tonight, amidst increasing international pressure on israel over the killing of seven aid workers, the first call by benjamin netanyahu's main rival in the emergency government for elections within months. the israel defense force promises an independent investigation into the aid convoy kiilings. we'll ask an idf spokeman how it can be independent if it's conducted by former idf personnel. they come to their own conclusions. they are independent of the chain of command. they can rule whatever they see fit, based on their professional

understanding of the reality. we'll be asking the team leader for save the children's gaza response what she makes of that, and speaking to the diplomatic correpondent at the times of israel about the prospect of an early election. also tonight: is the market in the uk for electric cars running out of charge? we'll examine the data and ask whether there's a risk of our net—zero journey running off the road. 75 years tomorrow, nato was founded, out of the ashes of world war ii, but how does the prospect of a trump presidency, a pugancious putin, and impecunity feel for the alliance? we'll bejoined by sir richard barrons, former commander of the joint forces command. good evening. for the first time since the october 7th attacks, the war cabinet minister benny gantz — benjamin netanyahu's main rival, who joined the government on an emergency basis, after the hamas attack — has said when he wants to see elections, proposing they should

take place in september, two years before scheduled. he cited the need to "maintain unity" and renew trust in the government. thousands of protesters who gathered outside netanyahu's house for a third night, calling for early elections and for him to be ousted, were met with water cannon. and families of some of the hostages smeared paint inside the knesset, demanding the government do more to free the hostages. this, against the ongoing international condemnation of the israeli air strike on the world central kitchen convoy. the foreign secretary, david cameron, has asked israel for an urgent explanation of how the israeli air strike, which killed seven aid workers — three british, one australian, one polish, one palestinian and a dual us—canadian — happened. we'll be talking to the idf about that in a moment and looking at the political situation in israel, but first, here's joe. they came to gaza to save lives, but ended up paying with their own. the killing of seven workers from the

world central kitchen caused outrage and led to calls for change. the victims, three british, one polish, one us canadian, one australian. their deaths were unprecedented in this conflict. but there was a seventh person killed on monday night whose death might otherwise have gone unnoticed. a palestinian humanitarian worker. and they have been killed in huge numbers. since the 7th of october, 203 humanitarian workers have been killed in gaza. 197 palestinians, and the vast majority of them working for the united nations.— majority of them working for the united nations. there is loads of fearful peeple's _ united nations. there is loads of fearful people's lives _ united nations. there is loads of fearful people's lives and - united nations. there is loads of fearful people's lives and the - united nations. there is loads of. fearful people's lives and the lives of their children. we have had staff on several bringing their children to work because they say that if we die, at least we die together. this rah die, at least we die together. this graph shows _ die, at least we die together. this graph shows the numbers of humanitarians killed globally every yearfor humanitarians killed globally every year for 20 years. the leap

humanitarians killed globally every yearfor 20 years. the leap in humanitarians killed globally every year for 20 years. the leap in 2023 was so great that the palestinian deaths alone are greater than the total deaths in any previous year. israel has a responsibility both as a party— israel has a responsibility both as a party to— israel has a responsibility both as a party to an armed conflict and as an occupied — a party to an armed conflict and as an occupied power, occupying power to fulfil_ an occupied power, occupying power to fulfil its _ an occupied power, occupying power to fulfil its responsibilities under international humanitarian law. so not just _ international humanitarian law. so not just to — international humanitarian law. so not just to tolerate humanitarian aid, but — not just to tolerate humanitarian aid, but to — not just to tolerate humanitarian aid, but to recite and facilitate humanitarian deliveries to civilians _ humanitarian deliveries to civilians. �* humanitarian deliveries to civilian— humanitarian deliveries to civilians. �* , ., ., civilians. but when you look at the circumstances _ civilians. but when you look at the circumstances of _ civilians. but when you look at the circumstances of each _ civilians. but when you look at the circumstances of each death, - circumstances of each death, something interesting emerges —— to facilitate. 15% of the humanitarians killed were doing theirjob at the time. the other 85% were not at work. despite that, those on the ground state aid agencies are under attack. we ground state aid agencies are under attack. ~ ., . ., ., ., attack. we have recorded more than 300 hits on — attack. we have recorded more than 300 hits on our— attack. we have recorded more than 300 hits on our facilities, _ 300 hits on our facilities, including _ 300 hits on our facilities, including those _ 300 hits on our facilities, including those where - 300 hits on our facilities, - including those where people were taking _ including those where people were taking shelter_ including those where people were taking shelter under— including those where people were taking shelter under the _ including those where people were taking shelter under the united - taking shelter under the united nations— taking shelter under the united nations flag _ taking shelter under the united nations flag -- _ taking shelter under the united nations flag —— say— taking shelter under the united nations flag —— say eight - taking shelter under the united -

