a little something called instinct. been using it for years. yeah, that's what i'm afraid of. he knows exactly where we're going. my whole body is a compass. oh boy... the my account app makes today's xfinity customer service simple, easy, awesome. not my thing. this is "gps" the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. today on the show, an exclusive, two former secretaries of state, one from either side of the aisle. madeleine albright and colin powell. on the president's phone call with his ukrainian counterpart. the whistle-blower's memo.

>> it's vicious, vicious. and the state of american politics today. and cracking the code on kiev. ann applebaum is back with us to help us understand who is what on the ukrainian side of the story. first my take. donald trump finally got to see the kind of military parade he longed for. unfortunately for him, it was in beijing, not washington. you'll recall that in 2018 trump directed the pentagon to put on a lavish show of arms to demonstrate america's might. when news of the costs got out, an estimated $92 million, he scuttled the plan and settled for a far more modest fourth of july event. xi jinping suffered no -- complete with hundreds of tanks

floats and planes and a nuclear-capable missile that could evade u.s. missile defenses. he shouted, hello comrades. they shouted back, hello, leader. president xi has made a striking break from the past. they have increased the state's role in the economy, tightened split cal -- and embraced maoism. they want conducted interviews and concluded that some do instead have a hankering for the good old days. the scholars described this as a reflective nostalgia for an earlier, simpler time before the breakneck pace of growth and globalization created a whirlwind of change. to put it another way, some chinese yearn to make china

great again. the revived celebration of mao-era ideology songs and doctrines have truck up westerners as bizarre. mao tse-tung killed and displace ten of millions of chinese people, but it's been recognized that an embrace of nostalgia can be useful. a central aspect of china's maoist revival has been the return to a cult of personality. xi has abolished term limits, established his own thought as comparable to mao's own ideas and generally dispessed with the idea of collective leadership. all of this marxist stunning reversal, he created the reforms that created the economy, and he openly acknowledged mao's

greatest failure, including the great leap forward and the cultural refusal lose. deng blamed mao, and explained that none of this would be permitted in the new china. but president xi has ignored deng xiaoping's warnings. in fact, it's a vast complex society going through great transformation. xi is trying to hold it together and maintain control over a dynamic society, without provoking a backlash. that's why, with all the military power on display, xi has been wary about using it. it societies confidence enough to cry sail leaders, mock military parades, and look candidly at all aspects, obvious

loose messy, chaotic and divided, but perhaps in the long run, they have a deeper resilience and stability. for more, go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "the washington post" column this week. let's get started. ♪ it's a rare pleasure to interview two of america's finest elder statespeople at once, but that's exactly the opportunity i had this week when i sat down with colin powell and madeleine albright. both served as secretary of state, powell under president bush, and albright under president clinton. i was invite to do interview them. let 'begin with general powell talking about the actual multiin

american politics surrounding the whistle-blower and that phone calls between the preside presidents of america and ukraine. >> we have this situation in washington, with the preliminary investigation being done by the house of representatives under mrs. pelosi. you just got to ask yourself, where does it all go? it's going to go the constitutional way. she's following the constitution and the law, and she's created an organization within the house of representatives to look into these things. that's what we ought to do, but it's hard to look into it when the other side in the white house is cursing out everybody, calling a member of congress a traitor, calling a guy who wrote this that there's something wrong with him. he didn't write it. had he had a lawyer write it for him, or he's a spy. no, he's not a spy. he's an intelligence officer somewhere in the united states government who sat down and

wrote this out. he didn't slip it to a newspaper. he didn't go on television and discuss it. he put it into the system like he was supposed to do. >> you think he's a patriot. >> sure he is. any reason he's not a patriot? i used to see some of these things when they came in over the transon, the objection means. i don't think there's anything to suggest that he's doing anything that's improper. as you know, his paper has not come out after going through the channels. he didn't break free and go to the pres. he let the system handle itself. the paper he put out has a lot of consistency with what the white house put out. so what we need to do is get in inquiry done as quickly as possible and let's stop screaming at everybody and calling people traitors, calling them spies, using all these names of degradation when all we're trying to do is find the

