welcome to "power lunch." alongside heavy out kelly evans, big day on "power lunch." the dow has been update sessions in a row last week. best week of the year, believe

it or not. today, down just a little bit. only about 1%, though, from its all-time high at 39,438. looking at s&p, it's down very slightly and nasdaq is up a little bit. >> we are watching big tech as open ai which is out by microsoft, unveils a new model in may team up with apple to put chatgpt on the iphone. 2% in this. microsoft and google which has its tomorrow is down fractionally. >> roaring kitty tweeted for the first time, on x, for the first time in three years. that sent game stop, amc, and blackberry shares higher. >> that is fundamental investing. >> that is right. >> if you are wondering whether policy was too tight or too easy, i think that your answer was. >> hosting with us this whole hour, contributor, will come to

you. >> let's talk markets. >> are we overvalued? are we do for something in the form of a correction? >> i think we had a little mini correction and now all of a sudden, we got eight days in a row. i think we really went through earnings season. earnings were stronger than people expected. the earnings were there to support the stock market be where it is. is it still cheap? no. it is still being carried by some of the big stocks. i think the biggest thing going forward is you are going to have data coming wednesday with cpi and where is inflation as the mandate for the fed because the fed is basically saying we are not going to cut rates until we see inflation come down and if inflation does not come down, i don't think you're going to get those to the end of the year. >> the left last lyft in rising stock prices came after number

was hotter than expected, suggesting that the fed would -- it did. >> also had jay powell saying. that is that risk of the market. >> if we do get higher inflation and lower growth, what happens? i think that could be really hard for the market to take at that point. >> that is what is being digested. maybe inflation does upsize. maybe rent does come down. that is being built in right now. if that disappoints, you could see the other way and. the other wildcard is the debt. where are we going with the debt? there's so much debt servicing to do with it. >> i forget what the number was we heard last week. it was the gross number were going to be spending per month on debt service alone.

it takes you up above. >> when it was 2%, a very different ball game. how does that work and in the rest of the world, where do we go with that if the dollar is going to be that strong, you can have consequences especially in the trade market. in a trap because of things holding and that is not cut, that's going to raise interest cuts further, lead to more inflation and there you have to figure out what to do with that. in the face of all of that, the market is ill, more or less going strong. i do not know if you caught ari wald's comments , the capital markets, the market overall. there are so many things that surprised people about this market to the upside that you would not be that surprised at this point if it keeps going. >> if you do but if you get the benefit of maybe just slowing down the second derivative of costs coming down, the market

can definitely still do that. it's that question that if you don't see that cost coming down and you still see a strong labor market and pricing going up, i think rates don't come down and then you got that factor. the bond vigilantes come back and say hey, we got to move. if it goes even higher than your discount rate start to change. >> the maggot 7 has become the five 4, i guess, maybe. tesla. what happens if one of those fab four lose its footing? can they continue to make headway under the circumstances? >> i think you can. you have already shortened it down. what happens there depends on those stocks but i think people have started to really start diversification away from them. but they are stair still carrying a huge part of the market. they are still very strong. apple has rebounded from where it is. i do think that equal weighted index or other opportunities as

we have talked about in the past they are. the market might not go higher but you can definitely have stocks that will go up higher as we've seen this year. >> let's bring in our friend to the markets in all things related. the one and only billionaire investor and ceo of the omega family office. leon joins us on the phone. we were having a little technical difficulty. it is always good to have you with us. we appreciate you being here. >> my pleasure, sorry for the problems. i am the last guy to fix them. >> i have been on the phone to whoever the provider is right now. get over here to my house. i noticed in my note that you say very unequivocally that we are heading for a financial crisis. i do not mean to question that at all but i would love to hear. >> i don't. i am more worried about it than not. what would a crisis?

>> it would collapse your dollar. look, we have two candidates running for president. one is bad and the other is worse. the arguments of each one, the function of your beliefs and your values. both of them are putting every nickel that we have. the reason puzzled by president trump expects to increase the deficit to $2 trillion next year. you have a full employed economy. those budgets are supposed to be in balance. we are racking up debt like were going out of style and one of these days it will change and we don't know the date. it will change when it's least expected. in the 60s, there was guns and crowding out. we have guns and utter. with consequences on the policies that we have.

