�* was have fooled me. prime minister was facing the lunchtime ladies and making speeches at collectors. keir starmer was subtly running up a shirtsleeves at glossy party events with his new brand, his first steps, but whoever is in charge, russia is on the march again in ukraine. we speak to alexei navalny�*s close friend, who was battered and attack himself. he tells me why he will never give up the fight against putin. morning, morning. there's something in the air — it wasn't tony blair's pledge card or ed miliband's "ed stone", remember that? but after rishi sunak�*s five pledges, keir starmer unveiled his six first steps. let's see who's been

paying attention — the defence secretary grant shapps and the man who wants to be labour's health secretary, wes streeting, are both here. if you can, i'm going to do a bit of a test, grant shapps, the pledges? growing the economy reducing debt. bringing down inflation, cutting the inflation and stopping the boats. west meeting? 6500 extra teachers, secure border command, great british energy, and what is the one i have missed? we can show you. laughter he has got his pledge card! i laughter he has not his ledue card! . he has got his pledge card! i have not one he has got his pledge card! i have got one here- _ he has got his pledge card! i have got one here. crackdown - he has got his pledge card! i have got one here. crackdown on - got one here. crackdown on anti-social _ got one here. crackdown on anti-social behaviour. - got one here. crackdown on anti-social behaviour. i - got one here. crackdown on anti-social behaviour. i wasi anti-social behaviour. i was preparing — anti-social behaviour. i was preparing for _ anti-social behaviour. i was preparing for that _ anti-social behaviour. i was preparing for that question | anti-social behaviour. i was . preparing for that question and anti-social behaviour. i was - preparing for that question and i still love — preparing for that question and i still love it. i might as well go home — still love it. i might as well go home now. still love it. i might as well go home nova— still love it. i might as well go home now. ., ., , , , home now. five out of six but they 'ust about

home now. five out of six but they just about got _ home now. five out of six but they just about got through _ home now. five out of six but they just about got through it. - and with us for the whole show, the broadcaster piers morgan, mikaela loach, climate and socialjustice activist, and david ross, a businessman and entrepreneur who has been a tory party donor. welcome to you all. let's start with the news. the sunday telegraph says wes streeting will tell doctors they have to work weekends — we'll ask him about that later. he is working today, as you know. the archbishop of canterbury has told the observer that keir starmer should scrap the two—child limit on benefit payments if elected. the mail on sunday say cuts have left the ministry of defence without enough planes for a planned mass parachute drop to commemorate d—day — handy to have grant shapps here. and ahead of an important official report tomorrow, on the bbc website, there's the story of campaigners who fought for justice for victims of the infected blood scandal — the sad story of su gorman and steve dymond — who did not live to see justice.

there will be lots of coverage on that tomorrow across the bbc. sticking with this week of pledges and platforms. it has been a big political week. and platforms. it has been a big politicalweek. if and platforms. it has been a big political week. if you could add one thing to the pledge cards, mikaela, what would it be? thea;r thing to the pledge cards, mikaela, what would it be?— what would it be? they are not sufficient for _ what would it be? they are not sufficient for what _ what would it be? they are not sufficient for what we - what would it be? they are not sufficient for what we need - what would it be? they are not sufficient for what we need in i what would it be? they are not i sufficient for what we need in the crisis we are seeing. we saw that the archbishop saying that the two child benefit limit is immoral, and 43% of families that have two or more children in this country are living in poverty which is apparent and ridiculous, and scrapping the two child benefit would take 500,000 children out of poverty, and that would also tackle the health crisis and relieve pressure on the nhs and would help all of us. it and relieve pressure on the nhs and would help all of us.— would help all of us. it was here on the show that _ would help all of us. it was here on the show that keir _ would help all of us. it was here on the show that keir starmer - would help all of us. it was here on the show that keir starmer said - the show that keir starmer said he would not go ahead with that and it was officially drop. david, what would you put on there? we have

different interests, business, education and the arts. international competitiveness for our economy and society. in this day and age. _ our economy and society. in this day and age, capital and our economy and society. in this day and age, capitaland human our economy and society. in this day and age, capital and human talent and age, capital and human talent and human— and age, capital and human talent and human resource are all global in where _ and human resource are all global in where they— and human resource are all global in where they can be invested and where people _ where they can be invested and where people can _ where they can be invested and where people can work. we have to, given what _ people can work. we have to, given what is _ people can work. we have to, given what is going on in technology, focus _ what is going on in technology, focus on — what is going on in technology, focus on making the country and economy— focus on making the country and economy internationally competitive. making _ economy internationally competitive. making it _ economy internationally competitive. making it easier to do business. more incentives for investment and work and _ more incentives for investment and work and taking the economy and a positive, _ work and taking the economy and a positive, proactive and international way. positive, proactive and internationalwa . , ., ., international way. piers what would ou ut international way. piers what would you put on. — international way. piers what would you put on. and _ international way. piers what would you put on. and i— international way. piers what would you put on, and i would _ international way. piers what would you put on, and i would not- international way. piers what would you put on, and i would not say - you put on, and i would not say about arsenal winning today. expert; about arsenal winning today. every west ham player. _ about arsenal winning today. every west ham player, should _ about arsenal winning today. every west ham player, should they beat manchester — west ham player, should they beat manchester city _ west ham player, should they beat manchester city should _ west ham player, should they beat manchester city should get - west ham player, should they beat manchester city should get a - west ham player, should they beat manchester city should get a £10 . manchester city should get a £10 million _ manchester city should get a £10 million win— manchester city should get a £10 million win bonus _ manchester city should get a £10 million win bonus from _ manchester city should get a £10 million win bonus from the - manchester city should get a £10 - million win bonus from the taxpayer, that would _ million win bonus from the taxpayer, that would be — million win bonus from the taxpayer, that would be great. _ million win bonus from the taxpayer, that would be great. i—

million win bonus from the taxpayer, that would be great. i would - million win bonus from the taxpayer, that would be great. i would like - million win bonus from the taxpayer, that would be great. i would like to l that would be great. i would like to pledge _ that would be great. i would like to pledge that — that would be great. i would like to pledge that they— that would be great. i would like to pledge that they remember- pledge that they remember their pledges — pledge that they remember their pledges because _ pledge that they remember their pledges because if— pledge that they remember their pledges because if you _ pledge that they remember their pledges because if you can't - pledges because if you can't remember— pledges because if you can't rememberthem, _ pledges because if you can't rememberthem, how- pledges because if you can't - rememberthem, how committed pledges because if you can't - remember them, how committed are pledges because if you can't _ remember them, how committed are you to the _ remember them, how committed are you to the pledges? _ remember them, how committed are you to the pledges? the _ remember them, how committed are you to the pledges? the biggest— remember them, how committed are you to the pledges? the biggest crisis- to the pledges? the biggest crisis facing _ to the pledges? the biggest crisis facing this— to the pledges? the biggest crisis facing this country— to the pledges? the biggest crisis facing this country is _ to the pledges? the biggest crisis facing this country is defence. - to the pledges? the biggest crisis facing this country is defence. i'mi facing this country is defence. i'm interested — facing this country is defence. i'm interested to _ facing this country is defence. i'm interested to see _ facing this country is defence. i'm interested to see what _ facing this country is defence. i'm interested to see what grant - facing this country is defence. i'm . interested to see what grant shapps says about _ interested to see what grant shapps says about this _ interested to see what grant shapps says about this. we _ interested to see what grant shapps says about this. we are _ interested to see what grant shapps says about this. we are facing - interested to see what grant shapps says about this. we are facing a - says about this. we are facing a massive — says about this. we are facing a massive crisis— says about this. we are facing a massive crisis in— says about this. we are facing a massive crisis in many- says about this. we are facing a massive crisis in many differenti massive crisis in many different ways _ massive crisis in many different ways at — massive crisis in many different ways at the _ massive crisis in many different ways at the moment. _ massive crisis in many different ways at the moment. and - massive crisis in many different ways at the moment. and we . massive crisis in many differentl ways at the moment. and we do massive crisis in many different - ways at the moment. and we do not have the _ ways at the moment. and we do not have the defence _ ways at the moment. and we do not have the defence capability - ways at the moment. and we do not have the defence capability to - have the defence capability to defend — have the defence capability to defend ourselves. _ have the defence capability to defend ourselves. i— have the defence capability to defend ourselves. i want - have the defence capability to defend ourselves. i want to l have the defence capability to i defend ourselves. i want to see have the defence capability to - defend ourselves. i want to see is defence _ defend ourselves. i want to see is defence spending _ defend ourselves. i want to see is defence spending significantly- defence spending significantly increased _ defence spending significantly increased. ., , defence spending significantly increased. ., _ , , increased. the government says 2.5%. you see increased. the government says 2.596. you see countries _ increased. the government says 2.596. you see countries like _ increased. the government says 2.596. you see countries like poland - you see countries like poland putting — you see countries like poland putting in _ you see countries like poland putting in more, _ you see countries like poland putting in more, i— you see countries like poland putting in more, i would - you see countries like poland putting in more, i would likel you see countries like poland i putting in more, i would like to you see countries like poland - putting in more, i would like to see up putting in more, i would like to see up to— putting in more, i would like to see up to 35%~ — putting in more, i would like to see up to 35%~ we_ putting in more, i would like to see up to 3.5%. we are _ putting in more, i would like to see up to 3.5%. we are massively - putting in more, i would like to seel up to 3.5%. we are massively under resourced _ up to 3.5%. we are massively under resourced when _ up to 3.5%. we are massively under resourced when it _ up to 3.5%. we are massively under resourced when it comes _ up to 3.5%. we are massively under resourced when it comes to - up to 3.5%. we are massively underl resourced when it comes to defence. we have _ resourced when it comes to defence. we have been— resourced when it comes to defence. we have been having _ resourced when it comes to defence. we have been having a _ resourced when it comes to defence. we have been having a bit _ resourced when it comes to defence. we have been having a bit of- resourced when it comes to defence. we have been having a bit of a - resourced when it comes to defence. we have been having a bit of a thinkl we have been having a bit of a think about what our pledges to you, our viewers should be in an election year since the political parties have been added. —— at it. and seeing as it's all the rage, we had a bit of a think about what our pledges

