steep tariff hikes en opposes steep tariff hikes on critical technologies from china hitting goods from electric cars to chips. welcome to our show. we start with russia's leader concluding his two—day visit in china. there were smiles, handshakes and warm words from xi jinping and warm words from xi jinping and vladimir putin as both countries pledged to deepen relations. this year marks the 75th anniversary of the establishment of china—russia diplomatic relations and both agreed to combat what they say are destructive and hostile us policies. the us is urging china to stop supporting russia's war in ukraine, saying it cannot seek to improve ties with the west and continue to support moscow, but there's been little sign mr xi has heeded those words and trade between china and russia has surged since the invasion. the kremlin leader said he appreciated china's objective and flexible position on the conflict. our china

correspondent has more on those developments. if the west wants to stop russia's advances in ukraine, they know here is one place they know here is one place they can do that. now, beijing is not supplying moscow with weapons, but the west believes it is supplying russia with components that it can use in its war machine. the us has a raft of new sanctions at the ready, this time to target chinese banks. so president xi has a decision to make. for more on that relationship, i spoke to a former us ambassador to china from 2011 to 2014. vladimir putin really wanted to play up vladimir putin really wanted to play up the significance of this meeting with xi jinping play up the significance of this meeting with xijinping in china, and he said that he and xi are as close as brothers. do you think xijinping xi are as close as brothers. do you think xi jinping sees xi are as close as brothers. do you think xijinping sees it that way? you think xi jinping sees it that way?— you think xi jinping sees it that wa ? ~ . . , ., that way? well, certainly china wants to form _ that way? well, certainly china wants to form closer _ that way? well, certainly china wants to form closer relations | wants to form closer relations with russia, simply because they want a strong partnership in opposition to the united states, and the western allies,

especially given the stance of the united states toward china in terms of tariffs, restrictions on exports, of high—tech goods, semiconductors and machinery to make these things and, of course, our resistance and the pushback on their activities around the taiwan strait. russia, of course, is bristling at the sanctions and alliance of the united states and european union against russia because of its invasion of ukraine. and so the two countries are forming a stronger partnership because they have big criticisms of us and western policies toward each of those countries. but do you think china sees this as an even playing field between these two leaders? it appeared that vladimir putin was coming to beijing certainly with hat in hand asking for more financial support as well. well, certainly china is in the stronger position, because russia very badly needs money to pay for their war effort.

they have been... they've not been able to sell as much oil and gas as they used to when they supplied europe, and so they're looking for customers, namely china, and they're eager to have china buy more goods from russia to help pay... provide the funds so that russia can continue the war effort, as well as trying to get components for some of their military weapons. so china is really in the negotiating seat, has really the stronger hand on these negotiations and discussions. what does the deepening of this relationship, do you think, mean for europe and the us? well, certainly the two countries are going to be aligned in terms of votes in the united nations, any type of resolutions dealing with the conflict in israel and the gaza strip. and all other hostilities all around the world. china and russia normallyjoin world. china and russia normally join together world. china and russia normallyjoin together in their votes at the un security council. but at the same time,

they are trying to curry the favour of nonaligned countries — countries in africa, latin america, south—east asia — to lessen the impact and the influence of the united states. so china, for instance, is offering just huge amounts of foreign aid, foreign assistance to developing countries, trying to developing countries, trying to developing countries, trying to develop stronger diplomatic and cultural ties with these countries, and trying to pull these countries away from america and the west. indeed. we are seeing that in particular in the global south, aren't we? and, ambassador, you served as ambassador to china between 2011 and 2014. and it's worth saying, you know, that was a different time in china's ascent but also in china's relationship to the us. do you think that us failed to anticipate the rival that xi jinping and china would become, and is now? jinping and china would become, and is now?— and is now? well, i think a lot of peeple _ and is now? well, i think a lot of peeple have _ and is now? well, i think a lot of people have been - of people have been disappointed this the way that xijinping has led the disappointed this the way that xi jinping has led the country. it's become a lot more authoritarian, injecting the communist party into the affairs of companies and, of

course, the crackdown on human rights, censorship, the treatment of the uyghurs, and the list goes on and on. and certainly the hostile acts, very aggressive acts, toward taiwan. so it's not surprising that the relationship between the united states and china have really worsened over the last several years and, while both the united states and china want to stabilise the relationship, we know that the biden administration will continue to impose very strategic, targeted tariffs or restrictions on us goods going to china and tariffs on chinese goods coming into the united states. �* ~ , ., states. and, ambassador, we “ust states. and, ambassador, we just have _ states. and, ambassador, we just have about _ states. and, ambassador, we just have about 45 _ states. and, ambassador, we just have about 45 seconds i just have about 45 seconds left, but could you tell us how strong you see president xi at the moment? how has he been able to consolidate his position in china and the global stage?— position in china and the aulobalstae? h , . global stage? he's very much been able _ global stage? he's very much been able to _ global stage? he's very much been able to consolidate - global stage? he's very much been able to consolidate his l been able to consolidate his position in china. he's changed the constitution so he can actually be ruler for life. he's used prosecutions against

