usually not the first line will be the dna. but keep in mind, you have to compare the person's dna to something. keep in mind they're now decomposed. it's going to be difficult to get their blood. you're going to have to use other items. and you're going to have to either compare -- >> i've just got to wrap up. we're losing your satellite. dr. jen garvali, appreciate it. thanks very much for watching. we'll be back at 8:00 tonight for a special two-hour edition of "anderson cooper 360." wolf from jerusalem starts now. right now, the faa bans u.s. planes from flying into or out of israel after a rocket attack near the country's main airport. israel says this move is an overreaction and, quote, gives a prize to terror. also right now, stop fighting, start talking. that's the message from the u.n. secretary-general to the israelis and palestinians. the u.s. secretary of state john

kerry is expected to fly here to jerusalem at some point soon. also right now, a belgium plane is on the way to ukraine to pick up the flight data recorders from malaysia air flight 17. the question now what, if anything, can those black boxes tell us. hello, i'm wolf blitzer reporting from washington. i'd like to welcome our viewers from the united states and around the world. an update now on the breaking news we're following. the crisis in the middle east now affecting international air travel. first, several u.s. carriers started suspending flights into and out of israel. now the faa back in washington is prohibiting those flights by all u.s. airline because of the fighting between israel and hamas. the move comes after a rocket landed on a house close to ben gurion international airport, just outside tel aviv. cnn's rene marsh joining us from washington. rene, first of all, which

airlines, roughly how many flights are affected? why did the faa decide to take this extraordinary step? >> well, wolf, we can tell you, as far as the airlines go, what cnn has been able to confirm so far, we know delta, us airways, united, they say they have suspended their operations to and from tel aviv. air canada has also told cnn that they are simply evaluating the situation. so we're waiting to hear if they will follow the lead of these u.s. carriers. going back to the faa statement, we do know, now, that they are prohibiting all u.s. airlines -- they have come out, said this within a notice, that they will not be allowed to fly to and from the airport there in tel aviv for a period of up to 24 hours. and after that 24 hours passed, they will re-evaluate the situation and issue another in

the notice. all of this, it's a result of that rocket strike. they say it landed approximately a mile from the airport. so of course that raises security concerns. before this announcement from the faa, we saw the airlines, they were taking action on their own, choosing to cancel their flights, but now we have word from the faa, no u.s. carriers should be flying to or from that airport in tel aviv. wolf. >> it looks like there's a republic ripple effect going on because we're just getting word from our richard quest lufthansa has suspended all flights in and out of israel for 36 hours as they re-evaluate the situation. el al, the israeli carrier, will still fly nonstop between israel and the united states, and between israel and places in europe and elsewhere. this is a significant development. i take it in part the faa,

united, us airways, they're also airing on the side of caution. right now, it's a very sensitive situation. what are you hearing? >> absolutely, because, you know, just moments after this flight was shot down and we realized that was what the situation was, the question then became why was this plane in that airspace, and the answer has been that airspace was not restricted and so the question became why not. so now i think what we're seeing now is people, agencies, whether it's the faa, or whether it's their international counterparts as well as the airliners, they're not taking any chances. again, a big lesson learned here following flight 17 in which originally it was believed that flight would have been safe if it was flying above 32,000 feet. it was flying at 33,000 feet.

that situation proved everyone wrong, that it was not a safe situation. so i think what we're seeing now is reevaluation process so to speak. people just not wanting to have another situation like this unfold. just taking every precaution possible, wolf. >> as i said, erring on the side of caution. rene, stand by. i want to go to ben gurion airport right now. atika shubert has made her way there. less than a mile or so, a rocket from gaza, from hamas landed near ben gurion airport. there have been others that have landed not far away from ben gurion airport. last week, hamas issued a statement, telling international carriers don't fly to israel anymore because your planes could be in danger. what are you seeing there, atika, and what's been the reaction you're getting from israelis? >> well, i'm actually in the town of yahoud.

