to the united states congress and he committed these lies for his own benefit. the defence continues their attack against michael cohen, of course, because he is the star witness, the one on which the outcome of this trial really hinges, because he is the only one who directly ties donald trump to the business falsification alleged scheme. the jury just the juryjust might the jury just might believe the juryjust might believe michael cohen _ the juryjust might believe michael cohen and — the juryjust might believe michael cohen and if— the juryjust might believe michael cohen and if they— the juryjust might believe michael cohen and if they believe - the juryjust might believe michael cohen and if they believe him, - the juryjust might believe michael cohen and if they believe him, it . the juryjust might believe michael cohen and if they believe him, it is over~ _ cohen and if they believe him, it is over~ micheel— cohen and if they believe him, it is over. michael cohen _ cohen and if they believe him, it is over. michael cohen has _ cohen and if they believe him, it is over. michael cohen has given- over. michael cohen has given testimony— over. michael cohen has given testimony that— over. michael cohen has given testimony that if— over. michael cohen has given testimony that if believed, - over. michael cohen has given- testimony that if believed, donald trump _ testimony that if believed, donald trump very— testimony that if believed, donald trump very well— testimony that if believed, donald trump very well knew _ testimony that if believed, donald trump very well knew what - testimony that if believed, donald trump very well knew what the i trump very well knew what the payments — trump very well knew what the payments were _ trump very well knew what the payments were for. _ joining me tonight are the former conservative mpjustine greening and david litt, author and former speech writer for president barack obama. looking forward to talking to our panel this evening.

first, the latest headlines... a man has been charged with the attempted murder of the slovak prime minister, robert fico. the politician is now able to speak, officials have said, but is still in a very serious condition after being shot several times yesterday. slovakia's interior minister described the suspect as a lone wolf who opposed the government. china and russia have put on a display of unity and mutual support during a meeting of their two leaders in beijing. xijinping and the vladimir putin signed a statement that promised to deepen their countries�* relationship. trade between china and russia has surged since moscow's invasion of ukraine. south africa has asked the united nations highest court to order an immediate halt to israel's offensive on rafah in southern gaza. today's hearing in the hague is part of a case accusing israel of carrying out genocide. israel has dismissed the allegation as baseless. the european union has begun a formal investigation into the social media firms facebook and instagram over allegations they may be failing to protect children.

their parent company has been accused of using algorithms which encourage addictive behaviour. good evening. before he became president, there was no—one perhaps as close to donald trump as his fixer michael cohen. the two of them talked daily about matters trump wanted cohen to handle. the da in new york has bet big that cohen can make in this trial that the former president was directly involved in a scheme to conceal a hush money payment on the eve of the 2016 election. a string of witnesses have testified that money was paid to kill the stories. but only cohen could provide evidence that trump directed the payments and then knowingly lied on the business forms to conceal campaign finance crimes. putting him on the stand was a gamble from the start. cohen — who served prison time for multiple crimes, including for lying to congress in 2018 — has significant credibility issues.

and today the defence spent all of their time picking at his credibility. the evidence we've heard today has once again been all about trying to undermine michael cohen's integrity in front of the jury. to some extent, they have a fairwind behind it. the prosecution did much of thatjob for them. and it really hinges on these sort of alternate views of michael cohen's character and his motivation. there is a significant question remaining. when prosecutors rests tonight, will the defence call donald trump to testify? will they call any further witness? or will they make the bold claim that the state of new york has failed to prove donald trump's guilt beyond reasonable doubt and move straight to closing submissions? the former president's closest congressional allies have never questioned his innocence. there is literally no branch of government that michael cohen is not lied to.