people to send a signal — don't oppose my policies, because i can find some sort of dirt on you and i can bring you up on charges and have you imprisoned. so be very quiet and just go along with what i'm trying to do. so he's really nullified and dampened opposition to his policies. at the same time, he's become a lot more authoritarian ambassador, very good to have you on bbc news tonight. thanks so much for your analysis. my pleasure- _ here in the us, tensions with china were further strained when, as we heard, president biden strengthened tar on imports on thursday. biden said china chinese trade practices are cheating, not competing. his new policy triples and even quadruples tariffs on some goods, including electric vehicles. china vowed retaliation warning the mood would "seriously affect the atmosphere of bilateral cooperation". beijing and

washington have faced problems since president trump's sweeping tariffs and levies on china. for more, i spoke to a congressman who sits on the house select committee on china. congressman, i want to ask about the tariffs like the ones president biden is imposing on china. in the past, they've led to higher consumer prices and, in fact, the us international trade commission said, in 2023, that us importers "bore nearly the full cost of the tariffs put in place by the trump administration." the us is still struggling with inflation. do you think this is the right time for these types of tariffs? ~ the right time for these types of tariffs?— of tariffs? well, if they were “ust of tariffs? well, if they were just tariffs — of tariffs? well, if they were just tariffs across _ of tariffs? well, if they were just tariffs across the - of tariffs? well, if they were just tariffs across the board, j just tariffs across the board, i would say no. but these are very specifically targeted tariffs that address industries that are important to the united states and that china is manipulating. i mean wejust can't have private sector companies competing to make electric vehicles when china offers massive, massive state subsidies that disport the market. we have to do something about that and that's what

these tariffs address. fire about that and that's what these tariffs address. are you mostly concerned _ these tariffs address. are you mostly concerned about - these tariffs address. are you l mostly concerned about electric vehicles when you talk about oversupply, for example, distargeting the parked? well, there's a few _ distargeting the parked? well, there's a few things. _ distargeting the parked? well, there's a few things. i - distargeting the parked? well, there's a few things. i mean i there's a few things. i mean steel is another issue. and we have a lot of concerns about semiconductors. if you go through the list, it's a very targeted set of tariffs. they're really directed at places where we know the chinese are manipulating the market, using illegal state subsidies, violating international trade rules, and so this is not something that's across the board. china is still one of the us's biggest trading partners, as you know. are you worried about any po possible retaliation from china? at any po possible retaliation from china?— any po possible retaliation from china? _, , ., �*, from china? of course, that's alwa s from china? of course, that's always a _ from china? of course, that's always a concern _ from china? of course, that's always a concern but, - from china? of course, that's always a concern but, look, i| always a concern but, look, i mean we're very transparent about why we're doing this. and we've also said very clearly that if china will stop manipulating the market, will engage in fair trade practices, then we can remove the tariffs. none of these tariffs to this point seem to have changed china's behaviour. in fact, it appears to be the opposite. are

wejust heading appears to be the opposite. are we just heading towards a larger trade war?- we just heading towards a larger trade war? well, these new tariffs. — larger trade war? well, these new tariffs, of _ larger trade war? well, these new tariffs, of course, - larger trade war? well, these new tariffs, of course, have l new tariffs, of course, have not had any time to have any effect. we'll see if they have any effect down the road. i think they're significant tariffs. this is not 5% here, 10% there. these are significant tariffs that are absolutely designed to change behaviour. and look, at the end of the day, what we want is to have good, fair trade with china. and, frankly, they should want to have fair trade with us. i should want to have fair trade with us. . ,., should want to have fair trade with us. . ., ., ., with us. i also want to ask about the _ with us. i also want to ask about the motivation - with us. i also want to ask about the motivation of i with us. i also want to ask . about the motivation of these tariffs. because a number of economists who have been asked about them have said when it comes to economic growth in the us, they might not really make much of a difference and that it might be more about politics, appeasing voters in important battle ground states in an election year. what do you think of that?— you think of that? well, i haven't — you think of that? well, i haven't read _ you think of that? well, i haven't read all- you think of that? well, i haven't read all the - you think of that? well, i - haven't read all the economic analyses. 0bviously, haven't read all the economic analyses. obviously, there are certainly times when tariffs don't work very well. i'm generally someone who supports free trade. but, again, the issue here is that china is not practising free trade. they're not practising fair trade. i

don't think we really want to have to put these tariffs in place at a fundamental level. i fundamentally want to have a free trade system, but china has to start abiding by the rules. ~ ., has to start abiding by the rules. ~ . g , . rules. meanwhile, the justice department _ rules. meanwhile, the justice department and _ rules. meanwhile, the justice department and tiktok- rules. meanwhile, the justice department and tiktok have | department and tiktok have asked an apales court to fast—track its ruling on a law that would potentially ban the app. the bill alleges that tiktok poses a national security risk due to its links to china and requires it to divest from its chinese—owned parent company or face a ban. it is the latest legal development in a series of suits filed relating to the law. taiwan will enter a new era on monday as president tsai ing—wen hands over power. she has served two terms in office and in that time has faced growing pressure from beijing. chinese president xijinping has said what he calls reunification must be fulfilled and that taiwan has effectively become more depend end on support from the us to ensure it continues to self—govern. 0ur correspondent, rupert wingfield hayes, sat down with

