rex this is charlie rose. infocused tonight is on war the middle east. the conflict between israel and hamas continues after a brief

humanitarian truce unraveled on saturday. the death toll on the palestinian side has risen to over 1000. over 50 israeli soldiers have lost their lives. president obama called benjamin and not to -- netanyahu urges cease-fire. early monday the un security council echoed the call. peace remains elusive. israel surprised by the strength of the rocket arsenal and the reach of its tunnel network wants to neutralize the threat. peace negotiations are complicated because neither the u.s. nor israel deal direct with hamas. traveled to doha where the political leader of hamas lives in exile. i sat down for an hour long conversation with him on saturday. rex thank you for allowing us to come to your home for

conversation especially this week. askedary john kerry had for a week of cease-fire so the parties could negotiate. why did that not happened? exert efforts and he came to the region and we do --reciate his efforts that westop the love letting and received the ideas of john kerry and the proposal. we didn't see within the circuit of leadership to stop the israeli aggression and lift the siege and to meet the demands of the palestinian people. the israeli cabinet refused the proposal and they are to be held

responsible. failed the nine-month negotiation that he pulled the strings between the palestinians and the israelis. >> many people will say the israeli aggression would not have happened if rockets from gaza had not rained down on israel. >> who did start this episode, you do understand that the evidence to place in the west inc.. some teenagers were unaccounted for in the west bank. rain in thed not settlers and the pratt this there heinous crimes. burned someone alive. they started the aggression on pondsnd the rockets are

for this aggression. >> when you look at those israeli teenagers who were -- does, 70 hamas thing to do with it? >> from the start i did declare and announce that we did not know who carried out such an operation. perpetrators. the they accuse thomas. these settlers are located on the west take. ill eagle and the presence of the settlors is illegal. contrary the word -- he was earned alive. >> prime minister netanyahu called his parents with great apology and grief for the death

of that young man. you have not called the parents of the israeli teenagers who were killed. you said i cannot condemn the killing of settlers. >> there are two distinctions here. the first is as follows. those who earned him alive, they were settlers and they were , the israeli authority knows them. when it comes to the teenagers no one knew who killed them. the other distinction is as follows. he lives in his country. the settlers do live on illegal land. the settlersd, carry weapons and they killed the palestinians and they run over woman and children. they sold the land and agriculture. illegal andnts are

the settlers are illegal. their presence is illegal. >> do you think the killing will begin anew after the cease-fire is to mark -- cease-fire? responsible for killing our people, 900 martyrs and 5000 is6000 casualties, netanyahu a responsible person. messages to the world. it is high time to lift the siege. gaza wants to live. >> that is what secretary asked to be negotiated to have a week of cease-fire so you could do dot you're asking them to that as a precondition to negotiations. prerequisite. a

life is a right for our people in palestine. since 2006, if you refuse the outcomes of our election our people lived under the siege for eight years. this is a collective punishment. we have to have an airport. this is the first message. in order to stop the bloodletting we have to look at the underlying causes and the occupation. netanyahu does not take heed of our rights. john kerry tried to find a window to meet our target. killed our dream and he killed the american initiative. >> the egyptians had a cease-fire proposal which the israelis accept it and you did not. not agree for two

reasons. the first reason because this initiative does not lift the siege. andtarts with a cease-fire subject us to negotiations that we do not know the outcome. is as follows. the egyptians did not offer dialogue with the factions in gaza. in the past we managed with the egyptians a number of maneuvers. .e have reached a truce the method was wrong. that is why it has failed. >> here is what many people believe. that regardless before the israeli rockets came there were hamas rockets. >> this is an account.

