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tv   BBC News Now  BBC News  April 23, 2024 12:00pm-12:31pm BST

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welcome to bbc news, three hours of fast moving news, interviews and reaction. just hours after rishi sunak �*s flagship rwanda bill was passed in the british parliament, five people, including a child, have died attempting to cross the sea from northern france to britain. the french coastguard said a small overloaded boat was carrying 110 people when it set off from south of calais on tuesday morning. authorities have also been carrying out several search and rescue operations at sea, linked to other attempts to cross the english channel. withinjust attempts to cross the english channel. within just a few hours of the bill going through, the bbc witnessed migrants on another beach in calais trying to get onto boats to cross the english channel. these
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are some of those pictures from one attempt that happened just after dawn. the uk border force has brought around 70 migrants to shore, and a dover lifeboat has been launched to reports of another migrant boat in the channel. andrew harding was on the beach where a boat ran aground and left five people dead. we will speak to him in a moment. first, let's look at what he witnessed as that ill—fated crossing began. shouting. as i said, we canjoin our correspondence now. andrewjoins us from the north french coast. we just saw some pictures of migrants running towards a boat. they look to
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be some sort of firecrackers going on at the same time. can you explain what was happening at that time in the morning? 50. what was happening at that time in the morning?— the morning? 50, this was before dawn. the morning? so, this was before dawn. we have _ the morning? so, this was before dawn. we have been _ the morning? so, this was before dawn. we have been waiting - the morning? so, this was before dawn. we have been waiting on l the morning? so, this was before l dawn. we have been waiting on the beach for many hours overnight, anticipating that there might be migrants trying to get to see in that area from that speech, and suddenly we heard a noise, and it was the police shouting that they had spotted some migrants. we ran with the police and saw about 100, perhaps more, migrants running across the beach. it was damp, the tide had just gone out and they had several hundred metres to run and they were dragging an inflatable. as they were dragging an inflatable. as the police got closer, a fight began as the smugglers and the migrants started bringing out sticks and rods and essentially forming a protective curtain around the migrants to allow them to continue advancing towards them to continue advancing towards the sea, to take their boat into the water. they were throwing firecrackers as well, so there were
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explosions and smoke. the police seemed unable to do anything. they said later that they did not want to interfere. they were children there and it was dangerous. the migrants were already in the water. what happened then was that they got into a boat and we saw it drift slowly just ate few yards off the shore. some people failed to get onto the boat, failed to clamber into it and came back to shore and walked away. we could quickly tell that there was trouble going on in the boat itself. there were just far too many people trying to squeeze inside this inflatable dinghy. you could see people standing in the middle and what we have since learnt is that we were watching people being crushed underfoot, being suffocated and trampled to death. we heard reports that some people may have drowned but that is not clear. we saw some
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life jackets in the water and we heard cries. at that time it was not clear what was happening. the boat drifted further out to sea and at the at the moment the police and at the at the moment the police and migrants that had not made onto the boat started to walk back towards the car park and their vehicles. there were rescue boats approaching the boat but at that point we had no sense that anyone was injured. we assumed that they were simply trying to offer help and perhaps push the boat back to shore if it was required, because the boat was not under power. it if it was required, because the boat was not under power.— if it was required, because the boat was not under power. it was stalled and drifting- — was not under power. it was stalled and drifting- it _ was not under power. it was stalled and drifting. it gives _ was not under power. it was stalled and drifting. it gives us _ was not under power. it was stalled and drifting. it gives us a _ was not under power. it was stalled and drifting. it gives us a sense - was not under power. it was stalled and drifting. it gives us a sense of. and drifting. it gives us a sense of the chaos in the desperation of
