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tv   At This Hour With Kate Bolduan  CNN  October 9, 2019 8:00am-9:00am PDT

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and accessoriesphones for your mobile phone. like this device to increase volume on your cell phone. - ( phone ringing ) - get details on this state program call or visit . this is cnn breaking news. hello, everyone, i'm erica hill in for kate baud win. thanks for joining us this hour. we do begin with breaking news,
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a major escalation in the middle east. the urky's president just announcing turkey's troops have launched an offensive in syria. >> that attack coming days after president trump announced u.s. troops were pulling out of that same area, the border between turkey and syria. >> that left kurdish forces key to defend themselves. the kurds are now reporting turkish warplanes are carrying out air strooics in civilian areas. cnn chief clarissa ward is near the border in syria. she joins us now on the phone. what can you tell us about what's happening there on the ground? >> reporter: erica, let me try to paint a picture for you. we are outside a town which has been bombarded steadily for the last few hours. the air is thick with black smoke and we are in a massive traffic jam. we are talking hundreds if not thousands of vehicles full of civilians who are panicking, who
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are desperate to get out of this town, who are afraid for their lives and don't know where they're going tonight. it is a chaotic scene and from what we've heard, it is artillery used not airstrikes in this town but artillery, it was a steady stream of artillery. we saw at least six black plumes of thick, thick smoke. we saw a building on fire. now as i said, the streets just choked thick with cars, families. i saw a very elderly woman who had difficulty walking, who was hoisted up by a man and carried along the roadside. this is a truly desperate situation, erica, and important for our viewers to remember that these people, many of them, are if kurds, who have been the most steadfast allies that the u.s. has had in the fight against isis, earic ka. >> just one other point that i want to hit home on, you
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mentioned clarissa, you are stuck in this traffic jam with hundreds of thousands of cars, civilians. they don't know where they're going. >> reporter: no, they don't. we have actually gone up to a number of people women on flatbed trucks weeping, carrying their jung children. the air is so thick with smoke it's a hazard to breathe it. i asked them, listen, where are you going? are you afraid? they said, of course, we are afraid, we are afraid for our children. we have no idea where we are going, we have no idea where we will be able to sleep. more importantly, going forward, we have no idea what this turkish military operation is going to look like, what it's going to do to the life that we have known. >> and that is, of course, the great unknown that so many people are trying to figure out, both civilians and folks in governments around the world. thank you. we will check in for further development. joining us, cnn analyst, a
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senior fellow on the council of foreign relations, he served as a foreign adviser for several republican campaigns, max, as clarissa said, she is hearing it on the ground. frankly, the world is wondering, how does this play out? where does it end? >> it's not going to have a happy ending. that's a great tragedy, a humanitarian catastrophe on the ground. the underlie the point, these are allies being slaughtered. these are the kurds who fought and bled and died to defeat isis with american help. so that u.s. troops would not have to do the bleeding aed fighting and dying on the ground. now, president trump for reasons i think remain mysterious on sunday decided to betray our allies the kurds with president erdogan of turkey, although he is a part of nato, he is no friend of america. he is somebody who is playing footsie with the iranian, the russians. he was kicked out of the
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program, without any planning or consultation with the pentagon with our armed forces, president trump decided to betray our kurdish allies who had been told repeatedly by our troops on the ground we would stand with them. you have to wonder at this point, who would ever believe america ever again when we say we will stand with you. >> that's a point you make in your most recent columns, you say this plays into putin's hand and the messaging of putin, hey, we're a much better ally because you can't count on the u.s. >> this plays into the hands of our enemies and betrays our friends and underscores what putin says is we're not a reliable ally. this will be a gift to russia to iran, to bashar assad. the kurds have to turn to somewhere, they will wind up turning to the iranians, the russian, to assad. this is a great geopolitical gift to our enemies. >> there is an isis factor. part of what the president said, hey, turkey, you are responsible for these isis fighters we have
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been watching. reality, it's the kurds who are taking care of that. we have 10,000 isis fighters, 60,000 family members. what happens to them now? >> well, that's a great question. >> that is 21 of the great unknowns here. one thing is for sure, there was no planning done by the united states to handle this matter in an orderly way, because president trump just sprung it on the pentagon and on the world. we don't know what's going to happen. but the kurds have been saying, they're going to have to defend themselves, so they have to pull away forces from guarding these prisons where you have these 10,000 isis fighters. some of the worst fighters, including 2,000 foreigners. there is a good possibility they could break out. this could lead to a resurgence of isis. this is not only a catastrophe for american honor and a catastrophe for american interest if it leads to the revival of this terrible terrorist group we have been fighting for years. >> to your point, senator lindsey graham an hour-and-a-half ago, quote, this move assures the re-emergence of
