we have made this change, it is raw information, real time, the algorithm is like gold. this is really about controlling americans data. and if we cared about americans data then we would stop the sale of americans data universally. this is not an attempt to ban tiktok it's an attempt to make tiktok better. tic—tac—toe. and on our panel tonight we have paulwaugh, columnist for the i newspaper, and elise labott, contributing editor at politico. first — the latest headlines. the un agency for palestinian refugees says a staff member was among five people killed in an apparent israeli airstrike on its food distribution centre in southern gaza.

unrwa said the strike was carried out despite the centre's location being given to israeli forces. one of the main leaders vying for power in haiti has rejected an agreement that led to the resignation of the prime minister, ariel henry, on monday. guy philippe, who served a prison sentence in the us for drug trafficking, says he's planning peaceful protests against the deal. far—right dutch politician, geert wilders, has failed in his bid to become the country's prime minister. his anti— migrant freedom party emerged as the biggest after elections in november but coalition talks have repeatedly broken down. the european parliament has approved what it calls trailblazing new rules on the use of artificial intelligence. the ai act regulates the technology according to risk. there's one more step to go before the eu formally adopts the legislation later this year.

for some time now the governments in europe and the united states have identified. tiktok as a threat to their national security. it is owned by bytedance, a company in beijing. and in theory, like any other chinese company it is obliged to turn over any personal data relevant to china s national security. today the us house of representatives took an unprecedented decion. by an overwhelming majority they voted for a ban. strictly speaking it is a forced sale. if the bill is approved by the senate, then tiktok will need to be under new ownership within 180 days. but then how easy will it be to find a buyer, for a social media that has 170m users. and if this is about protecting american data when what sort of precedent does this set. this is really about controlling america's data. and if we cared about americans data then we would stop the sale

of a americans data universally. notjust with china. tiktok is a threat to our national security because it's it's owned security because it's owned by bytedance which start the bidding of the chinese communist party. we know this because bytedance leadership says so and because chinese law requires it. this bill therefore forces tiktok to break up with the chinese communist party. it does not apply to american companies. it only applies to companies subject to the control of foreign adversaries as defined by congress. the bill is written so broadly - that the president could abuse that discretion and include other companies that are just - social media companies. this is not an attempt to ban tiktok. it's an attempt to make tiktok better. tic—tac—toe, a winner. a winner. if the legislation is passed, it could make the sale price cheaper. but matchmaking on acquisitions is not quick, or straightforward. the anti trust rules are much

tougher since facebook bought instagram, similar buy outs have been successfully challenged. and that is presuming the chinese would go along with a sale. here's how the chinese foreign ministry reacted after the vote. translation: this kind of conduct of resorting to bullying and failures of winning and fair competition disrupts business operation, frustrates internationals investors and undermines the normal international economic and trade order in the end it is bound to come back to bite the us itself. caitlin chin—rothmann, is a tech policy researcher at the centre for strategic and international studies. thank you for being with us. lawmakers went into a private briefing and emerged saying that it all felt a little thin. what evidence is using that tick—tock does pose a threat to national security? does pose a threat to national securi ? ~' ., ~' does pose a threat to national securi ? ~' ~ does pose a threat to national securi ? ~ ~ ., ., security? -- tiktok. we have not been presented _ security? -- tiktok. we have not been presented with _ security? -- tiktok. we have not

been presented with very - security? -- tiktok. we have not been presented with very clear i been presented with very clear public evidence of what tiktok is donein public evidence of what tiktok is done in the past in terms of transferring personal information to the chinese government or allowing chinese government to control its algorithms. which are the two risk that us lawmakers have stated. even though there are concerns that the chinese government could potentially take these actions in the future lawmakers have not actually presented the public with any clear evidence of this happening in the past. evidence of this happening in the ast. ~ , evidence of this happening in the ast. ~ ., ., evidence of this happening in the ast. ., ., , , evidence of this happening in the ast. ~ ., ., , , ., ., past. who's gonna buy it and how cuickl past. who's gonna buy it and how quickly could _ past. who's gonna buy it and how quickly could be _ past. who's gonna buy it and how quickly could be done, _ past. who's gonna buy it and howj quickly could be done, presuming chinese will sell? it’s quickly could be done, presuming chinese will sell?— chinese will sell? it's going to be a ve , chinese will sell? it's going to be a very. very _ chinese will sell? it's going to be a very. very tough _ chinese will sell? it's going to be a very, very tough act _ chinese will sell? it's going to be a very, very tough act to sell- chinese will sell? it's going to be a very, very tough act to sell forl a very, very tough act to sell for many reasons for them —— tough act to sell for the chinese will likely try to block the sale through export control laws that prevent sales of technologies for the tiktok is a giant app. it has increased its audience and its sighs significantly since it was first banned in 2020 for the many buyers going to have to

