>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> focus tonight is on war in the middle east. the conflict between israel and hamas continues after a brief humanitarian truce unraveled on saturday.

the death toll on the palestinian side has risen to over 1000. over 50 israeli soldiers have lost their lives. president obama called benjamin netanyahu urges cease-fire. early monday the un security council echoed the call. peace remains elusive. israel surprised by the strength of the rocket arsenal and the reach of its tunnel network wants to neutralize the threat. peace negotiations are complicated because neither the u.s. nor israel deal direct with hamas. this weekend i traveled to doha where the political leader of hamas lives in exile. i sat down for an hour long conversation with him on saturday. >> thank you for allowing us to come to your home for conversation especially this week.

secretary john kerry had asked for a week of cease-fire so the parties could negotiate. why did that not happened? >> he did exert efforts and he came to the region and we do appreciate his efforts that -- -- to stop the bloodletting and we received the ideas of john kerry and the proposal. we didn't see within the circuit of leadership to stop the israeli aggression and lift the siege and to meet the demands of the palestinian people. the israeli cabinet refused the proposal and they are to be held responsible.

israel has failed the nine-month negotiation that he pulled the strings between the palestinians and the israelis. >> many people will say the israeli aggression would not have happened if rockets from gaza had not rained down on israel. >> who did start this episode, you do understand that the evidence took place in the west bank. some teenagers were unaccounted for in the west bank. netanyahu did not rain in the settlers and they practiced heinous crimes. they burned someone alive. they started the aggression on

gaza and the rockets are a response for this aggression. >> when you look at those israeli teenagers who were murdered, did hamas have anything to do with it? >> from the start i did declare and announce that we did not know who carried out such an operation. we do not know the perpetrators. they accused hamas. these settlers are located on the west bank. the settlors is illegal. on the contrary the word -- he

was burned alive. >> prime minister netanyahu called his parents with great apology and grief for the death of that young man. you have not called the parents of the israeli teenagers who were killed. you said i cannot condemn the killing of settlers. >> there are two distinctions here. the first is as follows. those who burned him alive, they were settlers and they were known, the israeli authority knows them. when it comes to the teenagers no one knew who killed them. the other distinction is as follows. he lives in his country. the settlers do live on illegal land. they are armed, the settlers carry weapons and they killed the palestinians and they run over woman and children. they sold the land and agriculture. the settlements are illegal and the settlers are illegal.

their presence is illegal. >> do you think the killing will begin anew after the cease-fire ? >> those responsible for killing our people, 900 martyrs and 5000 or 6000 casualties, netanyahu is a responsible person. it sends messages to the world. it is high time to lift the siege. gaza wants to live. >> that is what secretary asked to be negotiated after the cease-fire so you could do that you're asking them to do that as a precondition to negotiations. >> this is not a prerequisite. life is a right for our people

in palestine. since 2006, if you refuse the outcomes of our election our people lived under the siege for eight years. this is a collective punishment. we have to have an airport. this is the first message. in order to stop the bloodletting we have to look at the underlying causes and the occupation. netanyahu does not take heed of our rights. john kerry tried to find a window to meet our target. netanyahu has killed our dream and he killed the american initiative. >> the egyptians had a cease-fire proposal which the israelis accepted and you did not.

>> we did not agree for two reasons. the first reason because this initiative does not lift the siege. it starts with a cease-fire and subject us to negotiations that we do not know the outcome. the other thing is as follows. the egyptians did not offer dialogue with the factions in gaza. in the past we managed with the egyptians a number of maneuvers. we have reached a truce. the method was wrong. that is why it has failed. >> here is what many people believe. that regardless before the israeli rockets came there were hamas rockets. >> this is an account.