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isis. we are hearing from liz cheney, it's sickening, turkish groups are russian backed forces from the south. isis fighters attacking raqqa. it's impossible to understand why donald trump is having america's allies to be slaughtered from isis. to your point that is because this is politically safe. does any of this out spokenness, the disgust, the concern on their part, does that is there a chance any of that could have an influence on the president? because we saw a little play out a few months ago when we saw he announced all troops were coming out of syria? >> there is no question he could change his mind when he announced we will pull our troops out of syria. secretary mattis resigned and bolton got him to scale back that announcement. it may be too late at this
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point. the turks are already in there, they're already fighting. they're already killing. so it may be too late to unscramble this omelet. >> this is definitely the beginning of something. >> ugly. >> something ugly. we will be watching it closely. appreciate it, max, as always. back here at home, president trump flat out refusing to cooperate with the impeachment inquiry. the white house introducing a scathing letter to congressional democrats which reads in part, quote, your unpresident es departmenteding a versus left the president with no choice. president trump and his administration cannot par tis pa it in your partisan and unconstitutional inquiry under these circumstances. speaker nancy pelosi firing back, warning efforts to quite hide the truth of the president's abuse of power will be regarded as further evidence of obstruction of justice. she writes, mr. president, you are not above the law. you will be held accountable. cnn sarah westwood is at the white house. sarah, what are you hearing this morning on the heels of this? >> reporter: well, erica, the
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white house is making clear it's intention to stonewall the house democrat's impeachment inquiry. a source says the white house is preparing for an escalating skirmish over documents and testimonies related to that now infamous ukraine call. also the source says the white house has all options on the table for dealing with this impeachment inquiry. now the white house is gearing up for this legal battle, cnn is learning the white house is expected to bring on former gop congressman trey gowdy to serve as the president's outside legal counsel. gowdy was here at the white house yesterday meeting with acting chief of staff nick mulvaney. we are learning behind the scenes how white house officials scrambled to try to keep the contents of that ukraine phone call secret as concern was spreading through the white house. a source says one white house official described that call and the aftermath crazy, frightening, saying they were shaken by what they heard on that call. but this morning president trump misrepresenting that white house
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official's kempblts i want to fact check a part of the tweet. he said the squad whistleblower before knowing i was going to release the exact transcript stated that my call with the ukrainian president was crazy and frightening. that was from a white house official whose views were memorialized by the whistleblower. >> that memo given to the inspector general. the president goes on to 22 et that the whistleblower and others spoke before seeing the transcripts. now, this is a sort of a theme of a false attack he has been launching claiming this person or now people did not have first-hand knowledge of the call in a rare public statement. the inspector general for the intelligence community had come out and said that the whistleblower did, in fact. have first-hand knowledge, daring house speaker nancy pelosi to have hold a formal impeachment vote. >> sarah westwood, with the always important fact check,
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thank you. coming up, will this defiance from the white house force democrats to change strategy? could they be forced to hold a vote on impeachment noered to move forward? plus new details on rourudy gui and his involvement in ukraine, was he the gate keeper when it comes to a foreign government? bend at the waist! i'm tryin'! keep it up. you'll get there. whoa-hoa-hoa! 30 grams of protein, and one gram of sugar. ensure max protein. but one blows them all out of the water. hydro boost with hyaluronic acid to plump skin cells so it bounces back... neutrogena® and for body... hydro boost body gel cream. performance comes in lots of flavors... ♪ (dramatic orchestra)
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. president trump is dramatically escalating his fight with house democrats over the impeachment inquiry. his lawyer from a scathing 8-page letter to democrats saying in no uncertain terms, the administration will not cooperate with what it calls an illegitimate investigation. senior congressional correspondent manu raju is on capitol hill. so what's the reaction from the hill to this letter to the white house? >> reporter: well, democrats are signaling to me that they're not going to threat this process drag out. we're not going to see what we've seen all year with white house refusal to comply with democratic subpoenas that they've gone to court, they have end games and seemingly endless letter writing and some of these court fights are still waiting for their final ruling, former white house counsel don mcgahn on a separate matter.