to you our wonderful viewers could be in an election year. since everyone else wants to share their pledges and their missions — here are three of ours: you can send us an e—mail. email us at kuenssberg@bbc.co.uk or on social use the hashtag #bbclaurak and we'll try and share some of of the converation later. ukraine has been a huge issue and defence has been rising up the political agenda. defence has been rising up the politicalagenda. in defence has been rising up the political agenda. in recent weeks there has been a new push with russian soldiers taking back territory from ukraine, where ukraine had already pushed him out. again president zelensky has been asking western allies for more equipment, more support. let's talk to the defence secretary, grant shapps. good to have you in the studio. russia has seized another village in the kharkiv region in the north—east of ukraine. we spoke to leonid

volkov, alexei navalny�*s former chief of staff and he takes president putin needs to show himself as being stronger than he really is, and the west has been blocked by this. how would you describe this push into kharkiv? i read that interview. he is absolutely right. putin is bluffing this war by putting his entire economy onto a war footing in a way that isn't sustainable for russia over the years he would have to continue it for. it's important that the west does not blink. when you see what has happened in kharkiv, the second biggest city in ukraine, it is because, i'm afraid, the civilised world took their eyes off the balljust civilised world took their eyes off the ball just for civilised world took their eyes off the balljust for a little while, we saw how long it took to get that package through the us congress because of internal politics there, and this is the actual upshot, this is the result of waiting. you and this is the actual upshot, this is the result of waiting.— is the result of waiting. you are blamin: is the result of waiting. you are blaming the _ is the result of waiting. you are blaming the us, _ is the result of waiting. you are blaming the us, then. - is the result of waiting. you are blaming the us, then. i'm not i

blaming the us, then. i'm not blamin: blaming the us, then. i'm not blaming them _ blaming the us, then. i'm not blaming them but _ blaming the us, then. i'm not blaming them but the - blaming the us, then. i'm not blaming them but the internal politics meant that the money did not flow in the way that in the uk were giving consistent amounts of money, then we increased it again, added an extra half a billion so we are giving them 3 billion this year, plus different packages. it is important that support is consistent because if you stop these are the problems you see. at the moment it is some villages on the outskirts of kharkiv, and it is very important that the aid flows to ukraine so that the aid flows to ukraine so that they can push that back, and they will, but it does not get into this mess again. you they will, but it does not get into this mess again.— they will, but it does not get into this mess again. you are pointing at hold-u -s this mess again. you are pointing at hold-ups in — this mess again. you are pointing at hold-ups in america. _ this mess again. you are pointing at hold-ups in america. america - this mess again. you are pointing at hold-ups in america. america and l hold-ups in america. america and elsewhere- _ hold-ups in america. america and elsewhere. we _ hold-ups in america. america and elsewhere. we have _ hold-ups in america. america and elsewhere. we have given - hold-ups in america. america and elsewhere. we have given on - hold-ups in america. america and elsewhere. we have given on a i elsewhere. we have given on a consistent basis and we have been very forward leaning. when i speak to my opposite number 02 president zelensky, they would say that ukraine might not be in this war, had it not been for britain being prepared to be so forward leaning in our supported them. other european

countries could be doing more, and we must not have this stop—start. so the uk has been generous... we must not have this stop-start. so the uk has been generous. .. if- we must not have this stop-start. so the uk has been generous... if you l the uk has been generous... if you no the uk has been generous... if you go around — the uk has been generous... if you go around kyiv. _ the uk has been generous... if you go around kyiv, you _ the uk has been generous. .. if you go around kyiv, you will— the uk has been generous... if you go around kyiv, you will see - the uk has been generous... if you go around kyiv, you will see flags l go around kyiv, you will see flags which are half ukraine, half union jack. ~ ., , which are half ukraine, half union jack. . . , . which are half ukraine, half union jack. ~ . , ., , ., jack. we have been a couple of times. jack. we have been a couple of times- as _ jack. we have been a couple of times. as piers _ jack. we have been a couple of times. as piers is _ jack. we have been a couple of times. as piers is suggesting, | jack. we have been a couple of - times. as piers is suggesting, there is more that the uk could do, and some of our viewers think this. julie has been in touch to say why isn't the uk giving ukraine what they need to defeat russia, are we scared of upsetting a bully? is it ok to shoot down a missiles heading 0k to shoot down a missiles heading to israel but not russian ones that are pummelling the life out of ukraine. ., , ., are pummelling the life out of ukraine. . , ., , . ukraine. there was a difference. israel is ukraine. there was a difference. lsrael is a _ ukraine. there was a difference. israel is a democratic _ ukraine. there was a difference. israel is a democratic country . ukraine. there was a difference. | israelis a democratic country but it is not in nato, and notice ukraine, of course. ukraine are in a

waragainst ukraine, of course. ukraine are in a war against russia who trying to undermine nato. we don't want to be in a direct conflict with russia, but we are determined to supply the weapons, the resources, the training, 65,000 ukrainians trained in britain with partnerships from other countries, so we are doing all of that, but we do not intend to go and fight that war. in israel, different circumstances. iran, whose only interest is keeping themselves in power, theology, attacking a democracy, i think everyone thinks it is right to stop those incoming missiles are reaching a democracy in this situation.— this situation. there was a question of principle- — this situation. there was a question of principle- as _ this situation. there was a question of principle. as julie, _ this situation. there was a question of principle. as julie, our _ this situation. there was a question of principle. as julie, our view, - of principle. asjulie, our view, made up that principle, and what president zelensky said in recent days, we have 25% of what we need to defend ukraine, just 25%. isn't there more that the uk and its allies should be doing now? if

everybody was acting in the way that the united kingdom has, ukraine would clearly have a lot more resource. each year, we have increased the amount of money going to ukraine to fight the war in addition to other assistance, probably about £12.5 billion overall, so far. we are providing more gifting, i have outlined below today of weapons that are coming to the end of our usefulness and we are providing them for ukraine, a lot of land weapons, boots and other things, missile defences, and this country has organised internationally the international fund for ukraine to collect money from others to provide for ukraine. my from others to provide for ukraine. my point is that we are the second biggest spender in nato, by far the biggest spender in nato, by far the biggest military spender in europe, asjens stoltenberg the un secretary—general said to me last week. —— nato secretary general. we want others to match what we are

doing and that will help ukraine. there is a question about how they are fighting and how they are allowed to fight. would it be acceptable for ukrainians to use british supplied weaponry, to attack inside russia? we british supplied weaponry, to attack inside russia?— inside russia? we have been very clear with the _ inside russia? we have been very clear with the world _ inside russia? we have been very clear with the world and _ inside russia? we have been very clear with the world and helpful . clear with the world and helpful to ukraine. for example providing permissions for our weapons to be used throughout the whole of ukraine. in used throughout the whole of ukraine. , , ., used throughout the whole of ukraine._ that - used throughout the whole of- ukraine._ that includes ukraine. in russia? that includes crimea which _ ukraine. in russia? that includes crimea which was _ ukraine. in russia? that includes crimea which was taken - ukraine. in russia? that includes crimea which was taken by - ukraine. in russia? that includes crimea which was taken by putin | ukraine. in russia? that includes. crimea which was taken by putin in 2014. we do not get into how we would allow targeting of our weapons to be used outside of that but we provide weapons to ukraine, in order for them to defend their country. before we get onto, should they be used over borders into russia, there is the question of other countries providing those permissions for the weapons to be used in crimea, because that is a very important, the black sea is a very important...

there was a clear request from president zelensky, he believes should not be any ban on how they weapons are used once they are granted. do you as the british defence secretary think it should be “p defence secretary think it should be up to president zelensky to decide how to use those weapons, or up to the country who has provided them? they are in a war. they need to defend their own territory. i get well you're doing here. i cannot go into the specifics of those private conversations about how they weapons are precisely used, i cannot go into detail, but i can be absolutely clear that those weapons can and should add are, in our case, used in the whole of ukraine including crimea. this is very important because the black sea and crimea was uncontested after putin took it in 2014. since the uk involvement and bringing in other countries, france as america, to support us, that is

very much contested. the russian black sea fleet no longer sales in the black sea. that is the first time for probably 250 years that they have not had the freedom of their own navigation there. it is important to let ukraine prosecute this war. i cannot go into specifics about how the weapons may be used because there are sensitive issues. your colleague david cameron, the foreign secretary, has talked about this before, american politicians have spoken about it, why won't you? it is not something i can go into on air, about those targeting decisions. in air, about those targeting decisions.— air, about those targeting decisions. , ., ., decisions. in terms of general levels of defence _ decisions. in terms of general levels of defence spending, . decisions. in terms of general. levels of defence spending, rishi sunak recently said the election of keir starmer would make the country less safe because labour wouldn't commit you matching your pledge of defence spending of 2.5% of the size of the economy but that has only been policy for a couple of weeks. so, was rishi sunak at danger, last