this is where the rocket landed, almost completely destroying a house there. so it is a concern. having said that, we've been seeing planes landing and departing now every few minutes. so in many way, the ben gurion airport is operating as normal. but obviously, this could have a very significant effect if now the u.s. airlines are not flying here and lufthansa has redirected it could have a knock-on effect with many airlines and that could have a terrible blow to the economy, especially in israel. israel's transportation minister has already come out criticizing the u.s. airline, telling them they shouldn't be redirecting their flights, and specifically saying that by doing this, they were, quote, giving a prize to terrorists. this is from israel's transportation minister, israel katz. so clearly israel very upset with this. but what can it do if all of these airlines are taking this decision and erring on the side of caution. we'll have to see how many more follow in the foot steps of delta, us airways and united

airlines. >> now apparently lufthansa as well. we'll see if air canada and other international carriers do. you're absolutely right, this could be a significant blow to israel's economy if tourism almost completely dries up. stand by. i want to get some analysis now on ways going on. joining us here in jerusalem is the former israeli ambassador to the united states. also joining us on the phone is michael goldfar, the former faa chief of staff. mr. ambassador, first to you, you spent several years in washington. you know the faa doesn't make these kinds of decision easily. are they doing the right thing, erring on the side of caution? >> well, the short answer is no. not being disrespectful to the faa, but i think this is the wrong dealing with the situation. first of all, el al, which is known for its high standards of security, is flying in and out. i think air canada is still flying. so from the perspective of danger, there is no danger

whatsoever. we've been receiving all these rockets for almost 30 days now. it's not the situation of the malaysian airline which was hit directly by a specific missile that was supplied by the russians, to the russian separatists. they cannot hurt our airlines. so this is the first thing. and safety of course is above everything. and safety has not been compromised whatsoever. >> let me ask michael goldfar about that. you worked at the faa for a long time. clearly a decision like this is not an easy decision by the faa. give us your take. >> i respectfully disagree with the ambassador. i think it's a good decision for israel in the longer term because it puts the government who has the technical information, who understands the risk, as opposed to each individual airline, in the position of making these determinations. what would happen if the faa didn't step in, when would delta resume flights into tel aviv, when would american resume flights, on the basis of what

information? so the government needs to take these steps. whether it's safe or not, it's the perception of risk and the perception is high. clearly covered by mh-17. but nonetheless, it's a time-out, a time to put a more orderly process in place, wolf, to see how one can resume, safely, flights into the airfield. >> michael, i assume that it's not just the rocket that landed within a mile or so of ben gurion airport, did destroy pretty much that house we've been showing our viewers that picture, and it's probably not just the threat that was issued by hamas last week warning international carriers don't fly in and out of israel. i assume the faa would only do this if they had some other information that would reinforce that fear, that notion, don't fly to israel. and i ask that question, if -- based on your experience at the faa. >> i do believe there's other information they have. i think the backdrop has to be what happened in the ukraine.

i mean, it basically blew apart the whole theory of when hand-held missiles or ground missiles could reach civil airlines, civil aviation, at 32,000 or 33,000 feet. and now the question really is, and it will be a debate, whether other governments will follow suit, and handle airspace and airspace restriction, as opposed to leaving it up to each individual airline. a pilot is not in a position to make decisions of safety and security threats. the airlines operations don't get that kind of information. so i think it is somewhat of a game changer long-term. but it gives a pause, allows a more orderly way to resume flights safely. >> ambassador, it's not a coincidence, as you probably know, you spent, what, four or five years as the israeli ambassador in washington. this follows the state department travel advisory that was issued last night. warning all americans to stay away from israel, except for if -- to stay away for everything, except for essential business in israel, nonessential

travel to israel, they say, should not take place. certainly they're advising against any travel whatsoever to gaza. the state department issues a travel advisory like this, saying don't go to israel if you don't have to right now. now the faa canceling all u.s. airline flights here. do you remember a time when this was something like this was happening? >> never the faa. i think trying to remotely compare the situation here in gaza and the ukraine, and the malaysian is totally wrong. statistically to hit ben gurion airport is the same statistics to hit, now, cairo airport or amman in jordan or many in between. the faa is not stopping all flights to the middle east. again, on the merit of security, security is not compromised, safety is not compromised, number one. secondly, from the broader perspective this can wreak havoc on all air civil aviation worldwide. because if the lesson from hamas

