that's right, only $40/line for four lines and smartphones book in the third person because it's confusing to go back a and are included for the whole family. what my colleagues saw. let me take you back in time which is really the purpose. book, to live like we lived. we were on the back foot in ♪ terms of technical intelligence, in terms of intercept by al qaeda. our informant picture of al ♪ nowhere to run nowhere to qaeda was poor. we thought that the second wave hide ♪ was coming which is what al i'm michael smerconish back qaeda was planning the next in philadelphia after spending the week in detroit. sflen. as martha reeves and the there was research on anthrax and southern afghanistan. vandellas once famously sang we didn't know who sent those "nowhere to run to, baby, letters in fall of 2001. then in the midst of this, the nowhere to hide." american public is saying, if after nearly five hours of this ever happens again, it's on debate spread out over two nights where did the democratic you, the first prisoners presidential contest now stand? i would argue while the captured, abu za bayda. exchanges were revealing on a myriad of issues it's still not clear how and when the nomination went. the combination of so many that's the genesis of the candidates and both an interrogation program. >> why is there what you regard ideological and strategic divide within the democratic party as the quote/unquote

means this race won't resolve anytime soon. and by the way, that's effectiveness debate relative to completely normal. donald trump leading the gop harsh negotiations? nomination fight from start to finish in the last cycle. they work and they didn't work. that's the exception. not the norm. why can't we resolve that. what was made clear on stage at >> america should not be in the the fox theater is that democrats have an ideological perspective of thinking they divide between the left and the have to go down the path saying left of center. it doesn't work. and those differences were made clear in debate over issues like and that's another reason we health care and immigration. don't have to do it. by the end of the week, there to my point, it does work. if you don't think this is san was no long consensus as to even american way to do business, pass laws against it. the obama legacy. time and again, i wrote in my if you're scaled on walls and reporter notebook, that played well in the hall. sliding up, and that you say i but i question whether it wins have to say that they're not in the general election. effective to say they're strategically, there's also a immoral. difference of opinion as to sense. even they're appropriate or whether the surest path to the they're thought. the effectiveness comes in. white house is by energizing the i don't know why we have that party's very liberal base, or argument, if you like them, or if eye accept them because broadening its appeal to disaffected rust belt democrats they're effective, fine. if you don't like them because who went for trump. the process itself, that's they're un-american don't go another obstacle. through the path of with more than half of the 20 effectiveness. they were effective. candidates in jeopardy of being >> quickly, two final points. as you point out in "black eliminated from the next debate

in september, they're under site," the people responsible for handling the worst of the intense pressure to create viral moments so as to boost worst post september 11 are fundraising and polling status. like trump in 2016, biden convinced they prevented a second wave. second observation is, they've benefits from having so many always enjoyed the support of competitors competing for the american people. the public polling suggests attention. and barring a gaffe, the dyna c people are okay with this. >> i don't think that's the question i would ask. dynamics probably won't look, the president of the united states, the current exchangeful he faces a thinner president raised the quo earlier field. to the administration of only when that happens, say, waterboarding. the question i would ask, the elizabeth warren standing on the stage with the front-runner, people who represent the people, the congress of the united states raked us over the coals. will this race really clarify. in the meantime, the nomination they raked us over the coals and is very much in play. i briefed them in '03 and beyond and the party runs the risk that this long and arduous process about what we were doing, after they told us it was okay. may produce a nominee who is anybody in a leadership going down the road including current unelectable, owing the director gina haspel. compromises made to satisfy the base in order to secure the nomination. i want to know what you think. go to my website at this hour h saying it's okay. i can't imagine doing it again, because the congress, they'll moonwalk on you. >> i'm not giving you props because you're a colleague. smerconish.com, and answer the i'm giving you props because i

question, did the detroit read thoroughly enjoyed debates improve or worsen the it. i learn a lot. odds of democrat winning the "black site. "thank you, phil. white house? newly come audio between garland gilchrist, you'll remember him, he told the nixon and reagan has brought audience before wednesday night's debate that many in reagan to the forefront. power have fallen out of touch don't forget to answer the with everyday americans. surveyle question. go to smerconish.com. mr. lieutenant governor, east side props, you knocked them dead on wednesday night. now, i know that you and did the detroit debates improve governor whitmer delivered a or worsen the odds of a democrat primer of sorts to all 20 winning the white house? candidates before they arrived. and said, look, here's what you with renters insurance. need to address in the state of yeah, and we could save a bunch too. michigan. how did you do on what you antonio! fetch computer! provided? >> first of all, thanks for having me, michael. we did provide that context antonio? because we want to hear more i'll get it. about the great lakes. we want to hear more about how get to know geico and see how much you could save on renters insurance. you're going to fix infrastructure. because in michigan, we have the worst roads in the country. we have too many people who are still not as confident as they should be in the water they drink. we have education outcomes that

