there are cause for concerns here. >> let's hope people do get better soon. >> we do. robert and lisa, thanks for joining us. that's it for us. i'm michaela pereira. >> ashleigh banfield takes it over now with "legal view." hello, everyone. i'm ashleigh banfield. our breaking news on ebola in america, we have just learned the name of the second health care worker who's been infected with ebola. we've also just learned that she flew on an airplane the day before being diagnosed with this deadly condition. so if you flew from cleveland to dallas on monday of this week on frontier airlines flight 1143, the centers for disease control and prevention want to talk to you. and they want you to call. reuters news agency is saying that her name, the infected nurse, is amber vinson. and that she, too, helped care

for the late ebola victim, thomas eric duncan, who fell ill and died at texas health presbyterian hospital. just like nurse nina pham who tested positive on sunday. vinson came down with a fever yesterday, just one day after she took that flight. i want to bring in former cnn anchor and now cnn aviation analyst miles o'brien as well as cnn medical analyst dr. alexander van tullikin. and also from atlanta, cnn's dr. sanjay gupta. first to you, sanjay, should other passengers be concerned, considering how much information we've been getting about when you are contagious, when you show symptoms and when you're around other people? break it down for me. >> they're going to be concerned because they got a thing saying they should call the cdc. obviously that's going to raise their concerns understandably. your point is the important one, though, ashleigh. you really don't transmit this virus, spread it until you are sick yourself.

and it sounds like from what we're hearing, if she's being completely honest, that she was not sick until she got back into dallas, developed a fever and 90 minutes later was in isolation. i'm curious what the cdc is going to say to these passengers when they get the call. my guess is they'll say, look, there was a passenger who was subsequently diagnosed with ebola on your plane. we think your risk is very, very low. but you should take your temperature yourself for 21 days. you don't need to quarantine yourself or stay indoors, but take your temperature. we think it's unlikely to show anything. but that's likely going to be their recommendation. >> so, miles, dallas is not like every other city in america in that it has dfw, one of the busiest airports in this country. and this woman flew into dfw. it was a conversation i had with my staff just yesterday. that's the concern for america is that dfw is a hub. what should the airlines be doing right now? >> let's not forget, we're talking about an exchange of fluids that causes the virus to be passed.

just sitting in a metal tube with somebody who may or may not have it is going to give you ebola. the precaution is important. a lot of this goes down to the perception among air travelers. are they going to be concerned about getting on airplanes. and the airline industry needs to stay out in front of this. it doesn't take a huge impact to use these infrared devices to detect people who have a higher temperature and screen them along the way. >> we're not doing it domestically. >> it causes a whole ripple effect of concern which comes out of that. should will be screening in and out of dallas right now? possibly. maybe we should be looking at that. but as we well know, she might very well not have had that fever on that airplane. >> or might not have known she had the fever -- >> and may not have been contagious either. but it does go to perception and the concern that people are getting -- >> let's take your information, right next door, when you say sitting in the metal tube, it

doesn't mean you're going to catch it. but at the same time, whoever had the armrest next to her, whoever got on that flight that might have taken passengers from that gate right back out again without a thorough bleach cleaning of the airplane. we don't know about how long that virus could survive on a surface, do we? >> whether or not it's viable after a few hours is difficult to tell. but mike is right. just being in that metal tube -- we've had other symptomatic people who have traveled by air -- the american national who brought ebola to nigeria and did not pass it on to anyone on the plane. the risks are low. but what we're seeing again, the biggest story is that someone who was exposed to ebola who was supposedly being monitored was allowed to get on a plane. >> allowed to get on an airplane. >> and she could have developed a fever on the plane or she could have got on and said, i

have a bit of a headache, i'll take a tylenol. >> i want to go to elizabeth cohen. elizabeth, do you have any information on this second patient and her identity? and how could she have been flying? >> reporter: there's something i don't understand here, ashleigh. that's that these health care workers, we're told, are now getting daily visit from health officials, daily visits. so unless she did like an up-and-back in a couple of hours to cleveland, she didn't show up for that daily visit. if they're supposed to be getting daily visits, seems like they shouldn't be leaving the dallas airport. i've reached out to state officials. they are very hard to get ahold of. it's hard to get answers out of them. but that's a question that's out there how was she allowed to get on a flight if she was supposed to be getting daily visits from health officials. i don't think anyone is saying that -- well, maybe someone is. but the point isn't should they be quarantined. but you want to let them out of dallas?

