we do have breaking news on the story that we first brought you last night are from the university of mississippi. ole miss senate students have voted to remove the state flag which removes the symbol of the confederacy. i'm brooke baldwin and see you back here tomorrow night. "ac360" begins right now. there is a lot of politics ahead, including the latest from donald trump, and the latest accounts of what joe biden gave of the osama bin laden. but, first, new revelations tonight about how long it is taking veterans to get the health care they need, even after all of the promises that the officials made to fix a seriously broken system. our previous reporting as you may recall helped to spark the investigations, and apologies and the resignation of eric

shinseki, the secretary of the v.a., and even after that, wait times in the v.a. facilities are growing longer and not shorter. right now, half a million veterans are on electronic wait lists waiting for more cases of more than 90 days to see a doctor. tonight, we sit down to find out what is going on and why the v.a. is not getting better. tonight, our correspondent drew griffin is keeping them honest. >> reporter: wait times are not getting better. listen to what this whistle ploeer say ploe -- whistle-blower is saying about the phoenix v.a., the same v.a. that veterans were dying waiting for care. >> the reality veterans are waiting three, six, nine months at a time to get care at the phoenix v.a. >> reporter: like many of our source unside, this the whistle-blower is asking that we don't reveal any identity.

are we talking about critical care? >> patients waiting for appointments fra coll lon os-- colonoscopies, and specialty appointments that need be seen immediately by the v.a. >> and these v.a. documents shown last week in phoenix, there were more than 90,000 appointments waiting more than 90 days. sloan dixon was brought on the fix this mess. >> the sen te of this whole thing, the v.a. and i will have you look at a that, it shows more than 8,000 patients waiting more than 90 days fr the appointment, and explain to me what that is and what that is? >> that is an open consult

appointment, and that is instances where the care has been delivered, but maybe some administrative issue that has not been corrected yet that allows the kconsult to be removed. >> does it necessarily mean that 8,000 patients are not waiting 90 days. >> patently, they are not waiting 90 days, but are they waiting more than they should, yes. >> how can you make a statement that they are not. >> some of them are not. >> but how many are not? >> no, i don't know. i don't know for phoenix and i can't tell you for the top of the v.a. >> and it is hardly limited to phoenix. this internal draft memo leaked to cnn says that wait times are increasi increasing. >> that is a slide deck for me, and the appointments over 30 days, and the wait list is

almost 500,000 today, and how can that with be? the lesson that we have seen in location after location is when we improve access to care whether it is by adding staff or space or productivity or care in the community, more veterans come to v.a. for more care. >> you are saying that you are a vi victim of your own success? >> i would say that the challenge that we have is a structural challenge. >> when our sources tell us that the reality is that the veterans are weight months you would say -- >> i would say that we work every single day trying to find ways to make it better. i know as you have shown right there, we have veterans waiting too long for care. >> in los angeles, the largest v.a. facility in the nation, this document obtained by cnn shows that wait lists for mental health was 90 days, and the v.a. said four days and how can there be two different numbers? the v.a. has new calculation

numbers. when asked, we were sent this document, and the dates and the future and scheduled date and various readjustment fs for the no-show or the cancel by a veteran. according to statement from the v.a. this methodology allows v.a. to capture the full wait time experience of the patient. sources involved in actual schedulinging tell cnn it is just confusing. >> the staff who are telling us that what they think they are seeing is recalculations, number manipulations to paint a rosier picture than it is. >> absolutely not. i wouldn't stand for it not for a minute. >> the new leadership at the v.a. says it will not stand for any retaliation against the whistle-blowers who come forward to point to veterans who are treat treated unfairly, but in preparing this report, cnn has