are still lagging where they need to be. in 2018, governor whitmer and i won on those issues. fixing the roads and infrastructures, improving education, closing the skills gap and guaranteeing drinking water. when democrats speak on those issues they will win in michigan and the country. >> how about the big picture question. i can tick off things that come to mind. outlawing private insurance. decriminalizing border crossings that are illegal. even calling into question president obama's record relative to deportations. do you worry that a they're of it is now taking hold that the party has just moved too far to the left to satisfy those michigan voters who abandoned the party and went for donald trump? >> el wewell, michigan voters, michael will speak to those people who speak to their issues and we do not have to choose between being progressive and solving problems. the reality is governor whitmer

and i ran on the most progressive agenda that a democrat has ever run on in the state of michigan. we won by ten points. we know how campaigns can win on issues. when democrats focus on those issues, again, education, infrastructure, closing the to find out, olay faced the world.better than olay? we tested our vitamin b3 formula skills gap, clean water. that's what will help them win. and beat japan's top moisturizers. we need to make sure we're speaking to premium directly. >> yeah, i'm just not sure, mr. lieutenant governor those are the issues that did get the south korea's most innovative. attention. i understand that's what resonate in your state, probably in a state like mine, in and even the $400 french cream. pennsylvania, in ohio, and wisconsin as well. olay regenerist faced 131 premium products i'm not sure that's the picture that emerged in five hours over in 12 countries, over 10 years. the span of two different olay's hydration was unbeaten every time. nights. >> well, the candidates still olay. face anything. have opportunity and we look forward to them showing up in michigan and those key states. this is what they need to speak to. whatever happened in the stage. that's one moment in time. this is a long process. we have a while before we're

going to have primaries and we're going to have caucuses. candidates have time to speak to the people. and what they care about. >> you know the strength of the african-american vote in this nomination process so let me ask a specific question about it. when joe biden, the former vice president, is taking incoming on his association with president obama, does that end up benefitting him, among african-american voters nationwide? because if obama's understand assaul under assault, they're going to want to rally around the flag that is joe bide jn. >> that's an interesting question. i think what we need to focus on, candidates will win with speaking issues. i'm not sure their voters are going to be, at the end of the day, enamored on the arguments on the esoteric. i think they're going to focus on issues. black voters are no different. black voters turned out in record numbers in 2018. i'm the first lieutenant

governor because of that turnout. if we're speaking to education. education inequity, is a big issue in the city of detroit where i live. in the state of michigan and all cities across the country. candidates need to focus on speaking to that, rather than attacking the record of the previous president. that will motivate black voters. new tapes released this week that will motivate voters of all by the national ash chivrchives races and ethnicity. >> okay. final strategic question, and you're not allowed to say both. which is more important, in terms of a democratic successful vealed shocking language. path, is it rallying the core reagan was on a phone call with constituencies, people of color, richard nixon. women, younger voters, or trying reagan referreded to leaders of to win back those high-school african nations as monkeys. educated white guys in rust belt and nixon gets in his own dig, states who abandoned hillary and went for donald trump? listen. >> answer to that question is we >> i'll tell you, to see those do not have to choose. an electoral strategy that monkeys from those african excludes voters is not a good countries, damn them, they're electoral strategy. the truth is, michael, still uncomfortable wearing shoes. progressivism and problem >> the tail wags the dog there, solving are not different.