this is incorrect. this started in the west bank. this is in the israeli towns and this is why he wanted to revenge. he started this episode and we retaliated. we do not like to launch rockets and target people. if you look at the martyrs, most of them are civilians. on the other side are militants, combatants. this is emblematic of the morality of the resistance and the morality of the israeli aggression. >> it is not just israelis who are saying this. this is former president bill clinton. hamas was aware of what happened

when they started raining rockets. they fired 1000 and they have a strategy designed to force israel to kill their own civilians so the rest of the world will condemn them. that is president clinton, not an israeli. a man who worked hard to create peace between palestinians and israelis. >> the world does not want to blame the israelis. the rest of the world knows the blame is on the side of the israelis. when it comes to the work this did not take place on the side of the palestinians. if you can imagine the following scenario. when the siege is listed, then

when we have a window to stop the blood letting and stuff the security forces, why do you all for security for israel and why do you call for lifting the siege on the palestinians, why do you give the right to live for the palestinians? this is the largest occupation in the world. >> this is what secretary kerry is preparing and trying to do, to engage israel and hamas through turkey and qatar to deal with the issues of the border crossings, deal with the issue of fishing rights and the port and the issue of the condition of the way in gaza but you have to do that through negotiations. that is what the secretary is trying to do but missiles are flying back and forth.

>> the method of the americans is incorrect. they present us [indiscernible] and the palestinians. they leave the palestinians subject to black mailing. they had nine months of negotiations and the outcome was zero. we will be delving into negotiations. they know our rights and as a superpower they can comepel the

israelis and i do call upon the administration not only to take heed, they need to diagnose the disease and they need to have our state emerge on the borders of 1967. >> not 1948. 1967 borders. >> this is the program. >> the problem is? >> the problem is the siege, the occupation. we have to stop the occupation and stop the siege and then we can have security and peace in the region. >> president obama said another source said no nation can expect not to respond when rockets have

been rained down on top of them and the argument is it would not have happened if you had not sent those rockets in the beginning. let me move this beyond that. what is your short-term goal and your long-term goal? >> first of all -- those who started shooting is not gaza. it is not gaza. the rockets were a defense against aggression. it is mr. obama who was stupefied or surprised by such action. the question is as follows. do you expect anyone not to respond if he is attacked in his own homeland so why obama and the leaders of the free world,

why don't they [inaudible] without having a window of hope, would it be possible for us to live time and time again under occupation. human beings got to -- ought to determine themselves. if we are under siege we have to defend ourselves. there are 600,000 settlers and netanyahu stops every single effort to reach peace. the word is to always expect an explosion. what do i want? we want peace without occupation, without settlement,

we need to live in palestine. >> they took their settlers out and took their military out and said here is gaza. we are taking the settlers out. even american businessmen gave the money. did you miss an opportunity to take advantage of that? sooner than later you begin using that as a military place to rain rockets. >> israel withdrew and they expelled the settlers. however it started with aggression. you can ask the egyptians who were the sponsors of initiatives who did violate the initiative.

israel time and time again violates this. israel withdrew. they are an occupation force. gaza is not away from the aggression of israel. if gaza lives without occupation, without aggression, without blockade, without closing of the crossings. this applies to the west inc. as well. well. we are one nation. we want to live without occupation. >> do you want to live in coexistence with israel? >> i do not coexist with occupation, with settlers.

>> it withdraws from the west bank, 67 borders. is that the beginning of a two state solution that will bring finally -- >> up to this moment they did not give us any indication they will withdraw from the west bank. if you look at their leaders' statements -- when they commit itself to withdrawal from the west bank. we will reach peace. >> will you pledge not to eradicate israel? >> do you think that palestinians who suffer occupation and settlement can

eradicate israel? this is propaganda. we need to live in peace on our land. >> i do not think you can but there needs to be a justice for palestinians, a territory for palestinians. people worry the idea of a two state solution is slipping away. >> yes. the world is that the two state solution is slipping away. those who killed it are the leaders of israel. you can go back to all the administrations and the leaders, a number of them tried, i read

the memoirs of carter. he knew what was going on. those who kill the political path is israel. i can say that on air. the palestinians want to live free in an independent state. we have two parts. the first one is the peaceful one. for the rest of the world to pressurize israel or to compel it to withdraw. if it has failed, then we have to resist, we have to defend ourselves. >> rather than saying we cannot eradicate israel why don't you say we do not want to eradicate israel, we want to live side-by-side having a full state for us and our people, why can't

you say that? >> what does it mean when hamas agrees with fatah and all the factions in the unity government has said our national goal, we have joined forces to reach it is to have a state on the borders of 1967, that jerusalem is the capital and the return of the citizens question mark that means that palestinians have agreed. israel negotiated with arafat and poisoned him. they're killing the peace process. no one can blame the palestinian's. the arabs had their initiative in beirut. we did israel do, what did the administration do, they provided -- [indiscernible] to reach but those who killed it