nations flag —— say eight entrances. at ieast— nations flag —— say eight entrances. at least 400 — nations flag —— say eight entrances. at least 400 people _ nations flag —— say eight entrances. at least 400 people were _ nations flag —— say eight entrances. at least 400 people were reported i at least 400 people were reported killed _ at least 400 people were reported killed as _ at least 400 people were reported killed as a — at least 400 people were reported killed as a result. _ at least 400 people were reported killed as a result. and _ at least 400 people were reported killed as a result. and united - killed as a result. and united nations— killed as a result. and united nations facilities— killed as a result. and united nations facilities in _ killed as a result. and united nations facilities in gaza - killed as a result. and united nations facilities in gaza and | nations facilities in gaza and elsewhere _ nations facilities in gaza and elsewhere are _ nations facilities in gaza and elsewhere are marked - nations facilities in gaza and i elsewhere are marked normally nations facilities in gaza and - elsewhere are marked normally with very big _ elsewhere are marked normally with very big un — elsewhere are marked normally with very big un signs. _ elsewhere are marked normally with very big un signs, they— elsewhere are marked normally with very big un signs, they have - elsewhere are marked normally with very big un signs, they have the - elsewhere are marked normally with very big un signs, they have the un| very big un signs, they have the un flag and _ very big un signs, they have the un flag and the — very big un signs, they have the un flag and the coordinates _ very big un signs, they have the un flag and the coordinates and - very big un signs, they have the un flag and the coordinates and the - flag and the coordinates and the reason _ flag and the coordinates and the reason why— flag and the coordinates and the reason why they _ flag and the coordinates and the reason why they have _ flag and the coordinates and the reason why they have the - flag and the coordinates and the - reason why they have the coordinates is specifically— reason why they have the coordinates is specifically to — reason why they have the coordinates is specifically to avoid _ reason why they have the coordinates is specifically to avoid them _ reason why they have the coordinates is specifically to avoid them from - is specifically to avoid them from harm _ is specifically to avoid them from harm because _ is specifically to avoid them from harm because they— is specifically to avoid them from harm because they are _ is specifically to avoid them from i harm because they are protected. is specifically to avoid them from - harm because they are protected. the world harm because they are protected. world food kitchen had also shared their coordinates with the israeli military. this evening, the charity's founder accused israel of targeting his staff car by car. there can be little doubt that the precision munitions that hit these moving vehicles were aimed at them. the question is, was it part of a deliberate strategy? i the question is, was it part of a deliberate strategy?— the question is, was it part of a deliberate strategy? i don't think the aid agencies _ deliberate strategy? i don't think the aid agencies have _ deliberate strategy? i don't think the aid agencies have been - deliberate strategy? i don't thinkj the aid agencies have been intact intentionally, however that might make it even worse, because it means the lack of coordination is very serious. and it basically means that their chain of command isn't working

properly. because in order to launch an attack on a route that has been approved time and time again for aid, you are meant to go right up to the very senior command, commanders in the israeli army. and it looks like some commanders on the ground are doing whatever they want to be doing and not following the rules of engagement. the doing and not following the rules of engagement-— engagement. the world central kitchen took _ engagement. the world central kitchen took an _ engagement. the world central kitchen took an increasing - engagement. the world central kitchen took an increasing role | engagement. the world central. kitchen took an increasing role in gaza, partly because relations between israel and unrwa, the two organisations with responsibility for this territory, had broken down beyond repair. israel accused 12 staff from the un agency of being involved in the massacres on the 7th of october. unrwa launch an investigation, israel called for the body to be disbanded, and all the while, the numbers dying continue to rise. earlier, i spoke to the idf spokesman, retired lietenant colonel peter lerner. i asked him what the latest was on

the idf investigations into the killing of the aid workers. indeed, the investigations are ongoing, as our chief of staff lieutenant general herzi halevi announced in the early hours of this morning, it was a mistake, as a result of a misidentification. i expect that in the next couple of days, we will have some clear a nswe i’s. you're already making a judgment that it was a misidentification, a mistake that followed a misidentification at night. you're prejudging any investigation. no, the preliminary outcome that was presented to our chief of staff suggested that it was a misidentification. that is what we understand up until this stage. i think we need to give the investigation that is under way the time to exactly clarify what the misidentification was. so there's no debate at all. the world central kitchen did everything that they had

to do for deconfliction. all details were given. markings were in the convoy. that's absolutely 100%? i'm not saying that. i'm saying before i can comment on that, we have to get the final ruling of the inquiry that's taking place, so that we can actually confirm that that was the situation. the reason i'm mentioning about the deconfliction details, because those are details that are given to you by any aid convoy. are you actually saying that it's possible that you didn't have the full details, or didn't request the full details, or didn't actually know who was travelling on the ground? i don't want to... go into... things that are still not 100% confirmed. but the reason this is so important is it means that every single aid convoy is in danger. it is important that there is confidence, that there is trust, and that we don't make mistakes like that happened against the strike of the world central kitchen. it's absolutely necessary. well, how do you account for the fact that the un is pausing overnight operations for 48 hours?

what guarantee can you give to the un that it's perfectly safe for them to start overnight operations again? just yesterday, 150 trucks — this is after the strike, the tragedy — 150 trucks were distributed throughout the gaza strip. and more trucks are going in through alternate routes as well that the idf is facilitating across our border with the gaza strip. it is a challenge. i'm being very, very frank. i think that there is... the complexities of combat, the complexities of war, as it is developing, the nature of how our enemy will take full advantage of the urban arena. they have weaponised the urban arena. absolutely, there can be mistakes, as we acknowledge specifically with the world central kitchen. and explicitly, the tragic outcome and result of this strike. and we need to hold our forces, our soldiers, our commanders accountable for their actions. you talk about accountability.

this is billed as an independent investigation. is anyone involved in this investigation in any way connected with the idf? of course, the independent is independent of the chain of command. it's people that are former senior military officers, those that have had a very clear understanding of warfare, of combat, of operations, of conducting operations. it's a very, very unique and challenging situation. so it needs professionals that can look through the prism of military operations to understand exactly what happened. they're not independent. they're former members of the military in the country, in the idf. so why would anyone trust the outcome of this investigation? look, in previous conflicts, we've had similar mechanisms that have been established. they come to their own conclusions. they are independent of the chain of command. as i said, they can rule whatever they see fit, based on their professional

understanding of the reality. and i think we need to, based on the experiences of the past, understand that it is a challenge. and we need professional military men or women that can look at the situation, the scenarios that have developed and create and come to the specific conclusions that are correct. so why don't you give thatjob to one of your allies for military men and women and one of your allies to look at this material? it isn't independent if there are former members, senior members of the idf undertaking the investigation, why would anyone trust you? why would anyone believe you? i think that there's. .. we are obviously sharing our information with our allies, on a military—to—military basis. that is absolutely part of the process. we will be sharing that. they willjudge it from their professional perspective of our operations. and, of course, byjudging the actions and the understandings and the conclusions of this assessment that will be made

