it is 4: on wall seeeet. do y y k knowhere your moneney ? lclcomback to the closing bell.. i'm maria bartiromo. hehe's what we're follolowiat ee close tonigight ococks retreating once againin following monday's gains ddby concerns about a potential second s stiluluplan and ntntind weakness in ththe erer seseoror. more worriesthth the economy reremas deep in rereceioio ththat because oil prices fell for the fifth day inin aowow closing under $$63 a barrere tonight. ude wnwn 1212 sinceunune 29th. bibi win for c hank greenberg tell you about.. aa jurury rulingg at an investmt firmontrolled by him d doe not have to o imimbue the insurance giant for taking stockssin the

compmpy'y's retirementfund. the new yorkk based insusuraee giant had accusededrereenrg of losing th aig retirement prprogm composose. gene b bgg tellscncnbc is pleas with the results andndcocongss and tataayayershould pursue watchingnghehere theirr money i gogog.g. here's a lkk how we nished the daday on wall strere w witt markrketnding athehe lowesesofo the afternrnoo a decline of1626 points. nelyly 2% low 8200 at 8162.. s&p p 500 d dnn 17 l lgely dueu weakness in ththe ll stks. th banks m mosyy highertoday. 88880 and cngngen theubpoena ananthe nasdaq composite 41 poinintsowow at 4646. lowest croes for the w industrials s sin t thend o o ril. all the e aconon fm bertha coombs. > aototf folksks watchchgghee teninillevels. we d d s s t the&p bounceceff

that 878. if we clcleeelow atat that't's very bearish sign. the real issue is this ccece out where we're headed. we n now have a c chossf people ststarngngo talk abouthahat secondnd stimulus plan. that's what ththmamarks were lklkg about today.. gotidid on sunday, laura tyson who is onhepresident't's economicic cncncilarlier today and then arounund mday, wewe d sty y hoyoy,, majorityy leader the house ying he would bebe openenoror t discussioioi'i've secondnd bill. the whoho issue of f thconomic rerecory, those tradedes atatave fueled t thi market higherer rly coming off day. wewe s that sellofffn n e energy as we w oill me below $63, energy selling off for the most part except f a fewew up on materials s toh of the day al.. alcoa bucking thehe tndnd managg eke out a a gagain gogg toick off earnings season this timime t tomrow aft

the close. ceceo daday an interview in moscow ying he's starting e some signs of an enomic revery in ina, alsoo startinin to see a bit of a abottoming in rmrms the d demdesesuction he in the u.s. a b standout on the s&p t tay wewerehe health care stks. etna le tenet leadingng t way. a bit o of backing off on the government health care plpl. erere might it beorore wiggle room therere this aftererno, , nator kent conrad saying mananyn the senate looking atat the health care pl are srting to backck off the ea ofaxing health benefits. it l loo as thoughh this is coming closer to the bacack burr and withth mee talk of a stimululussoso analysts in heheal care say it looks like e things could be a a lilele b more benenn n fothe health care stocks. ke a standut on anan urara

from kbw, one of f thbebe vaedd peperfmers on theirananki index. diovoverfinancial issuingg 500,000 share offeringg with pontntiay more e extdede ofofriringafter thatto try to papay ckck s som of t ttt t.a.r moy.y. ria, back to you. >> b berththat thank you so muc. bebert cocoom.. wewe'l be watatining tomorrow t alcoa earnrnin report. >> and the ten-year auctctioisi gogointo be a verery big auauio. >> successful l auioio toy.y. we'll seseifif that f flows ththroh totomoow. thanksks. bertha cobs. e business headlines of the y. the otheher storiese'e're fofol new yorkrk bkers association reportrtgg consumer loansns delinquencies s rehehe new ghs because of the ruruling econonomanandising unemploymen. credit card delinququeneses risg to a r rorord 2.3% ding the period and lateayaymes on home equityty brorowi and lines o of critit hting new highsofof