he lied to investigators. he lied to the judge who sentenced him. he lied to the united states congress, and he committed these lies for his own benefit. the radical left wants president trump to simply go away. and if president trump just went away, this would all go away as well. they do not want him to be in this race. they know that he is the number one candidate for president of the united states. let's bring in our panel. extraordinary over the last two days of this trial, tuesday and today on thursday that we have seen this procession of supporters from congress coming out to support donald trump. including the speaker who was there on tuesday. a man who's often spoken about morals in society, coming to support someone who is accused of covering up sex with an adult film star by making false payments. what have you made of it? ., ~ i. .,

false payments. what have you made of it? ., ~ ., ., ., of it? thank you for having me on and i think— of it? thank you for having me on and i think you — of it? thank you for having me on and i think you are _ of it? thank you for having me on and i think you are right. - of it? thank you for having me on and i think you are right. it - and i think you are right. it is really bizarre it not in a good way moment for america and i think it is something, frankly, that has not fully sunk in in our country yet. it is one of the things that republicans have spoken about is the idea of a two—tiered justice system. that is the talking point for saying that donald trump has been persecuted. what you are actually seeing is the donald trump is the beneficiary of a two—tierjustice system. they use some of the most powerful people in the country coming to the courthouse to be there for him and ideally trying to violate the gag order placed on him to see if they can persuade a juror to see if they can persuade a juror to get a hung jury and mess with the trial. but imagine any other criminal defendant. they don't get this kind of treatment. i think it is one of the signs ofjust how far republicans are willing to go to torpedo american institutions including those responsible for law and orderjust to help one man.

george conway, the lawyer, husband of kelly and conway who is of course close to donald trump made a interesting point this week saying, the alleged lies of people versus trump strike at the core of the moral to try since and trump knows it. they are lies allegedly meant to cover up a tawdry man's tawdry behaviour. the case embodies donald trump and for that reason, i think it deeply disturbing. there are a lot of people around him that actually think that it is starting to get at the president, the former president, and it is starting to show. . , president, and it is starting to show. ., , , ., president, and it is starting to show. ., , , ., ., show. certainly if you look at him in the court _ show. certainly if you look at him in the court room _ show. certainly if you look at him in the court room he _ show. certainly if you look at him in the court room he looks - in the court room he looks absolutely tired and washed out, frankly — absolutely tired and washed out, frankly i— absolutely tired and washed out, frankly. i do think that there is this issue _ frankly. i do think that there is this issue that donald trump has thrives— this issue that donald trump has thrives on— this issue that donald trump has thrives on breaking rules. if you are a _ thrives on breaking rules. if you are a politician that essentially buitds— are a politician that essentially builds your proofs are not up by doing _ builds your proofs are not up by doing that, almost the inevitable consequence is that you will break rules— consequence is that you will break rules that — consequence is that you will break rules that are lost. here he is, finding —

rules that are lost. here he is, finding himself in a courtroom where he is now— finding himself in a courtroom where he is now out of control of the process — he is now out of control of the process and in a sense happy to see what _ process and in a sense happy to see what the _ process and in a sense happy to see what the jurors ultimately think of him. testimony today, is commercially important and appeals to me _ commercially important and appeals to me like _ commercially important and appeals to me like this court case will turn on whether— to me like this court case will turn on whether people really feel probably can't believe what he says in spite _ probably can't believe what he says in spite of — probably can't believe what he says in spite of all of his proven misdemeanors in the past. i agree with what— misdemeanors in the past. i agree with what was already said, it is staggering to see elective representatives of the republican party _ representatives of the republican party as— representatives of the republican party as it were, having their say, during _ party as it were, having their say, during a _ party as it were, having their say, during a legal court case. trying to, clearly, _ during a legal court case. trying to, clearly, direct thejury during a legal court case. trying to, clearly, direct the jury in many respects— to, clearly, direct the jury in many respects in— to, clearly, direct the jury in many respects in terms of what they should — respects in terms of what they should think about this.- respects in terms of what they should think about this. there was an extraordinary _ should think about this. there was an extraordinary line _ should think about this. there was an extraordinary line in _ should think about this. there was an extraordinary line in the - should think about this. there was an extraordinary line in the new. an extraordinary line in the new york times, this is not a joke by the way, a young aide who is in court called natalie harp and hijab is to carry around a portable printer so she can provide mr trump with hard copies of mood boosting