>> this is in the israeli towns and this is why he wanted to revenge. he started this episode and we retaliated. we do not like to watch -- launch rockets and target people. if you look at the martyrs, most of them are civilians. on the other side a are militants, combatants. this is emblematic of the resistance and the morality of the israeli aggression. >> it is not just israelis who are saying this. this is former president bill clinton. hamas was aware of what happened when they started raining

rockets. they fired 1000 and they have a strategy designed to force israel to kill their own civilians so the rest of the world will condemn them. clinton, notdent an israeli. a man who worked hard to create peace between palestinians and israelis. the word -- world does not want to blame the israelis. the rest of the world knows the blame is on the side of the israelis. work thismes to the did not take lace on the side of the palestinians. if you can imagine the following scenario. , thenhe siege is listed

when we have a window to stop stuff theetting and security forces, why do you all for security for israel and why do you call for lifting the siege on the palestinians, why do you give the right to live for the palestinians? this is the largest occupation in the world. drexler is what secretary kerry for praying and trying to do, to engage israel and hamas through turkey and qatar to deal with the issues of the border crossings, deal with the issue of fishing rights and the porch and the issue of the condition of the way in gaza but you have to do that through negotiations. that is what the secretary is trying to do but missiles are flying back and forth.

of the americans is an correct. us [indiscernible] and the palestinians. israelis -- the palestinians subject to lack mailing. they had nine months of negotiations and the outcome was zero. we will be delving into negotiations. rights and as a superpower they can come held call uponis and i do

not only toration , they need to diagnose the disease and they need to on ther state emerge borders of 1967. >> not 1948. 1960 -- 1967 borders. >> this is the program. >> the problem is? is the siege, the occupation. occupationstop the and stop the siege and then we can have security and peace in the region. >> president obama said another expectsaid no nation can not to respond when rockets have

been rained down on top of them and the argument is it would not have happened if you had not sent those rockets in the beginning. beyond that.his what is your short-term goal and your long-term goal? all -- those who started shooting is not gaza. it is not gaza. -- gave thewere aggression. it is mr. obama who was stupefied or surprised by such action. the question is as follows. do you expect anyone not to respond if he is attacked in his why obama ando the leaders of the free world, [inaudible]ey

hope,t having a window of would it be possible for us to live time and time again under occupation. human beings got to -- ought to determine themselves. are under siege we have to defend ourselves. are 600,000 settlers and netanyahu stops every single effort to reach peace. the word is to always expect an explosion. what do i want? peace without occupation, without settlement, andhout judy's nation --

live in palestine. their settlers out and took their military out and said here is gaza, make it four-ish. we are taking the settlers out. even american businessman gives the money. opportunity to take advantage of that? sooner than later you begin using that as a military place to rain rockets. israel withdrew and they expelled the settlers. however it started with aggression. you can ask the egyptians who were the sponsors of initiatives who did violate the initiative.

israel time and time again violates this. rew --ll -- israel with withdrew. force.e an occupation away from the aggression of israel. if gaza lives without occupation, without aggression, without blockade, without crossings.the one nation. we want to live without occupation. >> do you want to live in coexistence with israel? withdo not coexist settlers. with

west withdraws from the bank, 67 borders. is that the beginning of us to -- of a two state solution that ill ring finally -- >> up to this moment they did not give us any indication they will withdraw from the west bank. if you look at their leaders' statements -- they have committed itself to withdrawal bank.he west will reach peace. to -- not toledge eradicate israel? rex do you think that palestinians who suffer occupation and settlement can

eradicate israel? this is propaganda. we need to live in peace on our land. >> i do not think you can but there needs to be a justice for palestinians, up -- a territory for palestinians. people worry the idea of a two state solution is slipping away. >> yes. is that the two state solution is slipping away. it are theilled leaders of israel. to all theback administrations and the leaders, tried, i readem

that -- the memoirs of carter. he knew what was going on. those who kill the political past is israel. i can say that on air. livealestinians want to free in an independent state. we have two parts. the first one is the peaceful one. for the rest of the world to pressurize israel or to compel it to withdraw. failed, then we have to resist, we have to defend ourselves. >> rather than saying we cannot eradicate israel why don't you say we do not want to eradicate israel, we want to live side-by-side having a full state for us and our people, why can't you see that?