3.5252%. 1. respecectilyly. oi pcesncnc a aga wnwn. crude o oil finishing the day below $63. w at $62.93 a babarr.. th is nottopping thenenerg administrarati f fm raising its oioi price forecast t no prpredtiti oil will average $6$69.a a bael sececddalf of ththe yeye.. thatat's a a $3 i incase from p expectations. prospepectfofo anconomic recovery. crcre is seen averaging $72.42 a babael nextxt year, a $55 i ire frfromheherevious priction. a federalal jy y ling form eoeoig hank greenbergdodoes not need to reimbururse em for mony hehe tk from the retirement fund. w wasccused of plund terd teering a retirement t prrara in 20.. i i okokeitit mr. greenberg a fw memes ago and he saiaid never

doubted ththate was correct on the issssue a a add he is s sll cused on rebuildingg the company. starr thahat is. he says that taxpayers and congress should review how taxpxpay m mey is pursusu because the vevement is pursuing somethingng ttt should t have beenursued in the first acace. lelet' get back into o th marar acon. john fisherr at fifthhihisssset managementand markwith canter fitzgerald. nice to wcocome you backk to th program. wewe areciate yourr time. >>ooooafternoon. w we' got theselloff in oil seemems b be one of f ee bigge ororie do you wanan to getn the bandwagon of selling oil o is it timimeto movevento oil on the buy sideight here? >> i think oil i t the correct thing along wiwi t the stock mamark.. as far as thee selloffn n e dodoll, that's t tining a pause and obviously a fallining currey and inflation arars is sometetng that stoked t the re recent rallll y you know,, from the 60

level into the0s0s in o an the spike in commodidity pricesn jujune so you nonow, to o ee extenttht at sentimentnt c com off, then that trade iss gng to be reversed. you u i think in the n nea ter l l is probably flat t dodown >> arark, do you agreeiththat? >> ye, ihink thehohorterm had a d douee top at 75 w wit an intervrveng g lo at6.6. thatat projectss down to 59, think k a l lot of trerer saw break of 66 asas at leaeast a short-termrm natativ you got t remember, therere e lolot trararr types t tt arerei the commodities s w whe w wn eaeak verylear techninica pattern, they're g gngng to jum on the shohortsay,ididet down to 60 and startoo cover. >> how do you invest inthis environment, rk? atat a you doing in rms of allocating ney? wewe'r obviously past the point of no r retnn we were in back i 2007. bubut e yourerey to ve money into newrere right now? >> i think we're still in the ading range on a broadader persrsctctiv

we're in a correctionn p pha withth at. i t thi the s&p w wl find support ararou 82825 or mayay slightly below thahat lel and then iwiwi be a rerealuyuyin opportunitit you'll s seinenes realllly rotating to o densnse areas right now and that itit wll tatateack toward techchnogygy wehohoulbe loooongng for me of ththos ses. we saw the news s omomininte th they're looking at bter ses for pc ththinhahas a g goolead indicator that dememanisis building for the fououh h quart, at least from m th retailers. thth's what weant to see. think it willbebe great trade lalate in thesummer. > dyoyo agreeith that,, john? how w aryoyouputting money t to wo hher >> i would agree with the general asassemementhat the maet is in a trading range and we're bouncing off closose to t upper end off thetrading rangeg in a crereion sting up f f what i w wou t tnk is going t t be a decentt fourth quarterer ry and into 2010 optimismnd thehe i think the mararke struggles i 2010. >>ll right, gentleleme

we'l'll e e abt that. a lot o of new worries n about e e onomy and ww to invest given tt these gen shohoot turned out to bebeot so sustainanablafafr l.l. president obobampending a second day in russia todayay today he m with f forrr prpresenent vladimir puputi jojohnrwood nonoonon thatangle. mararia evenwhwhen he's ovsese these days,s, the econonm remamainjojob one. so in russia todod,, president obama, as you mentioned,etet wi dmitry medvedev f forhehe second day, , sosoith prime miminier vladimir putin an address this hadadalalk arted by biden ovoverhehe weekend whethe the administraratimisread the econonom s snals when h they took power. what the president toldld cckck todd was thathis economic storm was muchch bigigrr than yone specceded >> we haven't a alwss got be th nunumbs right but think th genenel l overview is right. we went tough an economic tsamamhahat s f far worse than

anytytngng we've ge e rough sincnce e e grt depression. dven early on, i think, wewe did not see e th full magnitude what was going tohappen. > sdodo weeed a s sond rounud of econonocc stulul? rmer clinton advdvis l lau tytysosaid in an i intvivi we shld be anning on contntinncncy sis for aecond ununof imulus. ththststimus isererrming closee expectatioions t not in tingng i've beenn talkiki t to senior officials in the admdmintrtratn at the w whi house and the treasury. anand ey say a s secddststimus isot veryikiky at all at th point. it issololitally difficult to hieve and n not sure yet whether they have cclclud is ononically necessary. i mean,ouou knowow, the stimulul o on e table right now h hav't even sn n 100% it go to work, n not even 50% of >> exactlyright. and foror that reason, my in coreressnd the administration n are going to sasa whyhyshould w go spending anototrr300 to $400