be very wealthy. it's going to have resources and need a significant amount of risk tolerance. the chance that the sale not going through for many reasons whether that's due to uis antitrust laws are chinese export control laws or even just logistical or technological reasons why tiktok would have trouble divesting. it's going to be very, very difficult if not impossible to carry out divestment. i very difficult if not impossible to carry out divestment.— very difficult if not impossible to carry out divestment. i was having a look at how — carry out divestment. i was having a look at how many _ carry out divestment. i was having a look at how many people _ carry out divestment. i was having a look at how many people want - carry out divestment. i was having a look at how many people want to i carry out divestment. i was having a i look at how many people want to come out 170 million, of course. the average american spends an hour a day on tiktok the former vice president mike pence called it digitalfentanyl for america's digital fentanyl for america's youth. is there digitalfentanyl for america's youth. is there a risk digital fentanyl for america's youth. is there a risk that they might have to go cold turkey if i buyer can't be found? are they going to switch it off? in buyer can't be found? are they going to switch it off?— to switch it off? in interesting argument _ to switch it off? in interesting argument calling _ to switch it off? in interesting argument calling and - to switch it off? in interesting argument calling and that - to switch it off? in interesting - argument calling and that popular among americans and there's no reason why should be banned. using

social media become incredibly addictive in the lives of americans in generalfor the words addictive in the lives of americans in general for the words tiktok, instagram, tvs or computers. this isn't something new. i think if tiktok were to be banned the immediate beneficiaries would likely be tiktok cckk competitors without instagram or youtube or facebook. but there isn't any direct substitute for tiktok in the short term. tiktok occupies a unique niche in our culture. i do think that if tiktok were to be banned tiktok users would either have to find another way to express themselves or many tiktok posters will stop posting online or videos the same way they were using tiktok in the past. let's bring in our panel now — paul waugh and elise labott. i thought it was interesting that joe biden said he would sign if it's passed by the senate. if you look at

what maggio world is that of the last week model trump said he didn't want more power being handed to use zuckerberg and that we have kelly and conway is former adviser who is lobbying for tiktok on the hill. if you look at the boat is quite interesting who voted against the bill. , , ., bill. there is this whole conglomerate - bill. there is this whole conglomerate of - bill. there is this whole i conglomerate of alliances. bill. there is this whole - conglomerate of alliances. you bill. there is this whole _ conglomerate of alliances. you see these _ conglomerate of alliances. you see these maggot conservatives with total progresses like alexander cortes — total progresses like alexander cortes with marjorie taylor green and others put of it so interesting who some — and others put of it so interesting who some of our voting together for and against. it's this rare show of bipartisanship on both sides of it. but i _ bipartisanship on both sides of it. but i think— bipartisanship on both sides of it. but i think is interesting is that president — but i think is interesting is that president biden says that he will si-n president biden says that he will sign the — president biden says that he will sign the bill yet he justjoined with_ sign the bill yet he justjoined with an — sign the bill yet he justjoined with an account for his campaign because — with an account for his campaign because he really needs to reach young _ because he really needs to reach young people. while donald trump is saying _ young people. while donald trump is saying he _ young people. while donald trump is saying he wants it but he is not

doing _ saying he wants it but he is not doing anything on tiktok. there has been speculation here in the united states_ been speculation here in the united states that with all this money that he needs_ states that with all this money that he needs to pay off all these court cases. _ he needs to pay off all these court cases. the — he needs to pay off all these court cases, the question is is he taking money— cases, the question is is he taking money from — cases, the question is is he taking money from china because he doesn't have a _ money from china because he doesn't have a lot _ money from china because he doesn't have a lot of— money from china because he doesn't have a lot of sources of money. i have _ have a lot of sources of money. i have nothing to indicate that. i'm 'ust have nothing to indicate that. i'm just saying — have nothing to indicate that. i'm just saying there is a lot of speculation. there is a reason that he's leaning — speculation. there is a reason that he's leaning very forward... i did sa the he's leaning very forward... i did say the other— he's leaning very forward... i did say the other night _ he's leaning very forward... i did say the other night he _ he's leaning very forward... i c c say the other night he has a hedge fund manager that has a 30 billion stake in tiktok. shortly after that they seem to have a different opinion about it. i don't know whether that is behind it but it might seem to reason. elise is right, the way politicians use it is fascinating. you've gotjoe biden standing his kitchen on tiktok for that we've got grant shops in kyiv using tiktok. michelle donald r sign secretary who is using it, appearing in an american—style yearbook. and yet all say it should be banned from