>> let me pause if i might for just a second. i want to come back to the question we were just discussing about monthly carrying cost of our debt which is truly amazing but i would not be doing my job and you are free to save my political beliefs are mine alone but you said one candidate is bad and the other is words worse. which is which? >> that depends upon your beliefs. >> i am asking you. my value is there's no way i would vote for donald trump. why? you learn when you are five years old that you do not make fun of handicapped people. that is not conduct. it's disgraceful conduct. not worthy of being president of the united states of america. >> whether people agree with you or not, i appreciate the clarity of your answer. i really thank you for that. >> that is my view, my personal

view. the other, you have biden who is of the left. i have never seen two candidates running for president that basically have been more criticized people who don't want to vote. i said this a year ago on one of your programs. 2 1/2 million people. 250,000 the right to vote. washington, jefferson, hamilton, et cetera. as a nation, we have to do better. >> i think there are an awful lot of people who would agree with that last point. is this the best that we can do? let's turn back to that financial issue. what you jump in? >> a couple of questions. when you look at the market,

and i understand your concerns. where would be some of the opportunities that you would be deploying capital and what are the areas that give you caution and say hey, red flag here. >> my historic approach has been. i never a stock up without a reason and down without a reason. my job was to separate the facts from the fiction. so apollo is 12 times earnings and doing a great job. and transfers the 7% yield, very good management. 6 1/2 times earnings, the insurance market is already tight. all these technology stocks existed to have a very long- term horizon, okay? i look at the soccer team in

the uk. mr. radcliffe just bought a quarter of the company at $33 a share. if you read his contract closely, the stock gets $15. people don't have confidence. i don't think you spent -- to lose money. >> i find a lot of things i could be doing and i have about 15% energy. i don't expect energy prices to runaway on the upside but hat could happen. plenty of excess capacity. i think the oil is probably bound by 70 or 90. the discount a little bit low of oil price. my research up in canada. arguably, the smartest guy on.

these stocks are nearly 6%. they are generating cash flow. in the case of paramount, they have no debt. relative to cash flow. the price is pretty good. >> let me ask you by commodities. what is your view on copper, steel? >> positive, positive. but i am plugging in conventional ways. low-priced stock. there can have an asset value of about three times the current price and are doing the right thing. generating cash flow. >> yeah, go ahead. >> there is a lot of talk about the fed being restrictive. i do not think they are being restrictive. we have a stock market at or

near a high. we have tremendous speculation that. i've got to shut off my iphone but. >> we are having a little bit of feedback so why don't we leave it there. we appreciate your time and as a resident of, so many appreciate your philanthropy in the medical field. you have done an amazing job with your generosity. we thank you for that. leon cooperman, always a pleasure to have you with us. >> one final thought of his dimension, thank you for helping bring that to us. he thinks that even if the fed cut, the yield could rise. time will tell. coming up, apple reportedly nearing a deal that chatgpt on the iphone. we will hear everything we learned at open ai's event. "power lunch" will be right

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welcome back two "power lunch." open ai announcing its new model ahead of the google event. nothing specific about a potential deal with apple. is here with more and are eager to talk about why apple stock might be up 2%. under a little bit of pressure. what was the big news from the open ai event? >> a new model called gpt 4 o. it is effectively meaning it can interpret not just we are used to typing to chatgpt, it interprets voice and images. open ai has been able to do this before, other ai's have been able to do this. show a picture, tell me what is in this picture, things like that. this is a stitching on that together and creating the ability for a more natural conversation. we are so used to asking siri

or alexa one question at a time, then we get one answer, this is just like you and i are talking right now, guys, it -- you can interrupt it, have a more fluid and flowing conversation with it. news the >> exactly. that is exactly why one reason we could be seeing apple shares up because as bloomberg reported friday evening, those two companies are close to a deal that would bring this technology to the iphone which is very impressive. when i was on the left on friday, we were talking about the new york times report that said siri is about to get the supercharge. this sounds like something that they would adopt. >> this might be a or something similar to what we are talking about right now and again, that idea of having an ai assistant with more natural language, you can talk to it just like you would talk to your human instead of talking to a robot and sam altman put out a blog post about this following the event and he sees this as a future.

