those children and grandchildren to understand what a love affair i've had with my little wife. she is the most wonderful human being. i'm sure there have been marriages as happy as ours, but

none happier. i am still in love with my wife after having been married 60 years as i was when we were teenagers when we met. >> more important than any of your public accomplishments. >> oh, yeah. that's all i want is people to remember that he had a great marriage and that was a good example for others. and i hope that is the case because i've had a love affair with this little woman for a long, long time. >> you know, one of the things that was your signature, you would finish a conversation and you would be gone. but you never -- >> president obama still jokes about that, hanging up on him. but here is the way it is. i'm not much for small talk. conversation was over. we'd done our business. there is no need to talk anymore. i would just say -- >> not even a good-bye. >> no. not most of the time. the conversation was over. >> well, in keeping with that tradition, senator, i'm not going to say good-bye. i'm just going to say thank you

and i look forward to seeing you down the line. >> david, thank you for being a friend. >> for more of the conversation you can visit luminary podcast.com. you are live in the cnn newsroom. i'm in for ana cabrera. now, he is the other man at the center of the impeachment saga. the president's personal attorney rudy guiliani. today he told cnn that he is not aware of being under any sort of investigation despite reports that federal prosecutors are looking closely at his work with ukraine. that of course is the country where he was trying to dig up dirt on joe biden for his boss the president. at one point even president trump seemed to be trying to distance himself from guiliani. listen. >> we