answers. let's cooperate with each other in this in the consequence and get an answer and move on. >> do you think nancy pelosi is doing the right thing? >> absolutely. i think it's very interesting in listening to her when she talked about this. i thought she was very measured, ser, talked about the constitution, and saw it as a process. i think it wasn't easy. i think nothing is easy in terms of making a decision like that, but i think she respects the institution. i think we both have talked about the importance of the institution and the constitution. there is -- it's set up in a way that congress has a responsibility here. i think the question is, the one you asked -- what was this phone call about? it is possible that a president will make a mistake in talking to some other leader on an issue

that is state managed, which is why in fact you have other people on the phone and you can say you might want to have worded that differently and have somebody follow up. this had nothing to do with state business as far -- and nobody kind of said anything about it except this man or woman that has been the whistle-blow whistle-blower. >> colin, what do you think the republican party's responsibility is? you're a lifelong republican -- >> i wouldn't quite say that. >> let me put it differently. the republican party desperately wanted you to be the presidential candidate in -- >> that's not true, either. some of us did. >> you were a very important figure in the republican party -- >> yes. >> i'm actually right. i'm not going to argue the case, but as such an important republican, do you worry that the party is putting party or

maybe even trump before country? >> let me start by saying, i had no split affiliation during my first 35 years in government, in the army. as a career military officer, i had no party. it was only when i left and there was attention being giving to me about running for politics that i said, no, that's not me. i identified myself as a republican, but i also made it clear to people i was a republican who was ronald reagan's national security adviser. i was a republican who worked for george herbert walker bush and worked for george w. bush. i'm a moderate republican who believes we should have a strong foreign policy, strong defense policy, but we have to look out for our people. we ought to work hard for making sure we're one country/one team. on that basis, i call myself a republican, but in the state of virginia you're really nothing. you can be anything you want any day of the week. but to answer your question, the

republican party has got to get a grip on itself right now. the republican leaders and members of the congress, both senate and the house, are holding back, because they're terrified of what will happen to any one of them if they speak out. will they lose a primary? i don't know why that's such a disaster, but will they lose a primary? so they need to get a grip, and when they see things that are not right, they need to say something about t our foreign policy is a sham abilities right now, in my humble judgment. i see things happening that are hard to understand. a couple weeks ago the president put a circle around southeast alabama, saying it's going to get hit by a hurricane. they put it on top of the meteorolo meteorology cal prediction. and in my time, her time, one of us would have gone to the president and said you screwed

up, we have to fix it. you know what they did at this time? they ordered the commerce department to go and back up whatever the president mis-said. this is not the way the country is supposed to run, and congress is one of the institutions that should be doing a part about this. the media has a role to play. we all have a role to play. we've got to remember -- [ applause ] -- we've got to remember all of these pieces are part of our government, executive branch, supreme court, and if the. the constitution starts with "we the people, not me the president. next i'll ask them about the foreign policy of this scandal engulfing america, about ukraine and its struggle with its bear of a neighbor, russia.

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full of... woo! it's fresh and filling. this bowl is full of good. so you can be too. try a new baja or mediterranean warm grain bowl today. panera: food as it should be. back flow to my interview with former secretaries of state colin powell and mall lynn albright. i talked to them this week in new albany, ohio as part of the community's jefferson series of lectures. the whole scandal of the last few weeks, at the heart is a country, ukraine, desperately trying to create its own independence, desperately trying

to survive against a fairly constant barrage of attacks. >> most cunning don't change their geological positions, but russia did. they are being run by a kgb officer. he has a plan, which is how to undermine the democracies in central and eastern europe, in other places. i think we have to be aware of that. ukraine is the example of it where it actually became taking land, and the question is how we react to it. they also are expanding their influence in the middle east. all of a sudden they are really players there. i think that it was a gift to them in the national security strategy to make them equivalent to china, but they really are out there militarizing information and trying to divide us from our allies, and i am

concerned about what they're doing. when the president froze the military aid to ukraine, you know that struggle. do you think the ukrainians worried that something had changed, that american foreign policy had changed, or they accept the president's argument as just trying to get the europeans to give them money as well. >> i think it's interesting. i have to say, i thought the obama administration didn't do enough about ukraine, frankly, so when the trump people started talking about doing something to ukraine, i thought it was the right thing to do. it's very hard to tell how the ukrainians sbempted it, but i do think they thought they were back in the soup without any help. i think the russians are using a variety of way toss undermine the stability of the ukrainians and generally. and i think we need to watch out for that. the fact that the president thinking he can play with it in that particular way is what i