news that she puts in front of him. and you could see him from outside of court and he is holding up these papers that he read some of the nice things that fox news presenters have said about him through the course of the day. and that is hijab, to keep up the day. and that is hijab, to keep up her his spirits so when he appears in front of television cameras, it does not show how frustrated he is been with the events of the day. that shows actually the sort of effect that is hopping on his mental state. —— having. i think there is the old pizza factoid about if a having. i think there is the old pizza factoid about if— having. i think there is the old pizza factoid about if a shark stops swimmin: pizza factoid about if a shark stops swimming it _ pizza factoid about if a shark stops swimming it will _ pizza factoid about if a shark stops swimming it will die _ pizza factoid about if a shark stops swimming it will die because - pizza factoid about if a shark stops swimming it will die because of. pizza factoid about if a shark stops swimming it will die because of it | swimming it will die because of it seems if donald trump stops being follow latter he will fall asleep. he had trouble staying awake during his criminal trial. —— stops being flattered. what is worrisome about thatis flattered. what is worrisome about that is the length, the tie all of this together, the length that other elected officials in the country are now willing to go to flatter donald trump. because he's made it clear that if he becomes president again, those people are not going to just

become standing at the courthouse, outside, that is going to be the attorney general, that will be the head of the fbi, all of these people who know that their number one job is to make donald trump happy moment to moment. not to serve any concept of the public interest. on one hand, as you say, it is almost hilarious, ridiculous and also, as we have learned of the last several years, things can be silly and terrifying simultaneously. that things can be silly and terrifying simultaneously.— things can be silly and terrifying simultaneously. that is the loyalty that david cohen _ simultaneously. that is the loyalty that david cohen has _ simultaneously. that is the loyalty that david cohen has been - simultaneously. that is the loyalty that david cohen has been talking | that david cohen has been talking about on the stand, the logo he was expecting to stand even when the fbi had written his offices. be on the circus of this trial in new york the real verdict will come in november as we reported last night. the two candidates has agreed to face off into televised debates. the first of them hosted by cnn, on 27th in atlanta. fox news polling out this morning that shows biden is behind, just. president trump leads byi point among registered voters, according to this new national poll. trump at 49% biden on 48%. although when you factor

in the other presidential candidates independents robert f kenneder and cornel west trump leads biden by 3 points among 43% to a0. there's been this debate about independenfs there's been this debate about independent�*s effect on the speed but i get in a sense thatjoe biden needs this more than donald trump, he needs to change the dynamics of this bowling and he is prepared to take a gamble to do so. i think that is exactly right- _ take a gamble to do so. i think that is exactly right. of _ take a gamble to do so. i think that is exactly right. of course - take a gamble to do so. i think that is exactly right. of course trump i is exactly right. of course trump did play— is exactly right. of course trump did play a — is exactly right. of course trump did play a part is exactly right. of course trump did playa part in is exactly right. of course trump did play a part in the republican nominee — did play a part in the republican nominee debates —— did not interest us at _ nominee debates —— did not interest us at the _ nominee debates —— did not interest us at the not — nominee debates —— did not interest us at the not because he was so far ahead _ us at the not because he was so far ahead. these debates are normally held immediately in the run—up to the presidential election. this year they will— the presidential election. this year they will be injune and the second will be _ they will be injune and the second will be in _ they will be injune and the second will be in september. of course i am here in— will be in september. of course i am here inthe— will be in september. of course i am here in the uk would have an election— here in the uk would have an election coming up as well so what you are _ election coming up as well so what you are seeing is almost an election season— you are seeing is almost an election season in— you are seeing is almost an election season in america that is notjust going _ season in america that is notjust going to — season in america that is notjust going to affect the states and how

people _ going to affect the states and how people vote there, but actually will percolate _ people vote there, but actually will percolate back into an important election— percolate back into an important election we have here in the uk as well _ election we have here in the uk as well. �* election we have here in the uk as well. . ., election we have here in the uk as well. n~ ., .,~ , election we have here in the uk as well. , , well. ask he also makes the points toda that well. ask he also makes the points today that biden _ well. ask he also makes the points today that biden always _ well. ask he also makes the points today that biden always planned to debate and he got it what you wanted to instead of the three, no live audience and plenty of time for election days, if it goes wrong. do you buy this argument that actually joe biden needed it more than trump? i thinkjoe biden needs a debate or at least would certainly benefit from one. i do not think it is for the reasons a lot of people put forward. i actually think it is simple. trump is a very unique figure and a uniquely dangerous figure. at the positionjoe biden is and is similarto figure. at the positionjoe biden is and is similar to the position barack obama was and when he ran for reelection against mitt romney, when i worked on his reelection campaign in 2012. if this election is a referendum on biden, do you think biden has done a good or backdrop, i think he has done a good job but he will probably lose that election. at this election is a choice between