governments computers and tablets. inaudible. are you muted, paul? politicians on the side of the pond are as _ politicians on the side of the pond are as conflicted _ politicians on the side of the pond are as conflicted about _ politicians on the side of the pond are as conflicted about tiktok- politicians on the side of the pond are as conflicted about tiktok as i are as conflicted about tiktok as they are — are as conflicted about tiktok as they are in — are as conflicted about tiktok as they are in america. _ are as conflicted about tiktok as they are in america. they- are as conflicted about tiktok as they are in america. they ban i are as conflicted about tiktok as - they are in america. they ban tiktok from _ they are in america. they ban tiktok from use _ they are in america. they ban tiktok from use on— they are in america. they ban tiktok from use on government _ they are in america. they ban tiktok from use on government machines. from use on government machines here, _ from use on government machines here, tablets. _ from use on government machines here, tablets, phones, _ from use on government machines here, tablets, phones, it's- from use on government machines here, tablets, phones, it's bannedj here, tablets, phones, it's banned from _ here, tablets, phones, it's banned from the _ here, tablets, phones, it's banned from the parliamentary— here, tablets, phones, it's banned from the parliamentary wi—fi - here, tablets, phones, it's banned . from the parliamentary wi—fi system and yet _ from the parliamentary wi—fi system and yet the _ from the parliamentary wi—fi system and yet the defence _ from the parliamentary wi—fi system and yet the defence secretary - from the parliamentary wi—fi system and yet the defence secretary uses l and yet the defence secretary uses it. and yet the defence secretary uses it the _ and yet the defence secretary uses it. the minister— and yet the defence secretary uses it. the minister of— and yet the defence secretary uses it. the minister of defence - and yet the defence secretary uses it. the minister of defence has - and yet the defence secretary uses it. the minister of defence has a i it. the minister of defence has a tiktok— it. the minister of defence has a tiktok account, _ it. the minister of defence has a tiktok account, the _ it. the minister of defence has a tiktok account, the army, - it. the minister of defence has a tiktok account, the army, the l it. the minister of defence has a - tiktok account, the army, the navy, the air— tiktok account, the army, the navy, the air force — tiktok account, the army, the navy, the air force all— tiktok account, the army, the navy, the air force all of _ tiktok account, the army, the navy, the air force all of tiktok _ the air force all of tiktok accounts for the _ the air force all of tiktok accounts for the why? — the air force all of tiktok accounts for the why? they _ the air force all of tiktok accounts for the why? they want _ the air force all of tiktok accounts for the why? they want to - the air force all of tiktok accounts for the why? they want to get - for the why? they want to get through— for the why? they want to get through the _ for the why? they want to get through the young _ for the why? they want to get through the young people - for the why? they want to get through the young people to i for the why? they want to get - through the young people to tackle the recruitment— through the young people to tackle the recruitment problem _ through the young people to tackle the recruitment problem for- through the young people to tackle the recruitment problem for the i the recruitment problem for the military — the recruitment problem for the military you _ the recruitment problem for the military. you can— the recruitment problem for the military. you can see _ the recruitment problem for the military. you can see all- the recruitment problem for the military. you can see all the - the recruitment problem for the. military. you can see all the time that conflict — military. you can see all the time that conflict going _ military. you can see all the time that conflict going on _ military. you can see all the time that conflict going on on - military. you can see all the time that conflict going on on both - military. you can see all the time i that conflict going on on both sides of the _ that conflict going on on both sides of the atlantic. _ that conflict going on on both sides of the atlantic. what's _ that conflict going on on both sides of the atlantic. what's interesting i of the atlantic. what's interesting is the _ of the atlantic. what's interesting is the way— of the atlantic. what's interesting is the way those _ of the atlantic. what's interesting is the way those progressives, - of the atlantic. what's interesting is the way those progressives, 50| is the way those progressives, 50 democrats — is the way those progressives, 50 democrats today _ is the way those progressives, 50 democrats today voted _ is the way those progressives, 50 democrats today voted against i is the way those progressives, 50| democrats today voted against his band democrats today voted against his hand today — democrats today voted against his hand today one _ democrats today voted against his band today. one of _ democrats today voted against his band today. one of them - democrats today voted against his band today. one of them is - democrats today voted against his band today. one of them is the i democrats today voted against his i band today. one of them is the only gen 2_ band today. one of them is the only gen z representative _ band today. one of them is the only gen z representative in _ band today. one of them is the only. gen z representative in congress was

