david: this is my kitchen table

and also my filing system. over much of the past decades, i have thought the highest calling of mankind is private equity. then i started interviewing. i learned help leaders make it to the top. >> i did not negotiate. david: if i have something i like to sell and how they stay there. you not feel inadequate being the second wealthiest man in the world, is there -- is that right? 40 years ago, mike wirth joined chevron. today, mike wirth's ceo of chevron and dealing with the multiple issues that energy companies deal with, including renewable energy. i sat down with mike wirth to talk about what it is like to run chevron in the current environment.

tell me about the state of the oil right now. it seems as if large oil companies are doing quite well. have record revenues and as a result, some in the white house and other places have suggested a windfall profits tax. is the industry and such shape that it can afford this? mike: it is a cyclical industry. we see prices go up and down. windfall profits tax is not going to encourage more supply. it is not likely to reduce prices. in fact, you can do the opposite. president carter tried this in 1980. it was rescinded several years later. it did not result in fort -- in more investment but less. normally, if you want less smoking, you tax cigarettes, but if you want more supply of oil

to bring prices down, putting out cash taxes on energy production is not a good idea. david: you go to washington to talk to legislators. mike: i do. uplifting is not the first word that comes to mind. there are detailed discussions. we need to help regulators understand potential consequences of things they are considering. david: we you say washington does not understand the economics of the energy industry? mike: i have empathy for people who sit in these roles. they have often broad responsibilities. they may not have personal expertise in some of the areas they are responsible for. i view my job to provide injective -- objective input and help them avoid unintended consequences and achieve the

goals they are looking to achieve. david: when the president says energy companies are gouging the american people, you are used to this, i assume? you do not like it, but you probably are accepting it. mike: i disagree with that characterization. we are an industry of price takers, not price makers. these are global commodity markets. prices go up and come down. we allocate billions every year. just two years ago, we were losing billions of dollars as prices plummeted. duty cycle, it is an industry that generates 10%-ish returns, which is pretty modest. david: the war in ukraine has driven oil prices up. do you think that is the

principal reason why major energy companies are doing so well? because supply has been reduced because of ukraine? using without war does end, it will have an impact on reducing energy prices in carbon areas? mike: the war and associated actions have definitely had an impact on energy markets, but if you step back and look at the broader context, in 2020, we sought demand collapse with the world locked down. companies in our industry had to stop producing because there was no place to store the oil that was not needed. investment levels came down. nobody knew how long this would last. as the economy recovered and we had vaccines, the industry has been struggling to keep up with the rate of growth. the market was already in a tight situation before the war.

i do think when it is eventually resolved, uncertainty and the risk to supply from one of the world's largest suppliers will be reduced and markets will reflect that. david: the number of years ago, oil prices went as low as $20 a barrel. when it was that low, companies like chevron and others said, we cannot afford to drill anymore because we need to have oil at $70 a barrel to make it profitable. has that come back now that oil prices are back? are people drilling in major projects to get oil that will take 10 years to build and drill? mike: we are seeing some of that. what has really changed in the last decade is what we are seeing in the u.s. into the

permian basin but also in other countries. that is the ability to produce oil and gas that -- from a rock that is hard and has not been productive, but with directional drilling and the ability to fracture these formations, we are seeing oil produced from areas that we could not before and at prices that are lower than some of these complex, difficult projects. the need for the ultradeep water in the arctic has been reduced. we see other resources come in at a lower cost. david: how many employees does chevron have? mike: about 36,000. david: how much oil do you produce a day? mike: a bit over 3 million barrels. david: the u.s. produces 10 million barrels a day? mike: closer to 12 million.

david: you are producing pretty for percent of the oil produced in the u.s.? mike: as a company, our u.s. production is about 1.2 million barrels a day. we are less than 10% of u.s. production. david: the u.s. is more or less energy sufficient compared to the 1960's or 1970's. we probably consume 10 to 12 million barrels a day. mike: closer to 20. david: we are importing less than before. where from mostly? mike: canada. our neighbors are the largest suppliers of oil. we are a big customer of canada. they are a large resource country. david: how do you get that oil