joe biden and trump, who do you want to be your commander—in—chief, the leader of the country for the next four years, that i thinkjoe biden will win. so the sooner he can make that pivot and say, this is a choice between two people and they may both between two people and they may both be imperfect, but you have to choose. the sooner i think you will start to see benefit from that in the more likely he will successful at framing that race all the way through november. so the sooner he can debate the better. it through november. so the sooner he can debate the better.— can debate the better. it obviously marks the demise _ can debate the better. it obviously marks the demise of _ can debate the better. it obviously marks the demise of the _ can debate the better. it obviously. marks the demise of the committee of presidential debates who would normally organise three of these debates, i think they have done so sincejimmy carterand debates, i think they have done so sincejimmy carter and certainly as they have come a lot later. but it is interesting, one of the theories they have for staging it injune is because these days, people make their decision ahead of elections, many months out. it is baked in. maybe that is the effect of social media, i don't know but we see so many of our politicians these days that actually there is one strand of thinking that you need to get in

front of the electorate much earlier. with that apply here in the uk as well? if earlier. with that apply here in the uk as well?— earlier. with that apply here in the uk as well? if you look at what has happened this _ uk as well? if you look at what has happened this past _ uk as well? if you look at what has happened this past week _ uk as well? if you look at what has happened this past week we - uk as well? if you look at what has happened this past week we had i uk as well? if you look at what has i happened this past week we had two speeches— happened this past week we had two speeches from one from the prime minister— speeches from one from the prime minister on — speeches from one from the prime minister on national security, one today— minister on national security, one today from — minister on national security, one today from the leader of the opposition, sir keir starmer setting out six _ opposition, sir keir starmer setting out six pledges, essentially of the opposition labour party. so certainly, our election. it has already— certainly, our election. it has already kicked off. it has been under— already kicked off. it has been under way for some time. sol already kicked off. it has been under way for some time. so i think it mirrors _ under way for some time. so i think it mirrors that long, long run and that all— it mirrors that long, long run and that all voters are going to face listening — that all voters are going to face listening to would—be leaders. i think— listening to would—be leaders. i think interesting today, arguably, keir starmer's presentation was very presidential so the sense of politics— presidential so the sense of politics incredibly being about personalities as much as policies, it is about — personalities as much as policies, it is about leadership and when you trust those — it is about leadership and when you trust those leaders, whether they are authentic. i think in many respects, _ are authentic. i think in many respects, whenever you think about donald _ respects, whenever you think about donald trump, he is very much shifted — donald trump, he is very much shifted politics onto that very personal— shifted politics onto that very personal leadership style and it is

a question— personal leadership style and it is a question of leadership of notjust what they— a question of leadership of notjust what they want for their country but who _ what they want for their country but who. �* ., , ., ., what they want for their country but who. �* ., i. ., ., ,., who. i'm glad you mention labour because after— who. i'm glad you mention labour because after that _ who. i'm glad you mention labour because after that we _ who. i'm glad you mention labour because after that we will - who. i'm glad you mention labour because after that we will talk - because after that we will talk about just that. around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. let's take a look at some of the other stories in the headlines. a five—year—old boy has died after falling from a block of flats in east london. emergency services were called at around six o'clock this morning — the boy died at the scene. police say the death is being treated as unexpected but not suspicious, and say they are working to �*establish the full circumstances'. tens of thousands of people living in south devon have been told not to drink tap water without boiling it first after the outbreak of a waterborne disease. around 16 thousand homes and businesses in the brixham area are affected. they've been warned the outbreak of crypto—sporidium could last for at least a week. teenagers may be able to qualify to drive trains — under new proposals aimed