month? i so, was rishi sunak at danger, last month? ., ., so, was rishi sunak at danger, last month? . ., , , . so, was rishi sunak at danger, last month? . . , , . ., so, was rishi sunak at danger, last month? . . ,, . ., ., month? i made a speech at lancaster house in london _ month? i made a speech at lancaster house in london in _ month? i made a speech at lancaster house in london in january _ month? i made a speech at lancaster house in london in january saying - house in london injanuary saying that it house in london injanuary saying thatitis house in london injanuary saying that it is a more dangerous world, i used the phrase, having moved from post—war, to pre—war, and then we work through because these things cannot happen through wishful thinking, you have to say how you will pay for it. the answer is that we would reduce the size of the civil service back to where it was before covid, and use that money to help pay for the increase in defence spending. it help pay for the increase in defence sendina. ., , help pay for the increase in defence sendina. , help pay for the increase in defence shendin, �*, spending. it was boris johnson's oli in spending. it was boris johnson's policy in 2022 — spending. it was boris johnson's policy in 2022 and _ spending. it was boris johnson's policy in 2022 and a _ spending. it was boris johnson's policy in 2022 and a couple - spending. it was boris johnson's policy in 2022 and a couple of i spending. it was boris johnson's - policy in 2022 and a couple of weeks ago rishi sunak accused keir starmer of being a danger to the nation for not committing to the same thing that just a few weeks not committing to the same thing thatjust a few weeks ago, you had not committed to. is it just is itjust electioneering? you have is it 'ust electioneering? you have to is itjust electioneering? you have to start coming — is itjust electioneering? you have to start coming up _ is itjust electioneering? you have to start coming up with _ is itjust electioneering? you have to start coming up with plants - is itjust electioneering? you have to start coming up with plants and if you don't have a route to get that it's wishful thinking to say we want to get there, people will quite

rightly question whether that's likely to be the case. why? because keir starmer leads a party where dozens voted against the nuclear deterrent which he now says he is in favour of. he twice supported a leader who wanted to get us out of nato. , �* , ~ leader who wanted to get us out of nato. , �* , ,, ., , nato. isn't this the kind of things that drives _ nato. isn't this the kind of things that drives our _ nato. isn't this the kind of things that drives our view _ nato. isn't this the kind of things that drives our view is _ nato. isn't this the kind of things that drives our view is round - nato. isn't this the kind of things that drives our view is round the | that drives our view is round the twist? you are accusing labour of being a dangerfor being in exactly the same position that you are in a matter of weeks ago. the difference is i think matter of weeks ago. the difference is i think we — matter of weeks ago. the difference is i think we are _ matter of weeks ago. the difference is i think we are now— matter of weeks ago. the difference is i think we are now getting - is i think we are now getting towards, and we said there will be an election in the second half of the year, we are getting towards the general election in the second half of the year and it's not unreasonable to expect political parties to set up their platform. if they are unable to land it's wishful thinking, we won't swim the size of the civil service as we've said to pay for it, then how are you going to pay for it? those are reasonable questions for us and as the media. the first thing to do is to get us

to 2.5%. we need to do this at a speed where we don'tjust sock in imports in defensive equipment from america and elsewhere, we build our own industrial base and the path we've set to 2.5% allows us to build up we've set to 2.5% allows us to build up our industry to be able to produce that defence equipment and there are about 400,000 people who work in that industry and we want to expand its. i work in that industry and we want to exand its. ., ., , , ., ,, work in that industry and we want to exand its. ., ., ,, .,~ ., expand its. i want to speak about gaza but first _ expand its. i want to speak about gaza but first i _ expand its. i want to speak about gaza but first i want _ expand its. i want to speak about gaza but first i want to _ expand its. i want to speak about gaza but first i want to ask - expand its. i want to speak about gaza but first i want to ask you i gaza but first i want to ask you about a story this morning that the uk right now has only got one plane to send to the d—day commemorations for a parachute display. it’s for a parachute display. it's massively _ for a parachute display. it�*s massively important to commemorate and remember the past otherwise we will end up making the same mistakes in the future. this was only brought to me very recently and i certainly do want to see that properly covered so i've no doubt we will have additional planes there. it is actually the case that the aircraft are being used in operations at the moment, one of the reasons why i had

successfully argued to get 75 billion more in cash terms into our armed forces because i think we do need to be doing more. the armed forces because i think we do need to be doing more.— need to be doing more. the first batch of aid _ need to be doing more. the first batch of aid has _ need to be doing more. the first batch of aid has been _ need to be doing more. the first batch of aid has been delivered i batch of aid has been delivered across a temporary peer off the coast of gaza. we can show our viewers those pictures. we think there are more than a million people in that tiny strip of land without enough food, without enough water, without enough fuel. the world's solution appears to be this floating platform that is shorter than southend pier. do you really think this is going to match up to the scale of the challenge which is potentially famine in for more than a million people? edit potentially famine in for more than a million people?— a million people? of course it isn't and it would _ a million people? of course it isn't and it would be _ a million people? of course it isn't and it would be ridiculous - a million people? of course it isn't and it would be ridiculous to - and it would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. does that mean we shouldn't be doing it? of course we shouldn't be doing it? of course we should be doing it. the uk, without much fanfare, have been delivering aid by sea, air, road and the pier

is another way of getting in aid. we are helping to organise the dispatch of that from cyprus. we have the command and patrol ship in rfa cardigan bay in the mediterranean and we are getting that aid onto the landing gaza. 0f and we are getting that aid onto the landing gaza. of course it's not the only thing we should be doing, it would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise-— would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. ., ., ., ., ., ., otherwise. tomorrow we are going to see the publication _ otherwise. tomorrow we are going to see the publication of _ otherwise. tomorrow we are going to see the publication of the _ otherwise. tomorrow we are going to see the publication of the report - see the publication of the report into the infected blood scandal which affected so many people over such a long time. can you commit to spending the 10 billion on compensation we understand is on the way? i compensation we understand is on the wa ? ~ �* , ., ~ compensation we understand is on the wa ? ~ �* , ., ., ., compensation we understand is on the wa ? ~ �*, ., compensation we understand is on the wa? ~ �*, ., ., way? i think it's taken far too long to net to way? i think it's taken far too long to get to this _ way? i think it's taken far too long to get to this point. _ way? i think it's taken far too long to get to this point. this _ way? i think it's taken far too long to get to this point. this has - way? i think it's taken far too long to get to this point. this has been| to get to this point. this has been going on for decades. i've had constituents, a mother and father who sadly lost their son decades ago. the fact it's taken all this time to get to the truth is heartbreaking. i haven't yet seen the report, the government has a ready said it will want to respond quickly so i know that that's what will happen. flan quickly so i know that that's what will happen-—

will happen. can you confirm the compensation? _ will happen. can you confirm the compensation? are _ will happen. can you confirm the compensation? are in _ will happen. can you confirm the compensation? are in a - will happen. can you confirm the compensation? are in a position| will happen. can you confirm the i compensation? are in a position to talk about it _ compensation? are in a position to talk about it but _ compensation? are in a position to talk about it but i _ compensation? are in a position to talk about it but i do _ compensation? are in a position to talk about it but i do know - compensation? are in a position to talk about it but i do know from - compensation? are in a position to | talk about it but i do know from my own constituents case work it's heartbreaking and it's a system over decades having let down those family. decades having let down those famil . , ., decades having let down those famil. _, ,, decades having let down those famil. ,, ., ,, decades having let down those famil. ,, . ., family. grant shapps, thank you for takin: a family. grant shapps, thank you for taking a range _ family. grant shapps, thank you for taking a range of _ family. grant shapps, thank you for taking a range of questions. - well, the tories want to make defence a factor in the general election — keir starmer wanted to show this week he is well up for the fight. he took his whole team to essex — where, with placards, and a queue of supporters on the platform he announced what he's calling his �*six first steps for government. you heard wes streeting the shadow health secretary canter through them at the top of the show — promises on health, teachers, and a stable economy. they weren't a million miles away from the labour leaders, five missions — the old jargon. but the idea is a user friendly list of promises of what labour would start to do as soon as they move into number ten — if they win.

wes streeting is here and has recovered from his five out of six popular i'm never going to live this down? where was the arsenal solidarity? let's talk about one of the key pledges in your area if you are lucky enough to win and become health secretary you are saying you would deliver 40,000 more evening and weekend appointments per week, 2 million a year and he would do that by paying staff to work overtime. keir starmer said 40,000 operations, some people have said appointments. can we start with exact clarity on what these 40,000 things would be. do you mean hip operations, knee operations, cataract operations, or initialappointments operations, cataract operations, or initial appointments with consultants?— initial appointments with consultants? �*, ., consultants? it's to cut waiting lists. so. _ consultants? it's to cut waiting lists. so, whether— consultants? it's to cut waiting lists. so, whether that's - consultants? it's to cut waiting | lists. so, whether that's people waiting for a diagnostic appointment or those elective procedures that you mentioned, the goal is to cut waiting lists and the reason we know this will work is because it is currently being done in a small

number of hospitals including the london hospital i can see out of my office window in westminster. we want to see this available across the country. we know that that comes with an investment demand, £1.1 billion we've committed directly into the pockets of nhs staff and as with so many of our other approaches to spending, that investment is linked to reform. yes, more money to cut waiting lists, different ways of working so we are using that operating theatre capacity, using that diagnostic capacity, evenings and weekends, in the way that frankly we should already be doing. can you tell us what the mix would be between major procedures like someone getting a new hip or knee knee, orsomebody someone getting a new hip or knee knee, or somebody having that first consultation with a consultant? it to cut the waiting lists so to be clear we are going to discharge the responsibility to the integrated care boards, pooling waiting lists