we do not choose between doesn't it? >> with me biographer and persuading and turning out voters. we need to do all of the above. presidential historian craig so much at stake here. the governor and i got record shirley. he's four best-sellers. voter turnout and won by ten this fall he'll be teaching a class on reagan at the points in a state that donald university of virginia. craig, in the research that went trump won by 10,000. our path is clear. into all four of those books, did you ever see any evidence of we do not need to have this false choice. the country is so divided so similar behavior by ronald reagan? and if not, how do you explain democrats need to be united. it in this instance? >> you didn't take my bait. >> no michael, no evidence you did go for both, but that's okay. whatsoever, there's a lot aut o >> that's just blah i believe. >> garland gilchrist, think so evidence to the contrary. the team was making a road trip, much. >> what are your thoughts? and a local hotels had a no tweet me y@smerconish. black policy. and they had two african-americans on the team. instead, he took them to his home in dixon where his parents what do we have? warmly took him in. when he was -- when he was an michael, obama has 95% approval. actor in hollywood, the ritzy michael i thought the same thing. could -- here's a question for country club asked him to join, he was ready to until they found you -- could barack obama win out they had a restrictive

the nomination of this policy that didn't allow jews. incarnation of the party? it seems like so much has changed since 2008. so they it turned down. that's what i'm getting at with in 1952, he called on hollywood my survey question. go there and answer, did the to make more roles for detroit debates improve or worsen the odds of a democrat african-americans in actors. winning the white house? answers up ahead. the new york police officer reagan with this, this is one who fatally choked eric garner case if he was alive today, i and caused his death. would bet my bottom dollar, he would be the first one to i'm going to talk to a retired denounce it, apologize for it and express deep regret and attrition for having -- fbi supervisor who said the >> well, that's what daughter officer should not be spired. patty davis said in part in "the and later, president trump washington post." here's what else she wrote, thanking the states who helped there is no defense, no him win the election but he might also want to thank the rationalization, no suitable talk support including rush explanation for what my father said on that taped phone limbaugh. >> it's a bunch of reasons. conversation." you'd agree with that, right? the radical extremism, number one. but also, who needs democrats >> oh, sure, i thought it was a brilliant piece that patti wrote working for to you get wages up,

when trump's economy is taking yesterday. i agree with it entirely. care of it? grab some pens. >> you wrote on news max, if a man says something in totality, should that be defined by his own state. i think that is the reason that the reagan administration suffer would shakespeare have chosen just "some pens?" said an enormous blow. i will tell you, sayou as a rea methinks a tul pen would serve m'lady well. thanks. and a unicorn notebook! get everything on your list. republican, this is a this week's doorbuster- school backpacks for $10; devastating stomach punch? $10 in store or online >> and i remember, you became a from the advisors at office depot officemax. republican after you met reagan in 1980, in philadelphia, if i'm [upbeat music] no matter how much you clean, does your house still smell stuffy? not mistaken. >> it's true. you're right. that's because your home is filled with soft surfaces >> michael, this is a bump in that trap odors and release them back into the room. the road. this is an unfortunate thing. as i said, if he was alive, he'd so, try febreze fabric refresher febreze finds odors trapped in fabrics apologize for it. but the totality of his life, (bubbles popping) and cleans them away as it dries. the signing of the martin luther use febreze every time you tidy up to keep your whole house smelling fresh air clean. king holiday. the signing of the ten-year extension of the civil rights fabric refresher even works for clothes act, in every way, shape or form you want to wear another day. is that make febreze part of your clean routine for whole home freshness. exampling of his generosity and ♪la la la la la. his kindness and his color blind

attitude have to be taken into consideration. and by the way, too i want to point out in 1976, the plains baptist church, which jimmy carter was a member did not allow african-americans to become members of that church. carter did not resign in protest. he continued as a member. in 1976 stretch of time was far nearer to us today than 1971. so if reagan is going to be judged by this and is going to earn a black mark for this, then i didn't have to call 911.help. so to should jimmy carter and and i didn't have to come get you. every other president from because you didn't have another heart attack. not today. franklin roosevelt, to john you took our conversation about your chronic coronary artery disease to heart. kennedy. >> you're losing me. even with a stent procedure, up until now you were making a decent argument, but to now cast your condition can get worse over time, and keep you at risk of blood clots. so you added xarelto®, to help keep you protected. dispersion elsewhere, you were better served when you adopted xarelto®, when taken with low-dose aspirin, the patty reagan line which is is proven to further reduce the risk of blood clots there's just no defense. that can cause heart attack, stroke, or cardiovascular death in people with chronic cad. there's just no defense. >> i agree with that. there is no defense except to