at tackling a shortage of drivers. the government is asking for views on reducing the minimum age from 20 to 18, in a consultation running untiljune. the measures have been prompted over concerns of the number of drivers set to retire in the next five years. you are watching bbc news. going by the polls, and judging by the result of the recent local elections in the uk, there is now a general presumption that labour will be forming the next government before the end of the year, but what would that mean for the future direction of the country? today, the labour leader, sir keir starmer, presented his priorities for governing, not a pledge. certainly not an ed stone, just a card, with six campaigning promises. the big change that we need to make to our country to take it forward, to improve it, to make it a better place, long—term ambitions, credible plans, fixing the fundamentals and giving an incoming government a driving

sense of purpose about the change that we want to bring about. now this is going to be hard. sticking plasters is easy. just as not work. but i've never shied away from tough decisions. i ran a public service. we changed it. we reformed it. lots of people said you could not do it, you should not do it, but we had to press on. we've changed the labour party and put it back in the service of working people. country first, party second. applause. the six commitments are — to deliver economic stability, cut nhs waiting times, launch a new border security command, set up great british energy, crack down on anti—social behaviour, and to recruit 6,500 new teachers. five of those reflect his earlier missions but the third promise on immigration is a new addition.

david, let me start with you looking in from afar with two of those pledges, if we will call them that, immigration and the economy which are top of the list in the us, but given you have been so close to barack obama and his campaigning in the past, do you think pledges, promises, individual policies make a difference to the electorate? i think policy makes more of a difference to the electorate than a lot of people who follow and cover politics at least in the us give it credit for. often when you ask voters, they say, we actually don't know but the candidates stand for because they don't live and breathe the stuff the way that those in washington, dc may. one of the most effective ads that president obama ran in the 2012 campaign was just him speaking to the camera about what he hoped to do in a second term. overand what he hoped to do in a second term. over and over again, what he hoped to do in a second term. overand overagain, in what he hoped to do in a second term. over and over again, in focus grouping, i remember hearing people say, wow, i have not heard this before which, if you work on a

campaign at all, we have been saying this for month. but it is really hard to break through, partly because it is sometimes less exciting and edgy. but it really makes a difference. just exciting and edgy. but it really makes a difference. just before the break ou makes a difference. just before the break you suggested _ makes a difference. just before the break you suggested that _ makes a difference. just before the break you suggested that a - makes a difference. just before the break you suggested that a lot - makes a difference. just before the break you suggested that a lot is i break you suggested that a lot is down to personalities so i want to show you some pictures. first of all a picture with him in the shadow cabinet. notice everybody there is in suit and tie except for the leader. who is in rolled up shirtsleeves, open neck and look at that. it looks very similar to tony blair, 1997. so there is clearly a play here, isn't there, to try and make sure that people attach the policy to the personality? definitely. i think what has happened is in the past, keir starmer— happened is in the past, keir starmer has been accused of being dull and _ starmer has been accused of being dull and boring and he does not have the charisma that tony blair had went— the charisma that tony blair had went was— the charisma that tony blair had went was the leader of the opposition trying to become a leader back in— opposition trying to become a leader back in 1997. sol