that seems a little tricky. >> sitting right next to people. i was on a flight just this week with two small children and those are close quarters. let me bring in sanjay gupta back again for this question. i don't understand these rules of quarantine. some of them are slightly quarantined, which to me defies the purpose completely. some are under monitor. some are under penalty of law not to leave the. pa. how does this work and what's the point of being slightly quarantined? >> well, it's unusual for sure. i think this is part of the confusion. typically when you think of quarantine, you think of someone being quarantined because you want to diminish the risk that that person is to the public's health at large. that is not what we're talking about here with ebola because, again, unless someone is sick, they're really not a threat to the public at large. the reason for people in dallas were quarantined who were friends, family of mr. duncan, was because there was a concern with them that they may not stay in their apartment, that they

may not be able to get their temperatures monitored and they would be hard to track as a result. it wasn't because of a specific concern about the risk to public health. but that was confusing. and then you add in this notion of active surveillance versus passive surveillance. active surveillance means somebody's coming and taking your temperature for you, being there, recording all that. passive is more that you're goi doing it on your own and giving that information to health authorities. there are different levels. it's confusing. but you have to remember the underlying point here is if you're not sick, you're not transmitting the virus. so the quarantine isn't in place for that specific reason. >> yeah. although i'm so concerned about just when you're actually sick, when you know you're running a fever. i'm the worst person to take my temperature. i think it's just hot outside. >> a quick point about that, we think about it in a binary sense, too. you're not contagious at all and if you develop a fever, suddenly your contagious.

that's a little too simplistic. the sicker you are, the more contagious you are. someone with a favor doesn't mean they've gone into the contagious part of things and they're transmitting virus. the reason people get sick is they have a lot of virus in their body and also makes that virus more likely to spill over outside their body. >> could you weigh in on that part? the fact that i have two small children and we share cups and we share -- we spend a lot of close contact together. if someone does develop a fever and you're maybe in the early stages and not as contagious as you would be on day 14, but you're that close to your family -- >> yeah, the closer you are physically to someone, the more likely you are to share bodily fluids. >> even in those early, early stages. >> absolutely right. the higher the viral load in these patient, the more dangerous it is. that's why we see transmissions in hospitals -- >> doesn't it shock you that

thomas eric duncan's partner who was sharing the same bed, the same apartment, for days and days and days, is almost at the end of her 21-day period. it seems astounding that she's okay, as is the son and the two grown family members in the apartment as well. >> the issue you're raising is important. this is why we keep saying this disease is quite hard to catch. for every person who's a nurse wearing protective gear and who has caught it, many more people have been exposed and haven't caught it. the higher the viral load, the easier it is to catch. >> and miles said you just can't catch it in the metal tube. >> but everything here says we have to be much more careful than we're being about people who have been exposed. >> i don't want to be that one chance. you're absolutely right. not highly contagious but highly, highly infectious. if you were on frontier flight 1143, the centers for disease control and prevention would like you to give them a call. the number is 1-800-cdc-info.

that was flight 1143 -- let me be clear on the day that that flight happened. that was on october the 13th. october 13th, flight 1143, frontier flight, cleveland to dallas. i want to ask everybody if you can stay around, please. the nurses who were in that dallas hospital were reportedly pretty darn confused about what protocols they were supposed to be following in just going to their job and caring for their patients. it raises a very big question. are nurses at hospitals around this country being given the information and the proper equipment that they need to protect themselves adequately and protect their patients as well? because don't forget, they're treating other people, too. the president of the national nursing organization is up next. [ female announcer ] this is our new turkey cranberry flatbread before we craft it into a sandwich. the tender, slow-roasted turkey, the zesty cranberry mostarda, the freshly baked flatbread