people can build into it, it can learn more data about you and start being proactive and doing things for you on its own. that is really interesting as well. >> would this be more proprietary just for apple? why would android want to do it? how does that work and who would they go to? >> working to find out tomorrow because tomorrow is google's developer conference and were accepting a very similar announcement from google with their gemini model to do the exact same thing on an android phone. this could be coming to google tomorrow. >> the other question i ask is where do the chips fit into this? >> at the end of each open ai event, she thanked. there you go, there is your answer. thank you everybody for watching and thank you, jensen. there you go. >> the google event, something involving gemini which is their version? it would be on an android phone? >> it would be everywhere.

gemini, when they announced it last fall, i believe i was on this program. they screwed that up. they fudged the demo and edit it in a way that would fear appear that it was faster than it was. >> as far as i could tell, in the demo that open ai did, that was in real time. i believe it did. it will i believe it was unscripted and it was working and it worked really well. it messed up a little bit and even made a joke about itself messing up. it was almost creepy. >> the question on the exam is compare and contrast apple and google. >> look. i think they are both going one step ahead and then the other one. at the end of the day, i look at this for the consumer as getting something so good but that phone of yours is a computer. >> also, i look at it and i think about -- the electricity

usage. the fact that you and i can be chatting along with this for no reason and the incredible electricity and computation behind everything. >> that is when i think about my battery life. >> maybe it's not your phone so much as the cloud. >> it is running in the cloud. >> this is the thing when you look at investing. okay, why do you want to be a copper company for data centers? >> you look at the state of georgia and you look at where all the power is coming from. >> bingo. there are many investable as we move across, not just having the phone but all the other products with it. >> thank you very much. >> we will see a little more of you in just a moment. >> further ahead, she is ipo

could hinge on getting a membership to the national retail federation. so far, that is not working out. we got the details when we return.

welcome back two "power lunch." ahead of some key inflation numbers. rick santelli joins us from chicago with more. >> tyler, you pick the perfect word. if we look at a chart, let's look at it going back to around the 24th of last month. on the 25th, made their high yield close for the year with 4.70%. you can see that after that, we really have gone sideways. as a matter of fact, right now as a 10 year, we are on pace for the sixth between the yields of 445 and 449. most closely associated with the fed may or may not do in the short and with respect to interest rates, let's look at a two week of two. they lasted a 5% handle on the first of the month. they have also gone very.

if you look at them on a closing basis, it is the eighth potential closed today between yields of 481 and 487. these are really compact closing yield ranges. finally, we have all been keeping close tabs on its record which may be in jeopardy with how many consecutive sessions in the green. maybe one of the big issues was when the two year closed under 5%. you can clearly see the inverse relationship especially once we started to move lower and consolidate on short rates. kelly, back to you. >> a coiled spring. i will be excited to see which. >> still to come, anatomy of a consumer. that can help tell us which way we are going. all this week, we are testing and asking escorts experts whether we could be giving a eall of health. we will dive into that next.

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u.s. officials have worked out to over blockade of the gaza today. video circulated showing a group of people walking the convoy and throwing supplies. you could see them stepping into the ground. they are protesting because israel pledged to allow uninterrupted humanitarian supplies into gaza. at least four people have died in the dozens were trapped after a billboard fell during a rainstorm. 60 people got hurt. that billboard came down on houses at a gas station near a busy road. the forecasters say when has reached as high as 30 miles an hour. just weeks before the official start of monsoon season. of the united states postal service will delay plans to consolidate his processing network. a group of bipartisan senators sent a letter to the general earlier this month urging him to halt the changes until an

independent regulator could weigh in on the plan. they are worried about mail delays as the postal service makes the switch. do not get me started on the delays. >> we got a christmas card back six months after the fact. >> that took a long time. it was like in a bottle, throwing it to the waves. meantime, all this week, we are looking at the health of the consumer, all the different parts and let's start with their bank accounts. joining us with a look at consumer balance sheets. >> we are what we are looking at is the april from echo facts showing credit card delinquencies. they show them taking up to the highest level since may of 2020 but remaining below the pre- pandemic averages. a combination of low delinquencies and consumer real estate and student loans offset