president tsai and asked her about her legacy. it's hard to imagine a famous drag act being invited to perform for the communist party leadership. that's exactly what president tsai ing—wen did this week at the presidential office building in taipei. in her eight years in power, this softly spoken former law professor has turned taiwan into arguably the most progressive society in asia. same—sex marriage is now legal here and taipei hosts asia's largest pride festival. as she prepares to step down on monday, i sat down with president tsai at her home in taipei and asked her why she chose this particular fight. you were well ahead of any other country in asia in pushing through that legislation. why was that such an important priority for you? it's a test to the societies here to see to what extent they

can move forward with their values. and it was a very difficultjourney. i am difficult journey. i am actually difficultjourney. i am actually rather proud that we managed to overcome our differences managed to overcome our difference— managed to overcome our difference ' . differences one difference tsai has failed to _ differences one difference tsai has failed to overcome - differences one difference tsai has failed to overcome is - differences one difference tsai has failed to overcome is that. has failed to overcome is that with china. during her eight years in office, beijing's military intimidation of taiwan has dramatically increased. but tsai says she does not think an attack on the island is imminent.— attack on the island is imminent. ., .,~ imminent. the cost of taking over taiwan _ imminent. the cost of taking over taiwan is _ imminent. the cost of taking over taiwan is going - imminent. the cost of taking over taiwan is going to - imminent. the cost of taking over taiwan is going to be i over taiwan is going to be enormous. chinese leadership have to make a good calculation as to whether they are prepared to pay the cost. what we need to pay the cost. what we need to do is to increase the cost of an invasion.— to do is to increase the cost of an invasion. despite being a thrivin: of an invasion. despite being a thriving democracy _ of an invasion. despite being a thriving democracy of - of an invasion. despite being a thriving democracy of 23 - thriving democracy of 23 million people, only 12 countries now formally recognise this place, down from 22 countries when tsai came to

power. but she says pressure from china must not be allowed to erase the reality of taiwan's existence. erase the reality of taiwan's existence-— erase the reality of taiwan's existence. china, of course, will say we're _ existence. china, of course, will say we're part _ existence. china, of course, will say we're part of- existence. china, of course, will say we're part of them. | will say we're part of them. it's for the people to interpret what taiwan represents at this moment in time, but the most important thing is that we are on our own. and we are a democracy. and we enjoy freedom and democracy and progressive values and we are a group of people that are very proud of ourselves. 0n ourselves. on monday, the mantle of power will pass from tsai to her vice—president, william lai. if anything, he is disliked by china even more than she is. for the people of taiwan, things are not about to get any easier. for more on all of these stories, i wasjoined earlier by a journalist and columnist at foreign poll circumstances a

former assistant secretary of state under mike pompeo and the ceo of the crack institute for tech diplomacy and the director of the china power project at the centre for strategic and international studies. she also served as a senior adviser to the department of defence in the department of defence in the 0bama and trump administrations. very good to have all of you with us tonight in the studio and also, as well, michael, to talk about this issue. i want to start with you to talk about the president putin visit to china. we saw those very warm images of course and we saw xi jinping and president putin both saying that this is an important relationship and they are deepening the relationship as well. it doesn't look like mr xi really is taking much of the pressure from washington on board when you see those images. board when you see those ima . es. ., board when you see those imaaes. ., �* , board when you see those imaaes. ., h ., board when you see those imaaes. ., �*, ., images. no, he's not. in fact, ithink images. no, he's not. in fact, i think particularly _ images. no, he's not. in fact, i think particularly the - images. no, he's not. in fact, i think particularly the visit i i think particularly the visit to the harbin technology institute the two of them made was a deliberate rebuke to the us and antony blinken, the us

secretary of state, who was just there in april and delivered a tough comment about all of the technology help that china has been giving to russia in its war against ukraine. i think this was xi's way of saying, "i'm not about to be bullied by the us, ""and there were a lot of signals to that effect. ~ . . ., ., effect. michelle, coming to ou, effect. michelle, coming to you. what— effect. michelle, coming to you, what did _ effect. michelle, coming to you, what did you - effect. michelle, coming to you, what did you make i effect. michelle, coming to you, what did you make of| effect. michelle, coming to i you, what did you make of some of that symbolism and what michael referred to as putin's visit to harbin as well? it’s visit to harbin as well? it's important _ visit to harbin as well? it's important to _ visit to harbin as well? it's important to knows that while putin — important to knows that while putin and general secretary xi jinping — putin and general secretary xi jinping were furthering their partnership and alliance, the united — partnership and alliance, the united states and its partners and allies have also been responding appropriately to make — responding appropriately to make sure we're winning and leading — make sure we're winning and leading in_ make sure we're winning and leading in critical sectors and emerging technologies. of course, _ emerging technologies. of course, the united states enacted increased tariffs on several _ enacted increased tariffs on several strategic chinese industries, including evs, as

well— industries, including evs, as well as— industries, including evs, as well as semiconductors and 0ther— well as semiconductors and other critical industrials. it's _ other critical industrials. it's not _ other critical industrials. it's notjust us. the eu is enacting _ it's notjust us. the eu is enacting its own anti—subsidy study— enacting its own anti—subsidy study to— enacting its own anti—subsidy study to understand whether or not china — study to understand whether or not china is also using unfair trade — not china is also using unfair trade practices in evs. australia recently increased its own _ australia recently increased its own defence budget by $50 billion_ its own defence budget by $50 billion to invest more in nuclear— billion to invest more in nuclear submarines and critical and emerging technologies with the united states and with the uk as— the united states and with the uk as part of the aukus deal. japan — uk as part of the aukus deal. japan increased its own economic security and technological alliance with the united — technological alliance with the united states. so all of our partners _ united states. so all of our partners and allies across the world — partners and allies across the world are _ partners and allies across the world are also very eyes—wide—open on the reality and the — eyes—wide—open on the reality and the threat that china and xi jinping present to the world for economic prosperity, security— for economic prosperity, security and values, and that was — security and values, and that was only— security and values, and that was only proved further by putins— was only proved further by putin's visit this week. we're _ putin's visit this week. we're going to come back to tariffs by bonnie, i want to come to you with the question of russia's war in ukraine and what that means to china. we