opposition trying to become a leader back in 1997. so i think the labour back in1997. so i think the labour party— back in1997. so i think the labour party is— back in 1997. so i think the labour party is quite conscious there is still some — party is quite conscious there is still some work to be done on people knowing _ still some work to be done on people knowing who keir starmer is, getting to like _ knowing who keir starmer is, getting to like him _ knowing who keir starmer is, getting to like him and feeling that he can trust _ to like him and feeling that he can trust him — to like him and feeling that he can trust him walking into number ten. at the _ trust him walking into number ten. at the same time, they also believe in the _ at the same time, they also believe in the nuts— at the same time, they also believe in the nuts and bolts, what has he actually _ in the nuts and bolts, what has he actually going to do. lest are they set out _ actually going to do. lest are they set out some clear missions for the country. _ set out some clear missions for the country. five — set out some clear missions for the country, five missions as he said covering — country, five missions as he said covering health, education and the economy — covering health, education and the economy. but in a sense, what they're — economy. but in a sense, what they're trying to do today is get more _ they're trying to do today is get more specific about, well, what is on that— more specific about, well, what is on that agenda.— on that agenda. when you look at secifics, on that agenda. when you look at specifics. and _ on that agenda. when you look at specifics, and you _ on that agenda. when you look at specifics, and you look _ on that agenda. when you look at specifics, and you look at - on that agenda. when you look at specifics, and you look at what i on that agenda. when you look atj specifics, and you look at what he pledged when he became leader, he talked about high income tax to the top 5% of orders, that is gone, abolishing tuition fees, that is gone, a green a new deal and a flash of 28 billion pounds per package thatis of 28 billion pounds per package that is gone, supporting, ownership of our rural airways and water, he has told that he would nationalise

the national big six energies so part of that is gone so that it is not specific it may be intentionally so as david hasjust not specific it may be intentionally so as david has just set you want to get policy out in front of people early and you need to keep talking about it and it and it takes months to do so, but as you say, it is the specifics, what to test the promises against. specifics, what to test the promises a . ainst. ., , , against. indeed. it was interesting listenin: against. indeed. it was interesting listening to _ against. indeed. it was interesting listening to them _ against. indeed. it was interesting listening to them lay _ against. indeed. it was interesting listening to them lay out - against. indeed. it was interesting listening to them lay out things i listening to them lay out things today— listening to them lay out things today about first steps would be delivered, when to be over the course — delivered, when to be over the course of— delivered, when to be over the course of parliament or earlier what was the _ course of parliament or earlier what was the process of getting there. my senses _ was the process of getting there. my senses of— was the process of getting there. my senses of what we have heard from labour _ senses of what we have heard from labour may— senses of what we have heard from labour may not be enough to win but maybe _ labour may not be enough to win but maybe not— labour may not be enough to win but maybe not enough to govern —— may be enough _ maybe not enough to govern —— may be enough to— maybe not enough to govern —— may be enough to win — maybe not enough to govern —— may be enough to win. and ultimately the test of— enough to win. and ultimately the test of an— enough to win. and ultimately the test of an incoming labour government is whether it has a plan to govern _ government is whether it has a plan to govern successfully. as a big step _ to govern successfully. as a big step forward for labour today, no doubt _ step forward for labour today, no doubt about that. i'm not surprised the conservatives are attacking him for expressing... the conservatives are attacking him for expressing. . ._ for expressing... plenty of broken romises for expressing... plenty of broken promises and _ for expressing... plenty of broken promises and the _ for expressing... plenty of broken promises and the 2019 _ for expressing... plenty of broken promises and the 2019 manifesto | for expressing... plenty of broken i promises and the 2019 manifesto and perhaps he will go through those on another day. i want to pick up one

point before we move on, somebody i think robert made the point today that, he is strategizing —— straddling a strategy talk about workers' rights and unions yesterday, but he came out at that meeting is smoking to jamie dimon a top thinker in the united states. i think some people will say that is what promax have to do but it isn't hard to struggle those two horses when you are on the left —— straddle. i when you are on the left -- straddle-— when you are on the left -- straddle. , ., _ _ straddle. i will start by saying i am not straddle. i will start by saying i am rrot at _ straddle. i will start by saying i am not at all _ straddle. i will start by saying i am not at all a _ straddle. i will start by saying i am not at all a uk _ straddle. i will start by saying i am not at all a uk politics i straddle. i will start by saying i l am not at all a uk politics expert but i think when a candidate or party is leading in the polls, it is a moment when you sort of say, we want to change, but we also don't want to change, but we also don't want change that is so threatening that it screws up this nice advantage that we have. so i think that purely from a political standpoint, it makes sense to me, that you are seeing somebody start to try and build coalitions. i think thatis to try and build coalitions. i think that is something that change candidates traditionally do once it seems like people want the change that they are selling. because then