across regions as well so that we can make best use of facilities and staff, and we are going to trust them. the goal is a 40,000 appointments to cut waiting lists. how they deliver, we are going to trust the front line. so how they deliver, we are going to trust the front line.— trust the front line. so you don't have a specific— trust the front line. so you don't have a specific view... _ trust the front line. so you don't have a specific view... we - trust the front line. so you don't have a specific view... we won't| trust the front line. so you don't i have a specific view... we won't be that prescriptive _ have a specific view... we won't be that prescriptive from _ have a specific view... we won't be that prescriptive from the - have a specific view... we won't be that prescriptive from the centre, i that prescriptive from the centre, we want to trust leaders to do the right thing and they've told us, give us the tools to do the job and we will do it. when keir starmer and i went to one of the leeds hospitals that's taken this approach, one of the things that was so clear was the abundant fried staff who were delivering that service had. because, yes, they are earning extra money themselves, really important in a crust of living crisis, but they are getting waiting lists down and seeing the benefit for patients. one of the challenges put to me is, will staff want to do this? and i think there is the appetite there. no one will be forced to do it but where we give them the tools to do the job, where we give them the tools to do

thejob, nhs staff where we give them the tools to do the job, nhs staff tell us they are up the job, nhs staff tell us they are up for the challenge stop what you mention to the hospital in leeds where this is happening already. but that trust also has a deficit of 100 million. and trust in leeds is having to make cuts already. that's happening in quite a lot of places in the nhs. there is another hospital in essex where they are looking at cutting clinical roles. if you become health secretary, would you tell trusts not to get rid of doctors and nurses? 0f would you tell trusts not to get rid of doctors and nurses? of course we don't want to see that and you underline just how big the challenges going to be if we win the next election. the nhs isn'tjust on its knees, it's on its face. that's why in terms of the approach i've set up, first i've been incredibly candid about the state of the nhs, no dewy eyed nostalgia and harking back to the past and resting on our laurels but to be honest about the state of the nhs today. secondly, making it clear that labour will invest in the nhs but also it needs reform to make sure it works more

effectively because just this week we saw a pretty damning report on nhs productivity. this government spends money on the wrong places with worse outcomes and that's got to change. with worse outcomes and that's got to chance. .,, with worse outcomes and that's got to chance. , . , , with worse outcomes and that's got to chance. , ., , to change. those principles you believe in _ to change. those principles you believe in but _ to change. those principles you believe in but there _ to change. those principles you believe in but there are - to change. those principles you believe in but there are already| believe in but there are already trusts having to get rid of staff. if you are saying you're put money in the central increase the number of appointments here, which also said to trusts, stop getting rid of staff and if so would give them more money so they don't have to get rid of stuff? edit money so they don't have to get rid of stuff? . ., , money so they don't have to get rid of stuff? _, , ., �* ., ., of stuff? of course we don't want to see them getting — of stuff? of course we don't want to see them getting rid _ of stuff? of course we don't want to see them getting rid of _ of stuff? of course we don't want to see them getting rid of nhs - of stuff? of course we don't want to see them getting rid of nhs staff. l see them getting rid of nhs staff. we have to work together to make sure we are not being penny wise and pound foolish. this is why we need a serious ten year plan for the modernisation of the nhs and we don't go through these repetitive cycles of year after year, crisis after crisis. i'm afraid that's where we are after 14 years of the conservatives. i can't promise to come in and waive a labour magic wand on day one and all the problems

go away but what i can promise is that we've got the right focus on investment and reform to do what the last labour government did which was the shortest waiting times... mould the shortest waiting times... would ou tell the shortest waiting times... would you tell trusts _ the shortest waiting times... would you tell trusts and _ the shortest waiting times... would you tell trusts and tell _ the shortest waiting times... would you tell trusts and tell viewers - the shortest waiting times... would you tell trusts and tell viewers you i you tell trusts and tell viewers you would tell hospitals to say, do not get rid of clinical stuff? edit would tell hospitals to say, do not get rid of clinical stuff?— get rid of clinical stuff? of course they shouldn't — get rid of clinical stuff? of course they shouldn't be _ get rid of clinical stuff? of course they shouldn't be getting - get rid of clinical stuff? of course they shouldn't be getting rid - get rid of clinical stuff? of course they shouldn't be getting rid of. they shouldn't be getting rid of them and we'll have to together to deal with the challenge being inflicted on the nhs by 14 years of catastrophic conservative government.— catastrophic conservative covernment. ., ., , government. right now hospitals around the _ government. right now hospitals around the country _ government. right now hospitals around the country are _ government. right now hospitals around the country are being - government. right now hospitals| around the country are being told they have to focus on their deficits, they have to focus on getting costs down. would you reverse that? we getting costs down. would you reverse that?— getting costs down. would you reverse that? ~ ., ., , reverse that? we have to get costs under control _ reverse that? we have to get costs under control in _ reverse that? we have to get costs under control in the _ reverse that? we have to get costs under control in the nhs. - reverse that? we have to get costs under control in the nhs. we - reverse that? we have to get costs under control in the nhs. we don't want to see cuts to clinical roles on the front line. we are going to have to work seriously together to get the nhs from where it is today, at worst crisis in its history, to where we want it to be which is delivering the same kind of standards of care under the last labour government when we delivered the shortest waiting times and the

highest patient satisfaction ever. 0ne highest patient satisfaction ever. one of the things the labour government did in that era was use a lot of private sector. you've previously indicated you are open to that but how much would you use the private sector and how much would you spend on the private sector? we want you spend on the private sector? - want to use the spare capacity that exists. the private sector tell us they can do more and we want to work with them to put together a serious plan that gives them some stability and certainty over the medium term about what they can deliver at what cost. i'm determined to make sure we get both the reassurance we need on patient safety but also value for taxpayers' money so we'll have to work in partnership. figs taxpayers' money so we'll have to work in partnership.— taxpayers' money so we'll have to work in partnership. as things stand ou don't work in partnership. as things stand you don't have... _ work in partnership. as things stand you don't have... we _ work in partnership. as things stand you don't have... we are _ work in partnership. as things stand you don't have... we are talking - you don't have... we are talking ready and _ you don't have... we are talking ready and part _ you don't have... we are talking ready and part of _ you don't have... we are talking ready and part of this _ you don't have... we are talking ready and part of this is - you don't have... we are talking ready and part of this is about i ready and part of this is about negotiating in government so there is only a degree to which we can do this in opposition but we are thinking creatively too. just today we are announcing a partnership with nuffield health to deliver 4000

appointments for nhs staff through theirjoint pain programme. we know that that's one of the reasons nhs staff are off sick and they are stuck on nhs waiting lists like everyone else. those are the sorts of partnerships we want to see and that's something we've agreed in opposition. we would hit the ground running on day one of a labour government. it's going to take time to turn around the nhs but we are determined to work together, public sector, private sector, to get the nhs back to where we want it to be. doesn't that get you into a weird situation where the taxpayer would be paying a private company to give nhs staff free treatment? this be paying a private company to give nhs staff free treatment?— nhs staff free treatment? this is art of nhs staff free treatment? this is part of nuffield _ nhs staff free treatment? this is part of nuffield health's - nhs staff free treatment? this is | part of nuffield health's charitable objective. so, there is no cost to the nhs or the taxpayer. working with the private sector to bring down nhs waiting lists obviously is a contractual arrangement and we've got to make sure we get good value for the taxpayer but let's take a step back and also recognise against the backdrop of low growth,

rocketing bills for families, the backdrop of low growth, rocketing bills forfamilies, one of the ways in which we get the economy growing again is to restore the health of the nation because the health of the nation because the health of the nation because the health of the nation and the health of the economy on a inextricably linked and with almost 8 million people on nhs waiting lists, not only is that awful for them but sets back the economy because if people are off work they aren't able to contribute to the is devolved, decisions taken in westminster have an impact on the nhs across the whole country. so, i ask people when they go to vote in

the uk general election to look back on labour's proud record of delivering the shortest waiting times and highest patient satisfaction ever. i'm convinced a labour government when just deliver for the nhs in england but will create a rising tide that lifts all ships across the uk. labour is happy to criticise the snp health record in scotland but when it comes to westminster you are saying that it is all labour power. as well as investing in reform and modernisation, that benefits the nhs across the whole of united kingdom. are you proud of labour's record

i'm not sure that the snp would actually say that, we will talk to them. i actually say that, we will talk to them. ., ~ actually say that, we will talk to them. ., ,, ., ., ., them. i will talk to all of the health ministers _ them. i will talk to all of the health ministers across - them. i will talk to all of the health ministers across the l them. i will talk to all of the i health ministers across the uk them. i will talk to all of the - health ministers across the uk a fine health secretary. i'm convinced we will create a rising tide lifts all ships and the nhs will be better in wales, scotland and northern ireland, notjust in england, if we have a labour government in westminster.— have a labour government in westminster. . , ., ., westminster. the infected blood in . ui is westminster. the infected blood inquiry is coming _ westminster. the infected blood inquiry is coming tomorrow. - westminster. the infected blood inquiry is coming tomorrow. if i westminster. the infected bloodi inquiry is coming tomorrow. if the report comes out, and the government says, we are going to spend £10 billion in compensation which is