learn ed th learned that the va managers were already searching for the leak. >> in fact, i happen to know that once we sent documents to the v.a. regarding this interview, there were active investigations go g ing on by managers certain willy in l.a. and in phoenix to find out who could possibly have had access to the documents, and who could possibly have given them to cnn? >> and there should not have been investigations, period. i have made it clear more times than i can count inf every form that i can come up with that retaliation against whistle-blowers won't be tolerated. >> dr. catherine mitchell one of the original whistle wh-- whistle-blowers in phoenix know they will not be fired which is why many in the v.a. have chosen to keep their mouth shut. >> the people that retaliated against the people who kept their mouth shut are still there. >> and so they were to fire bad managers and it is criticizing

bad managers and so far just firing three executives and if that is true, why so few? >> i don't have a specific nu number of people that were specifically disciplined associated with the wait list scandal. the criminal i.g. has gone in and concluded that there was no misconduct, and there was no mall intent and it is somebody who didn't understand their job. >> but the managers of those people, honestly, they were not doing a good -- and you are from private business and i don't have to tell you that we had managers and supervisors who had not done their job. >> we had managers who did not understand how the do scheduling. >> maybe they shouldn't be mana managers? >> maybe they shouldn't be and more than 50% of the leaders in the vha have turned over in 24 months. >> and the congressional sources have been up convinced that anything has changed since the scandal except for the way they

calculate the wait times which according to dr. catherine mitchell still do not el tell the whole truth. >> do you think based on your knowledge of the how the system works that veterans are still dying waiting for care? >> yes. yes. >> no hesitation? >> no hesitation at all. >> drew joins us now. those are serious allegations. is there any way to prove that veterans are dying waiting for care? >> are the veterans waiting for care, yes. are the veteran waiting dying, yes. are the waits causing or contributing to the e deaths? well, it takes a look back of the medical review of more or less a medical trial to find out, but what we do know is that a just released inspector general's report looking back at urology patients in phoenix in 2013 and 2014 did find delays to v veterans and seriously impacted their care and that is a quote, and several of the veteran died, but that is as far as the reports go. >> after all of this, why just

three senior executives fired and didn't congress make it easier for the v.a. to fire people? >> it is easier, but it is not easy. two managers removed from the phoenix v.a. they are still on unpaid leave and it is 18 months. sloan gibson and secretary mcdonald, i can understand their frustration, because they are from the private sector and they are trying to manage the bureaucracy and they is out of their control and they are trying to fire the poor performers, and so they are moving them around to not do any harm, but it is not easy. >> thank you, drew, for staying on it. and up next, breaking news from the house leadership, and congressman paul ryan is saying that he is willing to be speaker if sefrveral things fall into place. and also, donald trump is saying that the president is wantinging to take your guns away, and you

might be surprised by that and other thanks that are not backed up by facts. we are "keeping them honest" tonight. ♪ the beautiful sound of customers making the most of their united flight. power, wi-fi, and streaming entertainment. that's... seize the journey friendly. ♪

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we have breaking news. congressman paul ryan says he would be willing to serve as house speakers with certain conditions. our cnn political reporter manu raja is here with the latest. what have we learned? >> reporter: well, anderson, paul ryan just addressed a closed-door briefing of his fellow house republicans. what he said is he's willing to run for speaker if all the different competing factions within the republican conference agree to endorse his bid for speaker. he does not want to come in as someone who would barely get

over the finish line with the 218 votes necessary to become speaker. he wants full unity. a person with 247 votes to get across the finish line and this is a big development, anderson, because for the last week and a half or so, with that stunning announcement by kevin mccarthy to not take the speakership, the pressure has been building on paul ryan to take this speakership job. he has been skeptical, because he wants to stay in his current position as the house ways and means chairman and he was not interested in managinging the policies and the personalities on the house floor, but there is nobody really who can do it, and the pressure has been building pretty intensely from all parts of the republican party, and he spent last week back at home reflecting on the decision, ap he went hunting with the family, and thaought about it long and hard and he came back today and talked to more members, and held