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people, and at what point did you realise that there might have been fatalities? it realise that there might have been fatalities? ., , ., , ., fatalities? it was only later when we heard it _ fatalities? it was only later when we heard it through _ fatalities? it was only later when we heard it through the - fatalities? it was only later when we heard it through the french l we heard it through the french authorities that there had been deaths. we later found authorities that there had been deaths. we laterfound out authorities that there had been deaths. we later found out that it had been the boat that we were filming and we understand that those bodies will have been taken on to the rescue ship. the death toll for migrants is rising sharply this year, and also dangerfor the police. authorities tell us that over a week ago ten officers were injured in a similar incident to this, which i suspect explains why the police did not try and intervene more aggressively in what we saw. yes, we were watching pictures earlier of alcoholic who was on the beach further up and the police were
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keeping their distance at —— of our colleague. these pictures show the difficulty for the authorities at stopping people getting onto these boats. the stopping people getting onto these boats. ,., . . stopping people getting onto these boats. . ., ., , boats. the police are saying to us we have got _ boats. the police are saying to us we have got more _ boats. the police are saying to us we have got more men, - boats. the police are saying to us we have got more men, more - we have got more men, more equipment, we have got drones and thermal imaging cameras, but we still don't have enough. a lot of that has been supplied by britain with a half £1 billion three year grant that the british government has been using to support the french police, but the police say that is still not enough, that the numbers of people coming to the coach is sharply rising —— coming to the coast. partly this is connected to vietnamese migrants who are suddenly appearing in large numbers, a bit like a few years ago when albanians started to turn up on the coast, pushing the numbers up. that was settled with a diplomatic agreement between albania and britain. it is not clear yet how this vietnamese
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issue might be solved, but it's clearly putting more and more pressure on the authorities here. i should say we are looking at pictures at the moment from dover. there is an rnli coastguard boat which has docked there and there are people being off—loaded there, which we understand people who have been rescued by the rnli. gives a sense that both on the french side and the british side of the channel there is a huge operation ongoing the moment. indeed. the weather is supposed to get worse in the coming hours, so this was a window, which is why we are here, frankly, because we knew about the window of calmer seas and, weather and we knew there would almost certainly be a push to cross the channel tonight and early this morning. of course, summer is coming and the weather was likely to improve, and we are likely to see more of these incidents, and as the
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police here warn many more deaths because of the numbers and the pressure, and critics say because of the increasing militarisation of the coastline, which is pushing migrants to take ever greater risks in their absolute determination to get to the uk, come what may.— absolute determination to get to the uk, come what may. andrew harding, our correspondent _ uk, come what may. andrew harding, our correspondent from _ uk, come what may. andrew harding, our correspondent from the _ uk, come what may. andrew harding, our correspondent from the north - our correspondent from the north french coast, thank you for the moment. the row safety bill aimed at sending some asylum seekers to the african country was finally backed after a marathon tussle between mps and members of the house of lords. rishi sunak said it marked a landmark moment in the efforts to deter illegal migration and end people smuggling. human rights groups have condemned the policy. rishi sunak said he hoped barring any last—minute legal objections that flights to rwanda could begin within 10-12 flights to rwanda could begin within 10—12 weeks. the united nations has subsequently called on the uk to
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rethink the plan. un leaders say the legislation would harm human rights and refugee protection. 0fficial and refugee protection. official figures showed that the backlog of people waiting to leave the uk rose from 1800 injuly last year, up to more than 50,000 a week ago. henry, i don't know if you saw those pictures but really stark pictures there, emphasising why this has become such a huge political issue and rishi sunak believes this rwanda policy is the answer.— policy is the answer. that's right, and this is _ policy is the answer. that's right, and this is why _ policy is the answer. that's right, and this is why it _ policy is the answer. that's right, and this is why it is _ policy is the answer. that's right, and this is why it is a _ policy is the answer. that's right, and this is why it is a huge - policy is the answer. that's right, | and this is why it is a huge debate in westminster and in the country at large, it is because nobody believes that the situation with people making that perilous and in some