up gen z representative in congress was up he said _ gen z representative in congress was up he said im — gen z representative in congress was up he said im not— gen z representative in congress was up he said i'm not convinced, - gen z representative in congress was up he said i'm not convinced, some . up he said i'm not convinced, some of the _ up he said i'm not convinced, some of the progressive _ up he said i'm not convinced, some of the progressive said _ up he said i'm not convinced, some of the progressive said they- up he said i'm not convinced, some of the progressive said they had - of the progressive said they had that intelligence _ of the progressive said they had that intelligence briefing, - of the progressive said they had that intelligence briefing, it- of the progressive said they had that intelligence briefing, it was indeed — that intelligence briefing, it was indeed thin _ that intelligence briefing, it was indeed thin. you _ that intelligence briefing, it was indeed thin. you have _ that intelligence briefing, it was indeed thin. you have to - that intelligence briefing, it was indeed thin. you have to ask- indeed thin. you have to ask yourself, _ indeed thin. you have to ask yourself, is— indeed thin. you have to ask yourself, is it— indeed thin. you have to ask yourself, is it really- indeed thin. you have to ask yourself, is it really a - indeed thin. you have to ask. yourself, is it really a genuine security— yourself, is it really a genuine security threat— yourself, is it really a genuine security threat or— yourself, is it really a genuine security threat or really - yourself, is it really a genuine security threat or really a - security threat or really a commercial— security threat or really a commercial thread? - security threat or really a commercial thread? is. security threat or really a l commercial thread? is that security threat or really a - commercial thread? is that what really— commercial thread? is that what really is — commercial thread? is that what really is the _ commercial thread? is that what really is the problem? _ commercial thread? is that what really is the problem? the?- commercial thread? is that what really is the problem?— commercial thread? is that what really is the problem? they put this notice on tiktok _ really is the problem? they put this notice on tiktok which _ really is the problem? they put this notice on tiktok which they're - notice on tiktok which they're sending out to users urging them to get in touch with their congressional representatives. chip roy who is a texas republican who voted for the bill today said that that kind of felt like they shot themselves in the foot for that said bringing the full court press demonstrated they want to use the power of technology to persuade and inform people through their viewpoint unsettles me. that's why he voted for the bill today. there has been this very active lobbying for that what you think will happen now it goes to the senate? the said it doesn't really _ now it goes to the senate? the said it doesn't really see _ now it goes to the senate? the said it doesn't really see as _ now it goes to the senate? the said it doesn't really see as much - it doesn't really see as much evidence, _ it doesn't really see as much evidence, perhaps they will be more

briefings _ evidence, perhaps they will be more briefings and make the case with the leader— briefings and make the case with the leader of— briefings and make the case with the leader of the senate chuck schumer said he _ leader of the senate chuck schumer said he didn't see a compelling case for it _ said he didn't see a compelling case for it you _ said he didn't see a compelling case for it. you make it very good point. it's for it. you make it very good point. it's not _ for it. you make it very good point. it's not only— for it. you make it very good point. it's not only about the data because one of— it's not only about the data because one of the _ it's not only about the data because one of the huge tech companies hear oracle _ one of the huge tech companies hear oracle right— one of the huge tech companies hear oracle right now is storing the data — oracle right now is storing the data. there are ways to get around the data _ data. there are ways to get around the data issue. but it's also about the data issue. but it's also about the algorithm and just what you said about— the algorithm and just what you said about narrative and points of view. i about narrative and points of view. i will _ about narrative and points of view. i will point — about narrative and points of view. i will point out that this week the director— i will point out that this week the director of— i will point out that this week the director of national intelligence put director of national intelligence out out — director of national intelligence put out this report on global threats— put out this report on global threats and cia director bill burns they were — threats and cia director bill burns they were before capitol hill talking — they were before capitol hill talking about tiktok and i wasn't 'ust talking about tiktok and i wasn't just necessarily about a data breach but it _ just necessarily about a data breach but it was _ just necessarily about a data breach but it was about this disinformation campaign _ but it was about this disinformation campaign that they are very concerned about by the chinese. chinese — concerned about by the chinese. chinese are getting much more sophisticated on al. so access to the platform, access to put out this disinformation and these narratives