what we expect, would you match that? i what we expect, would you match that? , . ~ what we expect, would you match that? , w , ,, , that? i picked up the sunday times toda with that? i picked up the sunday times today with a — that? i picked up the sunday times today with a huge _ that? i picked up the sunday times today with a huge sigh _ that? i picked up the sunday times today with a huge sigh of _ that? i picked up the sunday times today with a huge sigh of relief. - that? i picked up the sunday times today with a huge sigh of relief. it i today with a huge sigh of relief. it looks like the government is going to do the right thing. they will have our wholehearted support in that. we will make sure victims have the certainty of knowing that if there is a change of government later this year a labour government will honour that commitment. if jeremy hunt only does one thing before the general election as chancellor, let it be justice for the victims of the scandal. every four days, another victim dies without justice. four days, another victim dies withoutjustice. and justice has been delayed for far too long. i suspect all parties are going to have to take some pretty heavy criticism on the chin, when the report is announced tomorrow and we will take that criticism on the chin. even more importantly, in this election year, when we are slugging it out for who governs britain, i hope that we can see that rare moment of consensus in our politics,

to put this situation right, and to deliver the justice victims deserve. we will see what happens tomorrow but it might be one of those rare moments of unity in westminster, they do not come along very often. i want to ask aboutjeremy corbyn, your party's former leader at the register of interests where mps declare their money, has shown he received £5,000 from a group called we deserve better, which is campaigning against labour in some seats. viewers will rememberjeremy corbyn is not sitting as a labour mp at the moment but is still a labour party member. do you think upset him a donation like that, supporting other socialist candidates, is acceptable for a labour party member? i acceptable for a labour party member?— acceptable for a labour party member? ., �* ~ , ., member? i don't think it is older what jeremy _ member? i don't think it is older what jeremy corbyn _ member? i don't think it is older what jeremy corbyn does - member? i don't think it is older what jeremy corbyn does is - member? i don't think it is older what jeremy corbyn does is no i whatjeremy corbyn does is no concern to me, he will not be a labour candidate at the next election, he will not be in parliament after the next general election, and we have turned the

page on that total failure in our history. page on that total failure in our histo . ., , ., , history. lots of people in your -a history. lots of people in your party still _ history. lots of people in your party still care _ history. lots of people in your party still care about - history. lots of people in your party still care about him, - history. lots of people in your. party still care about him, should he be expelled from the party if he is working with this other campaign group? it is working with this other campaign arou - ? , ., is working with this other campaign u-rou? , ., group? it will be for the labour party disciplinary _ group? it will be for the labour party disciplinary system - group? it will be for the labour party disciplinary system to - group? it will be for the labour| party disciplinary system to see group? it will be for the labour i party disciplinary system to see if he had broken rules but when keir starmer said he would change the labour party was serious, and meant it, and the party is in a much better position now than in 2019 because we have understood why the public rejected us in such huge numbers, change the labour party so that we can be in a position to change our country and i hope when the general election comes later this year that voters give change a chance, and choose change, by voting labour. ~ , ,, ., ,, labour. wes streeting, thank you, from ou labour. wes streeting, thank you, from you and _ labour. wes streeting, thank you, from you and grant _ labour. wes streeting, thank you, from you and grant shapps, - labour. wes streeting, thank you, i from you and grant shapps, although the election maybe six months off, it feels like it is already here. thank you, wes streeting forjoining us in the studio. let's see what the panel have to say about those two interviews this morning.

presenter—2—macro, you do politics in a very different way, you describe yourself as an activist, —— mikaela. i describe yourself as an activist, -- mikaela. ~ , describe yourself as an activist, -- mikaela. ~' , ., describe yourself as an activist, -- mikaela. ~' , . ., ., . mikaela. i think they are good at avoidin: mikaela. i think they are good at avoiding directly _ mikaela. i think they are good at avoiding directly answering - avoiding directly answering questions and making things indifferent than they actually are. i was a medical student. i thought the way to create change best in this, because if you're good at science at school that is what they tell you to do and when i was on the wards, i noticed that lots of people were sick, notjust because of arbitrary things, but because of the social conditions they were living in, their housing, because of poverty and people would be coming in at being sick because of the social reasons, and we would do the importantjob of making sure they could survive for longer, giving the medication, but then sending them back to the conditions that made them sick and they will come back in them sick and they will come back in the similar issues months later. so

what wes streeting and labour are saying about how we should tackle nhs waiting lists, is to use the use private capacity that doesn't exist because it is nhs doctors that are being used, is an inadequate response, we are a sick nation and to stop people getting sick in the first place, the way that we do that is to build a robust social care system and stop continuing policies that are pushing people into sickness, like the child benefit limit, and we are not running back these policies that are punishing people for being poor. piers morgan, ou wanted people for being poor. piers morgan, you wanted to _ people for being poor. piers morgan, you wanted to hear _ people for being poor. piers morgan, you wanted to hear more _ people for being poor. piers morgan, you wanted to hear more from - people for being poor. piers morgan, you wanted to hear more from grant| you wanted to hear more from grant shapps about the fence. iie you wanted to hear more from grant shapps about the fence.— you wanted to hear more from grant shapps about the fence. he sees the need to spend _ shapps about the fence. he sees the need to spend more _ shapps about the fence. he sees the need to spend more than _ shapps about the fence. he sees the need to spend more than the - shapps about the fence. he sees the need to spend more than the 2.596 i need to spend more than the 2.5% pledge _ need to spend more than the 2.5% pledge and the reason is clear. earlier— pledge and the reason is clear. earlier this week, the meeting between — earlier this week, the meeting between putin, and president xi of china, _ between putin, and president xi of china, coupled with iran, and our tentacle — china, coupled with iran, and our tentacle spreading with the collusion of the two of them, this is a dangerous threat to the west. if is a dangerous threat to the west. if you _ is a dangerous threat to the west. if you want — is a dangerous threat to the west. if you want to know about the impact

of these _ if you want to know about the impact of these pledges, imagine we had a situation _ of these pledges, imagine we had a situation ukraine has, none of these pledges _ situation ukraine has, none of these pledges matter if you cannot actually _ pledges matter if you cannot actually defend your country at the ukrainian — actually defend your country at the ukrainian economy has been decimated, there are people decimated, there are people decimated, we have a duty to defend them but _ decimated, we have a duty to defend them but also to defend ourselves and i_ them but also to defend ourselves and i hope — them but also to defend ourselves and i hope that both parties will commit — and i hope that both parties will commit properly to defence. my brother— commit properly to defence. my brother was a british army colonel, my mother—in—law, a british army colonel, _ my mother—in—law, a british army colonel, extremely concerned about the state _ colonel, extremely concerned about the state of the armed forces and they don't— the state of the armed forces and they don't think that we are ready to defend — they don't think that we are ready to defend ourselves. 0n the nhs, when _ to defend ourselves. 0n the nhs, when you — to defend ourselves. 0n the nhs, when you have a personal experience of it, _ when you have a personal experience of it. it _ when you have a personal experience of it, it brings to you the terrible state _ of it, it brings to you the terrible state that — of it, it brings to you the terrible state that it is in. it is not a reflection _ state that it is in. it is not a reflection on the staff back on the institution. my mother had a heart attack— institution. my mother had a heart attack six — institution. my mother had a heart attack six months ago. she was diagnosed at one hospital in sussex, then went _ diagnosed at one hospital in sussex, then went in an ambulance down to one of— then went in an ambulance down to one of the — then went in an ambulance down to one of the major hospitals in sussex and from _ one of the major hospitals in sussex and from midnight until 7am she was kept on _ and from midnight until 7am she was kept on a _ and from midnight until 7am she was kept on a trolley in a&e in a corridor, _ kept on a trolley in a&e in a corridor, and there were 40 other

people _ corridor, and there were 40 other people lying on these beds out in a corridor~ _ people lying on these beds out in a corridor. and when i talked about this to _ corridor. and when i talked about this to rishi sunak, interviewed him, _ this to rishi sunak, interviewed him. the — this to rishi sunak, interviewed him, the reaction i got from people around _ him, the reaction i got from people around the — him, the reaction i got from people around the country with similar stories. — around the country with similar stories, the a&e units are war zones, _ stories, the a&e units are war zones, so _ stories, the a&e units are war zones, so i _ stories, the a&e units are war zones, so i want to see a pledge not 'ust zones, so i want to see a pledge not just about _ zones, so i want to see a pledge not just about waiting lists, but if you absolutely need the health system, is it going _ absolutely need the health system, is it going to be there for you, and who we _ is it going to be there for you, and who we give — is it going to be there for you, and who we give people dignity in these situations? once my mother—in—law -ot situations? once my mother—in—law got to— situations? once my mother—in—law got to the _ situations? once my mother—in—law got to the -- — situations? once my mother—in—law got to the —— mother got to the cardiac— got to the —— mother got to the cardiac unit, she got amazing treatment, but before that she could have died _ treatment, but before that she could have died on a trolley in a&e, and that is— have died on a trolley in a&e, and that is not— have died on a trolley in a&e, and that is not acceptable. you have died on a trolley in me, and that is not acceptable.— that is not acceptable. you were a friend of boris _ that is not acceptable. you were a friend of boris johnson, _ that is not acceptable. you were a friend of boris johnson, david, - that is not acceptable. you were a | friend of boris johnson, david, and friend of borisjohnson, david, and you friend of borisjohnson, david, and wu pay friend of borisjohnson, david, and you pay for his caribbean holiday, are you happy to still keep pointing them in a general election when as we have heard, we know from the opinion polls and local elections that the tories are in the doldrums. i am fundamentally a conservative supporter — i am fundamentally a conservative supporter and _ i am fundamentally a conservative supporter and voter— i am fundamentally a conservative supporter and voter and _ i am fundamentally a conservative supporter and voter and that - i am fundamentally a conservative supporter and voter and that is - i am fundamentally a conservative supporter and voter and that is inl supporter and voter and that is in my blood —