and the investigation that will be presented, we will be able tojudge if we can... if they can be trusted. thank you very much indeed, peter lerner. that evening. —— good evening. we can speak now to karyn beattie, from save the children. and in a moment, i'll also be speaking to lazar berman, who is a diplomatic correspondent for the times of israel. the founder of the world central kitchen believes that they were actually targeted and i wonder what the feeling is generally among aid workers tonight?— the feeling is generally among aid workers tonight? good evening. yes, i think a workers tonight? good evening. yes, i think a lot — workers tonight? good evening. yes, i think a lot of— workers tonight? good evening. yes, i think a lot of us _ workers tonight? good evening. yes, i think a lot of us are _ workers tonight? good evening. yes, i think a lot of us are really, - i think a lot of us are really, really shocked by this incident. and we were quite afraid, if i'm honest with you, because we don't know why world central kitchen would have been a target. as far as we understand, they are very good at providing their movements, ensuring that they coordinate with the

israeli forces. so the fact that they were targeted is quite a shock for all of us. and obviously, we are heartbroken to have lost this incredible team of people. find heartbroken to have lost this incredible team of people. and on that basis, — incredible team of people. and on that basis, what _ incredible team of people. and on that basis, what about _ incredible team of people. and on that basis, what about your- incredible team of people. and on| that basis, what about your people on the ground in gaza going out in aid convoys, especially when you have given your deconfliction details, does anyone have any trust that they will be safe?— that they will be safe? well, no, not really to _ that they will be safe? well, no, not really to be _ that they will be safe? well, no, not really to be honest - that they will be safe? well, no, not really to be honest with - that they will be safe? well, no, not really to be honest with you. and i think that before this incident, we knew that there was really nowhere in gaza that was safe. we did everything, we do everything we can to minimise the risk to our staff, to the people we are trying to work with and serve. but this incident has really shaken all of us who are working, trying to deliver humanitarian aid. right now, will it have any _ deliver humanitarian aid. right now, will it have any impact _

deliver humanitarian aid. right now, will it have any impact on _ deliver humanitarian aid. right now, will it have any impact on the - deliver humanitarian aid. right now, will it have any impact on the work l will it have any impact on the work you're doing? ladle will it have any impact on the work you're doing?— will it have any impact on the work you're doing? we won't be pausing because feel _ you're doing? we won't be pausing because feel that _ you're doing? we won't be pausing because feel that we _ you're doing? we won't be pausing because feel that we have - you're doing? we won't be pausing because feel that we have looked l you're doing? we won't be pausing | because feel that we have looked at it and thought there is really nothing else we can do. if we look at what happened with the world central kitchen colleagues, there is nothing that they missed. there is nothing that they missed. there is no step that they missed. and so we just we trust that we will be ok, but we are continuing because we really believe the children deserve to be kept safe and to be protected. and obviously, they are not currently being protected, but we are doing the best we can to help them through this terrible thing that they are living through. finally, karyn, you will have heard the idf spokesman saying this will be an independent inquiry, but it will be conducted by former idf senior military figures. how important is it for aid agencies to have faith in the truth of this investigation?— investigation? look, ithink accountability _ investigation? look, ithink accountability in _ investigation? look, ithink accountability in this - investigation? look, ithink accountability in this case l investigation? look, i think| accountability in this case is

investigation? look, ithink- accountability in this case is very important for all of us. we want to see that. we want to see that there is the respect of international humanitarian law. it is impossible for us to do ourjob without that. you heard, that that inquiry will be independent. why involve everybody independent. why involve everybody in that inquiry will be idf, senior military figures? i’m in that inquiry will be idf, senior military figures?— in that inquiry will be idf, senior military figures? i'm talking about the israel air _ military figures? i'm talking about the israel air force _ military figures? i'm talking about the israel air force targeting - military figures? i'm talking about the israel air force targeting you | the israel air force targeting you have _ the israel air force targeting you have to _ the israel air force targeting you have to understand the very complex process _ have to understand the very complex process. even for myself, i think i would _ process. even for myself, i think i would not — process. even for myself, i think i would not have the expertise to investigate that so you need to have people _ investigate that so you need to have people with the expertise and the integrity— people with the expertise and the integrity and independence after being _ integrity and independence after being out of the military to understand what happened and to be able to— understand what happened and to be able to understand where exactly the mistake _ able to understand where exactly the mistake was made and what needs to

be mistake was made and what needs to he done _ mistake was made and what needs to he done in _ mistake was made and what needs to be done in the future very quickly to make — be done in the future very quickly to make sure this kind of thing doesn't — to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen again, as aid continues— doesn't happen again, as aid continues to move around the gaza strip and _ continues to move around the gaza strip and needs to get in, in numbers— strip and needs to get in, in numbers as well.— strip and needs to get in, in numbers as well. let's talk more broadly about — numbers as well. let's talk more broadly about trust _ numbers as well. let's talk more broadly about trust in _ numbers as well. let's talk more broadly about trust in israel- numbers as well. let's talk more broadly about trust in israel and | broadly about trust in israel and trust in benjamin netanyahu. there seems to be a change in the mood music around benjamin netanyahu. three things obviously. benny ganz, calling for elections the years earlier than they are billed, thousands of people outside neto gary's has protesting, there have been water can use to add inside panic members of hostages�* family saying that not enough is being done. do you feel that the political mood is changing. the done. do you feel that the political mood is changing.— mood is changing. the question, auoin mood is changing. the question, going back _ mood is changing. the question, going back to — mood is changing. the question, going back to the _ mood is changing. the question, going back to the basics, - mood is changing. the question, going back to the basics, the - going back to the basics, the israelis — going back to the basics, the israelis had been marked by a