in advance — disinformation and these narratives in advance of the election is also, ithink— in advance of the election is also, i think right — in advance of the election is also, i think right now as much or maybe not more _ i think right now as much or maybe not more than the concerns of the data _ not more than the concerns of the data. , ., . ., data. there is not much that i agree with marjorie _ data. there is not much that i agree with marjorie taylor _ data. there is not much that i agree with marjorie taylor green - data. there is not much that i agree with marjorie taylor green on - data. there is not much that i agree with marjorie taylor green on but i with marjorie taylor green on but she did make a fairly valid point today that if it's about protecting data surely there are other american companies that are selling that data and selling it overseas. lie and selling it overseas. us technology _ and selling it overseas. ii’s technology companies are notorious for their data collection practices. we see many scandals including other social media companies where we see businesses build their business models around collecting and sharing american sensitive and personal information in ways users may not expect. it is true that because of this overall environment if tiktok were to be sold to an american buyer that probably wouldn't significantly increase us privacy. if american companies are alive to take the same action that tiktok is being accused off with up —— allowed to.

action that tiktok is being accused off with up -- allowed to.- action that tiktok is being accused off with up -- allowed to. maybe not the data but — off with up -- allowed to. maybe not the data but the _ off with up -- allowed to. maybe not the data but the algorithm. - off with up -- allowed to. maybe not the data but the algorithm. i - off with up -- allowed to. maybe not the data but the algorithm. i think. the data but the algorithm. i think that's the point elyse is making. my daughter gets all her news from tiktok. i do try and pointer towards radio four but she prefers tiktok. i say to her, and you think you are fighting your way around it but how much is the algorithm actually directing her to what the app wants her to see?— her to see? tiktok algorithm is huge for that is one _ her to see? tiktok algorithm is huge for that is one of _ her to see? tiktok algorithm is huge for that is one of the reason - her to see? tiktok algorithm is huge for that is one of the reason why - for that is one of the reason why the company is so valuable for the kickbacks algorithm has a unique way of telling whatever he is watched in the past and recommending to contact. that's why tiktok has the ability to make videos go viral in ways we haven't seen on other apps. i do think that it raises questions of kin to tiktok be more responsible, more transparent with this algorithm? however, we also see lawmakers accusing the chinese government of controlling this

algorithm to target propaganda. we haven't seen any specific public evidence of that happening yet. given how many young people use this app given how many young people use this app it is a brave party that advocates banning tiktok. particularly in an election year. let particularly in an election year. let me — particularly in an election year. let me quickly say, the kids will be upset _ let me quickly say, the kids will be upset for— let me quickly say, the kids will be upset for a — let me quickly say, the kids will be upset for a little while and then they'll — upset for a little while and then they'll be — upset for a little while and then they'll be another app. people are already— they'll be another app. people are already working on it here in the united _ already working on it here in the united states. there will be a new app united states. there will be a new app and _ united states. there will be a new app and they will move on. the}r united states. there will be a new app and they will move on. they will be shakin: app and they will move on. they will be shaking cold _ app and they will move on. they will be shaking cold turkey. _ app and they will move on. they will be shaking cold turkey. and - be shaking cold turkey. and then will be on instagram. you are right. the politicians want to talk to young people on it otherwise they won't use it. i wonder because we do look across the pond and today benefit from tablets and computers a few months ago and then we jumped on board. i wonder if this vote will influence policymaking here. i’m board. i wonder if this vote will influence policymaking here. i'm not sure well. influence policymaking here. i'm not sure well- we _ influence policymaking here. i'm not sure well. we don't _ influence policymaking here. i'm not sure well. we don't have _ influence policymaking here. i'm not sure well. we don't have the - influence policymaking here. i'm not sure well. we don't have the same l sure well. we don't have the same restrictions— sure well. we don't have the same restrictions that _ sure well. we don't have the same restrictions that the _ sure well. we don't have the same restrictions that the us _ sure well. we don't have the same restrictions that the us can - sure well. we don't have the same| restrictions that the us can impose on this _ restrictions that the us can impose on this also— restrictions that the us can impose on this. also don't _ restrictions that the us can impose on this. also don't forget, - restrictions that the us can impose on this. also don't forget, those i on this. also don't forget, those young _ on this. also don't forget, those