supporter and voter and that is in my blood and _ supporter and voter and that is in my blood and that _ supporter and voter and that is in my blood and that will _ supporter and voter and that is in my blood and that will continue. i supporter and voter and that is ini my blood and that will continue. i accept _ my blood and that will continue. i accept and — my blood and that will continue. i accept and acknowledge - my blood and that will continue. i accept and acknowledge that - accept and acknowledge that the economy— accept and acknowledge that the economy and _ accept and acknowledge that the economy and the _ accept and acknowledge that the economy and the country- accept and acknowledge that the economy and the country has - accept and acknowledge that the | economy and the country has had accept and acknowledge that the - economy and the country has had some very challenging — economy and the country has had some very challenging times. _ economy and the country has had some very challenging times. i _ economy and the country has had some very challenging times. i do _ economy and the country has had some very challenging times. i do think- very challenging times. i do think that if— very challenging times. i do think that if you — very challenging times. i do think that if you look _ very challenging times. i do think that if you look at _ very challenging times. i do think that if you look at rishi _ very challenging times. i do think that if you look at rishi sunak's i that if you look at rishi sunak's pledges — that if you look at rishi sunak's pledges and _ that if you look at rishi sunak's pledges and where _ that if you look at rishi sunak's pledges and where he - that if you look at rishi sunak's pledges and where he is - that if you look at rishi sunak'sl pledges and where he is against those _ pledges and where he is against those on — pledges and where he is against those on the _ pledges and where he is against those on the economy— pledges and where he is against those on the economy and - pledges and where he is against those on the economy and on i pledges and where he is against - those on the economy and on these key points. — those on the economy and on these key points. we _ those on the economy and on these key points. we are _ those on the economy and on these key points, we are beginning - those on the economy and on these key points, we are beginning to - those on the economy and on these key points, we are beginning to geti key points, we are beginning to get ourselves— key points, we are beginning to get ourselves into — key points, we are beginning to get ourselves into a _ key points, we are beginning to get ourselves into a much _ key points, we are beginning to get ourselves into a much better- key points, we are beginning to get ourselves into a much better placel ourselves into a much better place so therefore — ourselves into a much better place so therefore i_ ourselves into a much better place so therefore i will _ ourselves into a much better place so therefore i will continue - ourselves into a much better place so therefore i will continue to - ourselves into a much better place so therefore i will continue to be i ourselves into a much better place so therefore i will continue to be ai so therefore i will continue to be a supporter. — so therefore i will continue to be a supporter, because _ so therefore i will continue to be a supporter, because fundamentally so therefore i will continue to be a i supporter, because fundamentally as a young _ supporter, because fundamentally as a young person — supporter, because fundamentally as a young person who _ supporter, because fundamentally as a young person who grew _ supporter, because fundamentally as a young person who grew up - supporter, because fundamentally as a young person who grew up in - supporter, because fundamentally as a young person who grew up in the i a young person who grew up in the time _ a young person who grew up in the time of— a young person who grew up in the time of margaret _ a young person who grew up in the time of margaret thatcher - a young person who grew up in the time of margaret thatcher and - a young person who grew up in the i time of margaret thatcher and ronald reagan _ time of margaret thatcher and ronald reagan and _ time of margaret thatcher and ronald reagan and others, _ time of margaret thatcher and ronald reagan and others, i— time of margaret thatcher and ronald reagan and others, i believe - time of margaret thatcher and ronald reagan and others, i believe in - time of margaret thatcher and ronald reagan and others, i believe in a - reagan and others, i believe in a free market. _ reagan and others, i believe in a free market, the _ reagan and others, i believe in a free market, the fundamentals. reagan and others, i believe in a| free market, the fundamentals of capitalism. — free market, the fundamentals of capitalism. and _ free market, the fundamentals of capitalism, and individuals' - free market, the fundamentals of capitalism, and individuals' rights to make — capitalism, and individuals' rights to make their— capitalism, and individuals' rights to make their own _ capitalism, and individuals' rights to make their own way _ capitalism, and individuals' rights to make their own way in - capitalism, and individuals' rights to make their own way in life, - capitalism, and individuals' rights| to make their own way in life, and those _ to make their own way in life, and those are — to make their own way in life, and those are the _ to make their own way in life, and those are the fundamental- those are the fundamental conservative _ those are the fundamental conservative values - those are the fundamental conservative values i - those are the fundamental- conservative values i continue to support — conservative values i continue to support is— conservative values i continue to su . ort. , , ., conservative values i continue to su ort. , ., conservative values i continue to su--ort. ., conservative values i continue to suuort. , ., support. is part of your political activism you — support. is part of your political activism you have _ support. is part of your political activism you have purchased i support. is part of your political activism you have purchased a i support. is part of your political- activism you have purchased a while ago and ed stone replica. and there it is in your garden, at your house, outside your theatre, we will talk about that later on, your ed stone.

since you were here last, piers the high court has ruled that you knew that hacking of voicemails happened when you were editor, did you know that anyone at the paper was using material they got from hacking voicemails?— material they got from hacking voicemails? �* , , , , , voicemails? i've set us consistently for 20 years. _ voicemails? i've set us consistently for 20 years. they _ voicemails? i've set us consistently for 20 years, they found _ voicemails? i've set us consistently for 20 years, they found in - voicemails? i've set us consistently for 20 years, they found in one - for 20 years, they found in one case. _ for 20 years, they found in one case. i— for 20 years, they found in one case. i was _ for 20 years, they found in one case, i was the main story, the for 20 years, they found in one case, iwas the main story, the bbc lead on _ case, iwas the main story, the bbc lead on me — case, iwas the main story, the bbc lead on me for days. you case, i was the main story, the bbc lead on me for days.— case, i was the main story, the bbc lead on me for days. you hate being the main story- _ lead on me for days. you hate being the main story. the _ lead on me for days. you hate being the main story. the idea _ lead on me for days. you hate being the main story. the idea of- lead on me for days. you hate being the main story. the idea of prince i the main story. the idea of prince harry suing _ the main story. the idea of prince harry suing anyone _ the main story. the idea of prince harry suing anyone for— the main story. the idea of prince harry suing anyone for privacy - the main story. the idea of prince l harry suing anyone for privacy given how aggressively he has invaded the royal family was accurate as himself. _ royal family was accurate as himself, laughable, but on the central— himself, laughable, but on the central point i have set for 20 years — central point i have set for 20 years that _ central point i have set for 20 years that i did not know about phone — years that i did not know about phone hacking at the mirror. they found _ phone hacking at the mirror. they found one — phone hacking at the mirror. they found one story in that whole case which _ found one story in that whole case which the — found one story in that whole case which the judge concluded may or may not have _ which the judge concluded may or may not have come from phone hacking. i'm not have come from phone hacking. i'm sorry. _ not have come from phone hacking. i'm sorry, that is not enough. the 'udue at i'm sorry, that is not enough. the judge at the _ i'm sorry, that is not enough. tie: judge at the high court accepted the evidence of several witnesses who

claimed that you were aware, the stories you are publishing, where the product of phone hacking. so you are saying today that the high court is wrong, and they were wrong to say, "there was compelling evidence that the editors of each newspaper knew very well that voice mail interception was used extensively, and habitually. " thejudges wrong? i will repeat myself, there is no evidence — i will repeat myself, there is no evidence that i ever knew about phone _ evidence that i ever knew about phone hacking and i would say in relation — phone hacking and i would say in relation to— phone hacking and i would say in relation to those who went to the hi-h relation to those who went to the high court— relation to those who went to the high court to give evidence, i was not allowed that privilege, i was not allowed that privilege, i was not called — not allowed that privilege, i was not called by either side to talk about— not called by either side to talk about this yet i became the poster boy for— about this yet i became the poster boy for the — about this yet i became the poster boy for the trial, which i found ludicrous _ boy for the trial, which i found ludicrous. there are a lot of people down _ ludicrous. there are a lot of people down there — ludicrous. there are a lot of people down there spewing utter nonsense. you say _ down there spewing utter nonsense. you say that is no evidence that you were aware. you say that is no evidence that you were aware-— you say that is no evidence that you were aware._ i'm - you say that is no evidence that you were aware._ i'm asking| were aware. there isn't. i'm asking ou were aware. there isn't. i'm asking you directly — were aware. there isn't. i'm asking you directly if— were aware. there isn't. i'm asking you directly if you _ were aware. there isn't. i'm asking you directly if you are _ were aware. there isn't. i'm asking you directly if you are aware, - were aware. there isn't. i'm asking you directly if you are aware, and l you directly if you are aware, and have you ever listen to voice mail