that's because while aspirin can help, say that he would apologize for it and look as i said the it may not be enough to manage your risk of blood clots. totality of his life and all the in a clinical trial, almost 96% of people taking xarelto® good things that he did. >> craig shirley, thank you so did not have a cardiovascular event. much. >> you bet, michael. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, still to come, your best and worst tweets and facebook as this may increase your risk of heart attack, comments and the final results, stroke, or cardiovascular death. while taking, a spinal injection i can't wait to see the answer to this survey question. increases the risk of blood clots did the detroit debates improve which may cause paralysis- the inability to move. or worsen the odds of a democrat winning the white house? you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. go vote. xarelto® can cause serious, on top of things. and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. a faster laptop could help. plus, it may increase your risk of bleeding tech support to stay worry free. if you take certain medicines. worry free. get help right away for unexpected bleeding boom! ha.ha. boom! or unusual bruising. do not take xarelto® now, save up to 40% off furniture. if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. up to 40% off at office depot officemax or officedepot.com. before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. hi, it's real milk, just00% farmwithout the lactose, id. up to 40% off at office depot enjoy every moment-and help protect yourself so you can enjoy it even if you're sensitive. from an unexpected one, like a cardiovascular event. are you doing enough? delicious. ask your doctor if it's time for xarelto®. now, i've heard people say lactaid isn't real milk. to learn more about cost and how janssen can help, ok, well, if it isn't real then, visit xarelto.com. i guess those things over there can't actually be cows.

must be some kind of really big dogs, then. sit! bad dog. and my side super soft? with the sleep number 360 smart bed it can... with your sleep number setting. can it help keep me asleep? yes, it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. save up to $600 on select sleep number 360 smart beds. hi, i'm joan lunden. when my mother began forgetting things, only for a limited time. we didn't know where to turn for more information. that's why i recommend a free service called a place for mom. we have local senior living advisors who can answer your questions about dementia or memory care and, if necessary, help you find the right place for your mom or dad. we all want what's best for our parents, so call today. forget the conventional wisdom as to how donald trump won a stunning upset in 2016. that story holds that trump won [upbeat music] no matter how much you clean, does your house still smell stuffy? the pressey by swinging 80,000 that's because your home is filled with soft surfaces

voters in pennsylvania, that trap odors and release them back into the room. wisconsin and michigan in a one-off election. so, try febreze fabric refresher but actually, trump won by harnessing forcing and demotions febreze finds odors trapped in fabrics that were 30 years in the (bubbles popping) and cleans them away as it dries. making. he owes his success, not so much use febreze every time you tidy up to high school-educated white to keep your whole house smelling fresh air clean. males who traditionally vote fabric refresher even works for clothes democratic and could not stomach you want to wear another day. hillary clinton. but to the titans of talk radio, make febreze part of your clean routine for whole home freshness. for it is they, who paved the ♪la la la la la. way for his type of candidacy and his republican party. that's the oversimplified version of the thesis of a brand-new book by my next guest dr. brian rosenwald. it's took is "talk radio's america." dr. rosenwald learned by studying radio. he's a professor on leadership

ethics at the university of pennsylvania. you said it was not the ride, but actually august 1, 1980. how come? >> that's the day that rush here, hello! starts with -hi!mple... limbaugh takes to the radio. how can i help? a data plan for everyone. everyone? and people tune in, what they everyone. let's send to everyone! [ camera clicking ] hear every day is calls for a fighter. it doesn't make for a good radio wifi up there? -ahhh. to say, hey, nuance, compromise, sure, why not? that stuff is boring. but fighting, that's good radio. how'd he get out?! a camera might figure it out. and donald trump captured that that was easy! glad i could help. ethos. >> by the way, lest anybody at xfinity, we're here to make life simple. easy. awesome. think the book is a hit job on so come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today. rush and others, you give limbaugh props as being a master show marn and performing virtuoso. >> michael, he blazed the path. he created a different platform. because it's a great show. so how did you vote? early on he would abort callers. the survey question at he would play a vacuum cleaner smerconish dom. did the detroit debates improve sound effect. you'd hear screams in the or worsen the odds of a democrat