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cases fatal journey is making that perilous and in some cases fataljourney is an adequate state of affairs. but where people differ, really quite profoundly, is how to address it. it has been the policy notjust of rishi sunak, but of consecutive prime ministers, for more than two years now that the way to solve this problem is to have a firm deterrent that makes people not set out on thatjourney across the channel, and the view of rishi sunak, that deterrent is this rwanda policy. in the view of the labour party and other opponents of this policy, all that this rwanda policy will do is soak up money without actually acting as an adequate deterrent. and that is where the debate is. yesterday, parliament, via the conservative majority in the house of commons, said that they believe they want to press ahead with the rwanda policy and rishi sunak now believes that he can get a flight off, at least one flight, but he hopes many more, to rwanda with
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an 8—10 weeks. so all the focus now is on whether he is right, whether that plane will take off. if that plane does and you get what we call a regular rhythm of planes taking off to rwanda, does the policy work because why is it a deterrent to situations like we saw today? exactly, and we were giving figures there are now more than 50,000 people are waiting to have their asylum seeking application looked at. this policy, in terms of flights, we are saying 10—12 weeks for the first like to take off, but even when they do take off, what numbers are we expecting? it’s a numbers are we expecting? it's a ve aood numbers are we expecting? it's a very good question _ numbers are we expecting? it's a very good question to _ numbers are we expecting? it's a very good question to which - numbers are we expecting? it�*s —. very good question to which the government has not given a clear answer. there have been some reports that the rwandan capacity to take these asylum seekers is really limited. it is notjust limited in the sense of where they would house these asylum seekers, although that
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is one element of it. there is a hostel that is ready for them in kigali and i have actually been there, and it is quite small. it is small compared to the volume of people making the journey across the channel. and then there are some suggestions as well, the rwandan government doesn't want too many flights to come too quickly as they get this scheme up and running. time will tell, really on that. at the view of the government, of course, is that by dint of sending at least some asylum seekers to remember, you will stop others making the journey in small boats across the channel. by in small boats across the channel. by the government �*s own logic, the goal would be that merely sending some to rwanda should stop the problem more generally and that is going to be one of the tests of this policy if and when those flights do start to take off. it is policy if and when those flights do start to take off.— start to take off. it is a busy day for the prime _ start to take off. it is a busy day for the prime minister. - start to take off. it is a busy day for the prime minister. a - start to take off. it is a busy day for the prime minister. a late i start to take off. it is a busy day i for the prime minister. a late night for the prime minister. a late night for him last night, but we have seen that he has landed in warsaw. what are we expecting to hear today? the
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prime are we expecting to hear today? tue: prime minister are we expecting to hear today? he prime minister has are we expecting to hear today? tt2 prime minister has been speaking to journalists on the plane over there, and i'm sure he will have said something about the romantic legislation, but also no doubt he will have been asked about what has happened in the channel this morning. more generally, his visit to poland is to underscore the uk �*s approach to the war in ukraine. it is about advertising that the uk government and the western alliance more generally as the government would see it, stands behind ukraine and i think it is time to partly in response to the massive aid package that the united states, the house of representatives finally approved after a long period of parliamentary wrangling over there, just like there has been over here. that, i think, is what this visit is about, but i'm sure we will hear rishi sunak asked about reminder. aha, but i'm sure we will hear rishi sunak asked about reminder. a busy da for the sunak asked about reminder. a busy day for the prime _ sunak asked about reminder. a busy day for the prime minister _ sunak asked about reminder. a busy day for the prime minister today. - day for the prime minister today. thank you for the moment. coming up in 15 minutes, we will focus on the rwanda bill and what it means. joining us will be a senior
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researcher at a think tank and our africa correspondent and they will be answering your questions live, so do get in touch with us using this hashtag. there is so much to talk about, so do bring your questions in, lots of clarification is needed. this is bbc news.