higher auto and bank card delinquencies. all areas are up compared to a year ago. that is the left side of your screen. auto and bank loans are the ones above the 2019 averages. lower income households are under financial stress but the worst of that hands. as real wages are rising and have titan. the data show that the delinquency rates are highest in 2022 and the 2023 classes better because of the tire standards. wells fargo tracks delinquencies reported by banks and they are running at about a 20% above 2019. you can see on the right side of your screen. in class and discovery. they do not look as good. the rate of increase has slowed, however. donald who covers the consumer companies tells me the second, delinquency pressures are easing. it is jobs and we are not

seeing a lot of corporate layoffs. you can see he pointed to the declining year-over-year rate of delinquencies at capital one and city. it is true for all the credit card holders. that evidence of the cycle is picking at his belief because they are training and worst outcomes when it comes to delinquencies. all bets are off if rises sharply and unacceptably. fed rate decision's are going to matter especially to low income debtors. the question is whether the fed starts cutting rates before there is a more serious problem. >> thank you very much. let's dig a little deeper into the consumer every day. we are going to examine the health of the consumer this week. today we look at the heart of consumer spending. here to discuss is the senior economist at bank of america institute. welcome. nice to have you with us. i noticed you see in your attic

card spending a rise in household spending but it's modest. there is not really fall off in consumer activity but it's not growing terribly great quickly. >> that is exactly right. credit card growth from the start of 2023 when we were still in that pandemic reopening phase which. in our latest four april, year and year spendings around 1%, up 1% on a year ago. when you look through the data over the first two months of the year. an acceleration or deceleration going on, i would say. >> did i read it correctly or did i misread it that lower income households pending growth is higher than higher

income suspending growth? >> that is what we are seeing. it's pretty interesting. there's been a little bit of report saying it's almost become to think that the low income consumers are turning over. we don't really see that in our data. we continue to see the low income consumers spending growth ahead of high income spending. labor market performance is labored. they are seeing about a 4% year- over-year increase and it's about 1%, currently. really, it is the labor market that is largely the bedrock of this story and the lower income consumer remains in pretty good shape for nowadays. >> how do tax refunds figure

into this spending? we are looking at april. a month when a lot of people got refunds. >> that is a good question. the moment someone receives a tax refund, the average was up about 3 1/2%. it was to the lower end of distribution. we look at spending before and after and we see about a 35% increase in spending in the three weeks after the refund to the three weeks before. interestingly, it skewed this time towards consumer clothing. not skewed toward services but more towards the retail and of the shopping experience. also, and i think this is a noted caution. when we look at debt repayments, we see the lower income consumer deciding to pay down debt, to some extent.

particularly credit card debt and student loans. they did spend but there was a known to caution in terms of what they did on debt. >> when you break down the spending, you notice that there was retail but are they still doing experiences? the travel data is still pretty strong. is that being lifted by them? >> i think it is a much everyone, really. we saw about 20%. there is still a travel story going on too. in a way, everyone has been looking for normalization but it is still pretty solid for now. >> pretty small solid for now is how we will leave it. thank you so much, we appreciate it. coming up, members only. fast fashion firm shein

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welcome back, everybody. the chinese founded fashion chain shein has been on the fast track for u.s. ipo. trying its best to win over. so far, has failed to win acceptance from the national retail federation. gabrielle is tracking the story. what is the hold up? >> shein has tried to become a member of the national retail federation multiple times but keeps getting rejected. we do not actually know why but my sources have told me is that there is somebody within the organization that is against it and let's break this down a little bit. the ceo is matt shea. we do not actually know who

decides or becomes a member but matt shea keeps close counsel with his board of directors. there is a lot of board of directors furthers an executive committee and leadership committee. a lot of. you got walmart, target, macy's, levis, albertsons, luxury players. whether or not those executives are against this and are holding it up, we don't know but we know that they keep close counsel with him. >> it's called the national retail federation. are we defining this within the borders of who is operating? you mention other foreign brands that have become a part of this. would sheehan be unusual with it being excluded or being included? >> it's hard to say because like you said, we got on the board already, i.d.'d is is a member. if you are doing a lot of retailing in the u.s., you can be part of. that is what board members told me as long as you are primarily. the market is in the united