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welcome back. i want to talk about those scathing allegations that were made by unidentified nurses at texas presbyterian hospital. the workers there do not belong to a union. but here's what they told an organization called national nurses united. for one thing, thomas eric duncan, the liberian national who came to the hospital two times and who died there a week ago, was not put into isolation for hours. what's more, the nurses' protective gear left gaps around their necks. they were told to use medical tape to cover up the gaps. hazardous waste was allowed to pile up from floor to ceiling because they say there was no one to remove it. and there was no formal mandated training. the union leaders say there

seems to have been no plan there at all. have a listen. >> there was no advanced preparedness on what to do with the patient. there was no protocol. there was no system. the nurses were asked to call the infectious disease department. the infectious disease department did not have clear policies to provide either. >> i'm joined from boston now by the co-president of the national nurses united, karen higgins. cnn's dr. sanjay gupta is still with me as well. ms. higgins, if i could just begin with you and the extremely serious allegations being leveled against this hospital, is this a problem at this hospital, at texas presbyterian, or is this something far more widespread? this is something that is systemic around the country? >> i think it's much more widespread. i think we're hearing from nurses across the country that they probably feel as ill-prepared as they did in dallas.

and this is a major concern for all of us that we've been going on and on and on about. and it's time we take this seriously now that we have a second case, is that we have to do better in what we provide for equipment to keep the employees safe, especially those taking care of that patient, and then the second piece is the training. it has to be done. stop pointing fingers and fix the problem and do not let dallas happen again anywhere else in this country. >> i just want to dovetail off of what you just said by something that's breaking right now. i've got a statement from the press secretary at the white house saying that president obama had some travel plan today for new jersey and connecticut and that travel has now been postponed. the reason being that the president late this afternoon is planning to convene a group of cabinet agencies coordinating the government's response to the ebola outbreak. there's going to be apparently something this afternoon. they're not telling us exactly

which agencies, but just cabinet agencies are going to be coordinated. the travel for the president is off to deal with this as well. sanjay, is that the response that ms. higgins was talking about, that there needs to be a bigger response, perhaps at the level of the white house? >> i think ms. higgins is exactly correct. health and human services, also the transportation department will likely be a part of this conference that you just described. it's amazing to me in some ways that we're talking about some of the basic things required in hospitals, as much as we talk about the experimental vaccines and therapies, some of this is just the basics, the bread-and-butter stuff and it wasn't implemented well. the interesting thing, i can't tell if the protocols weren't there, if people really weren't given them or if all that's dwarfed by the fact that the personal protective equipment that i heard in that statement from the nurses union was so deficient. it's pretty remark to believe me

concerning how long in some ways we've been thinking about this as a country. i've been covering this story since april and i know at the cdc, they said over the last several months, we're getting hospitals prepared for this sort of thing. first case example did not seem to work well. >> no, it didn't work well. >> karen, i'd like you to talk more about what the phone calls were like that came to you from these nurses who reported to you these incredible breaches. seems like severe breaches in protocol. especially this first one, that this patient on his second admission was allegedly left in a waiting room. and i believe it's where there might have been up to four other patients, is that accurate? am i getting that right? four other patients -- >> i believe there were. >> what was the complaint, that the nursing supervisor tried to change the circumstance and couldn't? >> it sounded like even she was met with resistance to providing a better place to put this patient. >> like isolation? >> isolation. and, again, it shows you that we were not prepared nor this, that

they were not set up to take this kind of patient. we have infectious disease controls. but we never were prepared to take somebody at this level that needed this kind of care. and i think we saw this. we saw this and i think -- like i said, unless we change what we're doing and make it more of a standard practice for everyone, we're going to see it happen again and we need to stop it. i think that's why we're making a stand to say, enough is enough. stop blaming people. fix the problem -- >> it defies logic. it wasn't four patients who were present in the waiting room, it was up to seven. what would be the defense of someone who suggests to a nursing supervisor who wants to put a patient like eric duncan, thomas eric duncan, in isolation? what would be the defense? don't create first yhysteria? we don't have a proper facility? what's the defense for that? >> there's no defense for that. we knew this was a possibility. we knew how sick these patients