background as he was hacking up on the caller. there were things nobody had winning the white house. seen or heard and people tuned 7642 let's call it two-thirds in because they never knew what say worsen. he was going to say. interesting, probably adopting the line of thought that says in >> so, did he, rush, shape focus in the 30 years or was he simply an effort to curry favor with the base and secure the giving voice? >> he was simply giving voice to nomination, the net effect is to do harm to the likelihood of the the bedrock conservative november victory because they're sentiments that he had grown up with or that his audience had. tacking too far to the left. i think that's probably the that doesn't mean he didn't right answer, by the way. shine the spotlight on issues if barack obama's record is now that his audience might being questioned on that stage, i think it's headed in the wrong obviously heard. direction. it didn't mean that he didn't here's some of what you thought in terms of social media. shape expectations for what it democrat contenders should say was for republicans. but it wasn't like he was a what they believe and why is that always a negative? puppet master who directed his why do democrats feel they need audience to believe things. to hide what they believe to get his audience already believed elected? well, connecticut animal them. removal, interesting tag, the >> there's this mind-set out there, you referenced puppet point is that those positions, master that the whole landscape you know, a job for everyone guaranteed by the green new deal was controlled by those eager to or decriminalization of those who crossed the border illegally. i could rattle off five or ten examples of that, are out of

step with majority opinion spread wisss witwisdom or ideol. getting rid of all private what was the motivation? >> the motivation was to charge insurers in the united states. so it may play well at the fox advertising rates which is how theater in detroit where i had can we make the most money. the privilege of spending time, what's the best, most engaging but i question whether it's show that we can put on every going to be a winning ticket in sangle day. november. and that didn't always work with bottom line, there's a ton of what republicans wanted to do. time on the clock. hey, i am off for a vacation at times, republicans would say, hey, this is the best deal we next week. can cut. i'll see you back here in two and talk radio would say, no, weeks. have a nice weekend. stand up and fight for us. fight for our values. they're rolling over again. m very forte i can lean on people, for the mainstream media, the and that for me is what teamwork is all about. democrats, that's all they do, you can't do everything yourself. they just roll over. and that's the sentiment that helps give us donald trump. you need someone to guide you >> and so, in the process, the and help you make those tough decisions, republican party, the leadership that's morgan stanley. of the republican party is they're industry leaders, subpoena planted by the but the most important thing is industry. they want to do it the right way. how did that all work? >> well, when you spend three i'm really excited to be part of the morgan stanley team. hours a day with your private host, sometimes more because these guys are on cable at i'm justin rose. we are morgan stanley. night, some of them, you start to listen to them. they're like trusted friends. you spend more time with them than with your spouse. you mighyour joints...ng for your heart... so, when they say something, that carries a lot of weight. or your digestion...

and especially in primaries so why wouldn't you take something where very few voters turn out. for the most important part of you... it's like 10% or something like your brain. that. the fact is, if your favorite with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, host is talking up a candidate, that means something. prevagen has been shown in clinical trials and the elected republicans to improve short-term memory. courted these guys fort of prevagen. healthier brain. better life. said, well, you know, the relationship is less good than bad, it was kind of too late already at that point for them. the host had the relationships with the audience. and that w w going to shape things. >> okay. here's what i'm hearing from you. and i read the book and i know this is the argument that you make. essentially that there's a certain swath of american voters, particularly republican primary voters who in 2016, after 30 years of a trail being blazed by their favorite talk radio host, whoever that may i was on the fence about changing have been, they wanted to elect someone who was in that mold? from a manual to an electric toothbrush. >> yeah. but my hygienist said going electric they were frustrated. could lead to way cleaner teeth. they were frustrated by both she said, get the one inspired by dentists,

bushes. they were frustrated by john with a round brush head. go pro with oral-b. oral-b's gentle rounded brush head boehner and paul ryan. removes more plaque along the gum line. these guys made promises and for cleaner teeth and healthier gums. and unlike sonicare, oral-b they got to the campaign trail is the first electric toothbrush brand and they didn't actually deliver. accepted by the ada the reason they didn't deliver, for its effectiveness and safety. what an amazing clean! the whole country wasn't with them. we have a lot of checkpoints and i'll only use an oral-b! oral-b. veto points in our government. brush like a pro. but that's not what the folks heard on the airwaves. they heard frustration. they heard anger. so chantix can help you quit slow turkey.key. they were afraid, hosts were saying, just to pick one issue, along with support, immigration, they were saying chantix is proven to help you quit. this is going to destroy the fabric of america. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and the end result was they were and ease into quitting. looking for someone like donald chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, trump. someone who sounded like their favorite host. you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. someone who the most important thing was punching back against when you try to quit smoking, the liberal elite. not just people on television, with or without chantix, but in the democratic parties. you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. and donald trump gave them that. stop chantix and get help right away so they put aside any worries if you have changes in behavior or thinking, they had about not being a aggression, hostility, conservative. >> brian, i've had a front row depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seat for that which you have seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems,