without the consent of the person? you asked me that last time, every time i_ you asked me that last time, every time i come — you asked me that last time, every time i come on, you can ask me the question. _ time i come on, you can ask me the question. i— time i come on, you can ask me the question, i don't mind, i have been asked. _ question, i don't mind, i have been asked. there — question, i don't mind, i have been asked, there is no evidence that i knew. _ asked, there is no evidence that i knew. if— asked, there is no evidence that i knew, if somebody wants to produce evidence _ knew, if somebody wants to produce evidence that does not involve somebody like alistair campbell who brought— somebody like alistair campbell who brought this country into an illegal warm _ brought this country into an illegal warm and — brought this country into an illegal war... and the, i was not allowed to defend _ war... and the, i was not allowed to defend myself in court. we can act i'm defend myself in court. we can act i'm giving — defend myself in court. we can act i'm giving you a chance to get this absolutely— i'm giving you a chance to get this absolutely on the record, i'm asking you directly. — absolutely on the record, i'm asking you directly, not if there is evidence... i havejust you directly, not if there is evidence... i have just answered you _ evidence... i have 'ust answered ou. . i evidence... i have 'ust answered you-d i dun-t. l evidence... i have 'ust answered i you.�* i didn't. we you. have you ever... i didn't. we could have — you. have you ever... i didn't. we could have the _ you. have you ever... i didn't. we could have the same _ you. have you ever... i didn't. we| could have the same conversation. bbc has _ could have the same conversation. bbc has revelled in my involvement in this. _ bbc has revelled in my involvement in this, without any actual evidence tojustify_ in this, without any actual evidence tojustify me being centre stage, and i_ tojustify me being centre stage, and i don't — tojustify me being centre stage, and i don't blame you personally, but it— and i don't blame you personally, but it is— and i don't blame you personally, but it is a — and i don't blame you personally, but it is a little bit galling given

that i_ but it is a little bit galling given that i wasn't even involved in the case _ that i wasn't even involved in the case. nobody called me on either side and — case. nobody called me on either side and put any of these questions to me _ side and put any of these questions to me we — side and put any of these questions to me. we had a bunch of ne—erdowell chancers _ to me. we had a bunch of ne—erdowell chancers going to court, spraying me with unprovable nonsense. you chancers going to court, spraying me with unprovable nonsense.— with unprovable nonsense. you are a fan of fair questioning _ with unprovable nonsense. you are a fan of fair questioning and _ with unprovable nonsense. you are a fan of fair questioning and i - with unprovable nonsense. you are a fan of fair questioning and i had - fan of fair questioning and i had any chance to give your defence, so thank you, we will go back to what he spoke about at the beginning of the programme. putin's aggression didn't start in ukraine — for years, he's been tightening the screw on his critics at home, and putting them in danger abroad. alexei navalny died in prison in february, after being locked up for his beliefs. but his close friend and ally, leonid volkov, was, just a few weeks later, attacked by men with hammers outside his home in lithuania. he explained why, despite the dangers, the political battle

against vladimir putin goes on. there was a smash, the window was smashed. the driver, the left window of the car fell on our side of the road where we drive in europe. and the glass shards were like in my face. and so i kind of like reclined in the passenger seat. i saw the guy with the pepper spray who sprayed it onto me through the broken window, and i started to punch, to kick him, trying to kick him away. and this was with my left foot. and he started to smash it with hammers that he had in his right hand. and after a while, after i made some noise, this was a car alarm and so on, he ran away. it was not a robbery. i had a backpack with some documents

and money on the back—seat of the car, and there was not an attempt to, you know, steal something from me. he was not saying anything. there was no message, like the message, the attack was the message. what was that message? we can kill ou, we what was that message? we can kill you. we are — what was that message? we can kill you. we are after— what was that message? we can kill you, we are after you, _ what was that message? we can kill you, we are after you, we'd - what was that message? we can kill you, we are after you, we'd still- you, we are after you, we'd still consider everything you guys are doing. it is a threat to the regime which is a message that was important to us.— which is a message that was important to us. you fear for your and our important to us. you fear for your and your families _ important to us. you fear for your and your families lives? - important to us. you fear for your and your families lives? i - important to us. you fear for your and your families lives? i always i and your families lives? i always knew this risk _ and your families lives? i always knew this risk exists. _ and your families lives? i always knew this risk exists. we - and your families lives? i always knew this risk exists. we are - knew this risk exists. we are fighting a crazy dictator which if he doesn't recognise any red lines, he doesn't recognise any red lines, he is killing thousands of people.

he's killing mainly his political opponents. he's killing people in europe, it's my intentional choice to fight against putin and the risks come. i am a bit surprised actually that everyone is talking about this attack against me like, putin overstepped another red line. come on. he has left all red lines behind many years ago. he doesn't recognise any rules or borders to his killing people everyday. any rules or borders to his killing people everyday-— any rules or borders to his killing people everyday. what happened to our friend people everyday. what happened to your friend alexei _ people everyday. what happened to your friend alexei navalny - people everyday. what happened to your friend alexei navalny shocked i your friend alexei navalny shocked the whole world. how have you managed?— the whole world. how have you manaaed? , ., ., , , managed? first, not really possible to compensate. _ managed? first, not really possible to compensate. alexey _ managed? first, not really possible to compensate. alexey was - managed? first, not really possible to compensate. alexey was a - managed? first, not really possible to compensate. alexey was a close| to compensate. alexey was a close friend, and inspiring personality, a true hero and a great and capable political leader. there is no

substitution for him and this loss will always be an open wound in our hearts in the hearts of his colleagues and friends. but we also know that he asked us to never give up know that he asked us to never give up and to continue our work and to defeat putin and to build this beautiful russia of the future which alexei dreams offer so many years is the practical way to preserve his legacy and to make his ultimate sacrifice not to be in vain. mr; sacrifice not to be in vain. my message _ sacrifice not to be in vain. my message for— sacrifice not to be in vain. my message for the situation when i am killed _ message for the situation when i am killed is— message for the situation when i am killed is very simple, not give up. everybody— killed is very simple, not give up. everybody saw the terrible circumstances of his death but also the extraordinary courage and dignity of his wife yulia. do you think she is the leader now of your

movement?— think she is the leader now of your movement? , , ., , ,, , ., movement? everybody does. she is a ve stron: movement? everybody does. she is a very strong personality. _ movement? everybody does. she is a very strong personality. she - movement? everybody does. she is a very strong personality. she never. very strong personality. she never wanted this public role. she was always very close political adviser to alexei and for us and for the organisation, the teams who gather together and organise, it's very clear that our task in this situation is to support yulia and all her endeavours and everything she does. that's what we're doing now. . . . she does. that's what we're doing now. , , ., , , she does. that's what we're doing now. , , . , , ., she does. that's what we're doing now. , she does. that's what we're doing now. ., now. russia seems to be advancing in aaain. are now. russia seems to be advancing in again- are you — now. russia seems to be advancing in again. are you worried _ now. russia seems to be advancing in again. are you worried about - now. russia seems to be advancing in again. are you worried about that - again. are you worried about that and what happens if putin is allowed to win? i and what happens if putin is allowed to win? ., �* ~' and what happens if putin is allowed to win? ., �* ~ ., �*, to win? i don't think that putin's victo is to win? i don't think that putin's victory is visible. _ to win? i don't think that putin's victory is visible. he's _ to win? i don't think that putin's victory is visible. he's perfectlyl victory is visible. he's perfectly aware that the vast majority of the population doesn't support the war

and wants it to stop but he is bluffing in a way, trying to present himself like much stronger than he is. hopefulthat himself like much stronger than he is. hopeful that it will be enough to force ukraine and its western allies to enter some negotiation under his conditions. don't get bluffed. ~ ., ., under his conditions. don't get bluffed. ., ., ., bluffed. what would you say to western politicians _ bluffed. what would you say to western politicians particularlyi bluffed. what would you say to i western politicians particularly in the usa who have shown signs of fatigue when it comes to supporting ukraine? the fatigue when it comes to supporting ukraine? , ,., , fatigue when it comes to supporting ukraine? , , , fatigue when it comes to supporting ukraine? , , . ., ukraine? the message is very clear. putin will not _ ukraine? the message is very clear. putin will not stop _ ukraine? the message is very clear. putin will not stop the _ ukraine? the message is very clear. putin will not stop the war _ ukraine? the message is very clear. putin will not stop the war ever - ukraine? the message is very clear. putin will not stop the war ever and | putin will not stop the war ever and every ceasefire, every negotiation will be used by him only to produce more weapons, recruit more soldiers, get to a more efficient next stage of the war. the second part of the message, it doesn't make any sense

to negotiate with putin. putin signed the european declaration of human rights, which he violates in every possible way. what sense does it make to try to sign yet another agreement with him when we are perfectly knowledgeable that he will not act upon what has been agreed? what is the answer? if sanctions haven't dislodged in?— what is the answer? if sanctions haven't dislodged in? there is no sinale haven't dislodged in? there is no single answer. — haven't dislodged in? there is no single answer, there _ haven't dislodged in? there is no single answer, there is _ haven't dislodged in? there is no single answer, there is no - haven't dislodged in? there is no single answer, there is no silverl single answer, there is no silver bullet. it's the largest evil in the world since adolf hitler and this comparison is absolutely ok for me. we don't have to hope that one magical trick will defeat him. but military pressure, economic pressure, political pressure from inside and outside, supplying more weapons to ukraine, everything. if

there are 50 things we can do, we have to do all 50 of them. if you do 49, it's not enough because it's the greatest threat to the world we've seenin greatest threat to the world we've seen in the last 18 years. iloathed greatest threat to the world we've seen in the last 18 years.- seen in the last 18 years. what is next for you _ seen in the last 18 years. what is next for you and _ seen in the last 18 years. what is next for you and what _ seen in the last 18 years. what is next for you and what advice - seen in the last 18 years. what is next for you and what advice do i seen in the last 18 years. what is i next for you and what advice do you think alexei navalny would give you now? �* . ., j , think alexei navalny would give you now? �* . ., now? alexei navalny's political messa . e now? alexei navalny's political message was _ now? alexei navalny's political message was never _ now? alexei navalny's political message was never give - now? alexei navalny's political message was never give up. i now? alexei navalny's politicali message was never give up. the now? alexei navalny's political- message was never give up. the way he built his political organisation, the anti—corruption foundation which i proudly represent here, was to make it as flexible as possible. so now we are more focused on international politics, supporting yulia navalnaya, putting together sanction lists, using our knowledge of how putin's regime is built to help the west tailor more efficient sanction policy, doing many different things. but the