down? mike: other pipelines have been built. some of it flows by rail, some of it by ship you can bring it by ship. canada is the largest supplier, then others. we bring in some oil from the middle east but much less. david: i do think there is much oil to be found in the lower fortier -- lower 48 or alaska. most of us know where the oil is. david: people have said that over time and there have always been surprises. the u.s. has been explored more than any other place in the world. the industry has a good idea, but technology allows you to recovery things you have not before that. that is the story of shale. the other one that continues to be a positive straight is the deepwater gulf of mexico. we can go out and drill in a

mile or more of water depth and then go down a few miles into the earth and find large, large fields. the gulf is still relatively underexplored. there is still room for more discoveries. david: when you are starting 40 years ago, did you say i might be ceo someday? mike: no. i just hoped i would last two weeks to get my next paycheck.

david: when was chevron created? mike: 1879 in southern california. it was called pacific coast oil company. make the first commercial discovery in california. it became part of the rockefeller's standard oil trust in the latter part of the 1800s and that became standard oil of california when standard oil trust was broken up. our headquarters have always been in california. we have been part of world history. we made the first discovery in saudi arabia, among other

milestones. we have a long history of the world reflected in our company. david: i want to get gas, is there really a difference between the oil that chevron produces and one of your competitors? gasoline is pretty much the same. mike: there are minimum standards that have to be met. what you find is that different companies either exceed those bank more or less than others and also we have special additives. we have an additive company that manufactures and additive that has a special chemistry to keep engines clean. as engines get more sophisticated, you can have carbon deposits that can affect performance in cylinders, injectors. weakling that up better than others. david: if you need gas, will you

stop at an exxons station or do you keep going until you see a chevron? mike: i keep going. david: how does one become ceo chevron? where you -- where were you born? mike: loss almost, new mexico and i grew up in colorado. and you went to college where? david: university of colorado at boulder, studied chemical engineering. and he said, i want to work in energy? mike: i had a summer internship where i work in a refinery, found the work and people interesting. i had an offer to come to the west coast and work for standard of california. it looks like a fun place. at a place where i could do interesting work. david: you've worked for this one employer since you graduated from college? we started, did you say i might

be ceo some day? mike: no. i just hoped that would last two weeks until my next paycheck. david: did you move around the world over the course of 40 years? what did you do to rise up? where you and operations person, explorations percent? mike: i started as a design engineer and worked on big projects. not the type of oil shall we use today but the other type. i've built a plant that you cannot find any trace of today, work on a facility in california that helped bring in oil from offshore. sold for pennies on the dollar. eventually a project in africa that never happened because of the civil war. i began in -- by specializing in unsuccessful projects inside, this does not look like a great career path, self i moved into marketing where i dealt gas

stations -- built gas stations and replaced underground tanks made of steel with ones made of fiberglass. we remember the old wheels that was spent around on a gasoline pump. i put in the first electronic pumps back in the day. these were smaller projects, but i started to understand how the business worked. from there, a variety of roles across different businesses and around the world. david: 20 become ceo? mike: five years ago. david: some might say god looks favorably upon ceos of energy companies because they live a long time. a number of your predecessors have lived a long time. do they call you with advice? mike: i am fortunate. the three people who immediately preceded me, each for roughly a decade, live within a few miles

of where i live. i see them regularly. we have lunch together. david: that is a plus. do they tell you you are doing this or that wrong? mike: i get good advice. these are people who have done my job. i am interested in their advice. they have lived through wars, the fall of the soviet union, terrorist attacks, financial crises. they have seen oil markets go through generations of geopolitical surprises. during covid, the first thing i did was call each of them and say, what lessons did you learn during the prices you face? how do you think i should handle things? we have a great relationship and i see them regularly. mike: -- david: you are still young. you could do this for quite a well. do you have any ambition to going to the federal government as a cabinet officer and to do

anything other than the energy industry? would you have any other career ambitions? mike: i love what i do. and of the company and the people. i do not have any ambition to do anything other than a good job. david: what do you do for relaxation? mike: anything that involves family. i have four children. they are active in outdoor activities. event wife is a good golfer and skier. you will seek me on a golf course, skiing or flyfishing with family. david: any of your children in the energy world? mike: no. david: if you have a low handicap and golf, that is not good for being a ceo. it means you are spinning too much time on the golf course. are you a handicap golfer? mike: talk from it. it might wife is almost a scratch handicap golfer. i can eat for her in big tournament -- i caddy for her in

big tournaments.