chronicled. and i think you nailed it. and i think the book is the most sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. kogent explanation of anything i've seen as to how 2016 brought decrease alcohol use. about that conclusion that use caution driving or operating machinery. stunned many. thank you for being here. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. >> my pleasure, michael. the most common side effect is nausea. >> let me see what you're saying quit smoking slow turkey. on my smerconish twitter and talk to your doctor about chantix. facebook pages. this from facebook. what do we have? everything comes down to the money. so very sad that people sell their soul, if they ever had one. well, i think, charlotte, what he dispels in the book is the idea that there are puppet masters out there who want to spread conservative ideology. they would just the same have spread liberal ideology. those who control the industry, i don't necessarily mean the hosts. i'm talking about the owners and the program directors if that were the meal ticket. but when rush gets syndicated at the end of the '80s that the vacuum was on the conservative sides but it was never about spreading conservative ideology,

it's about ringing the register good morning to you, we are and selling the arrangements. so grateful to have your company make sure you're voting. on this saturday, august 3rd, yes, august already. >> all right. did the detroit debates improve >> moving through the summer, or worsen the odds of a democrat i'm victor blackwell, good to be winning the white house? with you here in the cnn news up ahead, conventional wisdom says a new york police room. officer puts a choke hold on nevada in the spotlight today as eric garner because he's selling over a dozen dmkemocratic presidential candidates get lucies and causes his death and ready to participate in a public needs to be fired. but are the officer's actions service forum. actually defensible? joe biden, senators kamala harris and bernie sanders will my next guess says, yes. be there among others. each candidate will address questions from public service and that for me workers. >> the candidates are also ho is what teamwork is all about. you can't do everything yourself. hostihos hosting town halls, community you need someone to guide you and help you make those tough decisions, events, panel discussions and th that's morgan stanley. they're industry leaders, but the most important thing is they want to do it the right way. i'm really excited to be part of the morgan stanley team. i'm justin rose. we are morgan stanley.

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it's been more than five years since eric garner died after police tried to arrest him for allegedly selling loose cigarettes allegedly on staten island. >> don't touch me. [ bleep ] touch me. >> hey. >> okay, okay. >> put your hands behind your head. >> i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. >> once again, the police -- >> ever since garner's death, the police officer accused of choking him, daniel pantaleo is on desk duty. friday, an nypd administrative judge officially recommendeded firing of pantaleo who has now

been suspended. some allege that pantaleo used an illegal choke hold on garner and point to the video as proof. pantaleo denied that he used the choke hold. the controversy even made its way into the 2020 race after protesters chanted fire pantaleo when mayor de blasio was on the debate stage. the "new york post" say the opposite. saying the facts say: do not fire daniel pantaleo. joining me, james gillian know. james, it's one of these cases where it's hard to watch that. you're looking at it saying, my god, he's selling one-off cigarettes. who gives a damn. he was killed for that. it's excessive force. but then youpruder the film. and eye see something different.

>> sure. this was an avoidable tragedy. for folks who think you trotted out a garden variety police shield i've argued when police deserve the death sentence or life sentence. i've argued when police should go away from brutality, on use force continuum, going to excessive lengths. in this instance, we arrest timed of police officers to arrest somebody, to your point, selling loose cigarettes. what does that mean? it's a small minor infraction. and you're right about that. but those tax stamps on those cigarette taxes are what pays for improving neighborhoods like mr. garner's. so the police were dispatched to do this. they were enforcing the law. mr. garner says on that stop, leave me alone, you're not doing this to me today. mr. garner is 6'3", 350 pounds

