to draw even with china. plus, later in the show, it's meat, but it's grown from animal cells in a laboratory. more than a decade after unveiling the first lab—grown hamburger, i'm going to be asking its inventor how business is going and if lab—grown meat can become the new norm. wherever you'rejoining me from around the world, once again, a big hello and a warm welcome to the show. you know, the global energy supply, it's going green at a powerful rate. in fact, by next year, the iea, the international energy agency, predicts that renewables will overtake coal to become the largest source of power in the world. for most of recent history, the world economy, it's been shaped by which countries control the supply of oil, gas and coal. so, will china's massive lead in renewables reshape the power dynamics of global energy? let me just put this into some context.

in the early 20005, europe was the leading solar panel—maker in the world, but then the chinese state pumped billions into that industry. according to the latest report from the iea, china, it'll account for 60% of all of the world's new renewable energy that will come online by 2028. that's four times more than the european union and five times more than the united states. in solar, the largest generator of renewable power. china, it's going to continue counting for 80 to 95% of the global supply chain. that's according to the iea. that's despite concerns over forced labour in that supply chain. at one point, america was blocking imports of some solar panels from china, though that seems to have stopped more recently. the ambition for america and europe to catch up, oh, boy, it is there. in 2022, america's president biden, he announced his inflation reduction act,

which burntjust over $282 billion of investment in renewables in the first year. and europe, it's recently committed to raising the amount of energy that comes from renewable sources to just over 40% by 2030. meanwhile, china's lead is giving its own economy a big bounce, contributing $1.6 trillion more than any other sector to the country's economic growth. so the clean energy sector is now the largest driver of economic growth in china. last year, it made up 40% of the expansion of gdp for china. so developing clean energy is no longer a business for china just to realise climate goals, it also solidifies china's role at the heart of global supply chains. but while china enjoys growth from the industry, in europe and america, there are growing concerns about oversupply and subsidies.

europe, it's just starting to open investigations into some contracts given to chinese companies because of those subsidies involved. and over the pond, well, here's what the american treasury secretary, janet yellen, recently had to say. china's overcapacity distorts global prices and production patterns, and hurts american firms and workers, as well as firms and workers around the world. challenges for individual firms can lead to concentrated supply chains, negatively impacting global economic resilience. and these are concerns i increasingly hear from government counterparts in industrialised countries and emerging markets, as well as from the business community globally. so, that's the view from inside the american government. but what about the renewables industries themselves? well, i caught up with the president and the chief executive of the american council on renewable

energy to find out. ray long, good to have you with us. and ray, let me start with this, because janet yellen raised concerns about china flooding the market with subsidised solar panels. so i've got to ask you, do you agree with that? what do you say to that? aaron, thanks for that important question. the bottom line here in the united states is you're seeing major shift in supply chain right now. you're seeing manufacturing ramp up in the united states, at the same time that we need to continue to import panels in order to meet the demand that we have here in the united states for the projects that we have to be built across all 50 states. so there's a balance to be struck here between imports and ramping up manufacturing. is it too little too late, ray? if you look at what has been proposed now in the united states, we have over 2,000 gigawatts of projects that are just waiting for approval across all 50 states right now.

most people don't know what a gigawatt is. it's an incredible amount of power. 2,000 is a huge number overall. if you wanted to break that down, if all those projects get built, that would be enough power to electrify a third of the households in the united states overall. and ijust wanted to put that out there to say that the demand that we have here and just the projects that have been proposed in the united states is enormous. as those continue to get built, the manufacturing that's taking place in here, here in the united states, will help to meet that demand overall. so when you ask if we can catch up, the answer is we're doing it now and you're going to see that more play out over the next couple of years. ray, as we know, it is a big election year. and donald trump, i mean, let's be frank, he's traditionally been a bit of a sceptic about renewables, like saying things like, "wind energy kills birds."

ray, i've got to ask you, what happens to the renewables industry in the united states if he returns to the white house? i think the thing that we're seeing that has bipartisan support overall are things likejob creation, manufacturing, investments in communities and all that. in the last two years, you know, $91 billion have been invested in just manufacturing alone, and most of that's in renewable energy projects overall. i don't suspect that republicans, as a group, are going to embrace renewables overall, but certainly the impact that these are having in red and rural districts overall can't be ignored. my hope is that, you know, over time, as these things continue to deliver on affordable, reliable and clean for customers across the united states, that it becomes something that's supported in a bipartisan fashion across the board. ray, the statistics show that china, it is way ahead of the game than anyone else.