that any rogue organization can threat countries and airlines and they will stop and heed to this, then i don't think there is much hope for the international economy. so i think this is wrong, and i hope they will reconsider soon. >> the faa? >> absolutely. >> a lot will depend if there's a cease-fire and things get back to normal, maybe they will. >> even without a cease fire we've been sustaining this for 30 days. nothing is going to happen in the airport. and i think if they look and do their analysis, they will find out that this was a decision to be reversed. >> mr. ambassador, i want you to stay with us. i have some other questions on the efforts for the cease-fire. that's coming up. michael, thanks very much for joining us. we'll stay on top of the breaking news. there's other news we're following, including here on the ground, diplomats are intensifying the push to end the bloodshed, but there does not, at least for now, does not appear to be any progress in sight. here are the latest developments

we're following right now. a fresh round of explosions rocked gaza today. black smoke filled the air. as israeli forces pounded more targets. hamas fired more rockets in israel. secretary of state john kerry's expected to come to jerusalem at some point. he's trying to help broker a cease-fire. he's still in cairo. earlier, the secretary said talks have been constructive thus far. u.n. secretary-general ban ki-moon had a blunt message for both sides in the conflict, stop fighting and start talking. ban held a joint appearance with the israeli prime minister netanyahu in tel aviv. the israeli leader says the goal of hamas is not peace but israel's destruction. >> hamas is like isis. hamas is like al qaeda. hamas is like hezbollah. hamas is like boca harn.

there's so many others of these groups that reject pluralism, that reject respect of human rights, that use their own people as human shields, that attack indiscriminately civilians. this is part of a larger pattern. what grievance can we solve for hamas? their grievance is we exist. they don't want a two-state solution. they don't want any state solution. >> the israeli military added to the uncertainty today to the fate of one of its shoulders and to hamas' claim it captured an israeli soldier. israeli initially denied the claim but then said they were looking into it. today saying they still have not identified the remains of a soldier killed in an atock tack sunday. israeli media reported the soldier is missing and presumed dead. the former secretary of state madeleine albright shares her thoughts about the situation in the middle east and you may be surprised about what she's saying about israel's reaction.

but first, the latest on the investigation into flight mh-17. the plane's black boxes have been handed over to investigators. so what happens now? to pitch in for an industrial-sized smoker. before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time. and 2% back at the grocery store. even before he got 3% back on gas. all with no hoops to jump through. norm used his bankamericard cash rewards credit card to enter the bbq masters invitational. where he smoked 40 pounds of ribs and the competition. that's the satisfaction of rewarding connections. apply online or at a bank of america near you.

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flight 17. the president pledged to work with the dutch to find justice for the victims. now to latest developments on the downing of the plane. the 282 bodies that have been recovered so far have been taken in refrigerated train cars to kharkiv. they were handed over to dutch authorities who are expected to fly them home some time tomorrow and begin the very grim task of identification. pro-russian rebels in ukraine have controlled the crash site. they have handed over the plane's two black boxes to dutch authorities. they will be taken to london where accident investigators will go through them, including a u.s. investigator from the ntsb, the national transportation safety board. meanwhile, evidence continues to grow that the plane was taken out by a surface to air missile. the u.s. says it has tracked the missile's trajectory and its point of dent nation with the plane. and new video also appears to show wreckage from mh-17 pepp

peppered with shrapnel holes. australia's prime minister says he had enough of the way the crash site and the investigation was being handled. >> after the crime, comes the cover-up. what we have seen is evidence tampering on an industrial scale. and obviously that has to stop. >> let's bring in nick paton walsh joining us on the phone from khakrkv. the bodies of most of the victims have been handed over to dutch officials. ways happening now and what happens next? >> well, i'm standing outside the factory where many of these bodies -- well, all the bodies as far as we're aware, have been brought by train this morning. now the dutch officials in there, together with u.n., are overseeing all the various international groups who have come here to assist in this operation. beginning with the delicate task of taking the bodies from the refrigerated train and being put

into the coffins which will be floeb back to the netherlands. that's not going to start happening until some point tomorrow. i spoke to a malaysian security official here. he suggested it may happen a little earlier. and he also went on to say he traveled on the train with the bodies from the crash site through here to kharkiv and 282 of them have been presented by the separatists in what he referred to as in good condition. as they were actually mostly intact. he mentioned there were 87 body parts handed over as well. that turns out to be the case it provides potentially a quicker easier job for many of the officials combing through, trying to work out who these people certainly are, and that may bring some solace to relatives looking to bury them soon, wolf. >> 298 people were aboard that plane. what are officials there where you are telling you about the overall investigation? >> the investigation here is just beginning to get under way.