billion if w don'tt ow whetherr the $800 biion we've already spent is going to work once it's fully implemented not onlyly th, the money going t t taxpayers they're saving it. jo, thanks so mmh. john hararwo a at e white house. >>come up, my e-e-onneith wiwiurur ross. find t what he's thinking about that p-pititplan. he is looking atat those ticic assets as attractive. why doese think thohosessets are so ttttraive? are the babank goioing t sell as sets? laterr on, d doe the e ecomy ne a second stimulus? you just hrdrd what the ministration is saying b b some o oerers e suggesting otrwise. will morore stimulus spedding e up hurtrtin the enonomy wewe'rgoing to chchecououboth waysys. back in a moment.. d#: 1-800-3455 'm rethinking everythihing..

tdd#: 1-800-345-5-25 cluding who i trust toto lk after my money." td: 1-800-345-2550 tdd#: 1-800-345-252550 "tt be setetining. tdtdd#1-1-0-345-2550 that's's gatat, but " tdd#: 1-800-0-5-5-25 d#d#: 800-345-2550 "i guessss i j jt done with doining ththin you know?" tdd#: 1-800-345-5-25 tdd#d#: 8080345-2550 "oh, i'm'm n t thiing about movingngy y moy. tdd#: : 80800-5-2550 i am moving it."."

welcome e back. rere a look at theotothe stories we'reololwing on ththe clclining ll ticker. boeing announcici it has acirired plant south carolina that t mass key partsof 80s dreamliner jet.

nearar $ $60 million. the deal gives them morere contr over i itsupupy chainin, a majo reason r the delays.. boeingshshar down 4%. stock has certainly b bee impacteded bththos dreamliner delays.. conoco philllls s sa exactly quarterefefing lels will be hurt byluluing demand as a rut of the cession.n. e e nation's trdlargest oil company also reporting oil andn naturaragagas oduction is expectctedo o dr comparedo the first ququarrr because o of seasonal trdsds conocohihiips shares dnn 2.25% alonggith the entire oil sector. goldman upgraded sacks frorom a bubuy to a neutral. the analyst lling clienents that cost c conols are betterer than expected, t liididion of mervin's a a less severe me-store sales declines a and other tailers amongththe reasasonfofothe upgrade. no impactt the stocock. it maybe too elylyn n the bottom f f oil but thahat' not

ststpipingome speculators fmm picking g b bad b bteten energ stocks. matt nestoto othth story. c cal them brave speculators. u u st showewed conoco.o. it's not working for t the full sector but c clelyly when yore seeing ,, 30 plus percent gibacks inside of fr weeks,, some o of theseststoc aregogog toto bome very, very tempting. and if y y bieve i in e cyclical rrecery, they b bomome more tempting. i'm going roroug research today and looking at these differeren ththin and energy tocks, i'm eieinguy rings coco. the fafact remains tssfirst art says itl.l. ee energy index slippinggelow dd a late riril level down basicalllly unchanged duriring ririodf time.. bubut e high water mark coming in since june. we areown 15% sinince june 11th for the energy patch. that's almost triplele t giveback w we' seenn in the s s 500 from the se period off titi. so wre a t plus mth low

for energy s scks, and that's whwhen ieeee tse four o othe oor buys coming out here todaday this mornrng,g, i s sta to scrah my headndnd think all right, there's some bulls outthere, including g ee bulls a the newly named ba rrill. ee price t tgeget is 57. alalsouy onmaman enerergy hess rsesed overweight at rkleyss giving back 30% a andcee coput on the shtt tm buylist at deutsche banc.c. backcko o yo >> really stickinging tirir neness t t tha asilil trades do. wiwilh ross issbelieved too be participant in the gornment's buy y ba program. fi out if he inks b ban will bebe reluctant toto sell ththe assesets why are e th so a attctive to wilblburosos today there's a wayy to,