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now they're warning if the white house continues to refuse to comply it can be rolled into an article of impeachment against the president of the united states for obstructing congress and look no further, when nancy pelosi wrote last night to the white house eroding in a responsible white house letter warning that the white house' refusal, should be warned that continued efforts to hide the truth of the president's abuse of power from the american people will be regarded as further evidence of obstruction. adam schiff the house intelligence chairman also warning that they will now put up with a prolonged fight with the white house saying they will consider as potential grounds for impeachment in the past. yesterday he tweeted the white house says there is nothing wrong with pressuring a foreign government to intervene in a foreign election. they will not cooperate unless it's on their terms. they mean the president is above
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the law. the constitution says otherwise. so you are going to see is this back and forth and the ultimate question is, will they get any more witnesses? will they get any more evidence? what will the democrats do? they say they can still move forward with impeaching the president this fall, erica. >> we know, too, that both the allies for the president and white house are impeaching if necessary in the house. what is the likelihood today of that actually hang? >> reporter: very slim at the moment. because the democrats believe that they really don't need to have a formal vote to authorize an impeachment inquiry in order to move forward. even though it's happened in the past, there is nothing that requires them from doing that. nevertheless, it would also create some political problems for some democrats who don't want to cast that vote. also, it would eat up some floor time because they would have to get a resolution, get their members on board, have a floor debate. republicans would argue they should get subpoena power like minority parties have done in
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past proceedings. all of which is an argument and fight the democrats don't want to have. they'd rather focus on the substance, the allegation of what the president has done. they believe this is simply a distraction. but if they ultimately are forced to do that, we'll see at the moment, that's not what the leadership wants to do if they decide whether or not to impeach the president in the coming weeks here. >> thank you. joining me now cnn foreign correspondent abbey philip and a former fbi special agent, abby, as we look at all of this, in terms of what we are hearing too from the messaging from the white house, is there any reason to believe that if, in fact, the house -- let's say democrats decide to hold this vote. if they did hold this vote, would it change anything in terms of how the white house plans to play ball or not? >> well, i don't necessarily think so. i think that was the part of the letter that was not written explicitly in the letter but is implied in everything that's in it. they are not saying that they
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will actually cooperate with this probe, no matter what democrats do. which is one of the reasons why some people have looked at this letter and wondered, so what's the argument here? is there any circumstance under with i the president and the white house would provide documents and depositions to the house of representatives in any kind of impeachment inquiry and it's not clear what the white house' position is on that? they want to leave their options open to continue to stonewall even if there is a vote. so i think that's one of the reasons why democrats are saying we're not going to have our hands forced into a vote until we have all the facts on the table. >> until they know they get something out of it, right. in terms of -- i want to step back a bit and look through this letter a bit. there are a few things call on me. i want your expertise. the white house says the president is being denied due process and having access to charges. but this is the inquiry. this is the investigation phase. do they have any legal standing on that point?