there are malaysian investigators at the site, as you mentioned. there are real concern for many of the citizens on that plane, that there is a bid to try and remove evidence, tamper with evidence. the osce monitors who were here to monitor the conflict instead have been dragged in to try and assist with the aftermath of this air crash. they said while initially there were problems with the access, that has eased subsequent to that. we're seeing the black boxes being taken to the united kingdom. an official from the ntsb has joined in to look at the contents of those black boxes. weeks forward, it will become clear what evidence was on that plane, damage done by the missile, if that is the case, and what conclusions can be drawn from that, wolf. >> our nick paton walsh on the

scene, a very grim scene. coming up later this hour, richard quest is going to join us. we're going to speak also with a senior official from malaysia airlines. wheat get more on that what airline can tell us about the investigation. richard and i will speak with that official. that's happening about 20 minutes or so from now. can the bloodshed here in the middle east be stopped? the former secretary of state madeleine albright is now weighing in with some surprising words. that's ahead. lly have time for brown spots? [ female announcer ] aveeno® introduces new positively radiant targeted tone corrector. it helps reduce the look of stubborn brown spots in just two weeks. what are you waiting for? aveeno®. naturally beautiful results™. ♪he cadillac summer. collection is here. ♪

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how hard that can be, madeleine albright. a veteran u.s. diplomat, the first woman to ever serve as the u.s. secretary of state. i began by asking her what the u.s. can do to facilitate peace between hamas and the israelis. >> i think secretary kerry is doing everything he can. he's in cairo. the point here is there has to be some kind of a cease-fire. a cease-fire that hamas has to accept. because in the past, prime minister netanyahu has accepted times of cease-fire and it's hamas that's not accepted it. i think the point has to be made, if rockets are being shot at israel, that israel does have a right to defend itself. but the bottom line is the question of proportionality and then trying to figure out what the solution is and we know, frankly, you do, wolf, we talked about this over the years, there has to be a way that palestinian is recognized, that there's a

two-state solution, that the various points that have been put on the table over the years are met. we do care, most of us, about the security of israel. but it cannot have that security if there's not a two-state solution. and i think secretary kerry has done an amazing job in pushing, but ultimately, it has to be the political will of the parties to bring this to the table. but now there has to be a cease-fire. >> are you suggesting, madam secretary, that the israelis are overreacting to the provocation, the rockets and missiles coming in? are they going too far when you use the word proportionality? >> i think it's very hard to watch the number of palestinians that are being killed, innocents. it is hard to dispute the fact that, as prime minister netanyahu has said, that, in fact, there are innocents being put in the way in order to act as shields. but the bottom line is i think that this is hurting israel's

moral authority. i do think that it looks as though they are overdoing, which is why i think there has to be more emphasis on the fact that they have accepted the cease-fire. and then try and figure out who has any influence over hamas in order to get them to accept a cease-fire. they say they will not accept until the rockets stop. and the bottom line is they have to -- that's the only way to stop everything, is to have a cease-fire. >> so is secretary albright right? is israel overdoing it? are civilian casualties hurting israel's moral authority? i'll ask the former israeli ambassador about the criticism and we'll also hear later this hour from nabil shaath. former palestinian prime minister. he's in ramallah. we're continuing to follow the breaking news. a? even if you're healthy and active. phillips digestive health support is a duo-probiotic