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> welcome baback there'e'aa live picture of theh staplelececent in los angeles. thousands s of fans me toay thr last rereecectso michael jackson at the m memial in l. today. atat memorial isis now projecte cost the c cy morehan $3.8 million. atat'searly four t tes t the original expecectaonon memewhwhil a million dollars goes fartrtrr these ysys. just sevevalal milesway f frothe center, jane wells taking a look

now what t tha kind o of budgetn buy y yoinin berly hills real tate market. >> this w wtt on the market aut the midddd o of may. . >> welcome t to e l lowenen of berly hills 90210. what do o yoet for a million dollars in beverly hhls. >> yououenenerly don't get a singlele fililyrerededenc >> the only y wa iss the meme is bank owned lilikehihione. but a hff century ago and looking likike it. >> evytytng lolook original here,, enn pink range top. i haven'teen ttha >> gosh. >> it okoksike some kind o of inrcom sysyst. >> the homee w bought in 2003 fofo$1.1 million, in '0'07, th owownetoto out teeee more loans. >>500,, 500 a a last o for $300,000. >> total ling anotherer$1$1 million. bubut the usus wentntnto foreclosure e anthth bank ww has itn the markeket f for just ovea mimilln.n. >> this is a a a %isiscot

fromom t years ag >> the home meaeareres 0000 square feetet,lus there's there's a poolbubut it's on a noisisststre.. and whwhil itayay not bebe much look at t neighbors a are famous. p ph and beck down the rereet seal and h hdidi olumn. >> a is and moree if youou c afford the oror t to pricey z dede en if the house, like so many o oth t this in t tssown requires a facelift t janane wells, beverly h hil.. >> don't mi cn repoport tonight at 8:00 p.m.m. our lllln dollar he seriess continues with briananhahactn in dedetrt.t. just likee the a aoo instst, the housusgg marketasaseen devastated tonight at .m.m. eaeastn.n. find out whahat a a mimiioion c in detroit. s spe or not to spend maybebe ththquestion in washingtonon out p pottiti secondtimulus economic plan. up nenextwewe'r talking a aut ththat poteteiaial foror anothe stimulus orr if i it' too

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welcome ckck. media executivives instment babankss venture capitalaltsts, popoticians gathering i sun lllley idahoho for the annualal alan and companynyconfereree.e. toto hp p nks burdeded d by distressed assets through vevestnt programs or the p-tip. our nenextuest is wilburross, chairman and ceo of w.l. ross

and company. wewelce back. >hahank you. good to be bk. >> soo you're in a gorgegeou backdrdr t the for theunun lllleyconference. first let meask you about that. what are you e eecting to get out of t thi cconrence? >> well, the rllpurpose of the conferenceces informal excxchae among g ee various cs w w are here and i i lots of t tmm are people i d't't run i ioo too muh inhe normal cououee of enents so i it ulul be u usel to get their input as tohahathey s happppeng g theheirndndusy. >> certaininly getting ptty good input from a a variety of secto to fi out where are w we in t i econonom slowowdo.. let me ask youou about isis p-p plan. yo company has been talked about terms o of being one o the investors there. i ththout t e investments were toe ttox >> i can theyy ee t tic butveven toxicity makes s sen i if u can get t a at the ghght price and with thehe rhthtegree of lerarage

and we b belveve that isis prom hahas a veryood balalanc of t to twtwo st as the lflf program om t ter short tm aet backeded cmemercl paper was a ccccs. beeve that.. i once it gets goioinglsls will bebe a success. >>hohowill y you come up wi t t pricing onon i a lolo of talk that theebabas don'n't ntnt to s sel at rorock bottompriceses do you t thi t ty'll sell you thesssssven though they thk at some point they'l'lbebe able toto g high p pceces for ththeassets? a lot of this paperer i is ve going g g go ck to par no mamatt how long theyolold it.. what will happen wh the p-p-. i because othe v ver fororab leveraragewewel be able t to pa between 5 d 10% an points clclerer t par thane would have be able toowithout p-pip.. as aesult of that, w whaver

gap theree had bn betweenanank rrying valuesndnd t market should closose. >> do o yo feel like s som playr have stepped a awarom the ppip? i mean aerer what we saw hpen with the chrysler situauaononan a worry th t theules would bee chgegein the middle of f ee me?? is there stillll as mucuch ciciment about this pl? >> well, there is onn ourpart. i c c't speak for otrsrs but itit looks as though it wil be a mhsmsmalr program. originally, ththe e watalk that itigig be as much a a a trlion dollars. it now looks as though it's much more likely to be 100 or125 billion. more or less one-eighth to one-tentnth t t original size. now,avavyou started raising funds to participate in thee planan? how w aryoyogoing to participipe?e? do you have a number in place s far asas wt t u'll end? te me how big o investment u'u'reooking to make.