states. are you only excluding this retailer because they were founded in china? they make their money by membership dues and with his board of directors told me is they're trying to grow membership and they want to expand internationally. where do you draw the line? >> i guess the bottom line question is who cares? why would she care? >> there is a very important reason why this matters. shane want to go public in the u.s. it has to win over lawmakers, regulators. of course, the broader retailing industry. it has been on this and trying to convince everyone that it can be trusted on american exchanges. if it earns -- >> trusted with u.s. customer data mostly or? >> with all of it. if it can be trusted as an american company. if they earn a stamp of approval from the national retail federation, it would be the largest in the country, globally, as well. and they have walmart,

microsoft, google, the largest tech companies and retailers on the planet. sheehan is sitting at that table, that could legitimize in the eyes of regulators. >> it become a part of a fraternity, so to speak, if it gives one of the powers. >> one of my concerns is the sourcing of some of the garments? >> that is absolutely a concern in one of the main things that lawmakers are talking about. they want to make sure that they are sourcing it from areas where forced labor is not an issue. that is a little bit of where this comes into play. this is what we have talked about in the show. forced labor is a caution is a problem across the industry. have faced these same issues. look at nike. one of nike's executives was on the board are the foundation a couple of years ago. when shein went under investigation by house lawmakers, got a same letter . >> interesting. teemu, have they tried to be,

part? >> they are a black box. they do not like to talk to us. they have not done anywhere near what shein is done. shein is really tried to with american regulators with american retailers, with the public, the media. >> i wonder if it will just be a matter of time. still a fascinating holdup. we appreciate it. coming up, hoop dreams. kathy will join us to discuss the upcoming season and the trails she is blazing on and off the basketball court. we are celebrating asian american native hawaiian, and pacific islander month. the determination i developed really led to the president needed. we are no longer considered a minority, that

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welcome back to "power

lunch." the wnba season tips off tomorrow night with caitlin clark set to make her professional debut. that happened fast. the league is coming up its most-watched regular-season of more than 20 years and just announced its teams will be giving charter flights for the and toner tire 2024 season. kathy is the change maker. she is here with who has been guest hosting for the hour. >> i do note the tie. >> kathy, from your own career -- i just wanted to go back. for everyone who is been amazed at the success and excitement around it, you have. 2020 was an act essential year for you guys. take us to that time. >> think about it. our season does not start until may and the pandemic hits in march, essentially. they shut down the sports world and we don't have season, we would be out of the landscaper 20 months. no media money, corporate conservation sponsorship money.

we were already in surviving mode. >> this was months after. >> very quickly. i put all of my scenario planning hats on and we ended u seem to have done as the nba as done is to bank on individual players. i mean, the nba has noted stars. you know who lebron is you know who jamal murray is and now, you all have a similar sort of cadre of players, whether it's gaby reese or clark, who's coming into the league, or some of the established ones like brianna stewart. >> a'ja wilson >> brian -- >> it is one thing coming in from business, very quickly in sports, to get people to watch, you need rivalries, you need household games, and you need games of consequence that's why march madness is so

popular. every game is survive and advance. that's why playoffs are so popular. every game is a game of consequence. when you build these household names, for many years, people followed the wnba, not a player or a team, and now we have this opportunity to build rivalries so they're following teams and players, not just the league, because it's the right thing to do we're a women's sports league. >> how are you looking now at expansion? now, with the popularity growing, where are the next regions? how does that, in your strategic plan -- this has happened so fast so quickly? >> right, so, in a country of 330 million people, we're the longest-tenured women's professional sports league in the country by double any other, tipping off our 20th season tomorrow you have to be in more than 12 cities our corporate partners are in more than 12 cities. our media partners want coverage in more than 12 cities we've announced we're expanding up to 16 we've announced a bay area team in san francisco, which is hugely accretive to the league >> east coast, maybe, to help with those game start times? i know a lot of them are a