>> what does it mean when hamas agrees with fatah and all the factions in the unity government has said our national goal, we have joined forces to reach it is to have a state on the 1967, that jerusalem is the capital and the return of the citizens question mark that means that palestinians have agreed. negotiated with arafat and poisoned him. peacee killing the trusses. no one can blame the palestinian's. the arabs had their initiative in beirut. do, what did the administration do, they provided -- [indiscernible]

to reach but those who killed it was israel. she says she wants to be but it one security. it wants to -- the land. is what hasreflect been said, the problem here in the and is palestinians do not trust the israelis and the israelis do not trust the palestinians. the problem.hat is how do you get beyond that? how do you create trust? >> you think that the key for the solution is trust. we are enemies. they are the occupiers, we are enemies. the solutions do not start with trust. the solution starts with the international community's volition to say to israel stop to my enough is enough. israel. it to compel

how can i trust my enemy? we have had a number of negotiations in the field. >> you think that israel acts the behest of the united states? >> the capacity of the american administration to pressure israel has nothing to do with israel listening to america. it emanates from the fact that it is a superpower. it is responsible. why did america come to her rack and why did it fix -- expel saddam hussein from kuwait? any nation that supersedes the twolines is a superpower or -- to compel the other to meet their standards. 1950's putin the pressure on israel after the war

of 1956 to move away from sinai. but now they do not want to exercise their responsibility. begin answer that were able to form an agreement at camp david. the israelis give back territory in the egyptians signed peace agreement. begin withdrew. they withdrew from jerusalem and the west bank which was occupied . for the an overture syrians and they had an agreement with the egyptians. why israel is keeping [indiscernible]

>> it was -- they were open to

an agreement with the palestinian authority and mr. abbas. is that unity working today? what role does mr. abbas play in all of this? they were successful. [indiscernible] tohallenge any government manage 1.8 million people in our circumstances. we havesuccessful but been short.

the unity was to do with our rights. wanted for the unit sheet government. israel prevented it from sending the money. the gazans said enough is enough. it is an open air jail. 50,000 along with their families were deprived from the money from the settlement. that is why the turned into a

time ticking bomb that blew in the face of israel. this is an outrage. these you kill us for netanyahu locks the age. why we do not have an airport, why are youu ask us surprised because of our resistance? what comes to him as our partner is our partner in reconciliation. >> you accept his leadership to negotiate with the israelis through secretary kerry and he can speak for hamas and hamas s his principles and values and is negotiating

stance. abbas is our partner in authority and conciliation. when it comes to negotiations there are no negotiations anymore. netanyahu has trampled on it. he turned away every single choice. hamas has talked about the management of the political decision. nine months ago he went unilaterally, he did not consult the other factions. we as palestinians are ready to participate in reaching the difficult decision but it has to be and to civilized. it has to be linked to our people. the coalition of our people whether it was mum would've loss or others. or others.abbas

pinning their hopes on negotiations is incorrect. how could you negotiate a person who denies your pride. negotiate? our negotiations are failing because israel has the upper hand in the do not take heed of what we say. >> they insist they must have defense or says on the jordan river. they suggest that they have to -- there have to be restrictions on the sovereignty of a palestinian state. all of and is unacceptable to you to mr. abbas and anybody who represents the palestinian viewpoint.

side they arer not taking heed of the palestinian issues. when it comes to the solution to why the palestinian state -- the state ought to be why it out to be demilitarized and sovereign. a lie and you cannot transgress me. i have the right to live in a sovereign country and have a militarized state. who accepts a state without arms to be subject to the aggression

of others? i cannot accept any tutelage of any other entity. but if you say you're palestinian and we can give you in a piecemeal fashion, now. veryalestinian people are cultivated. they did struggle. they are civilized. they have plenty of brains. but now we are deprived from freedom, from independence. my message to america and the world which talks about democracy time and time again. .e need to apply the standard >> let me ask you about this. wass also said that hamas out of sight and almost out of mind before this most recent

explosion of violence. you left damascus. it is said that syria's ally iran even though you met with the supreme leader was not supporting you as much as it had. each was not supporting you the way that president morsi was supporting you. -- president sisi has a different attitude. is that a fair observation of where hamas is today? >> the one to read us as you explained. you.l leave it to you can think that we are in a difficult position. fight the occupants.