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0nce once again, do keep your questions coming in and we will hopefully be answering them on the rwanda asylum bill which is in about 15 minutes. let's move to one of our other top stories today. this is the judge
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let's move to one of our other top stories today. this is thejudge in the criminal child of donald trump. they will hear arguments that the former president has breached an order which prevents him from attacking witnesses and jurors involved in the case. robert kosterjoins us now. thank you forjoining us on bbc news. take us through what we are likely to hearin us through what we are likely to hear in court today, and the first thing is going to be this gagging order. good morning from here outside the courthouse in lower manhattan. in just a few hours, former president trump will face a high—stakes hearing about the scope of a gag order, which will talk about the scope of what he can say about this a case in terms of the jurors, scope of what he can say about this a case in terms of thejurors, the witnesses, and for now he is not allowed to talk about them at all. whether he can talk about the prosecution. the prosecution in this
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case once donald trump potentially to be held in contempt of court, and to be held in contempt of court, and to be held in contempt of court, and to be fined because he has issued a blizzard of social media posts critical of this case. for donald trump, this is an important moment because he is a federal candidates running for the white house once again, and if thejudge today running for the white house once again, and if the judge today says he is limited in what he can say about this case, he will surely be frustrated, according to sources close to him. frustrated, according to sources close to him-— frustrated, according to sources close to him. ., ~ ~ ., close to him. 0k, thank you. i know ou will close to him. 0k, thank you. i know you will bring _ close to him. 0k, thank you. i know you will bring us _ close to him. 0k, thank you. i know you will bring us up _ close to him. 0k, thank you. i know you will bring us up to _ close to him. 0k, thank you. i know you will bring us up to date - close to him. 0k, thank you. i know you will bring us up to date and - you will bring us up to date and keep us up—to—date with the court throughout the day. thank you for the moment. let's go straight to the us attorney who has been following the trial very closely. thank you for joining the trial very closely. thank you forjoining us here on bbc news. we are only day to and we have had the opening stamens from the defence and prosecution, and now we are talking about gagging orders. this was never going to be a normal trial. tt is a going to be a normaltrial. it is a high-profile _ going to be a normaltrial. it is a high-profile trial _ going to be a normaltrial. it is a high-profile trial but _ going to be a normaltrial. it is a high-profile trial but it _ going to be a normaltrial. it is a
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high-profile trial but it is - going to be a normaltrial. it is aj high-profile trial but it is moving high—profile trial but it is moving along very smoothly. yesterday there were opening statements, and opening statements are not evidence. that is where the state stands up and lays out the case, and then where the defendants council has an opportunity to say what their position is on the arguments. as we stated earlier, there is going to be a hearing today on the gag order, and then continuing with the witnesses on the case.- and then continuing with the witnesses on the case. what are we exectin: witnesses on the case. what are we exoecting today _ witnesses on the case. what are we expecting today then? _ witnesses on the case. what are we expecting today then? as _ witnesses on the case. what are we expecting today then? as you - witnesses on the case. what are we expecting today then? as you say, l witnesses on the case. what are we l expecting today then? as you say, we have had the opening, we have got the gagging order which will be out of the way, and what other penalties if donald trump continues to breach them, because we have seen him talking as he goes in and out of the courts quite regular.— courts quite regular. ultimately, that will be _ courts quite regular. ultimately, that will be up _ courts quite regular. ultimately, that will be up to _ courts quite regular. ultimately, that will be up to judge, - courts quite regular. ultimately, that will be up to judge, but - that will be up to judge, but potentially monetary damages and potentially monetary damages and potential jail time potentially monetary damages and potentialjail time as well. now, thejudge could also potentialjail time as well. now, the judge could also make a modification to the gag order and add additional stuff to it as well, but we will have to see what the judge does on that. and then
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continuing on the trial is david becker, who is testifying about the alleged conspiracy that started back in 2015. , ., , ., ., in 2015. yes, and he started to give his evidence _ in 2015. yes, and he started to give his evidence yesterday, _ in 2015. yes, and he started to give his evidence yesterday, didn't - in 2015. yes, and he started to give his evidence yesterday, didn't he? l his evidence yesterday, didn't he? so that will continue today? yes. the whole catch and release idea that money was paid for the stories, to catch the stories, but they were never put in the press, and that energy back in 2015 with michael cohen and donald trump, they had a meeting and alleged this scheme to effect the election.— effect the election. kelly, i know there's going _ effect the election. kelly, i know there's going to _ effect the election. kelly, i know there's going to be _ effect the election. kelly, i know there's going to be 20 _ effect the election. kelly, i know there's going to be 20 more - effect the election. kelly, i know there's going to be 20 more to l effect the election. kelly, i know. there's going to be 20 more to talk about over the next 6—8 weeks so i'm sure we will speak to again. for the moment, thank you. back now to our top story, and assess approval by both houses of parliament of the rwanda bill, which