societal— israelis had been marked by a societal for sure, and we need a societal, — societal for sure, and we need a societal, we need an event like to a seven— societal, we need an event like to a seven remind israelis that they are in this— seven remind israelis that they are in this together, they help evacuees togelher— in this together, they help evacuees together and they mourn together but you can _ together and they mourn together but you can see _ together and they mourn together but you can see that unity is cracking. there _ you can see that unity is cracking. there was— you can see that unity is cracking. there was a — you can see that unity is cracking. there was a sense domestically that netanyahu has other interests in mind _ netanyahu has other interests in mind in— netanyahu has other interests in mind in addition to winning the war, and that— mind in addition to winning the war, and that is— mind in addition to winning the war, and that is some, you might call it incompetence or mismanagement of the war. incompetence or mismanagement of the war~ we _ incompetence or mismanagement of the war~ we are _ incompetence or mismanagement of the war. we are six months into the war, the hamas— war. we are six months into the war, the hamas leadership is still alive, more _ the hamas leadership is still alive, more than — the hamas leadership is still alive, more than 100 hostages are still in gaza, _ more than 100 hostages are still in gaza, and — more than 100 hostages are still in gaza, and we don't necessarily know where _ gaza, and we don't necessarily know where they— gaza, and we don't necessarily know where they are, the hamas fighting units are _ where they are, the hamas fighting units are still intact, hamas is coming — units are still intact, hamas is coming back to places in the north that forces— coming back to places in the north that forces had recaptured, and then you add _ that forces had recaptured, and then you add the — that forces had recaptured, and then you add the attack on this wck convoy— you add the attack on this wck convoy and you think the management of the _ convoy and you think the management of the war— convoy and you think the management of the war could be better and looking — of the war could be better and looking to the international arena and this— looking to the international arena

and this right will not help there, either. _ and this right will not help there, either, there are serious questions among _ either, there are serious questions among people that are not necessarily auntie netanyahu but want to— necessarily auntie netanyahu but want to see the idf and there is real win — want to see the idf and there is real win this war but won't read this as — real win this war but won't read this as a — real win this war but won't read this as a leadership that will get this as a leadership that will get this done — this as a leadership that will get this done. the cap do you sense, on a day-to-day— this done. the cap do you sense, on a day—to—day basis that benny ganz is finding _ a day—to—day basis that benny ganz is finding it— a day—to—day basis that benny ganz is finding it harder to stay in line? — is finding it harder to stay in line? at— is finding it harder to stay in line? at this point he does not want to be _ line? at this point he does not want to be seen— line? at this point he does not want to be seen to be leaving the ward leadership when you can still influence that more effort but let's not forget, he is the main political rival, _ not forget, he is the main political rival, he _ not forget, he is the main political rival, he lease by fire in the polls and at _ rival, he lease by fire in the polls and at some point he's going to say i and at some point he's going to say i have _ and at some point he's going to say i have political advantage, i can step— i have political advantage, i can step out— i have political advantage, i can step out of this government and try to force _ step out of this government and try to force elections, and he will probably— to force elections, and he will probably get to lead this war and become — probably get to lead this war and become prime minister but she has tried to _ become prime minister but she has tried to do — become prime minister but she has tried to do in the past at some point — tried to do in the past at some point we — tried to do in the past at some point we will see him, remember there _ point we will see him, remember there is— point we will see him, remember there is pressure around the ultraorthodox close allies of netanyahu are starting to be drafted at least _

netanyahu are starting to be drafted at least by law, this week as well so there — at least by law, this week as well so there is— at least by law, this week as well so there is a lot of pressure on his coalition — so there is a lot of pressure on his coalition. . ~' , ., so there is a lot of pressure on his coalition. ., ,, , ., , . coalition. thank you very much indeed for _ coalition. thank you very much indeed forjoining _ coalition. thank you very much indeed forjoining us. - are our appetites for all—electric cars stalling? tesla�*s sales have dipped so far this year, but is that because other marques are becoming more attractive? tesla and the chinese manufacturer byd are now discounting. some say there are signs of a slowdown in the uk too, with some laying blame at the govememnt�*s garage door. accused, by some, of not putting any real oomph into everything from infrastructure or incentives. here�*s ben, with his global tracker. elon musk�*s tesla is the world�*s most valuable car company and also a pure electric car manufacturer, so it�*s a bellwether of the wider electric vehicle market. tesla this week reported disappointing sales in the first three months of 2024 — lower than the same three months in 2023. there�*s been growing talk about the global electric vehicle revolution faltering, and tesla�*s results feed into that sense of anxiety. and here in the uk, by one measure, the share of new cars sold which were purely electric

fractionally declined in 2023. why the anxiety? because road transport accounts for around 12% of all the world�*s carbon emissions. so if we want to get to net zero, we simply have to decarbonise our cars, and electrification is seen as by far the most promising route. so why are electric car sales apparently under pressure? some have cited their high cost, relative to petrol or diesel cars. others, the inadequacy of public charging networks. yet it�*s worth probing whether there really is a major problem here. let�*s use newsnight�*s global tracker to take a look at the numbers. this shows electric and plug—in hybrid vehicle sales as a share of total sales. it�*s been rising very rapidly, hitting almost 16% in 2023. there�*s now estimated to be around 30 million electric vehicles on the planet�*s roads. many analysts actually expect sales to keep growing at a very rapid pace in 2024 and, crucially, for the electric share