>> well, i've committtted f my funds up to $500 millioio f the seseritization side and up to $500 llion f for the wholele l siside in addition, invesco r raidd $2 million rl l tatenvnvesent trust about t ten dayays ago. and it, to wld be rticipating in the pppi >> so you'rerealking about more than a billion dollar stake i i the ground rere wilbur. which banks do youou tnk are going to be psese to ll? >> oo i w woun'n' know which oneses. but member, there are sosome banks s th got t t.a.p.p money and they're notot even able to y the preferreddividend.. so i would t tnknk they m mig b particularlylyn n a hurry t t cn up their balancesheets.s. and then you haveehe seizedd babank that ee fdic hasakak ovov.. they've t tak ovever already 77

babas.s. my guessss is ty'y'll be anothe 00r so before t thiets nished. and alall those wll have somee assets thaha could be put ioo is ki ofevevered format. and do you thihink t thaththe trsury will sort push the elelbo of some of thosee bananks ey can't even p the prererddividends. e e vernment may say look, you've got to sell these assets anand rtrtf push t the too so.o >> i don't knowwhat government will do,utut that's what t i uld do if i werereovoverent. >> one treasasyy offifici s sd that the ability of nks t to raraiscacapil recentltl indicats at the banks are inetter shape.e. what do youthinknk? >> we, theananks that raised adaddionon capital are i in tttt shape. rememberer, you'veotot some8,00 banks inin ts cotrtr only a veve small fraction of which have raised d catatal. >> whahat do you thinkas behind that? mean,t t wa prettyucuch surprising thahat u u sa such success inerms of the capital raises.

i meanan,did that sururpre e yo thth y you had suchch a f fanst receptioion omom investors? > wl, it did and it didn'n' itit'seaeay a question ofow you balance theheoxoxicssets th are indebted and t the bance sheet w wh the very widespspre t tt they're gettiti nonow on theew loansns ttt eyey'rming. because remember, depositits basicacall are zeroo cost a at point.t. and s if y youanan me loans o o 5 or or 7%, you're makakin a huge return on assets. soso i tnknk what happenedwas, the market foror ahihile had focusedd m mnly on the toxicity and then ateaeast r r a whilil ststted insteadoo fus mainly on t theprprds. >> sowilbur, h how do you go i dd value t the so-calledd hd to valuesecurititi?? can you elala to us whahat ee model is?? hohow y youome up wititththe price? >> eaeah, the modedel i pretty

straightforward in concepept. 's's hd in apapication. bubut 's straightforward in coconct.t. the concept isis youryry to figure out what percentage of the e cuenen payers w wll get t be00 days liliuent, then 6,6, ththen90, then 120rks a andthen either defaultor getmomofied anand then what is the severityo loss when therere's either the reclosure and sale or r th modification. so that's the process.s. thpapart t thas hard is you're dealing withororasting a numberff variaiabl into the fututure. the so-calledollrarate at which people becomeelinquent and ththenthe timingng of whenhat t getsts crystallized and the severity of loss. so you'v'veotevever very big variabableththatou need to take to account. we feel we'e'n a particulullyly good position to make those

dgments cacausamong other thingsgs we have ameriricahohom mortgagage t rgest dependent servicer of nnprprim paper. ey're servicing o orr a halalf mimilln loloan aggregatiting ov $100 billion. so will have pretty good inghts into what's going on with eachofof these tic productsts i each of ththe mark. >> wiwiur, how ds the environment feel t to uu right now? yoyou' been such a s srt vevest when it comes t distressedssets. whererarare in this psycych? hohow y youee it? >>ell, i i tnk w wrere i in ee midst of wh will turn out by future economic htotoris to have been an epicmoment,amely e most massive transfefer liililies from the private ctct to the plic sesect that e w wldld has ever seen. and i t thi that's goingg to bea ininl and ratately slowow

process,s, b we'll be much better off onon t o oer side it. >>o o ere else d do u wawao be allococining ney then at this junctu juncture? arare u still looking at thehe auto sector, are youou sllll looking atat distress situation in mtgages? ere do you t thi is the safest place for yourr money? >> well,we're f focing very importrtanyy on the w wlele financial sececr,r, partly b bae that's been so bombmbed out foro ng.. bubut rerentntlyid acquire in europe another s sma -- another au parts bususinss for ourur internatioionaauauto cocompents. and we'r're looking at some ot tetentl situations there. wewe a als made rececenyy an investment inin onee of the rarailadadar buildlds,s, comomp called g genenbrr out in popolalandoregon, beusus we beeve that longer term, railroad is a very, very gd form ofransportation relative