in fact, it's likely that china is in a different league all together. so, are you worried that we might become overreliant on chinese energy? we're seeing right now, for a whole variety of reasons, including in the united states, with the major increase in demand that we're experiencing from al, from data centres, from electrification of buildings, to adoption of electric vehicles and all those different things, just an incredible and unprecedented opportunity for investment here, for manufacturing here, for all those different things. and, yes, we have an international market right now and an international supply chain overall, butjust remember, when things have been hard in the united states and elsewhere in the past, the united states people, for the most part, have rallied across the board. back in the depression, you know, you saw the empire state building built injust over a year. that was a remarkable thing. in the �*60s, you sanfk announce the moon shot

programme overall, and just eight years later, the united states beat the rest of the world and put the first person on the moon with apollo 11. and there are countless other examples like that, overall. the united states�* people are in the process of pulling together now at an unprecedented time, at least in my lifetime, to do these things, do onshore manufacturing, to invest in new technologies, to dominate the technology industry with things like ai worldwide, and i think you'll see that same american spirit playing out in this regard as well. well, on that point, ray long, the big boss of the american council on renewable energy, thanks for your time and we'll talk to you soon. thank you, aaron. it's notjust in the united states. europe, it was once way ahead of the rest of the world in renewables. so, what now that china has pulled ahead? i decided to speak with the director of the european renewable energies federation. doerte fouquet, a real pleasure having you back on the show. and doerte, let me start

with this, what kind of support does the industry need to compete, and certainly to compete with the likes of china? that's at the moment the question of the day for the european solar industry, especially concerning manufacturing. we do have now more than 80%, ithink, coming...of all panels coming to europe. the situation has deteriorated even further since the americans have put into action the ira act. so we do have an overwhelming problem. doerte, i'm wondering, do you think there should be we need... we have learned our

lesson. we come back to that but we need to roll—out targets for manufacturing in europe. we need a swift application of the renewable industry act and we need application for new products which would be under this industry act possible and we also need what the council said, a swift agreement on sustainability and due diligence act. in my view, we need them together at least for some time that introduction of new measures. doerte, i'm wondering, do you think there should be

some form of protection against these imports of solar panels coming in from china, at least while the european manufacturers try to play catch—up? unfortunately, i have to say the situation is so, in a way, dramatic. it's even dramatic for china, because there is a constant overproduction in china. also, due to the fact that one of the big markets, united states, there is a problematic entrance. so that is not good for the... there is no stable industry, economy in china either. we've had countermeasures over many many years, in 2018 and on going further, but we need to that but not alone. we had it in the past as a single measure which was ridiculous. we have

this temporary prices framework for state aid. we do have roll—out plans. we might think about buying, that state by the quantity existing of still living domestic producers but in that context, we cannot be blind and say that it's for a period and is limited and then you can't have any more. doerte, are you concerned about these reports of alleged forced labour in china's solar panel supply chain? yes, iam. and it's fairly broadly established. i can only...only what makes myself a little bit bitter, if they have overproduction, i could well imagine that the temporary close in that specific region with the indigenous people, the production which they have too much anyhow, and then pretend that the value chain and our moral and human rights issues are no longer, they would deny them. but anyhow, they would say, "it's closed.

"it's a closed issue." that's what makes me bitter. and let me end on this. doerte, can europe catch up with china? i would say we can at least have a third of our capacity produced by ourselves by 2030 if you make it right. and i do not think we need to reach an attack situation of 100% made in europe. that would be the end of any trade. it's not about that, but we could then start... we had very good, we had a much better situation of negotiating real climate issues with china in the years around the 2008, 2010, and then it became a confrontational issue. and if we have more power in saying we are capable and we can leapfrog again in having the best technology, why not? we have good engineers in europe, as well. then we can start renegotiating and helping china also to...

..also to ease their subsidy situation, in a way, and find their own market in china, further. they do a lot. well, on that point, doerte fouquet, the boss of the european renewable energies federation, great to see you again and thanks for your time. thank you so much. bye— bye. well, my next guest runs europe's leading solar marketplace, 0tovo. so, they're one of the biggest users of solar panels in europe and the uk. i caught up with its big boss. andreas thorsheim, a real pleasure having you on the show. and let me start with this because, andreas, wejust heard from the director of the european renewable energy federation who says that chinese subsidies are creating a real issue for the european industry. do you agree with her? certainly there are enormous amounts of panels already in storage in europe, and there's more coming in on ships every single day. we're looking at oversupply that is enormous. the prices of panels dropped between 35% and 50% in all european countries last year.