more meetings with key caucuses, and he said that he would jump in as a unity candidate. after this meeting the republicans came out, anderson, and a large amount said they would get behind him, and we will see in the coming days what the key groups will say, but it is right now looking like paul ryan will be the next speaker of the house, anderson. >> and i want to go to peter king. congress map, what do you think about what paul ryan is saying what he would do? >> i would strongly support paul ryan as speaker. i think the conditions he laid out are done in a very positive way. saying he said he would be -- is willing to take arrows in the chest, but not in the back. he wants everyone to buy in, and he will be looking for endorsement of all the major groups, including the tuesday group, the liberal group and the freedom caucus, and he basically said a that he has to have the endorsement of all of them or

otherwise, he said that he would be the third log on the fire and he does not want that. if he's going to be the speaker, it probably will be the end of his political career, probably won't go further than this. he wants to make it worth while. he believes in the cause rather than in just the political gamesmanship, and he also indicated he does not want to spend as much time fund-raising. it will be policy oriented and selling the republican message. >> congressman, i want to let you know that we are showing the podium that we are showing you right now that congressman ryan is expected to come out the speak, and we will bring it to the viewers live,b so i may have to jump in and i want to apologize for that in advance, but congressman king, how likely do you plooe thbelieve that he the support of the various factions? >> anderson, i would put it this way, if he doesn't, no one will. i agree with paul -- as far as i

know, i agree with him on most issues. if i didn't, he laid it out in a way if you don't have the speaker of the house, the speaker needs to be effective. he can't be spending time fighting with his own party. he has to have the party standing with him. so to me that's just common sense also. paul has the qualifications, his knowledge, integrity, you know, no one is going to match him. if they don't endorse paul ryan, i don't know where we go. i really fear for the party. >> how touch a decision do you think this was for him? we have been told up until now he was basically in his dream job. he's a policy guy and reforming the tax code, and he was in a position to take that on. >> basically paul said all of that tonight. i think probably it was his preference not to take it, but on the other hand he said that so many people have in effect told him that he's the only one that could unite the party, if the party keeps going the way it is, it will virtually guarantee a democratic election, the president in 2016 and maybe the

loss of the house and the senate. he was willing to do it, but he said his family does come first and also he wants a a party united behind him. he's not going in for the title, the perks, whatever they are, it's because he believes in the cause, you know, before the political ambition. i believe paul. other people say that and you know it is standard rhetoric, but paul is for real. i'm not close to paul ryan, but i admire him, know him and i have tremendous respect for him. >> definitely taking on one of the toughest jobs there is. thank you congressman king for joining us. joining me is dana lash, and ana navarra. day a na, what do you think? will he get the backing of all of the disparate groups? >> that's a great question. optically paul ryan is a good choice, he's of good temperament. he has youth on his side.

he is a good messenger. he is one of those in the house, one of the few adept at taking something policy wise very far in the weeds and presenting it in laymen's terms and he's been grouped a while by john boehner. but that being said where you have the freedom caucus and grassroots, they're concerned about his past, particularly the fact that he's really never met a bailout he didn't like, he supported part d, no child left behind, tarp, and it's the company with whom he's kept. while john boehner has been the face, make no mistake it's been paul ryan the planner behind the scenes, and so there are concerns that they have. if he will not do it without their consent that could be the holdout. i am pretty sure they will stick with the princeleple unless arms can be twisted. >> yet, ana, if they don't agree, who else is there but paul ryan? >> frankly i can't think of anybody else who is capable of reaching consensus, of uniting the different factions in the party.

i really hope the freedom caucus, the different factions in the republican party and the house can unite behind paul. i will tell you, anderson, i am a friend of his wife and this is a huge sacrifice for the wife, they have school-aged children and it weighed on him tremendously. from inside of the room he said, this is not about the title but the cause. i'm a cause guy. people know that whether you agree with him or not ideology wise, he is a man of judgment and character and a man of his word and he is going to try to do the right thing and be a team builder, so i would urge everybody in the house, and all of the republicans in the house to unite and back paul ryan to d tod today, and because if not him, who? >> we have to take a short break, because we are expecting congressman ryan to speak in a moment, and we will take that in a moment, and if you will stick around so we will hear what he say s, dana and ana.

