it's an amazing thing when you show generosity of spirit to someone. and you want people to be saved and to have a better life, then you don't stop. the idea that we have saved five million people's lives, it's overwhelming. it's everything. >> if i can have everybody asked the same question meaning what you come to work every day to do and the answer is because we are the custodians responsible for the savings in the pensions of real people, like my mom and dad

and your mom and dad, than we do a better job. >> it's the world's largest listed hedge fund manager. and after 240 years in existence, man group has a woman in charge for the very first time. robin grew was promoted from resident -- president to chief executive last september. the high point of a 15 year career at the firm. the former barrister entered the world of finance three decades ago and never left. >> the speed of change, the impact of the global nature, the challenge of it just never stopped getting more and more infectious for me. francine: in this episode of leaders with laqua, i speak to robin grew about diversity, purpose and what the future holds in an ever-changing world. robin, thank you so much for joining us on leaders. the world is a bit strange. there are so many poly crises or whatever you want to call it, it's just difficult to get a handle of what comes next. >> yes, yes, that would be the

shortest answer i could ever give. it is difficult. i think of this year has taught us anything, it's that prediction is not our strongest suit, perhaps. and that isn't just in relation to markets, it's in relation to these big geopolitical events that we are still living with. francine: it's quite incredible to think we are in a better place. i feel like every six months there is the doom and gloom crew saying interest rates have gone too much, we need to reevaluate what happens next. yet, the economy holds -- i think that's -- >> i think that's right. when we have this conversation about higher for longer, which i still say out loud, and cross my fingers in some way that maybe i'm going to be entirely wrong, but higher for longer, where the nuances and that message is that what we are unlikely to see is 0%. we are probably unlikely to see 2%, we may see some 50 basis

points adjustments, for sure. but i think what we have been signaled clearly from central banks is that they are not frightened of using policy to control inflation or to try to respond to inflation. i think that's the messaging we should all kind of get used to. last 10 years, zero percent, free money. next 10 years, higher for longer with that slight nuances. francine: i imagine that 2024 could be difficult because of volatility, so it makes it harder to manage money. >> i think it does. i think the denomination we saw because of the kind of the hiccups in the system with the banking crisis or with ldi. that put premium back into liquidity. what's your duration risk, your liquidity risk, how do you manage these different economic cycles, and are you prepared or are you ready for hedging, which

means, let's remember what it means, it means that at times you are going to do well and at times you will do well with the entirety of your portfolio. and that's ok. that actually managing your portfolio for these different changing economic cycles or behaviors is what you are supposed to be doing. francine: does it change how you lead man group? francine: it changes because of the way we position the organization. we are an organization that is diverse. our capabilities are diverse. we have different engines doing different things on that fundamental discretionary side. we have products in the maca space, products that are equity, we are longer, long short. but what we are seeing is our clients are interested in more customized solutions. in solutions that actually answer the problems they've got with the challenge they have rather than has a product, by that and nothing else.

changes in the way you deliver an organization, changes in the way the value you are driving towards is not just about here's a product but it's a here's a solution. francine: what is a mean and how you focus your energy in 2024? i know you want to be in the private credit space but hiring is something you need to think of carefully. >> we don't make widgets. what we have our highly talented individuals who are focused on being the very best they can be in the workplace and delivering what they do. that could be in our engines are in our operations and middle office department are in our legal department. it's about a war on talent. hiring the very best people, retaining, keeping those people, giving them opportunity, giving them a space where they can be the very best they can be is incredibly important. it's tech, it's talent, its vision, it's about knowing that when people come to work every

day, every single person at man group adds value and is valued. that's important. if i could have everybody answer the same question, what you come to work to do every day. the answer is, because we are the custodians responsible for the savings in the pensions of real people, like my mom and dad and your mom and dad. then we do a better job every day. francine: how do you higher? there's a war on talent or they will get the very best. what do they want? >> it depends. i think that is the one size. who doesn't want to be around really smart people, number one. who doesn't want to be around a place which values your input. who doesn't want to be in a place that doesn't seek to be better today than it was yesterday and better tomorrow than it is. who doesn't want to be around a place that's interested in u.s. a person in interested in being

capable of making you better. so where we go? we go abroad, we go wide, we look for difference, energy, excitement, that person who is able to get energized. francine: you don't always hear that from a big finance chief executive. >> ok. i'm not apologizing. francine: is there perception for finance? >> finance has not done as good a job as we might in explaining the value we bring to society more generally. i don't cure cancer, that's not what i do. i wish i could. i wish i was that smart and capable to do that. but what we do is protect and enrich the savings in the pensions of people. people who have worked incredibly hard all of their lives and diligently put their money aside in the 401(k) or wherever it may be, and we are entrusted with that. and we can give them, if we do our job well, financial security.