of total sales to continue to grow. in other words, they suspect the tesla sales numbers will turn out to be a blip, and that there�*s simply too much momentum behind the electric shift. one of the principal arguments is that average prices are already coming down, as more electric vehicles come onto the crucial second—hand market. and tesla and the chinese electric car giant byd are cutting their new sale prices — not great for their profits, but good for car buyers. though some countries are further down this electric road than others. this shows the uk�*s numbers — 23% of new sales being electric in 2022. as you can see, that�*s decent, compared to the us and europe but lower than china and germany. and well below norway, at an astonishing 88%. why is norway so far ahead? because the norwegian government has made it extremely financially attractive for individual drivers to go electric through taxes and subsidies. and this shows how important government policy

can be in facilitating this shift. some argue the uk government is going in the wrong direction. last autumn, rishi sunak delayed the 2030 ban on new pure petrol and diesel car sales to 2035, on the grounds that it would help people financially. this was welcomed by some car manufacturers, but others said it could undermine corporate investment into the uk car industry. and labour has pledged to restore the 2030 target if they win power. but another important consideration is indeed the charging network. as the independent climate change committee has warned, the network is much more developed in london than other parts of the country. there were around 130 chargers per 100,000 people in 2022 in the capital. that compares to around 55 in the uk as a whole and as few as 19 in northern ireland. now, the whole network has to grow enormously — to around 430 per 100,000 by 2030 — but it has to be even

across the country if there is to be buy—in to this shift in how we get around. a lot of focus has been coordinating as well as charging ensuring that the right charges are being built on the right charges are being built on the right charges are being built on the right places where people need them because at the moment it hews like a little bit of a street wall with companies facing problems of planning, having to wait a ridiculous amount of time to get planning application to install charges that he will need as we make the transition electric vehicles. —— the transition electric vehicles. —— the transition electric vehicles. —— the transition to electric vehicles. even those experts who think there�*s still strong momentum behind the electric vehicle transition agree there�*s a role for governments in making it a smoothjourney, and ensuring that everyone is a willing passenger. well, for more on this, we are joined in the studio by motoring expert stuart masson, and from wiltshire by brian clegg, a science writer.

if we are going to go hard on decarbonisation then electric cars are crucial. is this a blip or was it a problem? it are crucial. is this a blip or was it a problem?— are crucial. is this a blip or was it a problem? it is more of a blip that a problem. _ it a problem? it is more of a blip that a problem. electric- it a problem? it is more of a blip that a problem. electric cars - it a problem? it is more of a blip that a problem. electric cars are| that a problem. electric cars are growing part with any growth pattern there will be peaks and troughs along the way. there will be peaks and troughs along the way-— there will be peaks and troughs alon: the wa . , ., , along the way. explained why were so far behind norway. _ along the way. explained why were so far behind norway. norway _ along the way. explained why were so far behind norway. norway is - along the way. explained why were so far behind norway. norway is a - far behind norway. norway is a secial far behind norway. norway is a special case — far behind norway. norway is a special case by _ far behind norway. norway is a special case by world _ far behind norway. norway is a | special case by world standards. far behind norway. norway is a i special case by world standards. it has poured huge amounts of money largely financed from their oil money into electric cars. they are phasing out petrol and diesel cars much faster than anywhere else on the planet. uk ahead of the curve compared to most markets but certainly not right at the front of the queue. certainly not right at the front of the queue-— certainly not right at the front of the queue. certainly not right at the front of the rueue. �* ., ., ., the queue. brian clegg, have we gone about electric — the queue. brian clegg, have we gone about electric cars _ the queue. brian clegg, have we gone about electric cars the _ the queue. brian clegg, have we gone about electric cars the wrong - the queue. brian clegg, have we gone about electric cars the wrong way? - the queue. brian clegg, have we gone about electric cars the wrong way? i i about electric cars the wrong way? i think we have. because in the end, if we _ think we have. because in the end, if we are _ think we have. because in the end, if we are going to do this, and i desperately want us to do it, because _ desperately want us to do it, because climate change are crucial, we have _ because climate change are crucial, we have to consider the range and cost of— we have to consider the range and cost of these things and the charging, and were falling behind on all of them —

charging, and were falling behind on all of them. so, the range is simply not good _ all of them. so, the range is simply not good enough and it falls ridiculously in the winter, when some _ ridiculously in the winter, when some cars _ ridiculously in the winter, when some cars dropping 46% in cold weather~ — some cars dropping 46% in cold weather. the pricing might be coming down but _ weather. the pricing might be coming down but the cheapest petrol car is 13,500, _ down but the cheapest petrol car is 13,500, the cheapest electric car, 26, 13,500, the cheapest electric car, 26. 20 _ 13,500, the cheapest electric car, 26, 20 7000. 13,500, the cheapest electric car, 26. 20 7000.— 13,500, the cheapest electric car, 26, 20 7000. you spoke about the battery dropping — 26, 20 7000. you spoke about the battery dropping charges _ 26, 20 7000. you spoke about the battery dropping charges by - 26, 20 7000. you spoke about the battery dropping charges by 4696 i 26, 20 7000. you spoke about the| battery dropping charges by 4696 in battery dropping charges by 46% in winter. that is shocking. people cannot afford to have a electric car thatis cannot afford to have a electric car that is more expensive than petrol or diesel, then you have to spend the money on charging and to find charges. we the money on charging and to find charaes. ~ , ., .,' the money on charging and to find char es, . , ., .,' ., the money on charging and to find charaes. ~ , ., .,' ., ., charges. we start off with a range ical of charges. we start off with a range typical of her— charges. we start off with a range typical of her than _ charges. we start off with a range typical of her than the _ charges. we start off with a range typical of her than the equivalent | typical of her than the equivalent price _ typical of her than the equivalent price petrol car, so, to date, we have _ price petrol car, so, to date, we have figures _ price petrol car, so, to date, we have figures plucked out of the air, so when _ have figures plucked out of the air, so when we — have figures plucked out of the air, so when we got a figure in 2030 originally— so when we got a figure in 2030 originally there was no science behind — originally there was no science behind that. i bought science behind