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the israeli military says it's battling a growing threat from juunderground. nicknamed lower gaza. so far 23 tunnels have been found running from gaza into israel. cnn's martin savidge has a closer look. >> reporter: the same thing that has challenged and slowed israeli soldiers in gaza is now

spilling the war out of gaza into israel. tunnels. early monday, israel defense forces say two terrorist squads of hamas militants used tunnels to infiltrate israel, possibly intended to launch an attack on civilians. this as israeli military video is said to show five of those hamas fighters, first crouching in the brush, then firing on nearby israeli soldiers. at one point, one of the men can be seen reloading. then, as the israelis returned fire, the militants appeared to retreat back to their tunnel when an israeli air strike hits. the incident forced area roads to close. residents to shelter in their homes. and tied up security forces for hours. the military says ten hamas militants were killed and a number wounded. inside gaza, the idf says a well-organized and deeply entrenched network of tunnels

has hampered israeli movement. allowing hamas to pop up unexpectedly, firing on soldiers or tossing grenades before dropping back out of sight. israeli military officials refer to the undergroundworks as lower gaza and suggest some of the war is being waged underground. engineers meth thoughtically work to destroy them. using heavy earth moving equipment or explosives. israel believes there are many more tunnels yet to be found. and as soldiers battle through gaza streets, another danger lurks just beneath their feet. martin savidge, cnn, jerusalem. >> joining us from west bank, ramallah, specifically, the former palestinian foreign policy nabil shaath. thank you for joining us. the israelis say it's one thing when the palestinians in gaza had tunnels going into sinai to smuggle food or stuff like that. it's another thing to have these tunnels coming into israel,

where palestinian hamas militants can cross in and try to kill israelis. bottom line, is israel justified in going after these tunnels from gaza into israel? >> well, in this case, this is a clear case of self-defense. i mean, these are attacking soldiers into gaza. they're attacking to gaza. there are people who are fighting back to stop soldiers from invading gaza. this is a case of pure self-defense. this is not a case in which these soldiers, these hamas soldiers are attacking israel. they're just fighting back the israeli attack, the military attack on gaza. i don't see it really where the moral or the political or the legal problem here is. israel should stop its onslaught on gaza and then there will be, really, no tunnels of any use to fight back. these are tunnels inside gaza as

mon much as i know. >> as far as you know right now, i know you're very aware of what's going on, how close is israel and hamas, at least to a temporary cease-fire for humanitarian reasons? because last night, we heard maybe there's been some progress. have you heard of anything that could give any encouragement to those who want a cease-fire? >> well, everybody -- we are at least here and everybody else in the region is working for a cease-fire. abuse mazen, mr. abbas, our leader, just arised to see mr. ban ki-moon and i'll be seeing him also within a few minute, but he had really been all around, from cairo to istan. we are meeting with him in an hour in order to brief us fully on the development of the cease-fire arrangement.

i do not really have much information now to assess the probability. but i would say that a cease-fire is desirable by everybody to stop the real horrors we are seeing in gaza. that 20 full families ranging between 6 and 17 members have been killed. 600 palestinians have been killed. 40% of them children. therefore, we need to stop fire. but we need an assurance that once that cease-fire is on, that israel will abide by earlier commitments not to put siege around gaza, not to make gaza in a draconian siege situation where people are deprived of any rights to survive. people of gaza need to live in peace so that we can end once and for all this situation and move towards a real peace process that ends the israeli

occupation and creates a two-state solution. the two have to be -- >> did ham has make a mistake last week -- did hamas make a mistake last week in rejecting the egyptian proposal for a cease-fire, which israel accepted but hamas did not? >> we tried our best to get hamas to accept that cease-fire. all that hamas needed was a real assurance that if it accepts the cease-fire, the israeli ground attack will withdraw and there will be some sort of international commitment for ending the siege on gaza. yes, free some prisoners captured by israel during this war. now, as this did not happen and we were not able to conclude that, this does not really justify the kind of war that is taking place in gaza today. we are continuing to negotiate a

cease-fire and we're trying to continue to negotiate a commitment to gaza that at the end of that cease-fire, gaza will be restored, will be rebuilt, will get some freedom. will get some security. that's the amount of assurance that we need so that we can push forward and get the cease-fire on the ground. >> nabil shaath, the former palestinian foreign minister. thanks very much for joining us. i'd like to continue this conversation in the days to come. we'll see when the secretary of state john kerry comes here to jaum. i assume he'll go to ramallah to meet with president mahmoud abbas as well. just ahead, we're going to get the israeli perspective. the former israeli ambassador to the united states, daniel iaolone is here, we'll be speaking with him. much more after this.