was israel. she says she wants to be but it wants security. it wants the land. >> what you reflect is what has been said, the problem here in the end is palestinians do not trust the israelis and the israelis do not trust the palestinians. in the end, that is the problem. how do you get beyond that? how do you create trust? >> you think that the key for the solution is trust. we are enemies. they are the occupiers, we are enemies. the solutions do not start with trust. the solution starts with the international community's volition to say to israel stop

enough is enough. they owe it to compel israel. how can i trust my enemy? we have had a number of negotiations in the field. >> you think that israel acts the behest of the united states? >> the capacity of the american administration to pressure israel has nothing to do with israel listening to america. it emanates from the fact that it is a superpower. it is responsible. why did america come to iraq and why did it expel saddam hussein from kuwait? any nation that supersedes the red lines is a superpower or to compel the other to meet their standards. eisenhower in the 1950's put

pressure on israel after the war of 1956 to move away from sinai. but now they do not want to exercise their responsibility. >> and they were able to form an agreement at camp david. the israelis give back territory in the egyptians signed peace agreement. >> begin withdrew. they withdrew from jerusalem and the west bank which was occupied. they had an overture for the syrians and they had an agreement with the egyptians. why israel is keeping [indiscernible] ♪

about hamas and gaza. its governance was in

a bad way. it could not pay it civil servants so it was open to a unity agreement with the palestinian authority and mr. abbas. is that unity working today? does mr. abbas play in all of this? >> it used to suffer, it's management to gaza was everyially waste amounted single -- we essentially surmounted every single challenge. but indeed insful the last few months we were short of paying the servants.

do with a rise in israel. not want to pull the strings of government. we wanted for the unity government. when it happened israel prevented it from sending the transaction. they said you want to have a blockade on us. we cannot go to university. it is an open-air jail. civil servants along with the family -- families were deprived from the model -- money

from the settlement. this is why gaza turned into a time ticking bomb that blew in the face of israel. this is actually an outrage. this is a manifestation of outrage. why do you kill us for these election calculations but blocks the crossings. why we do not have an airport, how could you ask us why are you surprised because of our resistance? we resist and we do not transgress. he is our partner in conciliation. >> you accept his leadership to negotiate with the israelis through secretary kerry and he can speak for hamas and hamas accepts his principles and values and is negotiating stance.

>> mahmoud abbas is our partner in authority and conciliation. when it comes to negotiations there are no negotiations anymore. netanyahu has trampled on it. he turned away every single choice. hamas has talked about the management of the political decision. nine months ago he went unilaterally, he did not consult the other factions. we as palestinians are ready to participate in reaching the difficult decision but it has to be and to civilized.

-- institutionalized. it has to be linked to our people. pinning their hopes on negotiations is incorrect. how could you negotiate a person who denies your pride. how could i negotiate? our negotiations are failing because israel has the upper hand in the do not take heed of what we say. >> they insist they must have defense or says on the jordan forces on the jordan river. they suggest that there have to be restrictions on the a palestinian state. all of that is unacceptable to you and to mr. abbas and anybody who represents the palestinian viewpoint.

>> on the other side they are not taking heed of the palestinian issues. when it comes to the solution to have the palestinian state why -- the state ought to be independent and why it out to be demilitarized and sovereign. this is a lie and you cannot transgress me. i have the right to live in a sovereign country and have a militarized state. who accepts a state without arms to be subject to the aggression of others?

i cannot accept any tutelage of any other entity. but if you say you're palestinian and we can give you a easier in a piecemeal fashion, now. the palestinian people are very cultivated. they did struggle. they are civilized. they have plenty of brains. but now we are deprived from freedom, from independence. my message to america and the world which talks about democracy time and time again. we need to apply the standard. >> let me ask you about this. it is also said that hamas was out of sight and almost out of mind before this most recent explosion of violence.

you left damascus. it is said that syria's ally iran even though you met with the supreme leader was not supporting you as much as it had. egypt was not supporting you the way that president morsi was supporting you. president sisi has a different attitude. you were alone except for qatar. is that a fair observation of where hamas is today? they want to read us as you explained. actually, i will leave it to you. you can think that we are in a difficult position.