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>> no this -- their letter is a complete confusion on what the constitution outlines. the himpeachment phase is analogous in criminal terms to the grand jury investigative phase. if you know criminal procedure, that's not a stage where defendants get to go in and question witnesses. it's happening secretly. prosecutors are gathering evidence in order to decide whether or not to bring charges. in the house inquiry, the equivalent would be the articles of impeachment. once that happens and they vote on that, that's when it goes to a trial in the senate. that's when the protections for the person who is being accused, in this case the president, would kick in. he should be allowed to question witnesses, call his own evidence, et cetera. but i'll add here, erica, he does have the opportunity to be able to present exculpatory evidence in the form of witnesses, you know, who either were on this calm or knew about it and yet he is preventing
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those people from doing so. so that kind of tells you something right there. >> i'm glad you mentioned the confusing in the messaging. abby, i would argue that is a point of this letter, right, is to confuse the public, because impeachment is confusing, is it an inquiry, what are the articles? all those things get jumbled under the umbrella of impeachment. they're very different. >> it's an effort to get everyone bogged down in process. just like this focus on the whistle proceeder, himself, which, frankly, is much less important considering we have the primary documents. we have the transcripts of the calm. we have these text messages that were shared between senior officials in the trump administration discussing this. so this is a part of the strategy to avoid talking about what the actual debate is about, which is about the president's behavior. i don't know, though, how effective that is. voters are typically not moved by process considerations. and so, it's a little bit of a
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thin argument. but i think it tells you about how much of a struggle this has been for the white house and for republicans. they're having a hard time coming up with a good strategy that will protect the president. protect them, themselves, politically. >> just to sort of piggyback off of that. what's fascinating is in the beth letter and in the letter from the republicans, it's not refuting the basis we're talking about here, the facts, which are corroborated not just by documents but comments the president, himself, made, this letter was knit picking process, beyond saying the president's call was completely appropriate, there was no defense of the president's behavior at all. >> no and i think that they are going to struggle on that front. simply because it comes more and more to light that there is an expanding circle of people who are incredibly concerned about this and that that concern translated into efforts to conceal the call. which kind of suggests that they
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knew that there was something untoward about it. you know, i think that abby is exactly right. the prima facial facie case is right there. they've let go of the goods and the white house has now lost a lot of its leveraging power in that regard and i suspect that they may not have realized it when they did that. but, i think that the house now essentially has a rebuttable presumption of an abuse of power. >> appreciate it. thank you both. just ahead, new details about the president's personal attorney and his evolvement in the ukraine policy and dealing with ukraine, period. did the president use rudy guiliani to bypass official channels? and will guiliani soon testify on capitol hill? hey there people eligible for medicare.
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guiliani. when it comes to dealings with ukraine. two sources telling cnn as far back as may the president essentially made guiliani the gate keeper for determining how the administration would deal with ukraine's new president. cnn national security reporter kylie atwood joins us from the state department with details on a meeting where the president may clear how much clout guiliani would have. kylie, what have you learned? >> reporter: yes, we're learning new details about this meeting that happened in late may with president trump, his ambassador to the eu, gordon sunland and the special representative to the ukraine, curt volker who since quit his job and u.s. secretary of energy rick perry. during that meeting, these three u.s. officials came to president trump and they were hoping to convince him to have a meeting with president zelensky of ukraine because they came back from his operation. they thought ukraine was on a good track headed to take on
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some of the corruption intern allegely. but what they found during that meeting was president trump wasn't as opened as they had hoped and he told them to deal with rudy guiliani, to circumvent the traditional official channels and to deal with his personal lawyer when it came to these discussions about ukraine-u.s. relations going forward. and one of the folks who was familiar with that meeting at the white house in may said that the message was if they can satisfy rudy, they can satisfy the president. essentially, that these u.s. officials had to satisfy rudy guiliani in order to get president trump to engage with the ukrainians on the policy side. >> meantime, of course, senator lindsey graham saying he plans to invite guiliani to testify on ukraine. has guiliani responded yet? >> reporter: yes. so, senator graham wants to hear from rudy guiliani. he is worried about the reports of corruption, that he says are still ongoing in ukraine, not necessarily about the biden
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issue, but rudy guiliani has not been clear if he's going to actually go forth and talk to congress about this yet. he had an interview last night, listen to what he had to say. >> i have to weigh that with my client and the other lawyers involved. it's not a unitary decision. what decision i make may affect the other decisions. i mean, i would love to testify and give you a half hour to point out biden inc., four decades of crime. i'd love to do it. >> reporter: rudy guiliani making it clear that the ball is in president trump's court to decide if he will allow rudy guiliani to speak to congress. of course, the ball is also in the white house court when it comes to the other u.s. officials who congress wants to hear from. ambassador yovanovi were is supposed to go up to the hill on friday. we don't know if she is given clearing to do so.
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>> we will wait and see. thank you. coming up, president trump defines impeachment. he says he is strengthening the case for obstruction. so where does it all go from here? saturdays happen. pain happens. aleve it. aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol. when pain happens, aleve it. all day strong. you're smart,eat you already knew that. but it's also great for finding the perfect used car. you'll see what a fair price is and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you're even smarter. this is truecar.