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authority is being undermined. your reaction? >> well, wolf, she was blunt. let me be also blunt. first of all, i know secretary albright personally and i respect her. i think in this issue, she was totally wrong. there's no proportionality in wrong. if there was proportionality in what the nazis would still be in europe. the united states itself did not lose its moral authority when they killed, from the air, over 500 civilians in belgrade or in kosovo. i think madeleine albright was then in the administration of clinton doing that. if you not -- proportionality, in a war situation, if it's tit-for-tat, it's bleed bloodletting all over without stopping. i think this is crucial to reach decisiveness in battle. otherwise, this is the moral, the morality is not being served. >> because it's painful to see those pictures -- >> absolutely -- >> -- more than 600 palestinians

have been killed and so much of them young kids, families, it's awful. >> it is awful. i don't know how many hundreds of young israeli kids have been traumatized and are being served in special care. so, you know, it's on all sides. we do not want it. i heard also nabil shaath. i would say he's shedding crocodile tears. he's saying these tunnels are self-defense. it's like saying an armed robber who comes to your home and threatens to kill your family, you know, he's using the gun as self-defense. no. you have to take care of him. hamas is committing a double crime here. >> should israel accept a cease-fire, even if those tunnels aren't completely destroyed, even if hamas still has rocket launchers capable of firing rockets and missiles into israel? should israel accept a cease-fire in place and withdraw all of its ground forces in gaza? >> israel has accepted three times a cease-fire. >> it's a new situation now. >> the short answer is yes.

i would say, you know, if i were to be in the decisionmaking process in jerusalem, i would say yes, but one condition, that after the cease-fire, we demilitarize gaza. we take away, just like we did in the international community in syria, taking away all the chemical arsenal of assad. we have to take all the rockets and blow up all the tunnelings in gaza. in this situation, i would say cease-fire right away. >> is that realistic to demilitarize, is hamas going to give up its weapons? >> of course not. hamas is isolated. the only ones helping hamas now is basically iran, qatar, hezbollah, and turkey unfortunately. but we have the moderate arab countries, saudi arabia, egypt, jordan. even the palestinian authority. their interest is really to take away hamas' power and to really re-establish palestinian authority over gaza. this can be done only if we demilitarize hamas. and we can do it.

you saw all the concede. you saw all the concede. millions of cubic meters of concrete. when israel was limiting the inflow of cement to gaza, we were pounced by all the organizations. we said, it's not going for the benefit of the population. it's going to build these tunnels. we see now these tunnels. >> one final question, albright said the only real solution for israel and the palestinians is a two-state solution. israel living alongside palestinian. is that realistic? >> well, it is realistic if we have a partner which, first of all, believes in our right to be here. >> mahmoud aback the palestinian authority, believes that. >> as a jewish state, because mahmoud abbas talks about a two-state solution. i did not say him two states for two people. >> he believes in a state of israel and a state of palestine. what's wrong with that? >> well, he has to understand that israel, our dna, you know, we have accepted the palestinians' right for self-determination. reciprocity, they should respect

ours. we are a jewish state. judaism is not just a religion. it's a culture. it's history. it's values. i think the road to peace would be much easier. >> the former israeli ambassador in the united states, thank you very much for joining us. up next, richard quest is standing by. we're going to speak with a senior official from malaysian airlinings. we'll ask the about the scene in ukraine, latest in the investigation, stay with us. starts with back pain... miky ...and a choice. take 4 advil in a day which is 2 aleve... ...for all day relief. "start your engines" dust irritating your eye? (singing) ♪ visine® gives your eyes relief in seconds. visine®. get back to normal. this is the first power plant in the country