we can provide something that enables legacy investing. it enables access to health care, education, a roof over your head to pay the bills, to all of those things. that's a pretty important thing to do. francine: you seem to be filled with a big sense of purpose, what you don't often get from hedge fund managers. >> i have a big sense of purpose. i run a firm that has a big sense of purpose. i think that energy is something we should put to work. when i sit down with big alligators, and we talk about what it is we are both trying to do is the same. i think the day we forget that, in the day that i think about our numbers in the institutional size numbers that we all talk about, we lose a bit of that sense of what we are here to do properly. francine: coming up, and adapting to change in an uncertain future. >> i'm not good at predicting what the next year or the next five years is going to be.

what we need to do is be flexible and to understand and be dynamic to think about the impact of markets and changes. ♪

francine: from a new geopolitical risks to climate change, a new era for interest rates, the world of finance is also adapting to change. i continue the conversation with man group chief executive robin group. do you worry about what the future economic footprint looks like for the world? >> our job is to think about how do we think about what could happen. how do you stress your portfolio, how do you think about what your outcomes are today. people drawing their pensions today versus 50 years from now. man group is 240 years old. we match the duration of some of our clients who are thinking about just returns for a year

from now, but are trying to think about what they are planning for 30 years from now. we are not good at predicting, i'm not good at predicting what the next year or the next five years is going to be. what we need to do is be flexible, to understand and be dynamic to think about the impacts of markets and changes. francine: are you worried about geopolitics or market function? >> we've changed geopolitics to geoeconomics is something of an impact point. so, as we think about what happened when russia invaded ukraine, and the impact on our fossil fuel pricing or you think about the worries and concerns around supply chain's post-covid, and the fact of these buffers when you think about corporate real estate, and the refinancing, it is inevitable, it's not a 30 year mortgage, these are things coming up for refinance within the next 3, 4, 5 years. that's a lot of money being put to work, and we are in an

environment where we look out at the city, office buildings are in a different place and have a different level of occupancy. these are big changes in geoeconomics, i think are things we have to take into consideration. francine: what he worry about the most? you have a ranking or is it almost one of the same? it's a huge transformation of change? >> i think it is a transformation of change. credit markets will play a role. i think it's a real certain thing. you will see lending tightening. you will see a stellar need for financing. but it isn't that all things are created equal. i'm a big proponent of active management and credit, but not every active manager and not every credit expert is going to be able to deliver in these environments. there is expertise of skill needed. how i think about prioritization. i think about it in terms of capabilities. i think about being as skilled as we can be in data, in

analytics, intech, in credit, in multiple asset classes. and then being able to pivot those. that's where i think about things. but do i think about that's the number one thing i'm focusing on. i don't have the luxury of that. i think we have to think about all of those things. francine: we are looking at acquisitions to be in certain spaces. >> we have always said we will grow the firm organically and we will always look for acquisitions to increase our capability on content for clients. i think what's interesting is we completed our acquisition with private credit management in the u.s. and middle markets. what's interesting is the multiples look more interesting. we've been talking about consolidation, we have been talking about consolidation since the gfc. this is one of those points i'm going to want to laugh about a few years time for now. but i actually think as we look at the entries into this space,

as we look about the cost of running our businesses, if we thick about the scale that we need to operate at, i think, and the multiples we are starting to see coming down, i think this could be an interesting time for consolidation. francine: but why has it been a long time coming, regulation or no appetite? >> i think when cash is free, it suffers that. i think the moment where people need to deploy a, at school gail, in liquid markets has been something to soften. the trend has been in passive, in private equity if you look at the number of asset that no longer sit in the public domain. that has been the theme over the last 10 years. i think when private equity doesn't have as much cash, we are not -- when the raising is harder, when lending is harder, these are opportunities for niche spaces and expertise to come about, and they want scale, they need to be able to approve

it at scale and having an organization that can deliver the mountain of scale we put in play. the pit that's less sexy and exciting. that infrastructure, the ability to take businesses and grow them is what we do. francine: what do you think of the city of london, will it lose lester, there's a lot it can offer, where do you see it in five years? >> you are talking to u.k. listed ceo. i could not be more interested in u.k. plc. i think we have held such an extraordinary position in financial markets, so anything we can do to keep that shine i think it's important, but competition acai, and we shouldn't, in the way that we shouldn't in our firms, sit on our hands and think that all of our history is going to count for long if we don't keep running. so i'm a great believer that we drive and continue to drive u.k.

plc, there is such a lot of innovation, creativity, growth, such a lot of expertise that sits in these small shores. anything we can do to keep that alive and keep it at its top game, i'm all for. we operate as a global organization and i'm going to go where there is strong capability to invest, where the markets are deeper, where the clients need us to be, and where we can find opportunity. i will continue to look for that. but i'm a u.k. listed ceo who can't help but want this to be great. francine: up next, robin grew on being a female leader in an industry traditionally dominated by men. >> i am hopeful that we are going to see a better affection of difference at the top of the reorganization, be it financial services broadening that. ♪