heard michael mention antony blinken's trip recently, his trip to the region. he sat down with our correspondent and talks specifically about china's support of russia. let's play that clip now. for china, if— let's play that clip now. for china, if it _ let's play that clip now. for china, if it wants _ let's play that clip now. for china, if it wants to - let's play that clip now. for china, if it wants to have better— china, if it wants to have better relations, - china, if it wants to have better relations, not i china, if it wants to have| better relations, not only china, if it wants to have i better relations, not only with us, but — better relations, not only with us, but with— better relations, not only with us, but with countries - better relations, not only with us, but with countries in- us, but with countries in europe, _ us, but with countries in europe, it _ us, but with countries in europe, it can't - us, but with countries in europe, it can't do i us, but with countries in europe, it can't do thatl us, but with countries in- europe, it can't do that while at the — europe, it can't do that while at the same _ europe, it can't do that while at the same time _ europe, it can't do that while at the same time helping i europe, it can't do that while at the same time helping toi at the same time helping to fuel— at the same time helping to fuel the _ at the same time helping to fuel the biggest— at the same time helping to fuel the biggest threat i at the same time helping to fuel the biggest threat to i fuel the biggest threat to european _ fuel the biggest threat to european security- fuel the biggest threat to european security since l fuel the biggest threat to i european security since the fuel the biggest threat to - european security since the end of the _ european security since the end of the cold _ european security since the end of the cold war. _ european security since the end of the cold war. is _ european security since the end of the cold war.— of the cold war. is this a binary choice _ of the cold war. is this a binary choice for - of the cold war. is this a binary choice for xi i of the cold war. is this a i binary choice for xi jinping? does binary choice for xijinping? does he see this as a choice between the west and russia on this war? ., ., , ., this war? no, he does not. xi jinin: this war? no, he does not. xi jinping is _ this war? no, he does not. xi jinping is trying _ this war? no, he does not. xi jinping is trying to _ this war? no, he does not. xi jinping is trying to have i this war? no, he does not. xi jinping is trying to have his i jinping is trying to have his cake — jinping is trying to have his cake and _ jinping is trying to have his cake and eat _ jinping is trying to have his cake and eat it— jinping is trying to have his cake and eat it too. - jinping is trying to have his cake and eat it too. what i jinping is trying to have his. cake and eat it too. what we saw — cake and eat it too. what we saw before _ cake and eat it too. what we saw before putin _ cake and eat it too. what we saw before putin came... i cake and eat it too. what we i saw before putin came... before the putin— saw before putin came... before the putin state _ saw before putin came... before the putin state visit _ saw before putin came... before the putin state visit to _ saw before putin came... before the putin state visit to china i the putin state visit to china was — the putin state visit to china was a — the putin state visit to china was a xi _ the putin state visit to china was a xi jinping _ the putin state visit to china was a xi jinping tour- the putin state visit to china was a xi jinping tour of- was a xi jinping tour of europe _ was a xi jinping tour of europe. throughout. was a xi jinping tour of. europe. throughout that was a xi jinping tour of- europe. throughout that tour, he was — europe. throughout that tour, he was going _ europe. throughout that tour, he was going to _ europe. throughout that tour, he was going to countries i europe. throughout that tour, l he was going to countries where xi thought — he was going to countries where xi thought they— he was going to countries where xi thought they would _ he was going to countries where xi thought they would be - he was going to countries where xi thought they would be more i xi thought they would be more sympathetic _ xi thought they would be more sympathetic to _ xi thought they would be more sympathetic to china _ xi thought they would be more sympathetic to china or- sympathetic to china or countries _ sympathetic to china or countries where - sympathetic to china or countries where he i sympathetic to china or- countries where he thought he'd be better— countries where he thought he'd be better able _ countries where he thought he'd be better able to _ countries where he thought he'd be better able to make - countries where he thought he'd be better able to make the i be better able to make the chinese _ be better able to make the