think is dangerous. >> i certainly agree with madeline in respect to what russia is doing, but it's mostly soft little touches. military stuff in syria and other places, but what they are doing with cybersecurity, what they are doing with those tools is to gain influence around europe and every place they can in europe. that's what the chinese have been doing with the belt and road niche tissue, but that's an commission giant that they're putting in place, and to go from china all the way through the he channel into london. so they are doing things that are exciting, that are attracting people, buying influence, some of them are going broke with the chinese deal they get, but nevertheless what is our equivalent to something like that? we're cutting foreign aid. we're cutting foreign aid, because, you know, they don't contribute enough. yes, they do. or they don't give anything to ukraine. you look at the numbers, our

european friends and the imf and others have given more to ukraine than we have. so we've got to see this thing realistic and not always think there's a war coming, but at the same time be ready for it. i always like to be ready for anything that comes along, but at the same time let's use our common sense to see what is good or not good. what is the thing that gives you the most hope when you look around the world, america, today? what is the thing you hold on to? >> in my book -- and by the way there's no speech or book ever written that doesn't quote robert frost. in my book i say -- the older i am, the younger are my teachers. and my hope is the young people. i think they really are very forward-leaning, looking -- greta, the little swedish girl -- what guts it took to go to the u.n. and tell them what jerks they are.

and i know my students i find very interesting and those work hard. i would like to make sure that the young people are engaged, they don't just think it will happen, that their smarts and their capabilities. what gives me hope is the next generation. >> i have confidence in the american people. i have seen bad times in this country. this is not the worst time i have lived there. i still think good being to vietnam the first time, president kennedy was killed the day i came home from my first tour. four years later bobby kennedy was killed and martin luther king was killed. we had race riots, drugs, all kinds of things. we were in a recession. if that wasn't bad enough, the vice president of the united states resigned in disgrace. if that wasn't enough, the president of the united states resigned in disgrace, and russia

and china were saying this is exactly what lenin would happen, but we returned to our bases. in came gerald ford, a simple mid westerner, and he sort of stabilized us. he used to trip down steps a lot, but we loved it. he's just like me, he was one of us. he stabilized the country, took a big risk by pardoning nixon, and then jimmy carter came along, some difficulties, but we were now moving in the right direction. then one of the presidents who i really treasure was ronald reagan. he just came in and said, it's morning in america, you know? >> it's morning again in america. >> and we said, yes! we sort of followed that. we picked up the batten again, and wimp going with it. but it's not what's happening now. everything is a war.

everything is a fight. everything is a disruption, congress can't get its work done. it gets disrupted and they could agree. this is a dangerous time for us, but i believe in the american people. they have more judgment than we sometimes give them credit for, and they will fix it. as long as they know where to go to help fix it and how to get it done. i think they have that inherent knowledge. so i believe in us. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, fareed. our thanks to the new albany foundation for hosting that event. next on gps we'll dig deeper into the eye crainian side of the story. ann applebaum is back to help us. saturdays happen.

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we learned much more about the ukraine side of the whistle-blower story. i'm joined by ann applebaum. she's the author of "red famine." anne, let me ask you first, why is ukraine playing such a big role? if you step back, what explains this, you know -- why are we -- why did ukraine become such a later part of this story? >> so it's very important to remember that donald trump brought ukraine into america politics when he hired paul manafort to be his campaign manager. paul lived in kiev, spent much

of the last decade in ukraine, and mostly identified with viktor yanukovych. he's the president who escaped the country following mass demonstrations. >> he was the pro-russian president. >> he was the pro-russian president, profoundly corrupt, who altered the constitution, who enriched hi family and his son who built a villa outside of kiev. when trump brought manafort in, he brought manafort's methods, tactics and friends. this is the -- this is really the origin, why ukraine became part of u.s. politics. do you think there's more to uncover here? poroshenko was involved in some of these issues.