so, obviously, this is a challenge for everyone who is manufacturing or owning panels in warehouses. but for the consumer, it's excellent news. no—one has ever gotten as cheap solar energy as european consumers are getting this year. andreas, i've got to ask you, how many of the solar panels that you sell and install, how many of them come from china? i estimate that about 90% are manufactured by chinese—owned companies and 75% are produced in mainland china. andreas, we've certainly seen just what happens when europe becomes dependent on energy sources from potentially hostile foreign powers. do you think this all needs to be de—risked? i think you want the ability to make your own panels, you want the ability to make your own batteries. i think that makes sense from a security perspective, both energy security and national security. now, the difference between solar panels and gas

is that if your exporter, the chinese in this regard, become your enemy, the panels will last, they'll keep making energy for 30 years, whereas if your gas exporter becomes your enemy, they turn off the gas immediately and you get cold immediately. so we have more response time with renewables than we do with fossil fuels. but that doesn't mean that we can go to zero. we absolutely need a local manufacturing value chain in europe. how much of a spike did you see in interest in business after the russian invasion of ukraine? the demand for solar panels tripled from 2021 to 2022, almost exactly pinpointed to the point, the time where the energy prices responded. so, first in scandinavia, then in northern europe, and then southern europe last. but pretty much everywhere uniformly demand 3x, and we saw a bumper year in �*22. a lot of that followed on to 2023 and hopefully we can keep it up in 202a. andreas, when we talk about china being in the lead in terms of renewables,

i mean, if we use the analogy of a horse race, china's not just a couple of horses in front, it does feel like that china's on a completely different racetrack. can europe catch them? the chinese have lapped us several times. there are single companies that in 2023 expanded their production capacity by as much as europe consumes. a single company. they are... they are miles and miles ahead. it's just incredible, the advantage they have in size, in competence, in technology. and it's feeding into lower prices and, to be honest, pretty decent equipment. i mean, they are the leading edge of this industry. and there's a long stretch to cover before we're anywhere close to the chinese in modules. 0n batteries, it's still early in the game. and batteries, we can have an honest fight with the chinese companies,

i think, here in europe. well, on that point, andreas thorsheim, the big boss of 0tovo, really appreciate your time and thanks forjoining me. thank you. hey, coming up after the break, it's meat, you know, there was a time in the last few decades when solar energy or wind energy were largely seen as power supplies that would, well, that they'd be on the fringe, that our energy was inevitably going to still come from coal, oil or gas. but as we've discussed, next year, renewables, they will be the number one source of energy in the world. meanwhile, 11 years ago, a new green idea was also being unveiled. in 2013, dr mark post revealed the mosa meat burger made from cells grown in a lab rather than from a slaughtered animal. the product promised to be kind to animals and kinder to the planet, as meat production is one of the world's largest causes of carbon dioxide emissions. so, nearly 11 years later, how's it going? dr mark post, really great to have you with us. and, mark, let me start with this, because on the show we've

been talking about renewables and we have seen renewable energies move from the fringes to the mainstream of energy supply. so i want to start with this, do you think your lab—cultured meat could do the same thing with food, go mainstream? the two major impacts on environment are energy and livestock agriculture. so if we want to reach those paris agreement goals, we need to work on both. and i'm very happy to see that this has been very successful at the energy front and i think this will be the same for meat. mark, paint us a picture here. what kind of environmental impact does normal meat production have on our planet? it's unimaginable. the fao has determined, back in 2011, that 15% of all greenhouse gas emission comes from livestock agriculture. and in addition to that, there's a lot of water usage.

0ne kilo of beef requires up to 15,000 litres of fresh water. and there's a lot of land use obviously, as well. 80% of all our agricultural land is used to feed animals instead of human beings. well, indirectly human beings, but with the intermediate of feeding animals. so if you can save a lot of that, it has a tremendous impact. everyone sitting here with bated breath is dying to see what's underneath the cloche. so can you do the honours and lift the lid on your creation? it's been 11 years, so i've got to ask you, are you selling the burgers today? no, we are not, unfortunately. so, it's taking longer than we had hoped. and the reason for that is that... well, there are two, actually. one is regulatory approval that now kind of is shaping up, but it's still not at the level where we need it to be. so a couple of products now have been approved, mostly chicken, by the way. and the other is scaling up.

scaling up is still quite expensive. and that's because of some of the ingredients that are from pharmaceutical grade. they come from the medical technology, and they are still just expensive. how are you surviving financially? fortunately, we are backed up by investors who have a long horizon, so they don't... they know that this is going to take long, that there are setbacks, and they knew that from the very beginning. and we also made it clear to them this is not going to give you a return of investment within the next five or ten years. this is going to take longer. so, fortunately, we have a lot of those people with vision and also with the patience to wait for return of their investment. also because they think it's just a good idea for environment and for humanity.