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but only a few moves to master paying bills on chase.com technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. welcome back. right now, congressman ryan -- >> tonight i shared with my

colleagues what i felt it would take to have a unified conference and what would make it successful. basically i made a few requests for what i think is necessary, and i asked my colleagues to hear back from them by the end of the week. first, we need to move from an opposition party to being a proposition party. because we think the nation is on the wrong past, we have a duty to show the right one our next speaker has to be a visionary one. second, we need to update our house rules so that everyone can be a more effective representative. this is, after all, the people's house. we need to do this as a team and it needs to include fixes that ensure we do not experience constant leadership challenges in crises. third, we as a conference should unify now and not after a divisive speaker election. the last point, last point is personal.

i cannot and will not give up my family time. i may not be on the road as often as previous speakers, but i pledge to try and make up for it with more time communicating our vision, our message. what i told members is if you can agree to these requests, and if i can truly be a unifying figure, then i will gladly serve. and if i'm not unifying, that will be fine as well. i will be happy to stay where i am the ways and means committee. here is how i see it. it is our duty to serve the people the way they deserve to be served. it is our duty to make the tough decisions this country needs to get our nation back on track. the challenges we face today are too difficult and too demanding to turn our backs and walk away. global terror, war on multiple fronts, a government grown

unaccountable, unconstitutional, out of touch. persistent poverty, a sluggish economy, flat wages, a skyrocketing debt, but we cannot take on these challenges alone. now more than ever we must work together. all of us are representatives of the people. all people. we have been entrusted by them to lead. and yet the people we serve, they do not feel we are delivering on the job that they hired us to do. we have become the problem. if my colleagues entrust me to be the speaker, i want us to become the solution. one thing i've learned from my upbringing in janeville is not nothing is ever solved by blaming people.

we can blame the president, we can blame the media, and that's kind of fun sometimes. we can point fingers across the aisle. we can blame each other. we can dismiss our critics and criticism as unfair. people don't care about blame. people don't care about effort. people care about results. results that are measurable, results that are meaningful. results that make a difference in their daily lives. i want to be clear about this. i think that we are still an exceptional country with exceptional people, and a republic clearly worth fighting for. the american idea, it's not too late to save, but we are running out of time. and make no mistake, i believe that the ideas and principles of results-driven common-sense conservatism are e coos to a better tomorrow, a tomorrow in which all of god's children are going to be better off than they

are today. the idea that the role of the federal government is not for facilitate dependency, but to create an environment of opportunity for everyone. the idea that government should do less and do it better. the idea that those who serve should say what they mean and mean what they say. the principle that we should all determine the course of our own lives instead of ceding that right to those who think they are better than the rest of us. yes, we will stand and fight when we must, and surely this presidency will require that. a commitment to natural rights, a commitment to common, to compassion to cooperation, and when rooted in genuine conviction and principle, it is a commitment to conservatism. let me close by saying, i considered to do this with

reluctance and i mean that in the most personal of ways. like many of you, jena and i have children in the formative foundational years of their lives. i genuinely worry about the consequences my agreeing to serve will have on them. will they experience the viciousness and incivility that we all face here on a daily basis? but my greatest worry, my greatest worry is the consequence of not stepping up, of someday having my own kids ask me, when the stakes were so high, why didn't you do all you could do? why didn't you stand and fight for my future when you had a chance to do so? none of us wants to hear that question, and none of us should ever have to. i have shown my colleagues what i think success looks like, what i think it takes to unify and lead and how my family commitment comes first. i've left the decisions in their

hands. should they agree with the requests, i am happy and willing to get to work. thank you. chad? >> mr. chairman, thank you. what happened in the past couple weeks. you put out a statement after kevin mccarthy -- you were in -- you said, you know, you had concern about consequences of not serving. is that the underlying issue here? >> that is. paul ryan there expressing his thoughts on what it's going to take for him to assume this position, saying essentially he needs the factions within the republican party in congress and capitol hill to be behind him doing this. back with dana lash, host of dana on the blaze, and also with us ana navarro.