would be. we knew you needed to isolate them. so if you even had a question that this man had that, that should have automatically went into effect immediately. >> sanjay, i always want to play the devil's advocate. i cannot for the life of me think why on earth someone like that would be left in a waiting room. >> let me shoot down what many people may think right away. were we sure he had ebola at the time that he was put in this area with seven other patients? and that doesn't matter. >> yeah, who cares? be cautious. >> if the suspicion is there and you've tested, the point is at that point you have to treat the patient as if they might have ebola until proven otherwise. that's how hospitals work. you want to be conservative. you want to be very, very cautious. it doesn't sound like that happened here. sounds like they were having it both ways. maybe we don't really think he has ebola. we're going to go ahead and test. but we don't think, so we'll put him in a room with other patients -- you can see how

contradictory that is in terms of patient care. >> i want to ask you about the one claim. i want to make sure we're covering all the bases. the fact that there's hazardous waste piling up to the ceiling. i don't think that's hyperbole. would it be fair to say that moving and transporting it was a dangerous job in and of itself and until they had the right contractors in place to do that, to keep it in one isolated area might be the safe way, so we could see both sides of that story? >> as bad as and as dangerous as it is to have all that piling up, it was probably the only thing that they actually did truthfully do is to not move it until they had an idea of how to actually move it. so i don't think that was the wrong thing to do. it was wrong that it had to pile up like that. but, again, goes back to the fact they didn't know what to do. they didn't know how to deal with it. they didn't know what to do. >> that there wasn't a mechanism in place. >> yeah. i just wanted to say, cdc has

stepped up and said, now we'll bring a team in immediately when we hear somebody has ebola. that's good. it's a nice step. but it's not going to fix the problem. you still have to have those standing at the door when this patient comes in, be ready to take care of this patient and do everything they can to be protective of the patient, of everybody else and of everybody that's in contact with them. so it's a great idea for them to get in there. but we can't say, oh, they're going to show up, so we'll be all right. there could be a lot of problems before then. that's not good enough. >> everyone needs to remember the nurses and doctors are on the front lines of this. who else deals with those kinds of fluids but the nurses and doctors and family members, thank you so much, ms. higgins. i really appreciate it. it's good of you to help us navigate through this. sanjay gupta, stick around. other big news, the dow plummeting today, almost 300 points down right now. just a brutal opening. just plummeting right from the opening within a half hour.

what's to cause this? is it ebola? is it the scare? is it the president responding? it's a lot of that. but really there's other big news that's causing that. it's financial news, it's europe, china and the good old stimulus. we'll talk about it in a moment. [ male announcer ] this is the cat that drank the milk... [ meows ] ...and let in the dog that woke the man who drove to the control room [ woman ] driverless mode engaged. find parking space. [ woman ] parking space found. [ male announcer ] ...that secured the data that directed the turbines that powered the farm that made the milk that went to the store that reminded the man to buy the milk that was poured by the girl who loved the cat. [ meows ] the internet of everything is changing everything. cisco. tomorrow starts here.

we have breaking news to bring you. that's what's happening on wall street. as you've been listening to a lot of the scares about ebola, the wall street numbers are plummeting. in fact, as low as 370 points today. there are the numbers right now. alison kosik is keeping an eye on things at the stock exchange.

it's important to put this into perspective and context. while ebola is a big fear and it's making people jittery, it's coinciding with something else. >> reporter: right. i want to be clear about that. ebola fears may be contributing to a little of what you're seeing. but in the big picture, it's really not all about ebola. let me tell you what this is about. what you're seeing happen these days, all this volatility where we're having more down days than up days in the market is you're seeing a rebooting of stocks. and you're seeing investors respond to what they're seeing and what they're seeing is not great. so let me tell you some of the things they're responding to. the data describing the health of the u.s. economy. and that data is quite frankly mediocre. we just got retail sales report for september showing that it fell for the first time in eight months. this is just on the cusp of the holiday shopping season, we're seeing consumers already pulling back. the slowdown in economies around