you know, i've got to ask you, when do you think your product will come to market? well, depends on where you are in the world. so, in europe, the first two years, it's not going to happen. europe takes a year and a half for it to get through the full approval mode. uk might be a little bit quicker. singapore, for sure, is quicker. so we are hoping within the next one to two years have something on the market at least that people can taste and try. mark, have you had any pushback, any pushback singapore is really incentivised to make this

happen and they are at the forefront of getting the regulation order. mark, have you had any pushback, any pushback at all from the traditional meat industry? we are seeing that now. actually, for the first time this year or maybe mid last year, we start to see pushback, especially in the us where a couple of states want to ban this from the market and italy just has banned it from the market, which is doubtful whether this is legal or not, because, you know, it has not even been assessed by the eu yet. but there is gradually some pushback from, you know, the meat lobby — and the agricultural lobby, as we have experienced in the last couple of months, is extremely strong and they are trying to protect that. and, you know, that's their full right in a democracy. however, we need to realise that they don't really have a solution for the problem.

and mark, let me end on this, five to seven years�* time, how widespread do you see your meat products? for all of us, we need to hope that this is very, very widespread. we cannot continue with livestock agriculture as we have done over the last 50 years. it's not sustainable and it will not provide enough food for nine billion people. so we all have to hope that this is a desirable and useful alternative so that we can all keep eating meat without the consequence for the environment. well, on that point, dr mark post, a real pleasure having you with us. good luck with everything and we'll check in with you soon. thank you, and have a great day. well, that's it for this week's show. i hope you enjoyed it. don't forget, you can keep up with the latest on the global economy on the bbc website or the smartphone app. of course, you can also follow me on x. x me, i'll x you back. you can get me @bbcaaron. thanks for watching. i'll see you soon. bye— bye.

hello, there. on saturday, we saw two sides to storm kathleen... to storm kathleen... 0n the one hand across eastern england with some weak sunshine. temperatures reached 21 celsius in suffolk. the warmest day of the year so far. further west, though, those winds were a lot stronger. gusts of 60, 70 miles an hour and some large waves as well. and storm kathleen is still on the scene tracking northwards to the west of the uk. still going to bring with it some windy weather on sunday and there'll be some further sunshine, but also some showers. it's not going to be quite as warm as it was on saturday. we've got to start with a bit of early rain to clear away from north east england, south east scotland, and then more showers will come in from the northwest of scotland and northern ireland. we'll see some wet weather arriving in wales, pushing through parts of the midlands and northern england later into the southwest of england. the best of the dry weather and sunshine probably through east anglia and the south east of england. but it's going to be a windy day, the strongest of the winds

likely to be in the far north west of scotland, over 60 miles an hour. temperatures are going to be lower than they were on saturday, but a pleasant 16 or 17 in the south east and across east anglia in the sunshine. now, as storm kathleen weakens by monday to the north of scotland, we're going to find our next area of low pressure moving in from the south. and this one is going to bring with it some cloud and some outbreaks of rain. that's mainly going to run northward of the western side of the uk. but we'll see some rain for northern england. southern scotland, northern scotland likely to be dry. the winds becoming lighter and we'll get some sunshine and dry weather for a while through the midlands and across some eastern parts of england. again, temperatures 16 or 17 degrees. by the end of the day, it's not going to be as windy, but our area of low pressure is likely to deepen overnight and the winds strengthen again towards the south west of england and through the english channel into the channel islands. and we've still got some cloud. we've got some outbreaks of rain leftover on tuesday to push steadily eastwards across england and wales and some further showers to the north west of scotland. the wind direction is changing to a north westerly and that's

going to bring with it some colder air. so maximum temperatures on tuesday are only 10 to 12 celsius. now, that colder air shouldn't last too long. during wednesday and into thursday, the wind direction changes. we get milder southwesterly winds, but that brings with it the chance of some more rain.

live from washington, this is bbc news. the israeli military confirms it has recovered the body of hostage elad katzir from khan younis, nearly six months after he was abducted by hamas. in slovakia's presidential election, a pro—moscow candidate emerges the winner. ukraine warns of dwindling military defences as seven people are killed in two russian drone attacks on kharkiv. and after uganda's constitutional court upholds one of the harshest anti—lgbtq+ laws in the world, we hear from a leading activist

who is fighting to overturn it. hello, i'm carl nasman. israel's military says it has recovered the body of a man taken hostage and held in gaza in an overnight operation in khan younis on saturday. it accused the islamichhad group of murdering the man, who has been identified as 47—year—old elad katzir. elad was a farmer who was kidnapped from his kibbutz during the hamas attacks on southern israel last 0ctober. his sister said she blames israel's government for failing to do a deal with hamas. she, along with thousands of protestors, are calling on their government to do more to free the remaining hostages. from jerusalem, our middle east correspondent hugo bachega reports. in tel aviv, protesters are back on the streets. it has been six months since palestinian gunmen stormed southern israel from gaza, and more than 100

israelis remain in captivity.