he was asked by biden to fire the prosecutor and such? >> yes. so, yanukovych fell after these protests, poroshenko -- president poroshenko came to power after a free election. one of the things that poroshenko began to do is investigate the previous president, including his relationship with paul manafort. in 2018, those investigations were stopped. it hassaling assume, whether there was pressure from the trump administration or not, poroshenko stopped the investigation, because he didn't want to irritate president trump. and now president trump zelensky seems to have succumbed to the pressure and announced he will investigate -- or review the investigation of the company that joe biden's son worked at. >> yes. i mean, so one of the oddities of this whole stores is the

prosecutor who began investigating that company, stopped the investigation and stopped several other investigations, and joe biden, when he was the white house's envoy to ukraine, asked them, you know, was condemning the prosecutor who had refused to investigate his son's company and many other companies. so the reopening of the investigation may be a gesture to the trump white house certainly the ukrainian government does now feel under huge pressure to carry out that investigation, and to follow up on some of the trump's conspiracy theories about the mueller investigation and manafort and ukraine. you tweeted recently people shouldn't talk about this really as a story about ukrainian corruption, because it's really more about corruption in washington. >> absolutely. this is a story about a president abusing his office,

abusing his privilege as the head of the leader of u.s. foreign policy, to extract dirt from ukraine. this is a white house which -- niche the president is personalitily profiting off the fact he's president. his children are as well. the u.s. banks and u.s.-linked tax havens are one of the things that have made it possible for people to steal money and launder money from places like the ukraine. the united states is implicated in creating all kinds of corruption around the world. the fact that we refuse to stop it indicates that our system is deeply problematic as well. anne applebaum, always a pleasure. next on "gps" if you thought the power of labor unions died with jimmy hoffa, i will -- think again. when we come back. bend at the waist!

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labor has been plummeting near will 35% of american workers were unionized in 1954. in 2018, 10.5%. one of the reasons for the decline is historical as the longtime labor reporter steven greenhouse documents in "beaten down, worked up." ronald reagan delivered labor a crippling blow when his administration fired thousands of striking air traffic controllers, ushering in an era of union busting. why else has it declined? globalization and technology have rewired the american economy. the american economy is now focused on the service sector and unions tend to be less prismant there. they're also less prevalent among part-time and contract workers, and over the past two decades, the ranks of those have

swelled. all these trends transland to dwindling benefit for even full-timeworkers. perhaps that's why we're seeing a renewed vigor in one -- strikes. workers who have little to bargain with home court than their own labor. in 2018, the higher number of workers went on strike. what is different today, greenhouse told gps, is the organizers aren't simply advocating narrow interests. they're bargaining for the common social good. the prominent examples were the massive teacher strikes. ent were in red states, west virginia, oklahoma, arizona, places that might not have seemed overly favorable to unions, but teachers' salaries are abysmally low in those states. parents got behind them, and the

teachers did win modest raises. over the past few years organizers have staged strikes follow fast-food workers. now several states have enacted $15 minimum wage laws to be rolled out in the coming years. it's not just low-wage worker adjung professors, journalists, freelancer are joining unions. google employs more contract temps than full-time workers, a sore point for many employees. last week there was a small, but symbolic victory. about 80 contract workers in google's offices in pittsburgh voted to join a union, a rare feat for the tech sector, which has long been resistant to organized labor. the numbers are still small, but there's a lot of public support for workers. 64% of americans approve of unions today.

workers will only feel more secure in the future as yields on retirement funds fall and the cost of household expenses like pharmaceuticals rise. that means more segments of the middle class will be in trim, with a pendulum shift. all of this means a lot more people do start organizing. next on "gps" we go inside the u.s./china trade war with a man caught in the middle, singapore's prime minister. more towers. more coverage! it's a network that gives you ♪freedom from big cities, to small towns, we're with you. because life can take you almost anywhere, t-mobile is with you. no signal goes farther or is more reliable in keeping you connected.

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the split screen between mainland china and hong kong was was especially striking this week, as president xi paraded tanks and troops down the avenue of eternal peace in beijing to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the people's republic. there shall increasingly violent clashes in hong kong. one man watching both was the prime minister of singapore, my next guest. his city state is 7 a% ethnic chinese and keeps close tie with his china. singapore also has a close relationship with the united states. add in the fact it's the largest port in southeast asia, and you'll see the ongoing u.s./china trade war has po you th -- put that city state in a tough spot. i asked him how he feels about

hong kong. >> i feel very sorry for the situation hong kong is. they have a lot of talent, potential, right on the doorstep of china, and china has been a backstop for them, which enabled them to grow and overcome many economic rough spots, but at the same time they are part of china, and this change is not easy for the population to get used to. area they are also issues within hong kong which is quite fundamental issues like housing, fundamentally it's a question of hope for the future, for the young people, and these are not radically addressed, i think it's very difficult to overcome the problems. are you surprised the chinese government has not shut down the protests in hong kong using force? >> no, i don't think so.