little late in the day for those who live on the east coast >> we're looking at east coast, middle of the country. we have a big gap in the mountain time zone where we have no teams we're looking at everything. the nice thing is, coming off our most-watched draft in history with over 3 million at peak, we got a lot of calls just in the last few weeks. >> the draft was good. i watched the draft. it was good. it was fun and there were some good fashions there it was really nice i saw you last night on an interview on a sister network of nbc, and you had a very interesting answer to the question of the comparative salaries between women's wnba and the men's nba, and your salary is capped at, what, $75,000? >> that's where it begins, a rookie salary, the base pay. the max pay is up to 2 -- >> and of course, comparative salaries in golf or tennis or whatever, soccer, have been controversial. repeat that answer of why you seem to have a much more nuanced view of that than some others do >> well, i like to look at total

comp, like we do in proxy season, right, with, you know, you have the base pay of a ceo and then you have their bonus and their stock compensation and their other and other, and our world is endorsements. our players are getting more and more endorsements. but we need to work on the pay thing, but we've only been around 28 years. 50-year head start in the men's basketball league. you know, 75 years in the nfl and the nhl and mlb. they're all well over a hundred years old. making progress, but it's being funded by the ecosystem called media rates. >> it's bigger tv contracts. >> absolutely. catching up on quickly here. and it will be hopefully historic, and we just have this opportunity now with the viewership that we got off the ncaa women's tournament to really have a great season this year leading into our media negotiations >> we mentioned the charter flights. were they flying commercial before that? >> yes, the players have always flown commercial, and most leagues, in their start-up phase, that's what happens when you get the media rights and corporate partners to step

up and provide value, then you can provide for things like that and we weren't -- i wanted to do this for years, but we weren't going to do it until we felt we had built an economic model to fund it for the long-term, meaning decades, not just three to five years, and now we have a lot of confidence that we're going to have those revenue sources both at the team and the league level, and our owners are all supportive of it, so we're going to do it out of the league, two years before our next collective bargaining negotiation, and hopefully this will be a big success that we sustain over a long term >> is there any demand internationally? are you seeing that? >> huge low-hanging fruit, sarat. obviously, we had a soldout game in toronto last year, soldout game this year in edmonton we'd love to bring our game to europe we have a ton of fans in europe. the international governing body of basketball is very popular outside the united states. asia, africa, a lot of our players hail from africa it's just such an enormous opportunity. >> don't some of your players

play overseas in the off season? >> they do less and less now, but still a portion of them. some want to go play some are from -- we have about 17% of our players from outside the u.s., who their home country is in europe or asia but yeah, some players do go they make an additional salary over there our season isn't that long we play 40 games, not 80 or 82 or 162 like baseball, so again, we're working on expanding our season we expanded our playoffs, which are highly valued by our media partners, and we open to expand them even more >> thanks for being with us. good luck. have a great season. cathy engelbert of the wnba. you can always hear us on our podcast. be sure to listen to and follow "power lunch." ca cathy is going to do that right now, listen to the podcast we'll be right back.

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let our expertise round out yours. let's get some final thoughts you want to talk about lehigh?

>> it's a great institution. and everybody should apply there. >> i like the tie. my next door neighbor's daughter down the street is going there next year. >> she is so impressive. >> tony, good luck >> she's done a fabulous job >> can i ask you matter of factually about the markets before we go >> is that what we're here for >> we can go in many different directions >> i think what mr. cooperman said is, it's a market of stocks if you're invested, look for the opportunities, whether it's energy, commodities, industrials. doesn't mean you have to avoid tech people say, you got to stay away you can still own them it's diversification and it's the stize of what you have one of the traps we see is investors fall in love with a stock and it becomes too big a position you can invest we talked about how do you play all this stuff you can be in infrastructure stocks equinix or other things that are going to do well, copper, freeport, and if that's one part

of the market, but then you can play the other market of health care and other things too. so, i think you can be diversified in an area where the markets are overall overvalued but i think the opportunities are still there. >> appreciate it thank you for watching "power lunch. "closing bell" starts right now. ♪ kelly, thanks so much. i'm scott wapner live from post nine at the new york stock exchange this make or break hour begins with the markets on edge as critical inflation data looms large. the recent rally back from the april lows potentially hanging in the balance we will ask our experts over this final stretch what is really at stake this week with the release of ppi and cpi reports. our guests today including sara naison-tarajano in goldman-sachs. in the meantime, take a look at the scorecard. we're still less than 1% away from those new all-time highs. may not get there today. we're led by apple