david: large carbon energy companies seem to be having difficulty. are they producing large amounts of carbon energy, or are they supposed to transition to renewable energy? what are you doing to transition? mike: we are focused on leveraging our strengths to deliver lower carbon energy. what that means is in the near-term, we can find ways and we are finding ways to reduce

the greenhouse gas impact of the energy the world uses today. we are reducing emissions associated with oil and gas. the same time, we are pulling inherently lower carbon energy businesses, things like renewable fuels, hydrogen, carbon capture storage, geothermal. we are investing in this and says that will play a role tomorrow. there is no one solution. david: in 2022, you bought a renewable energy company. what was that about? mike: we had the renewable fuels business ourselves. this company was one of the leading sources of i/o diesel, soon to be renewable diesel in the u.s. they have great capabilities in sourcing. in any fuels business, raw

materials are an important part of the value chain. traditional petroleum products, we have deep expertise in materials sourcing for that. you are talking about wrong materials like used cooking oil, distillers corn oil, other agricultural products. these art markets we do not have experience in. the quality, logistics, commercial dimensions of this markets are things some people are very good at and manufacturing facilities. and we have brand positions in states like california that encourage this. this makes for a powerful renewable energy business. david: renewable area is obviously a growth area. do you think if you were going to make more acquisitions you are likely to do that more in the renewable area or the carbon area?

mike: there is an active field of opportunity in both. for us, it is driven by strategy and asset quality value. but, over the last two years, we have done a big traditional energy deal and renewable acquisitions. in the years ahead, we will probably do acquisitions in both. david: when president nixon took over, there was an oil spill in santa barbara. in -- under obama, there was one in the gulf. right now, when you are drilling offshore, how safe is it to avoid environmental damage? are there greater precautions than there used to be? mike: yes. the industry has continually improved operating practices, equipment, certainly regulators in the u.s. have high standards. in the event of newer

technologies, they have continued very best continually made this safer. these are challenging operations . the industry has a strong track record today. there have been some notable incidents over time, but every company is working to prevent the. -- those. david: do you not worry about offshore drilling problems anymore because of safety? mike: every day, i get up and worry about safety and the environment. our people work in a demanding, highly technical distance. we have strict protocols and standards to keep people and the environment safe. david: why do you think it is that people love energy but not energy companies? people around the world consumed enormous amounts of oil and gas

and the people who provide it do not seem to be popular. my? mike: i do not know exactly. we are a big company. sometimes baked is not popular. big energy, big government, big tech. maybe the private equity is an exception, but we are a big company. we represent less than 2% of global oil production. it is a competitive market. we are a relatively small player. it is important to remember that we need a balanced approach to energy. that means affordability, because affordable energy is essential for prosperity, reliable supply for national security, because energy security and national security are linked. and protecting the environment. as prices get high, you find people that are upset.

part of that is because we have not necessarily been able to provide the right balance among those three. david: to improve the overall image of the industry, is there something you think ceos can do to improve the image so that people when they walked on the street say, wow, chevron has done a great job? is that possible? or do energy companies not have that likely image? mike: i think what would help is to engage in a more balanced conversation about the benefits of energy. the lot of people do not have our views on what the consequences are of the use of energy, but they have made advancements in the quality of life possible that we would not have imagined two centuries ago. as we go forward, it is absolutely likely that we find ways to meet the needs of a growing world and produce carbon. david: suppose that tomorrow you

decide to become a cabinet officer or do something else. what would you say you have achieved as ceo of chevron that you are most proud of? mike: i would hope people would say he thought of others first, he strengthened the culture of our company, kept people safe, and may the company a better company when he left that when he found it. - [mo] if you're thinking about going back to school, this is for you. ♪ - i ended up spending less money my entire time at snhu than i did in just one year at my other university. - [juan] my time at snhu has given me more confidence. now i can go for that promotion. - if you're ready to go back to school... you can do it. southern new hampshire university has changed my life. and it can change yours too. ♪ - [announcer] visit snhu.edu.

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dinosaurs -- that the tail of these dinosaurs could act like a whip. it makes that cracking noise. it is because the tip of the whip goes twice the speed of sound. i think the way they got this was to impress the females by making loud booms.