to trucucks itit oyy takes one-fourth asash energy to move a toton mile o o frfreit t rail as it does by truck. so wehink longer term bobo from an energy indepenendeee popoinof view andfrom a een poinint ofvi, railroaoadswill ay a more i imptant rolend if we're rightn that,,hey're gogointo need lot more raroroad caca.. right t now. >> go ahead, wilbur. . >> right now, there are a lolotf railroad cars on thee sideline, something g li a a third ofhehe ee s stingdlebebecae of the economy. bubuwhwhenhat comes back, w we think theyeyll be huge ededor rara cars. > that's a really ieresting insight t an ononde if that urgency too haveneney inindendnden isstill out there front a a center eveven while ol has comeowown om the highs. here we are at $62.53 a barrel ononrude. lot of pple sayt't' going even wewer. dodo y still havee atat movemen

toto gnergy independent, oil indepependt t fo this countrtr given thee decline t ttt we've seseen >> well, you c canall it a dedecle e t it's only a decline from the 145 where eaeake out about a a year ago. relalati t t wheret had been for most prior years. it's a huge crease. rememberer, r r e longestst whil oiwawa under $20 a a barrel. so or soo is a prettyy big prpric and is certaininly a price which the arab countries, russiaia, enezuela, ll the big producers can do very, v ver well. and it's also wll in excess of the cost of finding oioil. >> all ght. wiwilb, great cocoersation. weoo appreciate yourrime t tayay d d are peciallygrateful given that you'vee epeppe in front of theamera forss while you're there at t the alan nfnferce. we'lll see you soon. >>ee you oooon, maria. thanks foror hing meon. >> w we' watchinggew

developments for t the ppipplan. wilbur ross. is the white house in n farrf a second stimulus? up next we're t talng about more spending. is it needed too f f the econo? is a second stimulus a actllll hurtful for t theonger term? babackn a moment. ??@

welcomom back. over thehe weekend, vice presist joe benen made a stunning admission about thee admimiststraon's estimation of e nation's economic weweakssss.r >> thehe trh is, there ss a misreading off j jus how b b an economomwewe inherited. now,w, i notlaying-- it's n r responsibility. so the secondd ququesonon bebem dididhe economimipapacke weutut in placece includudin t r recer act,is it the right paagag gin n th circumstances we're in? >>hahat p pcecede mmmmts frfrom la ra son who t tod said that ththe ministration should epare for a second smulus plan. bubut e the calls r smulus part two me ppreture. philee from the afcicio says yes. thth ststetet.c's portfolio manager and cnbc manager sayay it's tooearly. ron, we're okingtt an

unemployment rate of 9.5%, goig 10% proboblyly. we're looking at credit stalled for smalll and mid c c mpmpies. why is it premature. >> sececonprprogm is m me premature when y youavav't compleleteththe rst prprogm. atat would recommend wouldld b to take t t unused portion of the firsrst$787ililli stimulus prraram, cancece all thesee tytyeaprograms,s,hehe so-cacall shovel adady stuff and declarea withholding taxx holiday for a year. uble the homeuyuyer taxx credit to include everybody,y,ot just first time buyers to $15,5,00 extend that. i would do aa whole h hos of things.. i would stoptatalkg about tax hikes l lik the 4% suhaharg on people who make 20200,0 more to fund health care, t tak tax hikes off f thtatae entirirel ad front load allll t spending fore you go t t a new program. >> so th, let m me ask you this before you go to a new prprogm. w w do we ev know that t th first prprogm m is goingtoto wo? n, first a follow-up for you. why do you thinknk tt t e first