cnn's senior washington correspondent jeff zeleny, let's start with you. i guess not a huge surprise he's agreed finally to do this. there was an awful lot of pressure on him. what do you make of his remarks? >> not a surprise he decided to come to this conclusion. i've never seen so much pressure on a relatively young lawmaker with a bright future to do something like that that he really doesn't want to do. he was serious about that. we hear a lot of political figures say i don't want to do this. he really didn't. i think that he, you know, from mitt romney to some religious figures to john boehner, a lot of people essentially begged him to do this for the good of the house conference. the speaker position we talk about in political terms. it is a constitutional office. the second in line to the presidency, so i'm told that is what weighed on paul ryan's mind here. it is far from clear that he is going to be able to unify this conference. i believe he is serious about saying he will not actually go through with this if he's not able to get a complete unanimous

vote on friday or whenever they actually cast this vote. so it is up to the house republican conference now to sort of tend their own ranks and so sort of govern from within and rally around paul ryan. there's no chance they will get anyone more of a unifying figure here than paul ryan. he's basically left it in their hands. now they need to sort of follow him. >> dana, i'm wondering what pushback you are hearing, mainly from the freedom coalition side. is there a resentment, people feel like they're supposed to pledge loyalty? >> i think there's the expectation if paul ryan is as earnest as he definitely seems to be -- and i don't doubt hi sincerity at all. if he's incredibly earnest about making sure he has their approval, that they are going to back him in this race and they are going to stand behind him as

speakerer, a that maybe he comes with less conditions, and maybe he listens a little bit more, and they can craft a few conditions together. from what i hear, that's been a very big concern with the freedom caucus and the great roots who support and provide a lot of energy and momentum. now, whether or not that's going to happen in the next few days we will see, but a lot of people aren't really surprised. one of the things that we know is paul ryan has been groomed for a very long time. while he was mitt romney's number two on the campaign trail, not everybody forgot about the tarp and the bailouts that i had mentioned before. and if liberty evan gelialism work -- e evan gellism works, then will see if it is unifying.

he's come a long way to recognizing limited spending as well. we we'll see. >> ana, what do you think about his comments tonight? >> i think they were unifies comments, music to my ears. i know paul ryan pretty well, and i know his wife. it was a surprise to me, because i know how much that weighs on him. it was such a big part. he's from janeville, wisconsin. this is not an easy play to commute to. it's not like from new york or miami, a two-hour flight from washington. he knows what's entailed, what's included in being speaker means, you know, a lot of requirements on your time, a lot of stress put on you, and i think it was a huge factor. i think what happened is he went home and they talked about it. they decided it was the best thing and decided the sacrifice for the family was worst trying to move this agenda for the country. >> we'll see what happens in the days ahead. thank you. up next donald trump says president obama is thinking about taking your guns away via executive order. just one recent example trump making basically inaccurate claims. tonight we're keeping them honest. plaque psoriasis... ...isn't it time to let the... ...real you shine... ...through? introducing otezla, apremilast.

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tand that's what we're doings to chat xfinity.rself, we are challenging ourselves to improve every aspect of your experience. and this includes our commitment to being on time. every time. that's why if we're ever late for an appointment, we'll credit your account $20. it's our promise to you. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. welcome back. tonight we're looking at the closer look at some of the statements donald trump has been making. plenty of politicians exaggerate or try to rewrite their own personal history or statements,