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the uk government has hailed as a landmark moment in its efforts to stop people smuggling. human rights groups say the plan, which will allow some asylum seekers to be sent to rwanda, breaches of law. let's speak to former conservative justice secretary sir robert buckland, who supported some of the house of lords changes, and does back the rwanda bill. thank you forjoining us here on bbc news. first of all, your reactions for the news coming out from calais this morning, which does rather highlight the fact that something needs to be done. absolutely. a dreadful tragedy, and again the result of the cynical exploitation of peoples lives and aspirations by those who seek to profit from this misery. this is a humanitarian case, a moral case to stop the boats. it is notjust about sounding tough on immigration. it is
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about stopping a vicious trade and saving lives. 50 about stopping a vicious trade and saving lives-— saving lives. so you support the bill, but not _ saving lives. so you support the bill, but not all _ saving lives. so you support the bill, but not all of _ saving lives. so you support the bill, but not all of the _ saving lives. so you support the bill, but not all of the bill. - saving lives. so you support the bill, but not all of the bill. youl bill, but not all of the bill. you were backing some of the amendments. what are the issues that you think there are with the situation as it stands? ~ ., , , stands? well, i think the bill is ruite a stands? well, i think the bill is quite a radical _ stands? well, i think the bill is quite a radical approach - stands? well, i think the bill is quite a radical approach to - stands? well, i think the bill is quite a radical approach to tryl stands? well, i think the bill is. quite a radical approach to try and deal with what happened in the supreme court last year, where in essenceis supreme court last year, where in essence is the court said there was a problem that people could be sent back to their country of origin from rwanda. i think that a lot has happened since then. there that treaty that the british government have agreed with rwanda, which commits rwanda to a lot of changes that should stop that risk, and i think that answers the points that are being raised today about alleged breaches of international law. it was the duty of parliamentarians like me to give this bill a really good look, and to make sure that it was in as it sounds a place as possible legally, in order for it to work. i was critically concerned about making sure that the reality
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on the ground in rwanda, the changes they are making as a result of the agreement, were in place before we deemed, or presume, that rwanda was a safe country. i think not quite there in terms of what i think the bill should achieve but the government made a lot of assurances yesterday that i think go a long way to deal with this, and now the proof of the pudding is in the eating. let see this in operation and make sure and hope that it works. you see this in operation and make sure and hope that it works.— and hope that it works. you will be aware that — and hope that it works. you will be aware that many _ and hope that it works. you will be aware that many people _ and hope that it works. you will be aware that many people are - and hope that it works. you will be - aware that many people are concerned that rwanda is not a safe country for people to be sent to. t that rwanda is not a safe country for people to be sent to.- for people to be sent to. i am. i mean, for people to be sent to. i am. i mean. the _ for people to be sent to. i am. i mean, the reality _ for people to be sent to. i am. i mean, the reality is _ for people to be sent to. i am. i mean, the reality is that - for people to be sent to. i am. i | mean, the reality is that rwanda for people to be sent to. i am. i - mean, the reality is that rwanda has been the recipient of a lot of refugees and the united nations schemes. i don't think we therefore can ignore that. i think a court last year went through the evidence very carefully and it know to be said that it was not unlawful to use a third country in this way. many other european countries are looking at a similar model, and therefore what we have got to make sure is that it works and that people are
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safe. i think the agreement was reached does satisfy me that there be proper progress delete macro process in place to protect those going to the micro under. —— matt going to the micro under. —— matt going to the micro under. —— matt going to rwanda. find going to the micro under. -- matt going to rwanda.— going to rwanda. and you are confident that _ going to rwanda. and you are confident that this _ going to rwanda. and you are confident that this will - going to rwanda. and you are confident that this will be - going to rwanda. and you are confident that this will be a i confident that this will be a deterrent for people who have maybe fled torture and they want to this country. fled torture and they want to this count . ,., �* fled torture and they want to this count . �* ., , ., country. don't forget, these are --eole country. don't forget, these are people who _ country. don't forget, these are people who are _ country. don't forget, these are people who are coming - country. don't forget, these are people who are coming illegally| country. don't forget, these are - people who are coming illegally and people who are coming illegally and people were not coming for reasons of personal, but for economic reasons and i think we need to send a signal to those coming to the uk that that we are prepared to work with other countries like rwanda to deal with this issue, and will send people there. i think it is only part of a suite of policies that the government has to deal with this issue. we have achieved success with