the only thing that can mess that up is if people start to say, well, thatis is if people start to say, well, that is too much change. so i think if you can give us a look early coalition building which you make it after a coalition ordinarily it is a way of outflanking your opponents moving up it's the middle. for someone _ moving up it's the middle. for someone who _ moving up it's the middle. for someone who is _ moving up it's the middle. for someone who is not an expert on the uk politics because he certainly building the broadest coalition and thatis building the broadest coalition and that is may be why we are not getting specifics at this moment and he's trying appealed to as many people as possible. another thing i want to talk about since we are on british politics rishi sunak was challenged on the early release of dangerous criminals on on wednesday, the prime minister, rishi sunak, was challenged over the early release of dangerous criminals under a scheme aimed at easing overcrowding injails. in short, the prisons are full. it's a problem familiar to the united states. in fact the us locks up more people per capita than any other nation on earth. nearly 2 million people are behind bars. what we need are ways to reduce the prison populaton. by ending the cycle of reoffending.

one problem recently identified was the number of inmates who are neuro diverse what are we talking about? well typically conditions like autism, adhd, or learning difficulties. pentonville prison in north london has begun trialling a neuro diverse unit in a remand setting, bringing together prisoners with complex needs in one place. staff say as a result there's less violence, less self harm, fewer staff are going sick. the bbc�*s lucy watkinson was given exclusive access. birdsong. birdsong and bright leds. so this is the sensory room. this prison cell has had a spectacular makeover. this helps if people are having a major crisis. it's a place used by some to decompress. we had one guy — he would go mad, he would start trying to fight staff. we put him in here — within 20 minutes, half an hour, back to normal. staff here think they're on to something. we have the proof here that it's working. this room and our landing, it's amazing. if you think back to that last interaction we had, and then, like... i'm not banging the door, | screaming and shouting... stephen's a regular user of the sensory room. he has adhd, dyslexia, learning difficulties, and a heroin addiction. for 20 years, he's been on a constant rinse and repeat

cycle, in and out of prison, for mostly commercial burglary to fund his drug addiction, but says being on the unit has made him want to change. nothing has caught my attention so much that it's made me - want to do the work, to help me change. i this work needs to be done i so that the next 20 years ain't like the first 20 years. it fascinates me. i went away and i read the government press release today, david, it said that since they started this, they have done some analysis, they think half the aduu some analysis, they think half the adult prison population could be considered neurodiverse which covers all of these conditions and disorders search as learning difficulties, disabilities, acquired brain injuries. it seems to me, it is one of the issues that has been ignored here and i dare say, i cannot find any us tax, but i dare say, has been ignored as well. == say, has been ignored as well. -- us facts. i say, has been ignored as well. -- us facts- i think — say, has been ignored as well. -- us facts. i think if you _ say, has been ignored as well. -- us facts. i think if you look— say, has been ignored as well. -- us facts. i think if you look at _ say, has been ignored as well. -- us facts. i think if you look at the i facts. i think if you look at the united states for a very long time,

it reminds me a little bit of the way that during covid we all realise that teachers were both educators but they also were responsible for child care, they had this additional job. i think in the us, we really outsourced a lot of social work to prisons. that is very expensive and it is not really working for anybody. not working for taxpayers, not working for the people who work at the prisons and certainly not working for prisoners themselves in reducing recidivism or preventing crime. the question is how to fix it. right now, i think that part of the nationwide debate about everything that is happening in the united states, includes this debate about prisons. because there is this question of, at one point this was a bipartisan issue. let's save some money on incarcerating people and spend it treating people or preventing people from being in a place where they're going to end up committing more crimes. that has fallen by the wayside during the trump era, but i think states in particular may be able to get some of it back. , ., ,