but few politicians do it with such bravado as donald trump. when he's questioned about unsubstantiated claims, he usually trying to dodge the question, and of course he'll attack the reporter or try to change the subject. just this morning when talking about the wars after 9/11, trump said it was right for the united states to go into afghanistan. >> we went into iraq, which was a disaster decision, just a disastrous decision. not afghanistan, because that is the is where we should have gone in the first place. >> new day's alyson camerota pointed out that two weeks ago trump said that he said going into afghanistan. trump wasn't hearing it. >> we made a mistake going into iraq. >> our question was about afghanistan. >> okay. it wouldn't matter. i never said it. >> all right. he said he never said that, except he absolutely did say that, two weeks ago. >> you believe that boots should stay on the ground in afghanist afghanistan? >> we made a terrible decision to go in there in the first

place. we had brilliant thinkers, and it is a mess, a real mess. >> this is not the only mess that he is acknowledging. and this is what he said last night about president obama coming for your guns. >> the big second amendment, and we are all big heavy on the second amendment, you know. the president is thinking about signing an executive order where he wants to take your guns away. you hear this one? this is the new -- not going to happen. that won't happen. but that is the tough one. i think it is is a tough one for him to do when you have to actually have a second amendment, that is tough. >> again. alisyn camerota prszed him on this. >> mr. trump, the president has not said that he is going to take away the guns.

>> no, i heard that he wants to, and i think on your network. i didn't say he's signing it, i think that would be a tough one to sign. >> yes, it's impossible to fact. >> i would say it's impossible, but nevertheless he was thinking about it, and you've heard it from newspapers and networks. >> so the source are numerous. there has been somesh to expand background checks for gun buyers. that's a far cry from the president wants to take your guns away. this is all fine if you're talking to your friends in a bar, but if you're the leading candidate, you may think you would need more evident. we've seen this brush-off before. watch what happened when i asked him myself for any proof of another big claims that the mexican government is sending rapists or criminals across the border, by the way immigration officials say there's no evidence to support. >> i think it's common sense. mexico didn't want to house somebody. for 30 years in the prison when the united states will do it. >> but you keep saying that everybody knows that this is the case. >> yes, i think so. i think that the smart people know, and the streetwise people

know, and i think that the border guards know. >> and do you have any evidence? >> well, i you are going to be finding out. you'll find out about it. >> we are still waiting for that evidence. >> the strategy seems to make the wild claims, or just say you heard about it somewhere, or that smart people know about it. >> unlike with other politicians, however, none of this seems to be hurting donald trump at the polls. look at the new cnn/orcp poll. one thing many of mr. trump's supporters say they like him, because he's a so-called truth teller. over the last 24 hours, we've seen examples where that doesn't seem to be true. joining me about it sam clovis, with me again dana lash, host of dana on the blaze, and cnn political commutator, van jones. mr. clovis, so i mean if trump is going to portray himself as this truth teller, shouldn't he be speak iing the truth or admi

when he is caught saying things that he didn't, you know, that he reversing himself on the based on something that he said two weeks before? >> well, i thought that we were going to have a discussion on policy tonight, and i'm sorry this is where it is headed -- >> this is about policy. >> he said he was against going to afghanistan and now is -- >> i don't appreciate this at all. i didn't have any indication this is where we were going to be going with this. i thought that we were going to be talking about policy and where we are in the campaign and the polling and where we are going to be ending up in this thing, but if these are the issues that you want to bring in, fine, and ri will let the other commentators comment on it. >> but you are involved in the policy on afghanistan and i would assume that you are involved in the the policy of taking away the guns. >> i'm involved in the policy on afghanistan, because the president of the united states is still the president. that's the policy that we have. we're not involved in the policy in syria, because that's the policy that we have. we're not going to be able to do anything about any of these things until the 20th of january

in 2017, and then we'll be able to make positive movements on this, because right now we could not anything about what the president of the united states is doing. all we can do is to talk about it and comment on it. >> do you believe the president is really trying to take away guns that he wants to sign an executive order and that's based on reporting. >> i was waiting to come on here when you were broadcasting the news on paul ryan. i was able to do a bit of search on my wonderful phone here, and i was able to find out that he would like very much, your network in fact has reported he has spoken about having a model in america that is much like the united kingdom and in australia and that is to me leads us to confiscations of guns. australia has talked about confiscating and has confiscated guns and it has not worked out for them. and from that perspective, that