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. on this day in history, july 22nd, 2004, the 9/11 commission issued its final report and

concluded, in part, that leaders didn't understand the gravity of the threat. that quote, the danger of bin laden was not a major topic among the policy, media, or the conference, on this day in history. let's get back now into the investigation of the downing of mh-17 over the ukrainian skies. pro-russian rebels have sent the bodies of the crash victims to the government-controlled part of the ukraine. they have also handed over the plane's flight data recorder to the dutch authorities. air accident investigators will go through them including a senior investigator of the ntsb. cnn aviation expert richard quest is joining us from new york. i want to bring in hugh dunleavy. he's joining us from the airport in amsterdam. richard, you have an immediate

question for hugh. >> you've had every criticism thrown at your airline but the main and substantial one, sir, is that whether it was legal to fly that route on the 17th, was it wise for malaysia airlines to take l-90? >> on the time we organized the flight of mh-17, the flight corridor we were using was an approved flight path. and we followed that flight path accordingly and it was accepted by the air traffic control and like many airlines, had been flying that route for many, many weeks and with hundreds of airlines passing that route every day, we believed it was safe to do so. obviously the event of flight mh-17 has changed our mind about the designation of a safe corridor. >> do you know believe, since

other airlines have chosen not to fly, many airlines did fly. i completely accept that, sir. but doesn't that just show, as was seen today with tel aviv, some flying, some not, that the air routing and planning is not fit for purpose and needs to be revised? >> i think that's something that really needs to be questioned between the airlines, the international civil aviation authority and ayata on what is the specification for a safe flight corridor. so the historical standards accepted by the aviation industry now need to be reviewed in the light of the ability of the various groups to use very sophisticated weapons that can reach into the normal flight operating altitude of civilian airliners. i think it's time that we all got together and reviewed how we decide on what is designated a safe flight corridor and what

should be the frequency with which those designations get reviewed. because, as we know, the situation on the ground can get very volatile very quickly and how quickly will we get the airlines and organizations to make sure that their systems are updated accordingly. >> mr. dunleavy, there are reports that we all know, the wreckage has tremendously been altered at the scene. is that the case? >> yes. unfortunately, that is the case. the crime scene, which is what mh-17 is, has been, i think, picked clean by the various groups that were in control of that area and there are horror stories about people stealing sim cards and the possessions of the passengers on board and i think the entire site has been compromised. to what extent that will be --

will defeat the activities of the forensic investigators to determine the exact cause of the loss of that aircraft, i can't speculate on that. but it has been certainly contaminated. >> richard, i know you've got to run but you have one more question. go ahead. >> was it a mistake, sir, to route mh-4 over syria on sunday? you have seen the stories. you know the abundance of caution. what happened that allowed this to happen? >> yes. so here's what the situation is. following mh-17, we at malaysia airlines implemented a review of the processes that allows us to select which flight corridor to use. mh-4 was selected a route over syria which, again, according to the civil aviation organization was designated a safe corridor to use.

and because it's considered a safe corridor, our flight planning systems will look at those opportunities and select a flight path to follow. in view of mh-17, we've taken a second look at that and one of our processes now is to go back and say, regardless of what the civil aviation organization says is a safe corridor, we need to put in another layer of protection to say what else is going on in the region and could there be a potential for another situation like flight mh-17 and in which case we will close down those corridors so they will not be candidates for us to use in the future. the challenge is every airliner will make their decision independently. we're not intelligence organizations. i think this could lead to enormous confusion. which my recommendation is that the airlines get together and really review the process for designating safe flight corridors. >> i think everyone wants to err on the side of caution right

now. mr. dunleavy, the bodies are now in a secure area. what role with malaysian air hines play going forward right now? >> so, the primary function of the malaysian airlines team, particularly here in the netherlands, is to look after the needs of the next of kin. we need to listen to what their situation is, listen to them and help them through the grieving process and provide whatever assistance we can to help them get through this terrible tragedy. obviously from a technological point, our engineers will be made for availability on the follow-up of the mh-17 incident. >> mr. dunleavy, good luck to you and everyone involved in this investigation. thanks very much for joining us, hugh dunleavy of malaysia airlines. thank you. that's it for me. thank you for watching.

i'll be back at 5:00 p.m. edition of the two-hour situation room. christiane amanpour is next. for those in the united states, brooke baldwin in the newsroom starts right now. i'm brooke baldwin. great to be with you on this tuesday. major breaking news to pass along to you right now. the continuous violence in the mid-east has thus far remained contained within the region, but its impact is starting to spread. here's what we know at this hour. the faa has just issued a notice to all u.s. airlines telling carriers that they are prohibited from flying into israel's main airport in tel aviv. you have the german carrier lufthansa and klm canceling flights. debris associated with