againstd was surprised our resistance against the israeli army. this is that hamas' power has nothing to do with the regional circumstances. it emanates from its sticking to its people. represents the palestinian people's need and aspirations. freedomians long for and independence. they think, says doing well. this is the power of hamas. this will [indiscernible] but it is a sideline impact.

this is the justice of our cause . >> you're saying that the people in gaza who are suffering the most in this understand and support everything that hamas is doing notwithstanding the terrible consequences for civilians and for children? they support you, they believe, they are willing to endure this war because they think that what? sound contradicting. the image might be contradictory but it is the truth. the voices of palestinians, they say that we are suffering indeed he has of the crimes of israel thethe carnage and also homes that were reduced to rubble. they say they do not want to

emerge from the war without bloomberg.com -- [indiscernible] dying slowly and now we're dying quick we. the palestinian people had makeh -- they do not distinctions between slaughter an instant death. they say we are suffering. we insist on lifting the siege. >> there is this issue that comes up between this discussion and i want to go to the negotiations now. representatives, the foreign minister of turkey and the foreign missed -- minister of qatar is meeting with the foreign secretary of the u.s. in paris. tell us what is going on,

what is the secretary of state asking through cutter -- qatar and turkey of you, what does he want of you? thet is to do with [indiscernible] from different countries. they want to think about the reconstruction of gaza and providing assistance. we do appreciate these efforts single thank every country that provides assistance to our people. however this is not enough only. because the cause is not only humanitarian, it is national at sea, political. the other problem is to lift the siege and finish the occupation, them, they told ministers

the we're here. the went to paris and part of to talk in addition reconstruction and providing assistance is to seek a way whereby we can reach an agreement to stop this war and secure lifting the siege and we said to them any agreement that stops the aggression and lifts cooperate.we will and i have cooperated with mediators. even the admission of -- the mission of cary -- john kerry. >> if the sieges ended, i that you mean the borders are open, the port is open, fishing rights, what else? >> these are the fundamental issues in gaza and the west bank as well since june 12.

hundreds andd up thosef the more -- were people who were released. violated the agreement. if these demands were met and the gazans felt the sieges lifted be sure that the war would be stopped. >> there would be no more ?sraeli rockets for you.make the deal >> yes. we have authorized them and we asked them to observe every single effort to leave no ons -- no stone unturned.

[indiscernible] our condition is to meet the demands of our people. stop thesiege and occupation. click some people raise this question. do you have to get approval from the military wing of hamas who are fighting now in gaza question mark do you have to have their approval before you can make a commitment? we are one single of men. the decision has to do with the political leaders. the commit to something. .he military wing will, itself >> if you make a decision the military will follow. >> definitely. we are in an institution.

take a decision. every single person within the there arehether militants or civilians, they will follow. the leaders do not take any step unless it means [indiscernible] palestinian people. click some ask why are you here and not in gaza. if you're the voice of hamas you should be in hamas, and gaza with the people of gaza. that is the place for you. >> this is a reasonable, logical russian. -- ask 6 million -- 2 million people who are in gaza as the diaspora. i am from the west tank.

to live were compelled outside. others toompelling live under occupation. it is natural for me to be but occupation does not allow me to do so. of thousandsreds of palestinians in america and they long to go back to .alestine palestinians long for their home country. that is why we insist to return. >> you cannot get there. >> yes, definitely. to live inled jordan, in kuwait, where i used to be a student and in syria and qatar.