cornerstone idea is to find and increase the level of stress. to do something that makes life harder for vladimir putin. people under stress make mistakes and putin is also a human being, despite many proofs to the contrary, and he is also making mistakes. some of these mistakes will be his ultimate but you have to be patient and not give up.- be patient and not give up. leonid volkov, fascinating _ be patient and not give up. leonid volkov, fascinating to _ be patient and not give up. leonid volkov, fascinating to hear - be patient and not give up. leonid volkov, fascinating to hear from l be patient and not give up. leonid i volkov, fascinating to hear from him volkov, fascinating to hearfrom him at a time when foreign affairs are so much part of a political conversation in a way they are not always. leaders are being more explicit about threats to us from around the world. do you think that has an appeal to voters? i around the world. do you think that has an appeal to voters?— has an appeal to voters? i think the are has an appeal to voters? i think they are being _ has an appeal to voters? i think they are being explicit - has an appeal to voters? i think they are being explicit about. they are being explicit about certain threats but not talking about the climate crisis which is one of the hugest threats to our security. multiple reports have come out recently that say so but the funding that's needed for us to

transition away from an economy forcing us towards destruction, and we have an opportunity where all of us get to live in dignity and get to be safe, where people are not living in abject poverty and others have more than they could ever need to live on and it's ridiculous to me we are not focusing on that as a solution and also as this kind of exciting thing we could have. i think at the same time i would like to speak about what's happening in palestine at the moment and the fact israel are deliberately targeting every form of civilian infrastructure that is necessary for people to live. universities, hospitals, mosques, churches and they've killed over 15,000 children. but how government is still licensing arms to them. it is abhorrent and many people across the country are completely heartbroken by the images they are seeing and we should not be supporting israel in their apartheid, occupation and genocide of the palestinian people.

i agree that's what is going on now in gaza _ i agree that's what is going on now in gaza is— i agree that's what is going on now in gaza is unpalatable for pretty much _ in gaza is unpalatable for pretty much everyone apart from netanyahu's government. there is a lot of forgetting going on about what happened on october the 7th, 1200 happened on october the 7th,1200 people _ happened on october the 7th,1200 people were slaughtered, nearly 7000 injured. _ people were slaughtered, nearly 7000 injured, many of them irrevocably badly _ injured, many of them irrevocably badly i_ injured, many of them irrevocably badly i did — injured, many of them irrevocably badly. i did check to see what you tweet _ badly. i did check to see what you tweet it. — badly. i did check to see what you tweet it, you are very active on social— tweet it, you are very active on social media, what you tweeted after october _ social media, what you tweeted after october to _ social media, what you tweeted after october to seventh. do you remember? let me _ october to seventh. do you remember? let me help _ october to seventh. do you remember? let me help you. nothing. you are very influential and so my point is yes you _ very influential and so my point is yes you can— very influential and so my point is yes you can be critical of israel and what — yes you can be critical of israel and what they are doing by way of response — and what they are doing by way of response but if you literally had no reaction _ response but if you literally had no reaction at — response but if you literally had no reaction at all, even when you have such a _ reaction at all, even when you have such a massive influence, or you did was wait _ such a massive influence, or you did was wait two — such a massive influence, or you did was wait two or three days and stop talking _ was wait two or three days and stop talking about israel and genocide. let michaela answer. to talking about israel and genocide. let michaela answer.— talking about israel and genocide. let michaela answer. to make out that what is _ let michaela answer. to make out that what is happening _ let michaela answer. to make out that what is happening right - let michaela answer. to make out that what is happening right now. let michaela answer. to make out| that what is happening right now is in response to october the 7th is not true. we need to look at the history. this week we had to

commemorate 76 years since the catastrophe, the nakba. that was when israel began. the expulsion of palestinians. my best friend's grandfather turned 90 this year. he was born injerusalem in free palestine. his 14 years older than israel and was forced out of his home. that's the story of hundreds of thousands are now millions. the idea this is just of thousands are now millions. the idea this isjust in reaction of thousands are now millions. the idea this is just in reaction to october the 7th and also every few years israel does launch attack that is known as mowing the lawn... there's a lot of history and complexity and we've debated it a lot in the studio but i want to move on to something completely different, about what has happened with this drama baby reindeer. it's been a huge hit on streaming. you've watched it. what did you think about it? i watched it. what did you think about it? ., . ., ., , .,

watched it. what did you think about it? ., . ., ., ., . it? i watched it and i also watched piers' interview. _ it? i watched it and i also watched piers' interview. i— it? i watched it and i also watched piers' interview. i found _ it? i watched it and i also watched piers' interview. i found it - piers' interview. ifound it disturbing and difficult to watch. i'm glad i watched it. i think it's very interesting what has subsequently arisen and piers it is in a better place... the subsequently arisen and piers it is in a better place...— in a better place... the story is about a woman _ in a better place... the story is about a woman who _ in a better place... the story is about a woman who stalked . in a better place... the story is about a woman who stalked an| about a woman who stalked an individual and netflix say it's based on a true story but the women depicted has been very, very upset. what you of it? i depicted has been very, very upset. what you of it?— what you of it? i think it's a big roblem what you of it? i think it's a big problem for _ what you of it? i think it's a big problem for netflix, _ what you of it? i think it's a big problem for netflix, for - what you of it? i think it's a bigi problem for netflix, for richard gadd _ problem for netflix, for richard gadd and — problem for netflix, for richard gadd and four clerkenwell films. they _ gadd and four clerkenwell films. they say — gadd and four clerkenwell films. they say unequivocally this is a true _ they say unequivocally this is a true story _ they say unequivocally this is a true story. spoiler alert, the denouement involves the stalker in court _ denouement involves the stalker in court admitting to her crimes and being _ court admitting to her crimes and being given an eight—month prison sentence — being given an eight—month prison sentence. when fiona harvey, the real-life _ sentence. when fiona harvey, the real—life martha, came on piers morgan — real—life martha, came on piers morgan uncensored, she was emphatic she's never— morgan uncensored, she was emphatic she's never been to court over this, she's never been to court over this, she hasn't— she's never been to court over this, she hasn't pled guilty or been to prison — she hasn't pled guilty or been to prison no — she hasn't pled guilty or been to prison. no one can produce any evidence — prison. no one can produce any evidence she has. if that is the

case _ evidence she has. if that is the case and — evidence she has. if that is the case and it— evidence she has. if that is the case and it turns out she hasn't, the other— case and it turns out she hasn't, the other part of this is the failure _ the other part of this is the failure of— the other part of this is the failure of duty of care by netflix not allow — failure of duty of care by netflix not allow her to be identified, which — not allow her to be identified, which she _ not allow her to be identified, which she was instantly because they used actual— which she was instantly because they used actual postings from her twitter— used actual postings from her twitter feed in the series. like this story— twitter feed in the series. like this story has some way to run. can you tell— this story has some way to run. can you tell us — this story has some way to run. can you tell us what you have an ed stone _ you tell us what you have an ed stone in — you tell us what you have an ed stone in your garden as a tory donor? — stone in your garden as a tory donor? ~ , , ., stone in your garden as a tory donor? . , , ., donor? when it disappeared i was readina donor? when it disappeared i was reading the _ donor? when it disappeared i was reading the papers _ donor? when it disappeared i was reading the papers one _ donor? when it disappeared i was reading the papers one morning l donor? when it disappeared i was i reading the papers one morning and donor? when it disappeared i was - reading the papers one morning and i thought it would be important that somebody could recreate or rediscover it. i am lucky enough to enjoy collecting some contemporary art in my garden and i added this as art in my garden and i added this as a piece of contemporary art and social commentary.— social commentary. political commentary- _ social commentary. political commentary. thank- social commentary. political commentary. thank you - social commentary. political commentary. thank you for| social commentary. political. commentary. thank you for all social commentary. political- commentary. thank you for all of our commentary. thank you for all of your commentary _ commentary. thank you for all of your commentary today. - thank you for getting in touch. we asked you about the party pledge

cards. adams said, we need serious pledges on the green agenda. amanda said, no one mentioned housing, the biggest issue for poor people, young people, renters and pensioners. john says, hard decisions have to be made. i believe whoever is in power will be in the same position. a big thanks to my panel and to all our guests. an even bigger thanks to you for watching, and for all your comments and questions. keep them coming, there'll be plenty more placards, platforms and politics coming in the next few weeks and months of course, too. both the prime minister and keir starmer are very obviously upping the pace, with rishi sunak to turn to immigration this week, expected to go off on his travels again to austria. we'll be back next sunday.

good morning, and welcome to politics north west. live from london. this is bbc news us national security adviser jake sullivan is holding talks with saudi arabia's crown prince in the latest bid to halt

the fighting in gaza the uk's biggest ever health scandal — billions of pounds of compensation are expected in the infected blood scandal. ukraine's oleksander usyk beats the uk's tyson fury — to become the first unified world heavyweight boxing champion for a quarter—of—a—century. and judgment day — will it be arsenal or manchester city celebrating — as the premier league season comes to a close? president biden's national security adviser is due to hold talks with saudi arabia's crown prince in the in the saudi city of dhahran. it's the latest us diplomatic initiative to try to halt the fighting in gaza. previous talks involvign israel and hamas have failed to make a significant breakthrough. in the latest violence, a gaza hospital an israeli air strike targeting a house

at a refugee camp in the centre of the palestinian territory killed