that and _ behind that. i bought science behind that and a _ behind that. i bought science behind that and a good investigation into what _ that and a good investigation into what we — that and a good investigation into what we need to do, to get from where we — what we need to do, to get from where we are now to where we should be, and _ where we are now to where we should be, and that _ where we are now to where we should be, and that means dealing with range _ be, and that means dealing with range cost— be, and that means dealing with range cost and charging. if be, and that means dealing with range cost and charging.- be, and that means dealing with range cost and charging. if the cost of a car offset _ range cost and charging. if the cost of a car offset purely _ range cost and charging. if the cost of a car offset purely by _ range cost and charging. if the cost of a car offset purely by the - of a car offset purely by the fact that it of a car offset purely by the fact thatitis of a car offset purely by the fact that it is cheaper to run? to a decree, that it is cheaper to run? to a degree. and _ that it is cheaper to run? to a degree, and over _ that it is cheaper to run? to a degree, and over the - that it is cheaper to run? to a degree, and over the life - that it is cheaper to run? to a degree, and over the life of. that it is cheaper to run? to a degree, and over the life of a| that it is cheaper to run? trr a. degree, and over the life of a car, the electric car is more cost efficient and it will vary whether you are charging at home, whether it is much cheaper, if you are charging publicly, it takes a lot longer. hagar publicly, it takes a lot longer. how concerning — publicly, it takes a lot longer. how concerning these _ publicly, it takes a lot longer. how concerning these figures for you, when you look at the fact that the chinese car, tesla, are discounting, it has an impact on the resale of second—hand electric cars, and other marques are revolving but are we experiencing a downturn?-

experiencing a downturn? range anxie is experiencing a downturn? range anxiety is for _ experiencing a downturn? range anxiety is for many _ experiencing a downturn? range anxiety is for many users - experiencing a downturn? range . anxiety is for many users something of a myth. more than 90% of electric vehicle owners would replace their car with another electric vehicle so they are not finding it to be a real—world problem. the average uk is nine miles, the average household does 120 miles a week and that is well within the range of most the —— within range of most evs. so well within the range of most the -- within range of most evs._ well within the range of most the -- within range of most evs. so the cut off from 2030, _ within range of most evs. so the cut off from 2030, to _ within range of most evs. so the cut off from 2030, to 2035, _ within range of most evs. so the cut off from 2030, to 2035, is _ within range of most evs. so the cut off from 2030, to 2035, is that - off from 2030, to 2035, is that realistic? ~ ., , ,, ., ,, �* realistic? what rishi sunak didn't chance realistic? what rishi sunak didn't change was _ realistic? what rishi sunak didn't change was the _ realistic? what rishi sunak didn't change was the zero _ realistic? what rishi sunak didn't change was the zero emission - realistic? what rishi sunak didn't - change was the zero emission vehicle mandate which came to mandate this year and it was the same before and after his return, saying that 80% of new cars must be electric, by 2030, that has not changed, all he has changed is what the other 20% of cars can be. for changed is what the other 2096 of cars can be— cars can be. for you, brian, what would be — cars can be. for you, brian, what would be the _ cars can be. for you, brian, what would be the biggest _ cars can be. for you, brian, what would be the biggest boost to - would be the biggest boost to driving an electric car, what has to

change, infrastructure, incentives, batteries? . , change, infrastructure, incentives, batteries? ., , ., batteries? ideally, all three. some work has been _ batteries? ideally, all three. some work has been done _ batteries? ideally, all three. some work has been done on _ batteries? ideally, all three. some work has been done on it - batteries? ideally, all three. some work has been done on it but - batteries? ideally, all three. somej work has been done on it but we're not there _ work has been done on it but we're not there yet. the charging infrastructure is frankly terrible. at the _ infrastructure is frankly terrible. at the moment, we have around 90,000 petrol— at the moment, we have around 90,000 petrol pumps _ at the moment, we have around 90,000 petrol pumps in the country, we have about _ petrol pumps in the country, we have about 4500 _ petrol pumps in the country, we have about 4500 ultrafast electric charges, the only ones that can charge — charges, the only ones that can charge up— charges, the only ones that can charge up to any reasonable level on a long _ charge up to any reasonable level on a long distance journey. and i would point _ a long distance journey. and i would point out _ a long distance journey. and i would point out as we heard earlier, london — point out as we heard earlier, london has this great uptake. the rest of— london has this great uptake. the rest of the — london has this great uptake. the rest of the country does not and some _ rest of the country does not and some are — rest of the country does not and some are like wiltshire, we do not have the _ some are like wiltshire, we do not have the charges and we have the people _ have the charges and we have the people who make the longerjourneys. it is people driving around cities who are driving these nine male distances. — who are driving these nine male distances, not somebody in the countryside or even in a small town. if countryside or even in a small town. if a labour— countryside or even in a small town. if a labour government was to get in but you see a change in emphasis? i but you see a change in emphasis? i certainly hope that we would have a change _ certainly hope that we would have a change in _ certainly hope that we would have a change in emphasis. because we needed — change in emphasis. because we needed. this is a really important