young audiences _ on this. also don't forget, those young audiences are _ on this. also don't forget, those young audiences are really- young audiences are really commercially. _ young audiences are really commercially. actually - young audiences are really. commercially. actually there young audiences are really- commercially. actually there will be some _ commercially. actually there will be some buyers — commercially. actually there will be some buyers for— commercially. actually there will be some buyers for this _ commercially. actually there will be some buyers for this because - commercially. actually there will be some buyers for this because of- commercially. actually there will be some buyers for this because of the sheer— some buyers for this because of the sheer number— some buyers for this because of the sheer number of— some buyers for this because of the sheer number of advertisers - some buyers for this because of the sheer number of advertisers that i sheer number of advertisers that want _ sheer number of advertisers that want to— sheer number of advertisers that want to he — sheer number of advertisers that want to he on— sheer number of advertisers that want to be on tiktok. _ sheer number of advertisers that want to be on tiktok. they- sheer number of advertisers that want to be on tiktok. they want| want to be on tiktok. they want that audience, _ want to be on tiktok. they want that audience, is— want to be on tiktok. they want that audience, isa— want to be on tiktok. they want that audience, is a key way _ want to be on tiktok. they want that audience, is a key way to _ want to be on tiktok. they want that audience, is a key way to do - want to be on tiktok. they want that audience, is a key way to do it. - want to be on tiktok. they want that audience, is a key way to do it. the i audience, is a key way to do it. the company— audience, is a key way to do it. the company was — audience, is a key way to do it. the company was valued at _ audience, is a key way to do it. the company was valued at 50 - audience, is a key way to do it. the company was valued at 50 billion . company was valued at 50 billion last time — company was valued at 50 billion last time in— company was valued at 50 billion last time in 2020 _ company was valued at 50 billion last time in 2020 for— company was valued at 50 billion last time in 2020 for them - company was valued at 50 billion last time in 2020 for them is - company was valued at 50 billion last time in 2020 for them is not| last time in 2020 for them is not worth— last time in 2020 for them is not worth over— last time in 2020 for them is not worth over in _ last time in 2020 for them is not worth over in estimated $268 . last time in 2020 for them is not. worth over in estimated $268 billion that's— worth over in estimated $268 billion that's a _ worth over in estimated $268 billion that's a lot _ worth over in estimated $268 billion that's a lot of — worth over in estimated $268 billion that's a lot of money _ worth over in estimated $268 billion that's a lot of money for the - that's a lot of money for the advertisers— that's a lot of money for the advertisers are _ that's a lot of money for the advertisers are interested i that's a lot of money for the l advertisers are interested for that's a lot of money for the i advertisers are interested for a very— advertisers are interested for a very good _ advertisers are interested for a very good reason _ advertisers are interested for a very good reason because - advertisers are interested for a very good reason because theyj advertisers are interested for a - very good reason because they can -et very good reason because they can get you _ very good reason because they can get you a _ very good reason because they can get you a key— very good reason because they can get you a key audience. _ very good reason because they can get you a key audience.— get you a key audience. caitlin, thank you _ get you a key audience. caitlin, thank you for— get you a key audience. caitlin, thank you for your _ get you a key audience. caitlin, thank you for your thoughts. i get you a key audience. caitlin, i thank you for your thoughts. have you on the program. on this side, the prime minister and leader of the opposition spent their afternoon trading blows over which of their respective parties was more racist, anti—semitic or anti—muslim. rishi sunak is facing calls to return a £10 million donation to the businessman frank hester, who in 2019 told a business meeting that when labour's diane abbott appeared on tv it made him "want to hate all black women". "she should be shot",

he allegedly said. the mayor of the west midlands, andy street, and the leader of the scottish conservatives douglas ross have now called for the money to be returned to mr hester. the labour party asked why it had taken the prime minister so long yesterday, to finally call it out as racist. two weeks ago, the prime minister invited himself into everyone's living room at 6:00 on a friday evening. no one asked him to give that speech. he chose to do it. he chose to anoint himself as the great healer and pose as some kind of unifier. but when the man bankrolling his election, says the member for hackney, north should be shot, he suddenly finds himself tongue tied, shrinking in sophistry, hoping he can deflect for long enough that will all go away. what does the prime minister think? it was about the hundreds of millions of pounds of nhs contracts given to frank hester by his government. the first attracted him to giving £10 million to the tory party

in the first place? £10 million to the tory party prime minister. £10 million to the tory party mr £10 million to the tory party speaker, i'm absolutely not going to take any lectures from somebody, from somebody and somebody who chose to represent an anti—semitic terrorist group, hizb ut—tahrir, who chose to serve a leader who let anti—semitism run rife in this labour party. those are his actions, those are his values, and that's how he should be judged. very angry exchanges. in what became very angry exchanges sir keir kept the pressure up. is the premise or proud to be bankrolled by someone using racist and misogynist language, when he says the member for hackney north and stoke newington makes you want to hate all black women? mr speaker, the alleged comments were wrong, they were racist, and he has now... as i said, the comments were wrong and they were racist, he has rightly apologised for them and that remorse should be accepted.