we did fight the occupants. the world was surprised against our resistance against the israeli army. this is that hamas' power has nothing to do with the regional circumstances. it emanates from its sticking to its people. it represents the palestinian people's need and aspirations. palestinians long for freedom and independence. we reflect their aspirations. they think that hamas is doing well. this is the power of hamas. country oppose me or not, yes. but it is a sideline impact.

this is the justice of our cause. >> you're saying that the people in gaza who are suffering the most in this understand and support everything that hamas is doing notwithstanding the terrible consequences for civilians and for children? they support you, they believe, they are willing to endure this war because they think that what? >> it might sound contradicting. the image might be contradictory but it is the truth. the voices of palestinians, they say that we are suffering indeed he has of the crimes of israel and the carnage and also the homes that were reduced to rubble.

they say they do not want to emerge from the war without we were dying slowly and now the palestinian people had enough -- they do not make distinctions between slaughter an instant death. they say we are suffering. we insist on lifting the siege. >> there is this issue that comes up between this discussion and i want to go to the negotiations now. representatives, the foreign minister of turkey and the

foreign missed -- minister of qatar is meeting with the foreign secretary of the u.s. in paris. tell us what is going on, what is the secretary of state asking through cutter -- qatar and turkey of you, what does he want of you? >> it is to do with the from different countries. they want to think about the reconstruction of gaza and providing assistance. we do appreciate these efforts . we thank every single country that provides assistance to our people. however this is not enough only. because the cause is not only humanitarian, it is national at , political.

the other problem is to lift the siege and finish the occupation, as for them, they told ministers the we're here. the went to paris and part of the talk in addition to reconstruction and providing assistance is to seek a way whereby we can reach an agreement to stop this war and secure lifting the siege and we said to them any agreement that stops the aggression and lifts the siege, we will cooperate. and i have cooperated with mediators. even the admission of -- mission of john kerry. >> if the siege is ended, i that you mean the borders are open, the port is open, fishing rights, what else? >> these are the fundamental issues in gaza and the west bank as well since june 12. israel rounded up hundreds and

some of them were those people who were released. that means israel had violated the agreement. if these demands were met and the gazans felt the sieges -- siege is lifted, be sure that war would be stopped. >> there would be no more israeli rockets? they can make the deal for you. >> yes. we have authorized them and we asked them to observe every single effort to leave no ons -- no stone unturned.

we welcomed the mediation with the americans and the egyptians as well. our condition is to meet the demands of our people. lift the siege and stop the occupation. and the rest of the demands. >> some people raise this question. do you have to get approval from the military wing of hamas who are fighting now in gaza ? do you have to have their approval before you can make a commitment? >> we are one single of men. -- movement. the decision has to do with the political leaders. when the political leaders commit to something then the military wing will commit itself, two. >> if you make a decision the military will follow. >> definitely.

we are an institution. we are a respected institution. the leaders can take a decision. every single person within the movement whether there are militants or civilians, they will follow. the leaders do not take any step unless it means [indiscernible] -- meets the demands of all palestinian people. >> some ask why are you here and not in gaza. if you're the voice of hamas you should be in hamas, and gaza with the people of gaza. that is the place for you. >> this is a very reasonable question, logical question. people ask to 6 million in the diaspora why they are not in gaza. expelled how --

gazans. i am from the west tank. millions were compelled to live outside. they are compelling others to live under occupation. it is natural for me to be but occupation does not allow me to do so. you have hundreds of thousands of palestinians in america and they long to go back to palestine. palestinians long for their home country. that is why we insist to return. -- of the refugees to return. >> you cannot get there. >> yes, definitely. my natural existence is there but i am compelled to live in jordan, in kuwait, where i used to be a student and in syria and qatar.

palestinians follow a nomadic kind of journey. it is a daunting journey. that is why it is high time for the occupation to stop. and the settlement to be stopped and for the people of palestine to be empowered and for the refugees to come back. -- come back to their only and. >> how do you think this will end? notvery single occupation to fade. -- ought to fade. every occupation ought to stop. it is difficult. mandela paid plenty but he was a story is. -- victorious. the palestinian people will be independent. that is why i say i say to the mericans --