thing _ needed. this is a really important thing i_ needed. this is a really important thing i am — needed. this is a really important thing. i am 100% behind electric cars but— thing. i am 100% behind electric cars but we are not putting their money— cars but we are not putting their money into it, we are not putting the infrastructure in and without that, _ the infrastructure in and without that, you — the infrastructure in and without that, you might as well say, we will io that, you might as well say, we will go all— that, you might as well say, we will go all electric next week, we have 'ust go all electric next week, we have just announced it, but it is not going — just announced it, but it is not going to — just announced it, but it is not going to make anything happen. the same _ going to make anything happen. the same is _ going to make anything happen. the same is not — going to make anything happen. the same is not going to happen here if we don't _ same is not going to happen here if we don't have that infrastructure, better— we don't have that infrastructure, better range and subsidy to reduce prices _ better range and subsidy to reduce rices. ~ ., ., , .,, better range and subsidy to reduce rices. ~ ., ., , ., prices. what would it be open to labour to do. — prices. what would it be open to labour to do, in _ prices. what would it be open to labour to do, in terms _ prices. what would it be open to labour to do, in terms of- prices. what would it be open to i labour to do, in terms of subsidy, to boost sales?— labour to do, in terms of subsidy, to boost sales? what any government has to do, regardless _ to boost sales? what any government has to do, regardless of— to boost sales? what any government has to do, regardless of what - has to do, regardless of what happens in the election, we need number one, two and three, charging infrastructure, that is the real cork and the bottle for electric car technology at the moment. the ukranian president, volodymyr zelensky, has enacted a bill reducing the conscription age from 27 to 25, a bill that was approved by lawmakers last may. earlier this year, newsnight visited ukraine to look at the country�*s struggle to replenish the ranks.

two years into the war, the army is exhausted and, to a degree, stalled, as putin boasts of increasing his forces by 100,000 since the beginning of the year. this will be on nato leaders�* minds this evening, as the foreign ministers of the 32 countries in the alliance — including, for the first time, sweden — are gathered in brussels to celebrate nato�*s founding 75 years ago tomorrow, on the 4th of april 1949, in the aftermath of world war ii. its purpose remains unchanged — to guaranteee the freedom and security of its members through political and military means. last year�*s summit culminated in unanimous agreement that ukraine�*s future lies in nato, but the timeline is undetermined. and then, there�*s the money. 19 of the 32 members are on track to hit the designated target of spend on defence of 2% of gdp — so 13 are not, and that, in itself, is a hugejeopardy. in a moment, i�*ll be talking to general sir richard barrons, former commander ofjoint forces command, about nato�*s priorties. but first, earlier this evening i spoke to oleksiy goncharenko, the ukrainian mp and reservist,

about zelensky�*s new call to arms. it�*s clear that it�*s unpopular, because those who wanted to fight voluntarily, they did it from 2022. so, now, mobilisation is not a popular thing. and i think that my president was dragging his feet with this for a long time. finally, he made a decision and signed the law. yes, finally made the decision and signed the law. and as you said, a lot of people are fatigued, morale is low. i can�*t say that morale is low in the country. people are tired, people are exhausted. it�*s more than ten years of war, more than two years of full—scale invasion. but i can�*t say that morale is low, because everybody understands that

what we are fighting for ends russian genocide against ukrainians in occupied territories. so if they will win, they will kill all of us and they will take our children, and you, british people, polish, baltic states, romanians and others. so we know the price, we know what is at stake. and i think that it was a fair move from president zelensky, and he should do this probably even earlier. but the most important is that anyway, we cannot fight with russia just by numbers of people. if we will mobilise 200,000, they will mobilise 500,000. if we will mobilise 1 million, they will mobilise 3 million. they are much bigger, from a manpower point of view. so, yes, we need people, but more, we need more effective weaponry from our allies, we need smart strategy and smart tactics. you�*re a trained military leader. do you think the strategy is changing now, and will it change again?

because in a sense, neither you nor russia have actually made that much territory. yeah, and for the moment, i don�*t think big changes or change in general from general zaluzhny and general syrsky. but when you�*re speaking about, yeah, another russian loss and real successes on deterrence, but we have real successes on the black sea. and i think this should be a lesson. and in the black sea, we are fighting with russians by sea drones, by really innovative strategy and tactics, and it gives fantastic results. ukraine, having no fleet, destroyed a significant part of the russian black sea fleet to keep russia out from the northern—western part of the black sea, opened the corridors for its export and so on.

what you�*re wanting is a longer—term commitment to funding for ukraine five years. now, with a us election coming up, with 13 of nato countries not producing 2% of gdp in defence spending, money is going to be tight. what chance that you actually get that level of funding? i think, i hope that we will get it. but the most important, we need to become a member of nato. and nato should be strong enough to really protect its territory. because when russian missiles are flying in polish airspace and not being intercepted, when russian drones are falling on romanian territory without any results or consequences, that�*s exactly the sign for putin that he can increase the pressure. and sooner or later, he will be emboldened enough to attack nato countries. so the only way to avoid it is to help ukraine now and to take ukraine in nato, where we will be probably the second strongest army to take conventional

weaponry and battle—hardened people up to the united states of america. and i think this is the only way to have really security in europe, and to stop russian aggression. so, what next for nato? i�*m joined now by sir richard barrens, who was commander of thejoint forces command from 2013 to 2016, who served as a general on nato operations. thank you very much forjoining us, it is a pretty big day tomorrow, 75 years. and i know we will talk about the fact that you think if nato is going to survive and thrive, it needs to change and as it were modernised. but let�*s quickly talk about ukraine. it is inevitable ukraine mps will say we need to get into nato now and we will save europe as it were from putin, but the reality is you are not going to have any nato to survive, are you? ukraine is not going tojoin nato a war with russia because the day ukrainejoined nato is the war with russia because the day ukraine joined nato is the day ukraine joined nato is the day ukraine gives up any thought of taking that territory held by russia. 50 taking that territory held by russia. ., ,