througout prime ministers questions dianne abbot was in the chamber bobbing as it is known, trying to attract the speakers attention. chris mason said she was on her feet 37 times. tonight on twitter she said... keir starmer was leaning into your scared of your party for the inrush tale of what you are part somewhat undermined that?— undermined that? there is no ruestion undermined that? there is no question that _ undermined that? there is no question that both _ undermined that? there is no question that both parties - undermined that? there is no | question that both parties have undermined that? there is no - question that both parties have had difficulties when it comes to dealing with extremist views that have been exposed by other people when it comes to their candidates. the key and all this is to act quickly and decisively. as soon as an

allegation like this is made you immediately suspend someone pending a full investigation. because these remarks are so extreme, they are frankly intraoral of both. for the public to hear that language is so self evidently racist. it took more than 2a hours for the prime minister to realise it. which really strange about this he seems to have bounced into that description that those remarks were racist by his own ministers for the candidate or not, the trade secretary was the one who tweeted it 1st. —— kapi baden. effectively forcing the prime minister stand for the other ministers going public. the scottish tory parties saying him the money back. it's is if the pm isn't actually in control of events. i can back to the _ actually in control of events. i can back to the issue _ actually in control of events. i can back to the issue of _ actually in control of events. i can back to the issue of labour - back to the issue of labour candidate at the time in rochdale, it was an anti—semitic thing that he said. the labour party knew about it. it took keir starmer i think several days to come out and

properly make his point that he couldn't stand as a labour candidate. i want to understand why both leaders are getting this wrong. why are they so afraid as calling it out as racist or anti—semitic? i think the most important thing is to act quickly and decisively. sometimes it's bit worried about how it looks with that when it came to rochdale they didn't act quickly enough. i5 rochdale they didn't act quickly enou . h. , , ., ., rochdale they didn't act quickly enou h, , , ., ., ,., enough. is it the stigma that if you call somebody _ enough. is it the stigma that if you call somebody a — enough. is it the stigma that if you call somebody a racist _ enough. is it the stigma that if you call somebody a racist you get - call somebody a racist you get cancelled these days? so they don't want to voice that on someone? i don't think it is that for them in rochdale don't forget, keir starmer eventually did withdraw support from the candidate which is unprecedented for a by election. you had an unopposed by election when george galloway won there. he took a big decision and he should have done it quickly but i think what it comes to this today it seems so obvious as it was with as our alley of making an

anti—semitic remark, grossly offensive racist remark. you just have to act quickly. it shows the merit of doing that. it’s have to act quickly. it shows the merit of doing that.— merit of doing that. it's a very live issue _ merit of doing that. it's a very live issue in _ merit of doing that. it's a very live issue in the _ merit of doing that. it's a very live issue in the united - merit of doing that. it's a very live issue in the united states| merit of doing that. it's a very i live issue in the united states at the moment. we it for hundred percent increase in anti—semitism and a lot of hatred for muslims and arab americans as well. i'll read you what the attorney general said —— for hundred back for the seeking to fracture our society to isolate us from one another to put communities against community. it's definitely become a greater problem since the events in the middle east. it's huge. the thing here is there is talk— it's huge. the thing here is there is talk about, obviously evident reading — is talk about, obviously evident reading up about what's happening in the uk _ reading up about what's happening in the uk and _ reading up about what's happening in the uk and they say we need more politics— the uk and they say we need more politics which is more empathetic and kind — politics which is more empathetic and kind and understanding in our polarisation. you know the polarisation. you know the polarisation we're finding here where — polarisation we're finding here where marjorie taylor green on one minute _ where marjorie taylor green on one minute she's costing up with aoc in

the neck— minute she's costing up with aoc in the neck she's talking about jewish death— the neck she's talking about jewish death lasers and saying such anti—semitic language. it's really ~~ _ anti—semitic language. it's really... people are so used to it here _ really... people are so used to it here that — really... people are so used to it here that they roll it off your back — here that they roll it off your back. that's what the us, the intelligence community is very concerned about. because the political — concerned about. because the political discourse is so polarising and so _ political discourse is so polarising and so normal that that is seeping its way— and so normal that that is seeping its way into— and so normal that that is seeping its way into the public. so people 'ust its way into the public. so people just don't— its way into the public. so people just don't think that there anything wrong _ just don't think that there anything wrong with violence. it is not condemned, when you shoot someone who is— condemned, when you shoot someone who is black— condemned, when you shoot someone who is black because you're scared of them, _ who is black because you're scared ofthem. it's— who is black because you're scared of them, it's not condemned, is not considered — of them, it's not condemned, is not considered a — of them, it's not condemned, is not considered a hate crime or a racist crime _ considered a hate crime or a racist crime for— considered a hate crime or a racist crime for them everything here is steeped — crime for them everything here is steeped in — crime for them everything here is steeped in this polarisation. it's 'ust steeped in this polarisation. it's just becoming commonplace and normal — just becoming commonplace and normal. that is what the threat is.