chinese case. _ be better able to make the chinese case. what- be better able to make the chinese case. what we're i be better able to make the i chinese case. what we're seeing now with — chinese case. what we're seeing now with putin's _ chinese case. what we're seeing now with putin's visit _ chinese case. what we're seeing now with putin's visit to - chinese case. what we're seeing now with putin's visit to china i now with putin's visit to china is that— now with putin's visit to china is that in— now with putin's visit to china is that in the _ now with putin's visit to china is that in the joint _ now with putin's visit to china is that in the joint press - is that in the joint press statement, _ is that in the joint press statement, we - is that in the joint press statement, we do - is that in the joint press statement, we do see l is that in the joint press - statement, we do see language about— statement, we do see language about ukraine. _ statement, we do see language about ukraine. the _ statement, we do see language about ukraine. the chinese - statement, we do see language| about ukraine. the chinese side said both — about ukraine. the chinese side said both countries _ about ukraine. the chinese side said both countries are - about ukraine. the chinese side said both countries are opposedj said both countries are opposed to drawn-out _ said both countries are opposed to drawn—out conflict. _ said both countries are opposed to drawn—out conflict. one - said both countries are opposed to drawn—out conflict. one wayl to drawn—out conflict. one way china _ to drawn—out conflict. one way china is— to drawn—out conflict. one way china is playing _ to drawn—out conflict. one way china is playing this— to drawn—out conflict. one way china is playing this and - china is playing this and trying _ china is playing this and trying to— china is playing this and trying to balance - china is playing this and trying to balance this i trying to balance this relationship - trying to balance this relationship with- trying to balance this i relationship with russia trying to balance this - relationship with russia as well— relationship with russia as wett as— relationship with russia as welt as the _ relationship with russia as well as the relationship . relationship with russia as i well as the relationship with the west— well as the relationship with the west is— well as the relationship with the west is to _ well as the relationship with the west is to the _ well as the relationship with the west is to the extent. the west is to the extent possible _ the west is to the extent possible - _ the west is to the extent possible — and _ the west is to the extent possible — and in- the west is to the extent possible — and in a - the west is to the extent possible — and in a very. possible — and in a very limited _ possible — and in a very limited way— possible — and in a very limited way with - possible — and in a very limited way with russia possible — and in a very. limited way with russia — possible — and in a very- limited way with russia — is encouraging _ limited way with russia — is encouraging russia - limited way with russia — is encouraging russia to - limited way with russia — is encouraging russia to try. limited way with russia — is| encouraging russia to try to end — encouraging russia to try to end the _ encouraging russia to try to end the conflict _ encouraging russia to try to end the conflict as - encouraging russia to try to end the conflict as soon - encouraging russia to try to end the conflict as soon as i end the conflict as soon as possible _ end the conflict as soon as possible. china _ end the conflict as soon as possible. china recognisesj end the conflict as soon as - possible. china recognises that as tong — possible. china recognises that as tong as— possible. china recognises that as tong as the _ possible. china recognises that as long as the ukraine - possible. china recognises that as long as the ukraine conflicti as long as the ukraine conflict is ongoing. _ as long as the ukraine conflict is ongoing. it _ as long as the ukraine conflict is ongoing, it will— as long as the ukraine conflict is ongoing, it will have - as long as the ukraine conflict is ongoing, it will have to - is ongoing, it will have to face _ is ongoing, it will have to face the _ is ongoing, it will have to face the issue _ is ongoing, it will have to face the issue about - is ongoing, it will have to face the issue about its . face the issue about its relationship _ face the issue about its relationship with- face the issue about its| relationship with russia face the issue about its - relationship with russia with that of— relationship with russia with that of the _ relationship with russia with that of the united _ relationship with russia with that of the united states - relationship with russia with| that of the united states and west! — that of the united states and west! interesting. _ that of the united states and west! interesting. michael?| that of the united states and | west! interesting. michael? i west! interesting. michael? [ think west! interesting. michael? think it's important to point out how much pressure xi is under right now. his economy, you know, has been tanking. the trip to europe was something of an embarrassment... trip to europe was something of an embarrassment. . ._ an embarrassment... that's right- - - _ an embarrassment... that's right... compared _ an embarrassment... that's right... compared to - an embarrassment... that's right... compared to his - an embarrassment... that's| right... compared to his last tri in right... compared to his last trip in 2019. _ right... compared to his last

trip in 2019. he _ right... compared to his last trip in 2019. he visited - right... compared to his last| trip in 2019. he visited serbia and hungary and had a brief tete—a—tete with the president of france. there weren't any deliverables, just is as there weren't in this visit with xi. no programmes were announced. the thing putin really wants is this pipeline, the siberia pipeline, which there was no news about at all. it's not clear that anything is happening there. the point is that xi is in a tough spot. he wants to be seen — and all the signals are very positive, the smile and the hug at the end — but there's not really a great deal happening other than some technological assistance going to russia right now. can technological assistance going to russia right now.— to russia right now. can i follow up _ to russia right now. can i follow up on _ to russia right now. can i follow up on that. - to russia right now. can i follow up on that. you . to russia right now. can i - follow up on that. you authored a oli follow up on that. you authored a policy asking _ follow up on that. you authored a policy asking why _ follow up on that. you authored a policy asking why china - follow up on that. you authored a policy asking why china hawks are exaggerating the threat from beijing and you called it the pundit industrial complex and said it had propagated a stand—off with china. what do you intend to say here? that china is not as much of a rival to the us as we perceive it to be? i to the us as we perceive it to be? ~' , .,