i don't think the chinese government caused this to happen. i think that they are now confronted with this frog in their hands, and what do i do with it? i'm comfortable, it's a problem, but if i do the wrong thing, i may make things worse. i think they're aware of that. i think the chief executive has a very difficult task. >> singapore sits in an uneasy situation, you're close to china, your economy is increasingly influenced by china, yes you have been a very staunch american ally. how difficult is this trade war between the united states and china for you? >> we see that as a problem for us, but in fact it's a problem for the world. all of us have depended on stable u.s./china relations, and increasingly close u.s./china economic cooperation, investments, trades, as well as

flowing of talent and ideas. the way things are going now, that benign trend is being disrupted, and perhaps even turned around. i think that's bad for the world. >> you met with president trump, did you convey to him the fear i hear at least initially that american is withdrawing, by rejecting the trans-pacific partnership, is ceding the feed to china. does he get that? >> i don't think american is drawing. i don't think that's the perception. american is engaging china very, very actively. it's not a happy engagement right now, but it's not pulling out from the field. i think what we would like to see in asia is the united states engaged actively not only with china, but with also the other asian country, in southeast asia, east asia, even for that matter south asia, and cooperatively, constructively, to enable these countries to

have economic links with china at the same time as they have economic links and other links with the united states. if u.s./china relations are not stable and not amicable, it's much harder for all of us to do that. we will be pressured very hard to choose sides, and it will be a very painful choice. for most countries in asia, if they have to choose between american and china, what will they do? >> i think they will be very unhappy, because all of your ali alies, partners, australia, new zealand, tie lchbd, all treaty, have china as the biggest trading partner. if you ask them to prove, and therefore i must cut off my links, that puts them in a very difficult position. singapore is not an ally, but a close partner to the united

states, but we also have the biggest trading links with china, as well as the united states. what do you think the world of technology looks like if the united states continues on the path of the trump administration, which is banning huawei, fearing there's going to be, you know, the chinese technology will have within it a kind of espionage component. will you end up with a bipolar world of two technology systems? >> it was heading in that direction. i think if you take this attitude, it cannot stop with huawei, because it's basically you don't trust them, and you have reason to doubt whether everything can be taken at face value. by the same token, they are unable to trust you, and they will ask why do we allow your operating systems, your chips, your technology to rule our economy? and we become hostage to you. so if you're going this way, you must end up bifurcated across a

wide range of things, in terms of technology, in terms of systems, and the rest of us carrying two hand phones is the least of our problems. how difficult is it for you to navy gait? presumably again you'll be asked to choose -- >> yes, yes. and the americans are asking people to choose. they are asking their partners around the world to not choose the chinese systems. and what has the response been? >> if you look at the responses, some partners have agreed to cooperate with the americans, others have concluded that this is a very big ask. >> most have said no, right? >> they haven't quite put it like that. prime minister, a pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. and we will be right back. the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. humira can help stop the clock. prescribed for 15 years,

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as tens of thousands of hong kongers continue to protest this week, they were confronted with water cannons, tear gas, and for the first time the use of lethal force. the throngs are angry with their local government in hong kong and with the mainland chinese government. meanwhile, a new pugh research highlights how the rest of -- my question is -- which country views china the least favorably? stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. my book of the week is daniel markovitz's book "the

mer merit ocracy trap." he says it's a sense of exclusion and isolation for those on the outside. agree with him or not, this book will make you think hard. the answer to my gps challenge this week is d, japan, where 85% of those surveyed by thesh have an unfavorable view of china. this recent tension undercuts -- since then the leaders of asia's two biggest economies have pushed for a new era of friendship, one that's become more important as china has the trade war with the united states. in fact, throughout the region china is viewed negatively with

near historic lows. but globally people view china more positively than anily. the obvious exception can be seen on the streets of hong kong. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week.

>> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. i'm brian stelter. we do begin with breaking news. we need a new name for the scandal. the lawyers representing the first intelligence whistle-blowers who came forward with accusations are now confirms they are representing a second whistle-blower. here's a tweet from one of the lawyers say -- my family now represents multiple whistle-blowers in connection to the august 12th disclosure. the lawyers say no further comment at this time, but the information we are hearing is this new whistle-blower does have firsthand knowledge that supports the claims