of it back. they are putting dedicated _ of it back. they are putting dedicated officers, - of it back. they are putting dedicated officers, neuro-l of it back. they are putting - dedicated officers, neuro- diversity dedicated officers, neuro— diversity officers into every public prison in england and wales as a result of this and it is true that people who may have autism, maybe that has never been identified, mild, or it may be dyslexia or a learning disability, that inhibits people's ability to get a job which ultimately can return people to crime. ~ , ,., , ultimately can return people to crime. ~ , , i. ., ultimately can return people to crime. ~ , ., ., crime. absolutely. if you add on the ro ortion crime. absolutely. if you add on the proportion of— crime. absolutely. if you add on the proportion of prisoners _ crime. absolutely. if you add on the proportion of prisoners who - crime. absolutely. if you add on the proportion of prisoners who also i proportion of prisoners who also have _ proportion of prisoners who also have an — proportion of prisoners who also have an addiction for whatever reason — have an addiction for whatever reason that you are talking about the overwhelming majority of the prison _ the overwhelming majority of the prison population. these are people of whose _ prison population. these are people of whose lives have gone off track a lon- of whose lives have gone off track a long time _ of whose lives have gone off track a long time ago and arguably prison is the last— long time ago and arguably prison is the last place you could think they could _ the last place you could think they could get— the last place you could think they could get on track but what you see is a programme here that is making a hu-e is a programme here that is making a huge difference. i think the lesson and this— huge difference. i think the lesson and this is, — huge difference. i think the lesson and this is, getting lives on track, keeping _ and this is, getting lives on track, keeping them on track is far less expensive — keeping them on track is far less expensive than having to put them back on— expensive than having to put them back on track after. so more you can

have _ back on track after. so more you can have early— back on track after. so more you can have early intervention, whether it is in prison— have early intervention, whether it is in prison or, ideally, before prison, — is in prison or, ideally, before prison, than if you look at the education _ prison, than if you look at the education system, we would put huge resources _ education system, we would put huge resources into helping children with special— resources into helping children with special educational needs and yet, once people get into adults there is far less _ once people get into adults there is far less focus on their outcomes i think— far less focus on their outcomes i think that — far less focus on their outcomes i think that is — far less focus on their outcomes i think that is what needs to fundamentally change. either you have to build _ fundamentally change. either you have to build the _ fundamentally change. either you have to build the presence i fundamentally change. either you have to build the presence or- fundamentally change. either you have to build the presence or find ways to reduce the population and we have seen that here in the uk with certain prisoners, dangerous prisoners being released. we will take a short break and on the other side of it we will talk about sex education. the government set out new guidance today here in the uk will stop we will talk about that after the break. stay with us. hello. scott far north of england with the

best of the day's weather and very warm in the highlands. temperatures reach 25 celsius, the warmest place in the whole of the uk. confirmation of our beautiful weather we had here. it was not like that everywhere for northern ireland england and wales we had some rain or thundershowers around and across berkshire, and also pampered sure, we had photographs into us of some funnel clouds there, tornadoes that do not make it only danced the ground. it was very wet for some. and in cheshire with 25 mm of rain. on into friday's forecast the tail end of the weather front will continue to feed and quite a lot of cloud across northern england and we start off certainly with some mist and fog patches around some of our north seacoast. aside from northern england i suspect overall we are looking at a brighter day on friday with more in the way of sunshine. there will be one or two showers popping up into the afternoon. one or two thunderstorms, but big gaps between those showers and probably for most, we are looking at a trite day with temperatures quietly

heightens the low 20s. feeling warm in the centre. highest temperatures west college where i think we will probably get to 2a, outside chance of a 25. onto the weekend, a low pressure system threatening some heavy bursts of rain across south—east england, certainly more cloud around here as we head into the morning. otherwise, we are looking at a few mist and fog patches, clearing a away, some sunny spells breaking through and then into the afternoon, when our two showers and thunderstorms popping up. temperatures, still on the warm side. we are looking at highs well into the teens. 23—24 in the very warmest areas. given the light winds in the mason trend that will feel very pleasant. or sunday, there is a slight change in the weather picture. across scotland at northern ireland. in that a bit more in the way of cloud pitching in here. thick enough to give us an on patch of rain. england and wales, mainly try with some sunshine. but you will notice the temperature temperatures just dropping a little bit across scotland and northern ireland giving that cloudier weather. beyond that, into next week, it looks like the

start of the week should be ok, many of us will have drier weather was sunny spells but there is a tendency to the cloud to thicken with rain arriving towards the second half of the week.