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the president is obstructing, obstructing congress from getting the facts that we need. he has said it's an abuse of power to act in this way. >> the that ill year to produce this witness. the failure to produce these documents, we consider yet additional strong evidence of obstruction of the constitutional functions of congress, a co-equal branch of government. >> as you just heard there, democrats calling president trump's refusal to cooperate in the impeachment inquiry obstruction. this on the heels of the 68thing letters of the white house branding the inquiry unconstitutional and illegal bid to overthrow the 2016 election. so what is the next move for democrats? joining me to discuss, a democratic congressman from pennsylvania. good to have you with us this morning. the white house made it very clear they do not intend to play ball. no witnesses, no documents. we should point out, of course, this is a move we seen before.
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what does this do for democrats? what is the next step? >> yeah. first, let's take a moment to reflect the fact that what president trump and his administration is saying they're above the law and congress is no longer a co-equal branch of government and this administration is going to run rough shod over the constitution of the united states so that in and of itself in my view could be and should be one of the articles of impeachment. now in terms of what we do next, fortunately, a lot of the underlying facts of this case are already known. the one time the white house actually was transparent in this in releasing their summary of the call, not even the full transcript, which i still think we feed to get. but at least their summary of it was so bad and so indicting and clearly showed a quid pro quo. clearly showed putting the national security of the united states secondary to the president's primary concern of getting help for his entire campaign.
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in my view, we have enough facts but in and of themselves. if we can call the witnesses of the people who are also on that call, the people who gave information to the intelligence community inspector general, that to me would be a logical next step to get that confirmation. then from there in my view, we would have enough in order to vote on impeachment. >> so calling those witness, as we know and hearing from them two different things. these days in washington. a short time ago, your colleague, congressman garamendi was on saying we would use the full power of congress to hold people, if, in fact, witnesses were refusing to answer questions, essentially going to inherent contempt. would you agree with that move? >> yeah, i did hear that. staying with my friend from california. inherent contempt hasn't been used since 1935. i do believe congress should explore that option. now the idea of imprisoning people in the capitol basement i
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think has a few practical problems. however, the one aspect of it that appeals to me is the ability to levy $25,000 daily fines. i think that's something we need to seriously look at. bus what is at is that sick not just the facts in these matter. but whether or not going forward congress will continue to be a co-equal branch of government and whether or not congress will have the ability to exercise oversight over the executive. >> that is a key constitutional principle that is now at stake. >> what are you hearing from folks in your district? >> you know, it's very interesting. i represent proud to represent my hometown of philadelphia for most of the last several years when i was back home at events such as this past week, we mostly hear bread and butter issues, prescription drugs, i don't have all healthcare costs, the need to get wages up, especially in working class and blue collar jobs. this weekend was very different.
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i held a ton of privacy fairs around my district to crack down on identities theft. i was really struck how many people brought up impeachment to me and were absolutely convinced we needed to go down this path. >> that really is different than what i've experienced over the previous three years. >> when you say they were convinced you need to go down this path. >> that is a path of inquiry, right? the question we saw in a poll do you support impeachment or impeachment inquiry and the possible removal of the president, those are very different? >> they are different questions. although, yesterday, we had three different polls released that all showed support for the impeachment inquiry now well over 50%. just three weeks ago, that was below 40. then a few of the polls i saw asked the next question, do you support impeachment with conviction and removal? the numbers were a little bit lower. not that much lower. >> that is a real change from where we were a few weeks ago.
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i think we need to acknowledge that. >> before i let you go, you serve on the bipart saisan seri caucus. this serves many space for us as we watch this we heard from lindsey graham as well adam kensinger speaking out against the president. lindsey graham saying these restraints are leading to the emergence of isis. people speaking out against the president in syria seemed to have an impact. do you think the same thing could happen this time around? >> i hope so. seeing the scenes are secondening. adam and i are the co-chairs and co-founders of the free syria caucus. we have personally met time and time again with the activists on this issue. people who have literally risked their lives on the ground to bring out pictures of what is going on. the brave white helmets that rush in when assad's brutal
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regime is firing on them. the united states owes the kurds and those who are fighting for a livable free syria so much better and what president trump has done is really sickening. it betrays our allies and betrays american values. >> congressman boyle, i appreciate you today. thank you. >> thank you. just ahead, scaling back, democratic candidate bernie sanders says he is changing the pace of his campaign after a heart attack. could it also change his standing in this race. more on that next. you've tried so many moisturizers...