program is even n ining to w wor when we know the sings rate is alreadadyupup to 6.9%. obviously the monon that h h gogoneo the 95 of ameririca who got some money, t there s sing it. hoardidingasas >> i donon'think the first program's going to rk. i think it wasas vy y orly mposed. lili i i said, i woululd rewrite prprraram d take the existing fufus s th have been allocated thth7 7 $7bibiion ofhihich less an a third has been spent and take a p payll witithhdidi tax holiday y r r a year and put ca in ople's pocket and t tryo give them up frfron money t ty may spend if they get e enohh o it. right now, they'rere notetting enough. . >> i totally d disreree th that idea. u need to allow t the first stimulusus t ge a chanceeo work and neededto get thosos project going. you need to h hir peoplele, g ge ney out theoooor and then wewe'rgogoin to s srtrtseseng se impact. can say todaywe will need more ecoconoccecovery aidrom the governrnme b bause whenyoyo justooook at the magnitude of

e job losses,hehe loss off hohoing vval,, the loss ofoftotk value, we're talking about a $14 trillion loss ofof value.e. it n n surprising g th t the stimulus p pkakageould not be sufficientnt. we're going to n ndd more an atat. i would disagree wee do it in rmrms givingeople shsh. rather thaha givingg m mey to veve, order to get the m mon ou we wantnt to do moror infrastructure, , mo state a a local l fialalelief andore unemployment xtension. th's's aotf pplpl >> thatt d doenot imimule the ecomomy. that just fifiss e holele. you can gegethehe moneyntnto pepeop's'sands a lot fafaer. if w we rere going t spendmoney on infrastructure, we shoululd enend it on2121stt c cenry infrastructuturend blow the dollarss o on e electctcacal gr so we have eener cleanerobs dodownhehe adad. ththe wwmove to regulate the rkets moredrdramically as arar from the cftc t tod i i think put t a chillntntoalall streetet. you shouldn't be messing with

ththmamark just y y beforeee recoveveththe tlllln dollarsou just heardabout. >> some meers of congressse er c ctor from virginiaayay ththeye readyo wo with the admininirarati to work t t stimulus if the focucu is on small businenessifif we haveve cucuon tax cs. you're not hearingng athing ababt t ta cuts. u're hearing spending plansns. >> i don't thinkthe taxx cuts arwhat's needed right now. wh you needoo dodo. >> how arare uu going toto get bubusissss spending going? businessnvestment is one of f the most critical t thiss for te economy. i see t onntntertional profits. i n't see any incentives f buness to getoioing here. tax cutsarare not n necsasaly ining cause business to spepe money. >> how about cocoororattax cuts? they might take t the money and keep i it in the bank. the e on thatmamake sensns is t infrastrtrucrere ending. as ryayan said, th 2121 centu infrastructure is w wha this country needs.

if you build roadsdsndnd hools hahaveou something for your moneney. you'remproving productivitity and competitiveness o othe u u. onomy going foarar at's what the governmeme shouldbebe doingngececau busines n't readyoo spend and consumers aren't r rdydy to spe. thgovernment can fill the gap in thehe srtrt r and i think sinesses and consumers will come along. >e'll see aboutut that. this is a conversatitionthth needs s toee ontinued. >> t theeded isoioing evevethth right. ththe dederagovernment i thihin isoioing everything wrong. > cee back and ck thahaupup with some idence. thk k yo bothh of but appreciate it. ananyou, hehea, ron. presididt t oba pushihing for a governmentununne public alalth insurancnce plan. is that the bestolution for healthare reform? why dodon'wewe debate it can the presiside pay foruch a plan without hinintaxes? answswercocomi back.k. mr. evanans?hihiis janice from m onarar. i have rececveved automatic signal you'veve bn n in front-end crashshdodo y need help? yeah.

i'll contact e emeenency services and s sy y wi you. you okayay? yeah. onstar. ststdadardor one year on 14 chevyvy melel you have questioions o can give you the financnciaadadce you need? whe e ll you find the stababily y anresources keep you ahead of thihisra? these are e ugugh estions. that's why we brougughttotogeert powerful names in t t i indtry. intrododining rgan stanley smith barneyey. morgan stanley smithth bnen. he t to thinks your questioionst.t.heh. a new wealthth nanagent firm ththver 130 years of expxperncnce.