this hatem — normal. that is what the threat is. this hate... we normal. that is what the threat is. this hate- - -_ this hate... we had two mps killed here. in this hate... we had two mps killed here- in the _ this hate... we had two mps killed here. in the aftermath _ this hate... we had two mps killed here. in the aftermath of _ here. in the aftermath of the politicians say that they are going to debate more kindly and think about one another but then itjust deteriorates again. tomorrow the governments going to present new counter extremism strategy. it is changing its official definition of extremism to more clearly identify those groups that would use race, religion or hate to divide us. this afternoon stephen flynn the snp leader in westminster said this. on monday, the number ten said we have seen an unacceptable rise in extremist activity, which is seeking to divide our society and hijack our democratic institutions. isn't the extremism that we should all be worried about, the views of those tory donors that we have read about this week? it does make it more difficult, doesn't it for the prime minister and michael gove tomorrow to stand up and michael gove tomorrow to stand up we've got to call out the bigotry

that divide us when they've had this problem this week?— problem this week? certainly true number ten _ problem this week? certainly true number ten immediately - problem this week? certainly true number ten immediately after - problem this week? certainly true number ten immediately after pm j number ten immediately after pm hughes today really struggled to answer the question when asked a simple question which is, with this tory donor frank hester be classed as an extreme and it's under your new guidance and they couldn't answer the question. that's quite damaging. in the uk we don't have the same problems in the us when it comes to donations really dictating policy for that we like to think we don't. i think that's a real problem here, this isn'tjust a politician this is a donor. you have to ask yourself, if an ordinary member of the tory party and said something so outrageous and races you would assume to be kicked out straightaway. what seems to be the case here is they need his money. that surely is quite worrying. we will take a quick break. we will be right back. hello, thanks forjoining me. it's been quite a cloudy day across most of the uk today, some rain too, but it's been mild.

and if anything, the temperatures are expected to rise a little further as we head into thursday — quite breezy too, particularly in scotland. we've had some gales here. anyway, here's the satellite picture, and you can see the rain—bearing cloud streaming across the uk. that cloud produced the heavier rain around snowdonia, the north—west of england. and through the course of the evening, the weather front will be moving northwards. so where we had the clearer skies in the north, well, it's going to turn cloudy through the night. the outbreaks of rain will reach northern ireland, parts of southern scotland, too. but to the north, it will stay clear and chilly. so northern scotland, only around five degrees underneath the clear skies. further south, it's closer to about 8—10 celsius, and of course, we've got that rain, too. so let's have a look at the forecast for thursday — mild south—westerlies, that rain continues to make its journey northward, so quite a soggy picture here in scotland. out towards the west, we've got showers, and given some

lengthy spells of sunshine, which are just about possible across eastern england, east anglia and the south—east, well, temperatures here could reach 16 or even 17 degrees celsius. and then through tomorrow evening, it's a case of hit—and—miss showers across england and wales, but more wet and more, i think, substantial rain there for northern ireland and also scotland. that takes us into friday. as this low pressure pulls away towards the east, on its western flank here, we have winds coming in from the norwegian sea. so it's slightly colder air. if you look at the arrows, blowing in from the north, so that cooler air sliding across the uk, the temperatures will take a bit of a dip. single figures, i think, typically for scotland, for the north of england, but still relatively mild in east anglia — 1a. and i think there'll be some showers around too, but also some decent spells of sunshine. and then friday night into saturday, it's going to be pretty cold. a frost will develop, and i suspect in some spots out of town, temperatures could be as low as “4

celsius early on saturday morning. that's not going to last very long. that sun is strong now this time of the year. here's the outlook, then from thursday onwards — it's a bit of a mixed bag. rain at times, a bit of sunshine, but actually staying relatively mild for most of us. bye— bye.

hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. a presidential rematch.

joe biden and donald trump — become presumptive nominees, for november's election. welcome back, overnight, joe biden and donald trump officially, became the presumptive nominees for president, setting up a rematch of the 2020 election. tuesday's primaries, confirmed what we have known for months. but both now have the necessary delegates required. they remain 'presumptive' because they do not officially become the nominees until the conventions this summer. but it kicks off what will surely be the most important stretch of campaigning the country has witnessed in years. first stop, joe biden headed to wisconsin today open a new campaign headquarters. we can do it. within your have power to do it.