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democratic presidential candidate senator bernie sanders is taking a break from the campaign trail, announcing he is scaling back campaign events after suffering a heart attack last week. cnn's ryan nobles is live in burlington, vermont. so, ryan, what else are we hearing from the campaign this morning? >> reporter: well, essentially, erica, this came after bernie sanders made a trip to his cardiologist yesterday. remember, he had a heart attack a week ago. after he returned from that
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visit to the cardiologist, he spoke to reporters a little bit and talked to us about how things can >> i certainly intend to be actively campaigning. i think we're going to change the nature of the campaign a bit, make sure that i have the strength to do what i have to do. i don't know if there's anybody who did more rallies than we have done. we're probably not going to do three or four rallies a day, do two or do other events as well. >> reporter: sanders pointed out that while he was going to scale things back that he was already moving at a pretty incredible pace, far exceeding what many of his democratic rivals were doing. he started to think that's not necessary and now in light of this scare with his health, it would make sense to dial things back a bit. that doesn't mean he's getting out of the race.
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he still has more than $30 million to spend in television ads to get his name out across the country. it just means they're going to be doing things a bit differently. there's a different perception among voters, particularly because age was already an issue for sanders. he just turned 78. he would be 79 on the day he was inaugur inaugurated. president trump is in his 70s. elizabeth warren in her late 60s. of course joe biden as well in his 70s. this is an issue across the board. you add the health issues along with it to sanders. that does complicate the picture for him a little bit. i asked him about that. i specifically said, do you think this is going to change voters' minds? he said they'll look at the totality of his record. this will include the heart attack, but also he's been a fighter his entire career.
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>> in terms of that record and who senator bernie sanders is known to be, just put in perspective for us how unusual it is for him to admit he is deciding to scale back? because that is something. >> reporter: you're absolutely right about that. the fact that he had such an impressive pace before was a point of pride for sanders. i was talking to some reporters here in vermont yesterday that have covered him all the way back to his days as the mayor of burlington. the fact that he would always be out there was something he was known for. it was a part of his legend. that was what his 2016 campaign was about as well, never taking his foot off the gas pedal. for him to come out and say it was necessary for him to do so was significant. that's why his campaign is trying to put that in perspective, that the standard for sanders is perhaps a little bit different than it is for some other candidates. his campaign manager gave me a
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statement, quote, as bernie said, we're going to have an active campaign. instead of a breakneck series of events that lap the field, we are going to keep a marathoner's pace. >> ryan nobles in burlington for us. thank you. coming up, in the dark. california's largest utility company shutting off power for hundreds of thousands of residents. why and just how long will this last? ( ♪ ) only tylenol® rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. they release medicine fast, for fast pain relief. tylenol®.
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what a morning in california. tens of thousands of people waking up without power. in fact, the state's largest power company says it's shutting off electricity for nearly 800,000 customers in northern and central california. pg&e says it's unprecedented but it's needed to prevent power lines from sparking wildfires. so how long do these power outages last? >> reporter: some officials are predicting that some residents might be in the dark for days. everything here effectively depends on the weather conditions, the combination of
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gusty winds, low humidity could create the conditions for potentially catastrophic fires. marin county where we are standing right now is one of the more vulnerable areas. it is a densely populated area. it is expected to have very strong gusting wind as we get later into the evening. residents here have actually been without power since midnight. the shopping center we're standing at right now would normally be bustling this time of day. there's very few cars behind me. a lot of the businesses here have effectively shut down. this is an unprecedented shutdown by pg&e. 34 of the state's counties are going dark. classes in at least one major university and several districts have been suspended temporarily. the airports are open but there's a lot of traffic headaches with traffic lights going dark. residents understand this is unfortunately the new normal for california. this state has been hit by
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several deadly devastating wildfires. we saw one of the most dangerous ones taking place last november. pg&e was thought to have caused that with faulty equipment so these blackouts are intended to prevent a similar disaster. thanks so all of you for joining us today. "inside politics" with john king starts right now. ♪ thank you. welcome to "inside politics." i'm john king. turkey launches its promised military assault against the kurds in northern syria. leading republicans accuse president trump of abandoning a key ally and predict it will lead to an isis resurgence. one of spoker pelo speaker pelo democrats

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