to the us as we perceive it to be? ~' , be? i think if you compare this to the first _ be? i think if you compare this to the first cold _ be? i think if you compare this to the first cold war, - be? i think if you compare this to the first cold war, you - to the first cold war, you don't have these great powers trying to create an entirely alternative international system as the soviet union once did. xi has wanted to do that with the belt and road initiative and other initiatives. they're not doing terribly well. in many cases, they're backfiring. but my point would be that this is a dangerous situation. i'm not trying to play it down, particularly over the issue of taiwan, but it doesn't have to be a cold war. it can be a cold peace, which is what i think it still is to some degree, which is two rival nations competing but not necessarily militarily. it doesn't have to go in that direction. it doesn't have to go in that direction-— direction. michelle, you've said you — direction. michelle, you've said you see _ direction. michelle, you've said you see the _ direction. michelle, you've said you see the need - direction. michelle, you've said you see the need for. said you see the need for tariffs to be in place but also for the us to play on the offensive?— for the us to play on the offensive? ~ _, , ., offensive? when it comes to the china threat. _ offensive? when it comes to the china threat, you _ offensive? when it comes to the china threat, you don't - offensive? when it comes to the china threat, you don't have - offensive? when it comes to the china threat, you don't have to l china threat, you don't have to take _ china threat, you don't have to take pundits' words for it. you have _ take pundits' words for it. you have to — take pundits' words for it. you have to take xi jinping's words for it — have to take xi jinping's words for it hes— have to take xi jinping's words for it. he's been clear that china _ for it. he's been clear that china wants to dominate in criticat— china wants to dominate in critical and emerging technologies, including ai, by 2030 —

technologies, including ai, by 2030. the china standards 2035 ihitiative — 2030. the china standards 2035 initiative makes clear they want — initiative makes clear they want to _ initiative makes clear they want to set standards for strategic industries. xi jinpihg _ strategic industries. xi jinping and putin waging war in ukraine — jinping and putin waging war in ukraine. these are not leaders and countries you want setting standards for strategic industries that matter to our economic— industries that matter to our economic prosperity as well as our national security and our values — our national security and our values like freedom and the rule — values like freedom and the rule of— values like freedom and the rule of law. it's - rule of law. it's not a matter of opinion. it's — it's not a matter of opinion. it's a — it's not a matter of opinion. it's a matter of fact. the question— it's a matter of fact. the question is what are we going to do— question is what are we going to do about it? we have to be less _ to do about it? we have to be less concerned with how we're responding to china — and these tariffs _ responding to china — and these tariffs are — responding to china — and these tariffs are a good example this week— tariffs are a good example this week - — tariffs are a good example this week — but more concerned with what _ week — but more concerned with what are — week — but more concerned with what are we doing to go on the offensive — what are we doing to go on the offensive and to compete and to win to _ offensive and to compete and to win to make sure we are innovating faster, smarter and tfetter— innovating faster, smarter and better than china and other authoritarian adversaries, because _ authoritarian adversaries, because we need to be setting the norms and the standards for how these — the norms and the standards for how these industries and how these — how these industries and how these technologies shape our lives — these technologies shape our lives. gk. and in orderto these technologies shape our lives. gk. and in order to win lives. 0k. and in order to win a competition, _ lives. oil. and in order to win a competition, you have to recognise that you're in one, and — recognise that you're in one, and we're _ recognise that you're in one, and we're in one.— recognise that you're in one, and we're in one. bonny, i want to quickly _ and we're in one. bonny, i want to quickly have _ and we're in one. bonny, i want to quickly have your— and we're in one. bonny, i want to quickly have your take - and we're in one. bonny, i want to quickly have your take on - to quickly have your take on this as well? 50 to quickly have your take on

this as well?— this as well? so china in almost _ this as well? so china in almost all _ this as well? so china in almost all its _ this as well? so china in | almost all its statements recently _ almost all its statements recently - _ almost all its statements recently — including - almost all its statements recently — including in i almost all its statementsi recently — including in the most _ recently — including in the most recent— recently — including in the most recent china—russiaj recently — including in the - most recent china—russia joint statement _ most recent china—russia joint statement - _ most recent china—russia joint statement — references - most recent china—russia joint statement — references the - most recent china—russia joint statement — references the usj statement — references the us cold _ statement — references the us cold war— statement — references the us cold war mentality. _ statement — references the us cold war mentality. but - statement — references the us cold war mentality. but i - statement — references the usj cold war mentality. but i think when _ cold war mentality. but i think when they— cold war mentality. but i think when they talk— cold war mentality. but i think when they talk about - cold war mentality. but i think when they talk about the - cold war mentality. but i think when they talk about the us i when they talk about the us cold — when they talk about the us cold war— when they talk about the us cold war mentality, - when they talk about the us cold war mentality, you - when they talk about the usi cold war mentality, you have when they talk about the us - cold war mentality, you have to really _ cold war mentality, you have to really believe _ cold war mentality, you have to really believe that _ cold war mentality, you have to really believe that they - really believe that they actually _ really believe that they actually also _ really believe that they actually also are - really believe that they i actually also are believing really believe that they - actually also are believing in this mentality.so _ actually also are believing in this mentality.so when - actually also are believing in this mentality.so when you i actually also are believing in i this mentality.so when you talk to a number— this mentality.so when you talk to a number of— this mentality.so when you talk to a number of chinese - this mentality.so when you talk| to a number of chinese scholars as well— to a number of chinese scholars as well as — to a number of chinese scholars as well as chinese _ to a number of chinese scholars as well as chinese officials, - to a number of chinese scholars as well as chinese officials, i. as well as chinese officials, i think— as well as chinese officials, i think xi _ as well as chinese officials, i think xi jinping _ as well as chinese officials, i think xi jinping himself- think xi jinping himself probably— think xi jinping himself probably worries - think xi jinping himself probably worries and l think xi jinping himself. probably worries and has pretty _ probably worries and has pretty. i— probably worries and has pretty. i probably- probably worries and has pretty. i probably has - probably worries and has i pretty. i probably has pretty dark— pretty. i probably has pretty dark assumptions _ pretty. i probably has pretty dark assumptions of - pretty. i probably has pretty dark assumptions of what i pretty. i probably has prettyi dark assumptions of what us intentions _ dark assumptions of what us intentions are _ dark assumptions of what us intentions are for— dark assumptions of what us intentions are for china. - intentions are for china. interesting. _ intentions are for china. interesting.— intentions are for china. interestina. . . , interesting. when china says that we have _ interesting. when china says that we have a _ interesting. when china says that we have a cold - interesting. when china says that we have a cold war- that we have a cold war mentality. _ that we have a cold war mentality, i— that we have a cold war mentality, i think- that we have a cold war mentality, i think they i that we have a cold war- mentality, i think they have mentality, ! think they have their— mentality, i think they have their own cold _ mentality, ! think they have their own cold war- mentality, i think they have| their own cold war mentality and they— their own cold war mentality and they believe _ their own cold war mentality and they believe that - their own cold war mentality and they believe that we - their own cold war mentality and they believe that we are| and they believe that we are already— and they believe that we are already in— and they believe that we are already in a _ and they believe that we are already in a cold _ and they believe that we are already in a cold war - and they believe that we are| already in a cold war period. yeah, — already in a cold war period. yeah, i— already in a cold war period. yeah, i mean _ already in a cold war period. yeah, i mean i _ already in a cold war period. yeah, i mean i would - already in a cold war period. yeah, i mean i would just. already in a cold war period. | yeah, i mean i would just say already in a cold war period. . yeah, i mean i would just say — i don't disagree with most of what was said. i would just say that, first of all, in terms of maintaining the trump tariffs, biden has done that, and he's added the additional $18 billion wejust heard added the additional $18 billion we just heard about. jake sullivan, the national security adviser, described this as a very high fence around a relatively small yard,