the eurozone. germany fighting off a third recession in six years. and then we have deflationary worries not just in europe. but there's talk about deflation in the u.s. as well, after we got an inflation report today that came in disappointing. taken individually, all of these reports not necessarily much of a concern. but roll them all together and it creates a snowball effect. then you take a step back and look at the big picture and you say, maybe those record highs we talked about a couple of months ago, maybe those aren't justified considering where the u.s. economy is right now. >> yeah, keep waiting for the real correction. alison kosik on wall street, thank you for that. i want to go over to the white house where jim acosta is standing by. that news that was just breaking a short time ago, that the president's canceled his travel today, do you have any more information on it? >> reporter: the president was supposed to head up to connecticut this evening to do an event with dan malloy. that's off. the president is staying here at

the white house. he's going to hold a meeting this afternoon with cabinet officials that are dealing with the ebola outbreak. we'll hear from the president. he'll make brief remarks at the conclusion of that meeting, as far as we understand right now. but, ashleigh, in just a few minutes, the white house press briefing will be started. and you can imagine that white house press secretary josh earnest is going to be peppered with questions about the cdc's response to that situation in dallas. the president has been briefed. we have been told that, about this new ebola patient in dallas by his counterterrorism adviser and homeland security adviser, lisa monaco who is coordinating the response to the ebola outbreak in west africa and the response here in the united states. as you know, there have been lots of questions as to whether or not the president needs an ebola czar, whether or not the cdc is doing all the right things at this point. so lots f of questions for josh earnest when this briefing gets started. >> one more question for you, this news coming to the

president from homeland security, the statement that came out was cryptic in that it was lacking a lot of information on who those cabinet agencies will be. sanjay gupta alluded to the natural, which would be the health and human services, the department of transportation, my guess is the cdc would be involved and you suggested homeland security. any other thoughts on what agencies need to be involved? >> reporter: that is an issue here, ashleigh. the department of defense is also involved. they're sending somewhere in the neighborhood of 4,000 troops over to west africa to set up those hospital facilities in that part of the world that is really grappling with this ebola outbreak. so the president wants to hear from all of them. the department of transportation is obviously very important because this latest ebola patient was traveling on frontier airlines, according to the cdc, before she or he was exhibiting symptoms. and so that is something that the department of transportation is going to track down. so this is mushrooming into even though only two patients at this point have contracted the virus

that were caring for thomas duncan, it's mushrooming into a larger governmental problem for this administration. the president has to administrate he's on top of it. >> yeah, i find it fascinating to hear d.o.d. jim, thank you. jim just mentioned it. talked about the military and talked about that kind of an involvement as well. but if someone shows up as a hospital with ebola, let's go down to the base level, what should happen to that patient? should that patient be treated right there at that hospital or should that patient be transported somewhere farther away to one of the few hospitals in the u.s. that has specialized units that can deal with a patient exactly like that? we'll talk about that in a moment.

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or visit goxarelto.com i won this 55 inch tv for less than $30 on dealdash.com. visit dealdash.com for great deals. and start bidding today! want to keep an eye on our live camera in washington, d.c. where the white house is set to give us a live briefing. all of this just coming moments after we learned that the president has canceled his travel schedule today. he was set to travel to new jersey and connecticut to meet with the governor of connecticut, in fact. that is off the menu at this point. there is instead a new meeting that is on the agenda for late this afternoon where the president is said to be planning a meeting with several cabinet agencies. unnamed as of yet. but a good guess considering

this is about ebola, the health and human services agency, probably the department of transportation, possibly the cdc, homeland security, the person who's been informing the president of what's happening in dallas, and perhaps the department of defense as well. while we are waiting for this white house briefing, on the right-hand side of your screen, you're probably wondering why you're seeing the weather map. that's because there is officially a tornado warning issued for the district of columbia. there is the live image right now of the capitol building. i want to bring in chad myers for a bit more information. this came out of nowhere. tell me the story and how long this is going to be up for. >> for a few more minutes. the rotation that i see now on doppler radar is east of national airport over anacostia moving up southeast and maybe towards college park. but the center of the circulation right there, that would be national. this would be the mall right through here, moving to the northeast rather quickly and eventually -- i used to live right there in green bell.