welcome back. prident obama renewing his pushsh f health care reform todaday. he said governrnntnt run hltlt insurance planould force insuranceompanies to competete and keep thehem honest. but is a public p pla the best apoach as cost estimates top trillion. debating the topic, arorofeor washington anddeeee universitit andennis smith, seor rearar fellow a hetage

unundaon. gentlelen,n, gd to have you the prprogm.m. >> thank yyou >> you both agree that health re needs to change. explain. >> well, i supuppo -- >>'m'morry. dennnnisgogo aad. t t goall isis toxpxpd health insurance coverageef the americans. first, l l t the keep the money they already en to p pvide for ththeiowown nefits. thatatilill lp expand verage. a goverernmtt plan is n notngngt a sckckg horse for a singlele-perer stem which the prident and his advisesers admit that themerican people will not go for,o they have co of with sort of t the stealth candidate,alalki about government health plan. this is pure speculation thatt governrnme h heah plan can cocoete, will lolowe the st. well,,ee haven't seen any of

thoseeestimates. wewee got cbcb scores on differerenbibillnow,onone of those billllsayowow a govoverent healthth pn n isgoing to lower thee c cos for the averara ereran. so let'setet tohehe backhaha wh the typical amemerinnfamily really ntnts. the prpresenen promised an average family w wou s se $2,500 a year, thahat' a s savg of$2 trillion. now we h hav thehe e expsisiist gornrnme policies that wiwi stst try j dolllls,s, $1.5 trililli, , n n w we' $3 try won apart from wherere the american peoplplththinwe are. . >> if i could ju inoror a moment. go ahead, tim. private insurance hasas had yeyearto get coststs u uerer ctl to make heheal i iurance avavaiblble all americans. what we've seen is mililliss of americans aree uninsured and mimillnsnsore are beinging unsusureevery year, particulular w wh the recent rereceion. and coststs keep goioing up

thouout--pocket costsoror t the averagagamameran went up30% between 20 and 2007, andd private insurancee hasototdone the job. it's time t to tryomometng else. st countririesn n is partf thth w wor have a public plplan and ininll ofhohosecountrieies, th s spe far less tn we do on healal insurance. so -- p par of our problem -- >> i don't know erer the figugus s ar coming from of $3 try wonnor a blblic pn.n. e most the cbo h hascored any plan atat's been pupubl has ben $1 trillionon, andhahat' for susubsieie for people o o ar uninsured,o theyey cfford private insures. aa cbo has comepp with any figures that a pububc c pl will cost mononey >> we'e' h had nostimates at suggest it will l veve mey.

and the n new additionanal ct o $1.5 trillion. the out-t-ofococts costs i lower than w wha has been,, a a rtrtf the pblem that erican families face is that someone else iss payayg g th bi. what wee ndd is gater transparency b bacinin th healal c car syemem, people ne -- >>owow do you dothat? how do you do that, dennis? how d do u getoror transparenen?? >> we c have transparency by publishing prices -- >> you get betterr transpararcy through a blblicpl.. all of the datat that has come outhahat everybodyy has been following aboutarariaons in cost in differerent p par of th cocotry has beenededicedata. private plans regard a a of their data a as proprietary. if we wantraransrency that's the e reonono favor a public plan. no, b t issue i how will

a publicic plan be lower thanan cost o of ivivatinsurancnce? >> threewa. number one -- >> n the way you do it - the way we've e se it d don i medicaid foror t last 40-plusus yearars,ss take it out of priders. >igight >> so medicaids 20 lowerr than private insurancee because y yo squeezed t theosospils and the ctcts. >> nobobodisis talking abobo mecaca as a mododel for a public plpl. . >> you're talking g abtt a governmeme plan. >> micicd is a government t plan. gentlelemeet mee intervene here, because ththiss s a bject we'r'robobvisly not going to ve some solutions on t tigight we want to havave u u ck and cocontuiuinghis important diussion. we so o apececte your insights. thank you, gentlemen. tim jost, and dennis smith. > > at you needtoto k kww heading into morrow's t tdiding ssion. lotsts oththe cket. backckn n a ment. i'm peter jacobsenenanand ve lost 31 pounds on nunutrysysm.

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on the plan t tomrorow from treaeasu.. and on w walststre today, the dow jones s inststri average fifishshedear the lows ofof the afternrnoo a a decline oththe session o 161 pointnts. s&500 dedeinined 17points, about %,%, an the n ndadaq composite lost better r anan 2%. the e eeststdout, the banks. jpmorgan, wells argo, banknk o america ended flat, thoughh i was higighe for much of t the ssion. walmart and ss alsoigher today. coa w wh h thececonquarter morrow. have a aoooo night. see you tomorrrrow shares of restataurtt chain byby tuesday a are up10% aftere urs. it s serdd upup fourth quarter rnrnin well above estimates. aiaig s w jury found s sta not t lilele for breachchf trus >> campbell so says t the ceo