by which he means most of the us—china trade is still going on. itjust set a record again last year. so you have all of this economic integration while at the same time you have a pretty tough policy protecting us hi—technology. biden has set “p us hi—technology. biden has set up a whole industrial policy to do that, including the chips act, as well as a very aggressive policy, including coming closer than any president before in pledging to defend taiwan. i president before in pledging to defend taiwan.— defend taiwan. i can't believe i'm defend taiwan. i can't believe i'm going _ defend taiwan. i can't believe i'm going to _ defend taiwan. i can't believe i'm going to ask _ defend taiwan. i can't believe i'm going to ask you - defend taiwan. i can't believe i'm going to ask you all- defend taiwan. i can't believe i'm going to ask you all aboutj i'm going to ask you all about taiwan withjust about i'm going to ask you all about taiwan with just about a minute left. let's go around pretty quickly in 20 or 30 seconds each, is this the biggest danger in the relationship? it danger in the relationship? it certainly is, but it's important to note that delegation biden is ending for the inauguration of the president on monday is the same as he sent before — former, not current, officials so as not to be too provocative to china. michelle?— be too provocative to china. michelle? , , . ., michelle? this is a multifront relationship _ michelle? this is a multifront relationship and _ michelle? this is a multifront relationship and the - michelle? this is a multifront relationship and the contest l relationship and the contest with— relationship and the contest with china and with

authoritarianism in general is military, _ authoritarianism in general is military, economic, diplomatic and cultural and technology is at the — and cultural and technology is at the crossroads of that. so the more _ at the crossroads of that. so the more that we can compete and lead — the more that we can compete and lead and worry about what the united states is doing to lead. — the united states is doing to lead, versus what china is doing _ lead, versus what china is doing and what the nature of our relationship is, the morwell placed we'll be to enhance our own security and prosperity. enhance our own security and prosperity-— enhance our own security and prosperity. and bonny, i want to net prosperity. and bonny, i want to get your — prosperity. and bonny, i want to get your view _ prosperity. and bonny, i want to get your view on _ prosperity. and bonny, i want to get your view on the - prosperity. and bonny, i want| to get your view on the taiwan aspect of this as well?- aspect of this as well? sure. i don't exoect _ aspect of this as well? sure. i don't expect president - aspect of this as well? sure. i don't expect president lai - aspect of this as well? sure. i don't expect president lai to l don't expect president lai to say anything _ don't expect president lai to say anything that _ don't expect president lai to say anything that would - don't expect president lai to say anything that would be l say anything that would be provocative _ say anything that would be provocative or _ say anything that would be provocative or that - say anything that would be provocative or that we - say anything that would be l provocative or that we would view — provocative or that we would view as — provocative or that we would view as provocative - provocative or that we would view as provocative in - provocative or that we would view as provocative in the i view as provocative in the inauguration _ view as provocative in the inauguration speech. - view as provocative in the inauguration speech. the | view as provocative in the - inauguration speech. the ball is in — inauguration speech. the ball is in china's_ inauguration speech. the ball is in china's court— inauguration speech. the ball is in china's court as - inauguration speech. the ball is in china's court as to- inauguration speech. the ball is in china's court as to how. is in china's court as to how much — is in china's court as to how much they— is in china's court as to how much they want _ is in china's court as to how much they want to - is in china's court as to how much they want to react - is in china's court as to how much they want to react or| much they want to react or overreact _ much they want to react or overreact to _ much they want to react or overreact to what - much they want to react or overreact to what he - much they want to react or overreact to what he may i much they want to react or. overreact to what he may say much they want to react or - overreact to what he may say in the coming _ overreact to what he may say in the coming days! _ overreact to what he may say in the coming days! we've - overreact to what he may say in the coming days! we've run- overreact to what he may say in the coming days! we've run of. the coming days! we've run of time, — the coming days! we've run of time, unfortunately, - the coming days! we've run of time, unfortunately, but- the coming days! we've run of time, unfortunately, but a - time, unfortunately, but a really— time, unfortunately, but a really interesting - time, unfortunately, but a. really interesting discussion with— really interesting discussion with all— really interesting discussion with att of— really interesting discussion with all of you. _ really interesting discussion with all of you. michelle, i with all of you. michelle, bonny— with all of you. michelle, bonny and _ with all of you. michelle, bonny and michael, - with all of you. michelle, i bonny and michael, thank with all of you. michelle, - bonny and michael, thank you so much _ bonny and michael, thank you so much for— bonny and michael, thank you so much forjoining _ bonny and michael, thank you so much forjoining us _ bonny and michael, thank you so much forjoining us tonight. - us zoos may soon be panellists as preparations are under way for the last zoo with bears to say by this fall. officials at zoo atlanta say they are set to