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francine: women make up less than a quarter of employees at the thousands of hedge funds at the other alternative investment funds. or even more of minority and senior positions. when man group appointed an all-female leadership team last year, and marked a massive shift for the company and the milestone for the industry. i continue the conversation with robert grew. 240 years old, man group is. first female chief executive of

an institution that's 240 years old. should have happened earlier, are you optimistic about the future of females in finance? >> i am hopeful we will see a better reflection of difference at the top of every organization, be it financial services bordering that. has it been a long time coming, i can't help but to say it would be terrific if we could see more female ceos before me. i hope we see a lot more after me. but difference is important. i think anything that enables us to put the most talented people at the top of organizations and to lead those organizations with enthusiasm and capability is what we are after. so, i'm hopeful that i'm knocking down some doors, barriers. francine: the first time someone meets you it's like the infectious energy people notice,

is that how you lead? >> yes. is one of those things, i have been accused of being many things over my time, but that slight duracell bunny, ever ready, just keep them going. i'm a bit that. i have an enthusiasm for what we do and a passion for what we do. it is sometimes like i am a big boom in the room. but it's something that i think is incredibly important. you don't do this job 98%. you do this job, this is where -- this is why my mathematicians hate me if i say anything larger than a hundred percent. francine: were you always like that or is it something you learn? >> it's natural and it's what's forged my career, that willingness and that excitement to learn and to be part of fixing things, doing things better has been somewhat of a hallmark. i have enjoyment for learning

and doing things. i walk into our offices, and in the short journey, thankfully in london you have from zero to the fifth floor. if there somebody in the elevator with me, i'm asking a thousand questions. they cannot wait to get out of the door by the end of it. it's interesting what's going on in what's happening at its interest in people. i fundamentally am driven by being interested in the people i work with and in the people who we are here to work for. francine: you started as a criminal barrister and then went into finance three decades ago. what made you switch? >> i loved being an advocate. perhaps i think i'm still in advocat in many ways. i was in the criminal and civil bar and i thought, i will go to this commerce thing and i thought to myself, and i will go back and become a commercial barrister. and it sucked me in. i never went back.

the speed of change, the impacts, the global nature, the challenge of it just never stopped getting more and more infectious. that legal training, has it been useful, yes. has advocacy been more useful, probably. but it has been the best journey. francine: do you have bad days, if you do, do you have a mentor? >> ghostbusters. if i have a bad day i have always been a half-full kind of person. every belief i have is that you make the best out of those tough days. of course there are tough days, of course there are days when i -- you put a challenge in front of you when performance is in grade or where i feel like we could've done a better job. those are moments where you've gotta move forward. you have to take the next step forward. and that's what i do. i think it's resilience. i think it is part and parcel of

my makeup, to be resilient, who do i turn to? i turn to friends and family and i take a break, i take a breather. normally not very longer breather because i get too excited by other things, but i fill my life with the things that are really positive around me. i have a really great family and around me. i have an extraordinary wife and a son, my parents and friends, i am enriched by that, so that enables me to take the next step. francine: do you think there is a difference being a leader in 2024 to what it was like in 2010? does leadership or chief executive jobs need to come with more of a sense of purpose and morally leading? >> i don't know a different way of doing it than the way i do it and that's with a sense of purpose, for sure. when you speak and you are in charge of an organization, i think it is incumbent upon

leaders to be enthused and to be passionate and be engaged. i think when times are tough, when things are tricky in the world, i think it's important that you know that and that you acknowledge that in your organizations. and we have had some tough times in the world. for people to live there live. we run global organizations with people who come from places that are now in war zones or that are too close to borders where there are war zones, where the challenges have been very real post-covid, or where the issues are being felt materially in politics, and not to acknowledge that i think feels inauthentic. francine: when you are in charge of a big organization, it's

tough being close to your employees, how do you do that? >> it's about communication, being available and transparent, it's about setting your stall out. who are we, what are we, what are we here to do and how are we going to do that? how do we do that theteams, yout people. different people come with different backgrounds and different flavors of their experience of life. it isn't an easy thing to do, it's just a thing we should do. francine: it's tough, also, employing people that will say no to you. how much do you think of that? being surrounded by people who say, this is not a great idea? >> is critical. if i have people around me, their excellence needs to be something i hear. it's less likely -- my executive team might get cross with me with saying this, but it's really not the most likely call of people. my executive team is less likely

from which the next brilliant ideas going to sprout and germinate. it's going to be levels of other people within the firm. we need to hear that and it's important that i am seen as capable of listening and changing my position. there are times when i am going to be less willing to change my position, but having somebody who will come from many parts of the organization to say, hey, i feel this way about this issue and i don't think i'm being hurt is important. francine: where is -- where are you in five years? >> still a duracell bunny. i'm the best answer to every battery life but perhaps on a renewable charger basis. where am i, i hope still leading me and grew. i hope looking back on the last five years and thinking how i could do it even better. i hope driving things with the same passion and enthusiasm, and i hope with the same brilliant set of people around me. francine: thank you so much.

>> you are very welcome. ♪hanks for having me. and they're all coming? those who are still with us, yes. grandpa! what's this? your wings. light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly.

david: from beverly hills, this is a special edition of bloomberg wall street week, i'm david westin. this week, karen of bridgewater on the geopolitics of industrial policy. karen: everything you see officially is doing something else. david: steven mnuchin on his plans to buy tiktok. stephen: i think the algorithms

could