>> he recognized and reconciled with the people that he was in competition, people who put him in jail. >> yes. he did not live with the occupants because the system was different. it was a democratic system later on. all the south africans lived in democracy but israel wants to be occupiers and for others to live in its shadow. this is unreasonable. those genuine people for the landowners, we are the owners of this land and we ought to live free on our land and not under other tutelage. >> you believe they will not willingly give up the west bank. that the israelis want to be occupiers.

you will have to take it back. >> these are the statements. their statements. these are the statements of all the leaders of israel. even when they negotiate. what they say, they compromise, they say. we want the jordan valley or they procrastinate. and what does it do? the west bank resembles [indiscernible] in order to avoid reaching the palestinian state because israel thinks the west bank is part and parcel of israel. that is why there is not any solution. >> history shows that israel withdrew from southern lebanon and from gaza and there is no reason to believe they will not withdraw from the west bank. >> this is true but we ought to draw lessons.

they withdrew under military pressureand under after the second intifada. war, the 1973 war emma -- they withdrew from sinai. israel believes in the language of power. when they are compelled to do so they with draw. i have two models here. it followed in 1956 after the aggression, after the american administration compelled the and -- compelled it and because of the military pressure as well. >> the killing will continue in

gaza. >> we hope it will not continue one single moment. who wishes for his people to be killed? israel is more powerful than us. they kill every day 120 civilians. we kill militants who enter gaza. we do not wish for the killing to continue. we wish for our people to live without occupation and for the siege to be lifted. this is a humanitarian right for all the people, the world to believe in this area and >> do you hope israel survives as a -- to believe in this. >> do you hope israel survives as a state? >> i do not want to have my own conjecture. the [indiscernible]

and other pundits are aware that israel is a fragile state, it resorts to occupation and aggression. it services the west and they are looters, they steal our land and they are occupants. they suffer from anxiety. the occupation has no future. western politics out to be reformed. i do understand, i do know that you are a superpower. you are civilized people and we do not have any problem with the u.s. or the american people. we have the problem with this war and policy and the bias vis-à-vis israel. arabs and muslims want to live with all the people. they want to coexist with others

to our mutual interests but we do not want for the west to support israel. >> let me ask this because of who you are. there is a war going on in iraq. what do you make of isis and what they're trying to do? in iraq? >> who had paved the way for such security as an -- sectarianism to flare up in iraq? they destroyed the iraq i government. they did not topple saddam hussein they say but they destroyed the iraqi army. the institutions and i hope that in our land in afghanistan and iraq and syria that peace will be reached and i hope for the arabs to pull their own strings

without intervention from the rest of the world. i hope she is and sunnis can coexist with each other. the american foreign-policy led to these hundred actions and -- contradictions and they might be happy because this would turn [indiscernible] >> do you think that isis will be able to create a caliphate? >> this is a different subject and you know that muslims -- it does not appeal to them but as i said you can see such ideas. we believe it -- believe in the moderation of islam. we are not in the mentalist. -- not fanatics, we are not fundamentalists. we do not fight the jews because they are jews and we do not fight any other races, we fight the occupiers.

we respect the religious people. we ask for tolerance. the jews, the christians, the muslims, god created them as nations. we are different. the koran says in order for the nations to live together and without occupation and blockade. >> you believe in the coexistence of peoples and you believe in the coexistence of palestinians and israelis in the middle east. >> i cannot coexist with occupation. >> without occupation you can coexist. >> i am ready to coexist with the jews, christians, arabs and non-arabs and those who agree with my ideas and those who disagree with them. i do not coexist with the

occupiers, with the settlers, and -- >> it is one thing to say you want to coexist with jews and another to coexist with israel. do you want to coexist with the state of israel? do you want to recognize israel as a jewish state? >> no. i do not want to live with a state of occupiers. i coexist with other religions. >> if they are not occupiers, at that point do you want to coexist and recognize their right to exist as they would recognize your right to exist? >> but we have the palestinian state than the palestinian state will decide on its policies. you cannot actually ask me about the future. i answered you but the palestinian people can have their say when they have their

own state without the stipulation they can decide policy vis-à-vis others. >> thank you. ♪

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