this is going to move up toward the northeast at 45 miles per hour. even if you're not under that circulation that i just talked about, we're going to get wind gusts here all the way down across the beltway, up here across bethesda into all of northwest d.c. including the george washington area, up the bridge, and the b.w. parkway. a tornado warning in effect right now. if you are in anacostia up to almost college park, in that line, take cover now. get inside a building, get away from the windows. get to the lowest level, if you can. this is not a big tornado. but you could always get damage with 100-mile-per-hour tornado if it's over your house, that is a big deal. and there's a lot of population density in here. this is why we're worried about this storm. >> and also the capitol, if there are people watching this right now, those are very sturdy buildings. however, there are other places to be finding shelter other than offices, correct? >> whatever you can do, get away from the windows. you don't want to be in your office building looking outside,

looking to see the storm. i want you away from those windows because that's the first thing that would break. one tree limb could break that window. and if you're standing by that window, you're cut by a tornado or by an event that's far away from you. so you're putting yourself in danger if you're by the windows. there's the center of circulation. here's the national mall. this area, wind gusts probably 40 or 50 miles per hour. and all those big old trees in d.c. when you get wind like that, they all want to topple over. it's been wet as well in d.c. so the roots are wet. things could be toppling over now even as we speak with the main circulation being right there where the red and the green are turning right there on the last graphic. that will eventually go across and over out of d.c. and into parts of maryland as well. >> chad keeping an eye on that for us. let us know what that story is. if you are in the d.c. area, please take cover now. this tornado warning is set for several more minutes from now. at least until 1:00. so be very, very careful and

keep your on a radio or some kind of communication. also following the live breaking elements of the ebola story. if you're just turning on the news right now, yet another health care worker, a nurse, has been infected. you've probably heard about nina pham. this is not her. this is yet another nurse at texas presbyterian hospital who has tested positive for ebola. the hospital responding, a nurses union responding. a lot of complaints about the hospital, the way the cdc has managed this. and the president himself now canceling travel today to instead convene top cabinet agencies to deal with this crisis. the news is breaking. we have a lot more of it right after this. ♪ [ male announcer ] you wouldn't ignore signs of damage in your home. are you sure you're not ignoring them in your body? even if you're treating your crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis, an occasional flare may be a sign of damaging inflammation. and if you ignore the signs, the more debilitating your symptoms could become. learn more about the role

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the ultimate arena for business. hour after hour of diving deep, touching base, and putting ducks in rows. the only problem with conference calls: eventually they have to end. unless you have the comcast business voiceedge mobile app. it lets you switch seamlessly from your desk phone to your mobile with no interruptions. i've never felt so alive. get the future of phone and the phones are free. comcast business. built for business. welcome back. we're keeping a live eye on the cdc. apparently ready to have a news conference at any moment. while we watch that live mike, think of this, there are

precious few facilities across the united states that are specially equipped to safely treat ebola patients. they're actually called biocontainment units. and there are certain hospitals that can actually deal with it with designated rooms and areas that can treat highly infectious patients. there are only four, four of these centers in the united states. sanjay gupta was showing you some of the uniforms and the protective equipment that some people are using. but not everybody gets them and everybody has different protocols. but those four containment units i talked about, st. patrick hospital in missoula, montana, emory university hospital in atlanta, the national institutes of health in bethesda, maryland, and the university of nebraska medical center in omaha, four. you may think these four have a lot of beds, right, that could handle a lot of patients? surely they could handle a real outbreak across the country. but we're finding out that's not even close to being the case. i want to bring back cnn's chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta and also joining me, gavin