return a pair along with their american—born twins to china. china has a history of donating the trears— china has a history of donating the bears as _ china has a history of donating the bears as part _ china has a history of donating the bears as part of— china has a history of donating the bears as part of its - the bears as part of its diplomacy _ the bears as part of its diplomacy. some - the bears as part of its - diplomacy. some observers the bears as part of its _ diplomacy. some observers have used _ diplomacy. some observers have used the — diplomacy. some observers have used the cuddly _ diplomacy. some observers have used the cuddly creatures - diplomacy. some observers have used the cuddly creatures to - used the cuddly creatures to unofficially _ used the cuddly creatures to unofficially gauge _ used the cuddly creatures to unofficially gauge the - used the cuddly creatures to unofficially gauge the state i used the cuddly creatures to. unofficially gauge the state of us-china _ unofficially gauge the state of us—china relations. _ unofficially gauge the state of us-china relations.— us-china relations. while vafious us-china relations. while various us _ us-china relations. while various us zoos _ us-china relations. while various us zoos have - us-china relations. while - various us zoos have returned their bears to china in recent years, including memphis and washington dc, not all hope is lost. a new set of pandas could arrive at the san francisco and san diego zoos as soon as this summer. that was our special show here on bbc. thank you so much for watching. stay with us. we're back with headlines at the top of the next hour. hello there. it was another day of contrasts across the uk on friday, with some of the bluest of the skies, the highest of the temperatures across northern scotland — 2a celsius in altnaharra. compare that to just 13, 1a degrees for some north sea—facing coasts, plenty of fret and haar lasting

for much of the day and a cool onshore breeze, too. now, there will be more mist and fog forming through the weekend, a weekend of sunny spells and some showers. but there will be plenty of dry weather, with a large area of high pressure out in the atlantic starting to nose in. low pressure over the near continent, and that's going to send some rain tracking westwards across southern england as we head through saturday morning. otherwise, a dry start to the day. it's mild. there'll be plenty of mist and fog, general murk and some sea fog, too, out towards those north sea coasts. now, all of that is going to be burnt back by the warm, strong may sunshine. plenty of that throughout the day, lots of dry weather, too. the rain in the south will gradually clear away, but some heavy, thundery downpours perhaps developing for western areas. more isolated showers further east. here, it should stay largely dry. and it's cloudier and cooler across northern ireland and northern scotland. still cool again for those north sea—facing coasts,

maybe 2a degrees for the central belt of scotland. otherwise, temperatures just slightly above the seasonal average — high teens, low 20s. and all of that mist and murk, sea fog willjust reform again as we head through saturday night into sunday morning, a slightly fresher feel to the morning. and again, that mist and the fog first thing is going to start to burn back with all of the sunshine developing. again, it's quite cloudy, i think, towards parts of northern scotland. some of that mist and fog could gradually sink southwards down towards parts of northeast england as we head throughout the day. but there will be a lot of sunshine around, a scattering of showers again, perhaps towards the south of england and again across southwest scotland. once again, it's cooler and cloudier for northern scotland. should be some sunny spells developing across northern ireland. monday is looking largely dry for most. again, some mist and fog, some isolated showers, but then this area of low pressure is going to start to move in from the near continent as we head through tuesday and wednesday. so through the middle parts of next week, it could turn rather unsettled and a little cooler again,

but temperatures building again perhaps by the end of the week.

voice-over: this is bbc news. we will have the headlines for you at the top of the hour, which is straight after this programme. a population of 1.4 billion.

one of the largest economies in the world. poverty, though still rife, is in steady decline. it's a place so full of life, of soul, of hope, of progress. but all that is under threat. as our planet warms, india is predicted to become one of the first countries in the world where temperatures will top the safe limit for people simply resting in the shade. and it could start happening in the next decade. it will impact the lives and livelihoods of the poorest first, who will have no choice but to continue working in the dangerous heat. translation: in the hot - weather, the sun burns my body.

quite... it is high right now. we will have more kidney disease.