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albania, for example, reducing numbers coming from there. i think cooperation with the french in form of investment and close working is clearly an important part of this as well. the horror of today again brings into relief the vital importance of working with partners in europe. you know, this is a problem that affects the whole of western europe. the mass migration of people away from areas of war or indeed economic poverty, and it is “p indeed economic poverty, and it is up to all of us to work together, i think, to try to deal with it. that is why rwanda is only a part of a wider policy. 5ir is why rwanda is only a part of a wider policy-— is why rwanda is only a part of a wider policy. sir robert buckland, thank ou wider policy. sir robert buckland, thank you for— wider policy. sir robert buckland, thank you forjoining _ wider policy. sir robert buckland, thank you forjoining us. - thank you forjoining us. ijust want to thank you forjoining us. i just want to bring you thank you forjoining us. ijust want to bring you the news that the prime minister �*s deputy spokeswoman has described the deaths of five people in the channel this morning as deeply distressing. she said it served as a tragic reminder of the human cost of these crossings and why it is so important that we
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stop the criminal gangs exploiting people into making these extremely dangerous journeys. people into making these extremely dangerousjourneys. we people into making these extremely dangerous journeys. we will have your questions answered about the rwanda safety bill after this break. stay with us on bbc news. today, again, it's going to be milder in the west compared to the east. and as we go through the next few days, you'll notice the temperature coming down everywhere — as represented by the blues on the chart — on wednesday, thursday and friday. but as we head on into the weekend, low pressure looks like it's going to move across our shores. that looks like too it will introduce some milder conditions, but there's still a lot to play for with that one. today, we've got the dregs of yesterday's front pushing slowly south—eastwards, with its cloud and patchy light rain and drizzle. eastern areas still exposed to this brisk wind, taking the edge off the temperatures. it will feel quite cold on the east coast. a few showers for wales into the south—west, and the cloud in the east thick
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enough for that drizzle. it's the west that's going to see the lion's share of the sunshine today. and, as a result, this is where we'll have the highest temperatures. we could reach 16 degrees once again. in glasgow yesterday, it was 16.5 celsius here. as we head through the evening and overnight, still the brisk, keen wind coming in off the north sea, blowing in some cloud, one or two showers. we've got this lump of cloud across central parts of england, east wales, pushing down towards the south. but under clear skies, where we've got the blues, temperatures will be freezing or even below. tomorrow, still this keen wind, still the cloud coming in from the north sea. but out towards the west, we're looking at brighter skies, some sunshine. you could catch a shower once again in south wales or indeed south—west england. temperatures, 1a in glasgow, so the temperatures coming down a little bit, 9 in norwich. and then as we head on into thursday, well, we've got low pressure out to the east, low pressure out towards the west, a front very close by, and it does mean we will see one or two showers. it's going to be
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a colder day as well. some of those showers on high ground in scotland could well prove to be wintry, but a fair bit of cloud around, and again, nowhere really immune to a shower. this is a weather front trying to come in from the west. temperatures, 8 in aberdeen to about 13 in london. as we go beyond that into the end of the week and into the weekend, well, it looks very much like it's going to continue unsettled. there will be some rain at times, but the temperatures slowly starting to creep up.
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live from london, this is bbc news. five people — including a child — have died trying to cross the english channel in a small boat. it comes as parliament looks to pass its controversial law to send some asylum seekers to rwanda. this picture was released of prince louis to celebrate his birthday. now it's time for your
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questions answered. so let's get more on our main story — the uk government's new law — just passed — to send migrants to rwanda. for the next 25 minutes, we're going to focus on answering your questions about this with the help of bbc correspondents and academic experts. here's how you get in touch — use the hashtag #bbcyourquestions or email yourquestions@bbc.co.uk i'm sure you have many questions so please send them in. let's understand more on the legal side with drjoelle grogan, who's a senior researcher at the academic think tank uk in a changing europe. 0ur africa correspondent barbara plett usher, in kigali, rwanda.

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