mcgregor. i was astounded to hear the number. there's basically like 11 beds total that can be function gnat at any given time. is that really true? >> we're talking about very specific biocontainment units that could protect people against a wide variety of infectious diseases, including things that are airborne, keep in mind. this is not airborne. so i visited the -- emory, i took care of two patients. they have a much more sophisticated system, they say, than probably you really need to take care of ebola. i hesitate a little bit saying that because things haven't gone so well in dallas. does that sort of indicate that only these four centers can take care of patients with ebola or that things didn't go well in dallas? and we should implement what we know how to do better so that all these other hospitals where

patients may show up over the weeks, months and years to come can take care of ebola patients. i think it's hard to send them just to these four places. >> one of the things i worry about -- and i'm sure if this is something on your radar, gavin. but with all the concerns happening and now two health care workers who got sick after being in contact with thomas eric duncan who has now died, should we be concerned that medical professionals aren't going to go to work because it is too dangerous and there are not the right protocols or at least there aren't consistent protocols in place at hospitals across the country? >> we have to focus on the health care workers here in the u.s. and determine the level of protection required for ebola, we conduct risk assessments and when we do that at u.s. hospitals throughout the country, we know that when you put on the protective equipment, no piece of your skin, your body should be showing. you have to be completely covered up. as long as we stick with that protocol -- we've been dealing with ebola since 1976. we've always done it like this. we have to come up with consistent approaches for all

u.s. hospitals, all health care staff. that's not what we're doing at the moment. >> let me ask you this -- i was astounded to see two different sets of equipment just on you, sanjay, as you showed the fantastic demonstration. here's the video you put together of you trying to take off what could be contaminated gear. and this is with the double glove and the surgical gown, the face and the glasses. if we compare what you're doing and what you were wearing, these protocols which are, i believe, cdc protocols, to what the actual head of the cdc was putting on when he was in west africa, this is video that was shot while he was on a visit back in august to liberia, this is remarkable. one is a spaceman and the other is just someone who works in an e.r.

i'm not sure i understand why the protocols for the united states would be so vastly different than what, say, looks like an outpost in africa. sanjay, can you answer that? >> i wish i could give you a better answer. i know that dr. frieden was visiting an ebola ward during that time. he was not taking direct care of patients. one could argue all these confusing protocols out there -- they say if you're not in direct contact with patients, you don't need quite the same coverage. and yet as you point out, i saw it as well, the head of the cdc in africa not taking care of patients and yet in that full protective suit. i can tell you the doctors without borders have been taking care of patients in many places that are tough spots, rural, central and western africa, and have had very good track record of not having patients transmit the virus to health care workers. they have had a couple but not many, considering thousands of patients they've cared for. that seems to work.

back to your earlier question, should we transfer patients to just these four centers or can we do at these big hospitals what people have been able to do in really tough parts of the world successfully? why can't we do that here? >> right. it's just remarkable. i want to come to the defense of dr. frieden in that that may have been the only gear protocol that was available to him at the time. so he put on what was there for him as opposed to he chose to have something much better than his own protocol back here in the united states. why are you shaking your head? >> the level of protection is based on risk, a risk assessment. and the risk here is looking at the patient. ebola patients after they develop a fever rapidly go into having lots of projectile vomiting and projectile diarrhea. it contains billions of virus that splash around in the environment in the room you're working in. if you're not totally protected, 100% covered up with no exposed surfaces, you're going to get ebola virus on your body.

the cdc guidance for putting on and taking off that protective gear, it's not sufficient for ebola virus. >> and you don't have a buddy who's watching you. from what i've experienced and heard from those who have been there, in west africa there's a buddy system and it's someone who is not dealing with the stress of what you've just witnessed of people dying and people in horrible illness. it's someone whose job is just to watch your protocol to make sure you doff your equipment properly. sanjay, simple question that i'm not sure you or anyone else is going to be able to answer. in france, their protocol is to dip your gloves in bleach and to bleach your equipment and your gowns and everything before you take them off, to kill any virus that might be on it. before it can get on your skin. if we could roll that video of you taking your suit off and getting the chocolate sauce on your arm to show how simple this is, why is that, sanjay?