history, michael, chronic asthma, diabetes, heart disease. one medical examiner for the city of new york said, yes, a contributing factor of what was described as a choke hold. i'm sure we'll talk about the mechanics of that in a second. but a second examiner for the city of st. louis said it was not the cause of mr. garner's death, michael. >> i get that garner did not go quietly, although he wasn't aggressive, something that i know you recognize. >> right. >> but, yeah, let's talk about the choke hold. why was that next and isn't that a prohibited tactic? >> it absolutely is. and over the years we're got to disassembly what that means, a choke hold. a choke hold is a mere naked restraint. you put your hands around somebody, you squeeze against both of their carotid arteries. that generally causes somebody to go unconscious. mr. garner, it's hard to watch

says 11 times "i can't breathe." michael, i've arrested hundreds upon hundreds of people across a career. every time i had to take them into custody, they complained about the force or pressure on their wrists. whether garner is a long man. officer pantaleo is not. there's an old instruction in police instruction that says if the body head goes, the body fo. if mr. garner had complied we wouldn't be where we are today. >> one more time, kathryn, can we run the tape. james, go ahead, you explain. >> essentially what happens when the officers arrive on the scene. again, mr. garner is standing there. hooe he'd been arrested some 30 times, "the wall street journal" reported for a whole host of

different crimes. most of them petty crimes but also assault and grand larceny. now, he decides he's not going to be arrested. when the officers tell him to turn around and put his hands behind his back, he resists. michael to your point, he's never agressive to the officers, he doesn't try to attack him. but when police instruct to bring someone in, to have them imply, to have them in court, and they don't, it appears that officer pantaleo tried to wrestle him to the ground. it prevents them from being hurt. obviously that didn't help in this instance. and it provides for the arresting officers to be put in harm's way as well. go ahead -- >> but by my count there are six or seven police officers. >> yes. >> why was it necessary for pantaleo to perform that tactic, whether it was a choke hold or not? surely, there was another way, with six or seven guys there to

bring him in? >> absolutely. generally speaking we bring ten to arrest one. we bring 20 to arrest two. and why is that? we want to remove that fight or flight instinct that sometimes people have. in this instance, officer pantaleo was trying to control him. and as you notice, mr. garner never puts his hands behind his back which would have immediately de-escalated the situation, michael, i, you, no one else certainly wanted to see mr. garner lose his life. but he set into a cascading set of events. manage that could have been so unavoidable here. how are police officers to treat somebody who says you're not bringing me until today? >> james gagliano, thank you, it's a different perspective than one we're hearing. i'm happy you gave it voice. >> thank you, sir. >> let's check in on your tweets and facebook comments. what do we have? "he murdered eric garner!

he said it 11 times he can't breathe!" i get it, deb. i understand that's the conventional way of watching the tape. and the first ten times i watched the tape i came to the same conclusion. i look to james, and james says, look, this is what they're dealing with. he wasn't being cooperative, nor was he being aggressive. my take is this, they had six or seven law enforcement officers on that scene. there had to be a better way than what we saw to take him into custody. big guy but outnumbered by six or seven. and it should never have come to this. still to come, he's charged as being the architect of 9/11, but could the blurring of fbi versus cia role under tortuous conditions under which sheikh mohammed's confessions

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the issue should not be more timely than a release of a colleague. you know phil mudd. he's the author of "black site." he's the ex-cia director of the counterterrorism center. phil, a lot has been written about the world and detainees, why did you think it was important to write this particular story? >> this is a slice of history and american history that was so tense and so significance, that is, the cia's choice to build its own prisons and interrogate their polirisoners. i knew that america needs a slice of that history standing in the shies of cia officers who decided to go down that path. i figured if some of them were going to speak, they'll speak to me, almost everybody i interviewed i'm going to tell their stories for them. i sat down one day, introduced 35 plus and wrote the book.

>> you fill in the gap between what happened between 9/11 and gitmo. and you tell the story of how we interrogated these detainees. it remains clear here there was a blank slate as to what the protocol was. >> there's two floss jphilosopi. with the secretary of state donald rumsfeld saiding why can't we get there that fast. the downside of that, you go into something like the interrogation program, without a lot of policy and procedures, what you get as the book outlines is the first period of the detention program was pretty rough. they were fast and furious. but sometimes, they made mistakes. >> you say that it's important to re-create, as we look at the events post 9/11. the urgency that existed in the

country at that time. i want you to speak to that. i know that some will say, well, that's really not an excuse. but your point is one of context. wind the clock back and remember hoi mean, i was there, i wrote e