a nomadic kind of journey. it is a daunting journey. that is why it is high time for the occupation to stop. and for the people of palestine to be empowered and for the refugees to come back. >> how do you think this will end? click every single occupation ought to fade. stop.occupation ought to it is difficult. was aa paid plenty but he story is. .- victorious in

lexi recognized and reconciled with the people that he was in competition, people who put him in jail. >> he did not live with the occupants because the system was different. it was a democratic system later on. all the south africans lived in democracy but israel wants to be occupiers and for others to live in its shadow. this is unreasonable. those genuine people for the landowners, we are the owners of this land and we ought to live free on our land and not under -- tutelage.lodz >> you believe they will not willingly give up the west inc.. -- bank. it back.have to take

>> these are the statements. their statements. these are the statements of all the leaders of israel. negotiate.hey what they say, they compromise, they say. we want the jordan valley or they procrastinate. and what does it do? resemblesank [indiscernible] reaching the palestinian state because israel thinks the west bank is part and parcel of israel. that is why there is not any solution. >> history shows that israel withdrew from southern lebanon and from gaza and there is no reason to believe they will not withdraw from the west inc.. -- west bank. but we ought to draw lessons.

when did they withdraw? they withdrew under a cherry pressure -- military pressure. second intifada. from sinai.w compelled to do so they with draw. i have two models here. in 1956 after the aggression, after the american administration compelled the and because of the military pressure as well. >> the killing will continue in gaza. will not continue

one single moment. who wishes for his people to be killed? israel is more powerful than us. they kill every day 120 civilians. -- we killilitants militants who enter gaza. we do not wish for the killing to continue. we wish for our people to live without occupation and for the siege to be lifted. this is a humanitarian right for all the people, the world to believe in this area and >> do you hope israel survives as a state? >> i do not want to have my own conjecture. the [indiscernible] and other pundits are aware that

israel is a fragile state, it to occupation and aggression. it services the west and they ourlooters, they steal are occupants. they suffer from anxiety. the occupation has no future. western politics out to be reformed. understand, i do know that you are a superpower. we do not have any problem with the u.s. or the american people. we have the problem with this war and policy and the bias vis-à-vis israel. some want to live with all the people. othersnt to coexist with

not [indiscernible] for the west to support israel. >> there is a war going on in iraq. isis andou make of what they're trying to do? >> who had paved the way for such security as an -- sectarianism to flare up in iraq? they destroyed the iraq e-government. they did not topple saddam hussein they say but they destroyed the iraqi army. the institutions and i hope that in our land in afghanistan and iraq and syria that peace will for theed and i hope

arabs to pull their own strings without intervention from the --t of the world. this is the american foreign-policy led to these hundred actions and they might be happy because this would turn [indiscernible] >> do you think that isis will be able to create a caliphate? >> this is a different subject muslims -- ithat does not appeal to them but as i you can see such ideas. we believe it -- believe in the moderation of islam. we are not in the mentalist. -- fundamentalists. we do not fight the jews because they are jews and we do not fight any other races, we fight

the occupiers. the religious people. we ask for tolerance. jews, the christians, the muslims, god created them as muslims. the koran says in order for the nations to live together and coexist without quote -- occupation and blockade. >> you believe in the youistence of peoples and believe in the coexistence of palestinians and israelis in the middle east. i cannot coexist with occupation. >> without occupation you can coexist. to coexist with the jews, christians, arabs and non-arabs and those who agree with my ideas and those who

disagree with them. i do not coexist with the occupiers, with the settlers, and -- >> it is one thing to say you want to coexist with jews and another to coexist with israel. do you want to go exist with the state of israel? do you want to recognize israel as a jewish state? >> no. i do not want to live with a state of occupiers. i coexist with other religions. >> if they are not occupiers, at that point do you want to coexist and recognize their right to exist as they would recognize your right to exist? >> but we have the palestinian state than the palestinian state will decide on its policies. you cannot actually ask me about the future. i answered you but the

palestinian people can have their say when they have their own state without the stipulation they can decide policy vis-à-vis others. >> thank you. ♪

>> this is "taking stock" for tuesday, july 29. i am cory johnson, in for pimm fox. a surge in interest in tequila.