why wouldn't we dip ourselves in bleach before we do what you're showing us right now? >> i think we're doigoing to hea change in protocol, ashleigh. it should be done. that's a fairly easy step. when i was in guinea, that is what people did. you dipped your gloves in, you took one layer of gloves off, you dipped your gloves in, took the second layer off. and they had a spray bottle, they sprayed down your gown to give you every chance at not actually having any contact with any possible contamination. why it seems -- gavin has seen it firsthand. but i was shocked, too, that the cdc protocol left a large part of my neck exposed. why wouldn't you give yourself every opportunity to be safe? there is a balance. you don't want to put so much gear on that you can't actually do your job. we've seen these doctors in tough areas around the world do their jobs and be safe at the same time -- >> the nurse -- what you just

said, the nurses union was very upset these nurses had their necked exposed and the patchwork panacea was to put medical tape on it -- if you pull that off, could create an abrasion where potentially an infection site. dr. alexander van tulleken suggested the only kind of gloves anyone should be wearing if they're dealing with ebola patients are something, the purple gloves, if there's a breach in the gloves, you can see yourself through the gloves as opposed to the latex gloves where you can't spot a breach? >> a lot of people have allergic reactions to latex. but i want to say one thing about cdc has a hospital preparedness ebola checklist guidance on their website. on page three of that website, they say, use the buddy system for patient care and for putting on and taking off p.p.e. it's not just about the buddy system. it's about hospitals having the

management, the implementation and the supervision systems in place and having an observer with a checklist. we don't do this in hospitals often at all. but for ebola, you need a person, an observer with a checklist to say, you just made a mistake, let's fix it right now and decrease the risk and that's not happening. >> that buddy system we were just talking about, so critical. speaking of the cdc, we're watching that live news conference, set to get under way at any moment. thank you both for your insight. it's been so valuable to us. again, a live news conference is coming to us. as we wait for the cdc to give us any new information on what's happening in dallas and elsewhere in the country knowing now that the latest victim to test positive for ebola had a flight the day before, frontier airlines flight 1143 on october 13th from cleveland to dallas, we are also learning new information about that patient, amber vinson, according to reuters, is her name. and elizabeth cohen is going to come to us live with that new information.

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promote a safe environment for the care of everyone at that hospital, for the patients and for the health care workers. we have continued with our intensive investigation and interventions to understand what may have happened and to increase safety. our investigations increasingly suggest that the first several days before the patient was diagnosed appear to be the highest-risk period. that was the 28th, 29th and 30th. these two health care workers both worked on those days and both had extensive contact with the patient when the patient had extensive production of body fluids because of vomiting and diarrhea. today we are continuing to

intensively assess the exposures of all other health care workers at that facility to identify how many others may have had that level of intensive contact. i will note that those days are days prior to diagnosis and prior to when the cdc team was on the ground. in terms of contacts, there were 48 contacts to mr. duncan before he was isolated, none of them have developed symptoms so far. there was one contact of the first health care worker before she was isolated. that individual has not developed symptoms at this point. for the second health care worker, the individual diagnosed today, we have identified three contacts at this point before isolation. going back to the care of mr. duncan, there are approximately 50 other health care workers who

entered the patient room during the time of his hospitalization. we're reviewing those and ensuring intensive follow-up of all of those individuals. we're also planning for other eventualities in case we get additional cases in the coming days. i'll turn it over to mr. skinner for questions. >> holly, i believe we're ready for questions, please. >> thank you. if you would like to ask a question at this time, please press star 1 an your touch tone phone. to withdraw your request, press star 2. star 1 to ask a question and kate snow with the nbc news, your line is open. >> hi, good afternoon. i'm wondering if you could clarify anything about what these two women were doing exactly, what kind of roles they had in the hospital? and is there any indication as

to how they may have become infected? thank you. >> director frieden, i'll turn that to you. >> thank you. it has been stated publicly that the first patient is a nurse. i will just say that the second patient as well as the first had extensive contact with the patient when they were having substantial amounts of both vomiting and diarrhea. the assessment of the team is that in those first several days in the hospital, a variety of forms of personal protective equipment were used. there are several ways to use personal protective equipment safely. it's critical that that be done consistently and correctly. and that's one of the areas of active investigation.