is exactly where we are headed if the president has his way, and every time that the president decides to encroach on the second amendment, and i want to make sure that people understand the historical significance of the second amendment. the second amendment is lifted almost verbatim from the bill of rights that was appended to the constitution of england >> and we are not talk about revoking the second amendment. >> and so let's talk about how where we are with this and so if this is what you want to talk about, i'm fine, and we will talk about that. >> i will talk about it, anderson. >> van, what do you make of this? >> part of the problem that we have here now is that the word of the president of the united states is supposed to mean something, you're trying out for a particular job. if you're trying out to be a surgeon, you don't show up dressed like you're showing up for a completely different profession. he is not improving. the problem is he started out saying outrageous stuff.

he gets called on it, he doesn't improve. i don't mind somebody new coming into politics. they don't get everything right. you do expect them to grow, but he is getting worse. the others thing is you cannot see a bigger difference with what you saw with paul ryan and what you're seeing with donald trump. paul ryan showed a level of maturity and political smarts, and said i'm not going to be speaker and end the civil war. end the civil war and i'll become speaker. that is political genius next to donald trump who will say anything and will ott not take any responsibility, and if you can imagine this person being the president of the united states, you are putting the safety of americans at risk and people around the world need to know that when the president speaks, he is telling the truth. >> let me jump in here. dana, let me argue the opposite. i do like to look at things from all points of view and i don't want sam to feel that i'm surprising him if he wasn't aware we were going to talk

about this stuff. you could easily say donald trump should get more leeway, because he's not a professional candidate, not a career politician, and what a lot of his supporters is like will sell he sometimes is speak extem por rainous ly and maybe e is not fully read in on something, but should he get a break that a career politician who has had, you know, the the history of voting maybe not get? >> well, two points on that. first, i will say that donald trump is the pop culture candidate of this particular election cycle, and if anybody understands sound bites, this a guy that i am not aware and maybe he trademarked the phrase "you're fired" and if not, he should get on that. but it is very politician-esque to say, well, i'm not a politician, so i can be excused

from certain thing, and regardless, the thing is that if you are incredibly passionate for limited government and you are auditioning for the most important job, the leader of the free world, you will speak with passion and no room for doubt. on the point of firearms and to mr. clovis' point, i think that donald trump should have used a little bit of specificity when he was discuss iing the confiscation of guns. he was remarking to his credit to remark on the president, and not just the president, but also hillary clinton's praise of the australia's gun laws where where they did of semiautomatic firearms there was a confiscation that took place. >> but that is not what he was talking about in this moment. >> actually, van jones, it was in that context of the of that particular news cycle and it was the president's response on australia's gun laws and private

ownership goes back to the pre-1996 level. so it is important to recognize that, but has there been an e c executive order there? no. and to go back to define who is and who is not a firearms dealer, and if we are going to redefine and which the atf regulates who is and who is not a dealer, then you are looking at creating several federal firearms licensees out of millions of american men and women. >> and mr. clovis, you mention ed the polls, and let me ask you about the number, because it is amazing that all of the pundits have been wrong all along about your candidate from the very early days say ths that he woul not get in and wouldn't show the finances, and michele bachmann and he would fade and all of that has not proved. so i am wondering as you look closely at the numbers do, you see -- i mean, is he unlike any other candidate that you have ever been with in terms of his