russia. so then the argument is ukraine is _ russia. so then the argument is ukraine is the _ russia. so then the argument is ukraine is the only _ russia. so then the argument is ukraine is the only country - russia. so then the argument is ukraine is the only country that| russia. so then the argument is i ukraine is the only country that can actually stop putin if you were talking about a eu deterrent force? we need to be clear that the west in europe in particular is locked in a confrontation with europe —— russia and that confrontation is wider and will go way beyond the outcome of the war in ukraine. abs, will go way beyond the outcome of the war in ukraine.— the war in ukraine. a military confrontation _ the war in ukraine. a military confrontation or— the war in ukraine. a military confrontation orjust - the war in ukraine. a military confrontation orjust a - confrontation or just a confrontation? confrontation or 'ust a confrontation?h confrontation or 'ust a confrontation? ., , ., ., , confrontation? no, it is a military confrontation _ confrontation? no, it is a military confrontation because _ confrontation? no, it is a military confrontation because military . confrontation? no, it is a military confrontation because military --j confrontation because military —— nato is having to reset its deterrence in fear of what russia may elect to do once it has finished in ukraine. it�*s may elect to do once it has finished in ukraine. �* , , may elect to do once it has finished in ukraine-— in ukraine. it's interesting because do ou in ukraine. it's interesting because do you think _ in ukraine. it's interesting because do you think there _ in ukraine. it's interesting because do you think there is _ in ukraine. it's interesting because do you think there is a _ in ukraine. it's interesting because do you think there is a real - in ukraine. it's interesting because do you think there is a real danger| do you think there is a real danger of a wider conflagration in europe taking in the uk within the next three to four years?— taking in the uk within the next three to four years? there is no scri t, three to four years? there is no script. there — three to four years? there is no script, there is _ three to four years? there is no script, there is no _ three to four years? there is no script, there is no guarantee . three to four years? there is no i script, there is no guarantee about how world affairs turnout. if world affairs are handled really badly, was can happen for very bad reason so you couldn�*t rule it out, and the way to root out is by restoring credible deterrence by nato. that

means obviously _ credible deterrence by nato. that means obviously spend —— to rule it out. 13 countries in nato do not spend sufficiently, as i said earlier. it is notjust surely if donald trump gets in, but alsojoe biden, do you think america will take the chance of not spending so much to help others out? i take the chance of not spending so much to help others out?— much to help others out? i think it has been clear— much to help others out? i think it has been clear for _ much to help others out? i think it has been clear for about _ much to help others out? i think it has been clear for about ten - much to help others out? i think it has been clear for about ten years| has been clear for about ten years that us presidents and vice presidents have been saying they will spend less on european defence and that is because the us priority is china. they have a massive debt problem and a border problem and they are looking at a very wealthy europe which can afford to pay for its own defence. the us doesn�*t see why it picks up two thirds of the bill any longer. why it picks up two thirds of the billany longer. so why it picks up two thirds of the bill any longer. so regardless of the outcome of the election, which might affect quantity and time, europe is going to have to pick up a bigger bill for its defence, just as it has to ramp up its deterrence in particular against russia.- particular against russia. finally in love, i particular against russia. finally in love. lwas— particular against russia. finally in love, i was saying _ particular against russia. finally in love, i was saying do - particular against russia. finally in love, i was saying do you - particular against russia. finally | in love, i was saying do you think ukraine wants a lot of money over the next five years pushed —— funnily enough. it needs 80 billion

a year, will it get that from nato? ukraine needs about 40 billion a yearfor each year it ukraine needs about 40 billion a year for each year it is fighting, so let�*s assume that is five years, it is about another $40 billion a year to balance its books and pay for its health and education and the rest of its public sector. that sounds a lot, but the combined western economy of about $30 trillion a year means that is actually affordable. it is really about leadership and mobilisation. but leadership and mobilisation in europe, you think nato needs to be transformed how? mata europe, you think nato needs to be transformed how?— transformed how? nato has already said it will transform _ transformed how? nato has already said it will transform and _ transformed how? nato has already said it will transform and it - transformed how? nato has already said it will transform and it has - transformed how? nato has already said it will transform and it has a i said it will transform and it has a new strategic concept. it is returning to what it calls deterrence by denial, which means it is able to credibly say to russia cannot leave us alone. and that will cost some money.— cost some money. deterrence is cheaper than — cost some money. deterrence is cheaper than war, obviously. - cost some money. deterrence is - cheaper than war, obviously. one of the key lessons of _ cheaper than war, obviously. one of the key lessons of ukraine is - the key lessons of ukraine is deterrence is so much better than ending upfighting, deterrence is so much better than ending up fighting, just look at the cost of what is coming out of ukraine. �* ., ukraine. but at the same time, deterrence _ ukraine. but at the same time, deterrence is _ ukraine. but at the same time, deterrence is better _ ukraine. but at the same time, deterrence is better than - ukraine. but at the same time, i deterrence is better than fighting, but what i think you are saying is

nato needs to invest essentially in defence and defence spending needs to go up in defence manufacturers need to be supported in europe. mata need to be supported in europe. nato is wrestlin: need to be supported in europe. nato is wrestling with _ need to be supported in europe. liatf: is wrestling with three or four difficult issues and one is the us is going to do less, so going to have to find more money. the second is it is in a confrontation with russia, which means going back to deterrence by denial, which will require more spending money to be spent better. nato is approaching this with the armed forces that pretty much it has ended up with as a result of the decline through the post cold war. which is explicable, but no longer acceptable. and finally, technology is changing how war is fought, so we�*re not talking about recreating the old nato, but developing a new digital age of nato that will take time and money. time and money- — that will take time and money. time and money- do _ that will take time and money. time and money. do you _ that will take time and money. time and money. do you have _ that will take time and money. time and money. do you have the expertise at your fingers to do that and do it swiftly? 50 at your fingers to do that and do it swiftl ? ,, ., at your fingers to do that and do it swiftl ? . .., at your fingers to do that and do it swiftl ? . , , swiftly? so the technical expertise exist in the _ swiftly? so the technical expertise exist in the west, _ swiftly? so the technical expertise exist in the west, for _ swiftly? so the technical expertise exist in the west, for sure. - swiftly? so the technical expertise exist in the west, for sure. the i exist in the west, for sure. the military leadership exists, for sure. what is in doubt is where our

political leaders can understand and grasp and mobilise around