ability to -- i mean people talk about teflon candidates and almost doesn't matter that people said, oh, he went too far on john mccain, but none of that turned out to be the case. are you seeing a level of a kind of support for him that you have not seen for other candidates? >> anderson, i think that the very first time you interviewed me, i told you that this is not a regular candidacy and not a normal campaign and not ever been seen in the history of the united states. i have been watching politics since 1956. and i have never seen anything like it, and i have certainly e never been associated with it. you cannot look at the campaign through the regular prism of what we have seen over the past 50 or 60 years in the presidential politics, and you can't, because look at who is ahead. donald trump and ben carson and carly fiorina and ted cruz, the

insurgent, and now starting to see that it is settling in, and in fact, if you look at the polls coming out today, anderson, that donald trump and ben carson actually increased their numbers. >> yeah. >> over a month ago, and so what is goinging on is not normal. this is not and everybody trying to pigeon hole this campaign and this candidate into a particular template is making a grave error. >> yeah, we have to leave it there. >> and we have seen celebrity candidates before, and the differences are that when arnold schwarzenegger ra ran in california he started off ter remember and completely unprepared and he improved through the course of the campaign, but we are not seeing that with trump, and he is getting worse. >> i disagree. >> and i don't believe it is fair to say. but we are out of time, and i don't know if that is fair to say, because a lot of people would say -- >> he is telling more lies. >> well, unfortunately, we have to leave it there for time, but to be continued no doubt.

van jones and thank you, dana loesh and sorry, sam clovis, i am sorry if you were not informed about what we we were going to be talk about, but thank you for coming on. and there is a look of trying to capture the mexican fugitive known as ep chap poe, and it reads like a hollywood script. real madrid have about 450 million fans. we're trying to give them all the feeling of being at the stadium. the microsoft cloud gives us the scalability to communicate exactly the content that people want to see. it will help people connect to their passion of living real madrid. i can offer you no interest sittifor 24 months.oday thanks to the tools and help at experian.com, i know i have an 812 fico score, so i definitely qualify.

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more breaking news tonight. mexican authorities may be closing in on the world's most notorious drug lord. sources say that h was spotted days ago, and marines say that he jumped off of a small cliff injuring his face and possibly breaking his leg, but yet el chapo escapes again. martin savidge is there where he escaped and has this report. >> reporter: authorities say they're close to recaptured. it's not easy. >> for security reasons, we have to keep a low profile, because the risk we face includes

corrupt cops to an army of drug cartel informants who are looking out for just about everything we do. sometimes the video or the audio may not be quite as good as you are accustomed to, because we are not using traditional meas.s >> reporter: last week, officials say they had nearly gotten guzman cornering him in northwest mexico. reportedly mexican marines moved in from the air, getting so close he was injured in the frantic dash to get away, but he got away, much to government embarrassment. locals tell a different story. they describe a less precise military strike, with helicopters raining gunfire indiscriminately down on homes, vehicles and people. guzman escaped from a mexican maximum security prison last july, literally under the guards ease foot through a mile-long tunnel. that isn't out of character for guzman, part of his drug lord

success is due to the extensive use of tunnels to smuggle drugs into the united states. there's a reason that the scene is so focused on sinaloa. it's a place where he obviously feels comfortable and where had was arrested before. and then brought to that high-rise beachfront hotel, kept there for a couple days until authorities could arrange a safe transport back to mexico city. for all these reasons, authorities believe they are close, and the area remains on edge. everyone here knows it is an all-out effort to find the man called the most dangerous criminal in the world, who may be injured, desperate and possibly cornered. there there's a lot that could go wrong. anderson, one other thing that makes the search very difficult -- terrain. he knows this area. he grew up here. so he has every advantage.

plus a lot of the local people here support him in many ways, even though many americans consider what he does is terrible, many here see him as part of the business, part of the economy and they're beholding to him for it. the federal police are out looking. the local police who are looking at us, we're not looking at us for security or other reasons. >> martin, thank you very much. and the cnn special report "the d.c. mansion murder is up now. >> the following is a cnn special report. >> a tight knit family -- >> these are people that really loved each other. >> living a dream. >> they were the perfect example of how you live life. >> this is up with of the worst kinds of crimes that could possibly happen.