in relation to perspective, and in relation to certain communities, minority ethnic communities, from your experience, was the issues with the central communication, central government communication, central government communication or blanket messaging as you describe it? yes, communication or blanket messaging as you describe it?— as you describe it? yes, we work hard to make _ as you describe it? yes, we work hard to make sure _ as you describe it? yes, we work hard to make sure that _ as you describe it? yes, we work hard to make sure that the - as you describe it? yes, we work hard to make sure that the core l hard to make sure that the core messages — hard to make sure that the core messages from the government were put into_ messages from the government were put into languages that could be understood by everybody in greater manchester. i think, understood by everybody in greater manchester. ithink, if understood by everybody in greater manchester. i think, if i am being fair, _ manchester. i think, if i am being fair, there — manchester. i think, if i am being fair, there was some collaboration on these _ fair, there was some collaboration on these matters between public health _ on these matters between public health information experts and at the government level. but it was a constant _ the government level. but it was a constant challenge the absence of british _ constant challenge the absence of british sign language interpreters at the _ british sign language interpreters at the daily briefings was unforgivable to be honest, all the way through. we

unforgivable to be honest, all the way through-— unforgivable to be honest, all the wa throu~h. ~ . . . way through. we have dealt with that in evidence already _ way through. we have dealt with that in evidence already but _ way through. we have dealt with that in evidence already but thank - way through. we have dealt with that in evidence already but thank you. i l in evidence already but thank you. i will move on as the final section and firmly with lessons learned, how to do things better going forward. there may be a couple of topics you might want to raise, but one you have touched on already, i promised i would return back to it, that would be your view as to the placement of the metro mayors in the civil resilience structure. i said i would come back to that. is that something you wanted to deal with? yes, i think it is what should be there _ yes, i think it is what should be there in— yes, i think it is what should be there in a — yes, i think it is what should be there in a situation like this. here is my— there in a situation like this. here is my central argument. and more devolved _ is my central argument. and more devolved approach to the pandemic would _ devolved approach to the pandemic would have been safer approach to the pandemic. the way we approach this -- _ the pandemic. the way we approach this -- run_ the pandemic. the way we approach this —— run this country is often concentrating power in a small number— concentrating power in a small number of hands in downing street and whitehall. it is dysfunctional during _ and whitehall. it is dysfunctional during normal times,

and whitehall. it is dysfunctional during normaltimes, iwould and whitehall. it is dysfunctional during normal times, i would say it is dangerous to run things i bat during — is dangerous to run things i bat during a — is dangerous to run things i bat during a pandemic. you look at places— during a pandemic. you look at places like _ during a pandemic. you look at places like germany, which adopted a much _ places like germany, which adopted a much more _ places like germany, which adopted a much more devolved approach to these things _ much more devolved approach to these things in_ much more devolved approach to these thins. . much more devolved approach to these thins. , ., , ., things. in terms of the review you had when you _ things. in terms of the review you had when you work— things. in terms of the review you had when you work post - things. in terms of the review you had when you work post the - things. in terms of the review you | had when you work post the swine things. in terms of the review you - had when you work post the swine flu pandemic. is there anything you can say in relation to the similarity with this? . . , say in relation to the similarity with this? that was the central argument _ with this? that was the central argument of — with this? that was the central argument of that _ with this? that was the central argument of that review, - with this? that was the central argument of that review, it - with this? that was the central| argument of that review, it said with this? that was the central. argument of that review, it said a future _ argument of that review, it said a future pandemic should be handled in a much _ future pandemic should be handled in a much more delegated, devolved way, with greater _ a much more delegated, devolved way, with greater subsidiarity, and it would _ with greater subsidiarity, and it would appear that that had not been taken _ would appear that that had not been taken on _ would appear that that had not been taken on board. the thing that i come _ taken on board. the thing that i come back— taken on board. the thing that i come back to is, the absence of those _ come back to is, the absence of those structures meant that people, whenever— those structures meant that people, whenever i_ those structures meant that people, whenever i spoke to them in downing street— whenever i spoke to them in downing street or— whenever i spoke to them in downing street or whitehall, they didn't seem _ street or whitehall, they didn't seem to — street or whitehall, they didn't seem to know how people were feeling in our— seem to know how people were feeling in our part— seem to know how people were feeling in our part of the world. it had been — in our part of the world. it had been miserable throughout 2020 with

endless _ been miserable throughout 2020 with endless restrictions, but they did not seem — endless restrictions, but they did not seem to know. if i could just inform _ not seem to know. if i could just inform the — not seem to know. if i could just inform the committee, on the final they will— inform the committee, on the final they will be where about to have tier 3 _ they will be where about to have tier 3 imposed on the 20th of october— tier 3 imposed on the 20th of october 2020, tier 3 imposed on the 20th of 0ctober2020, i had tier 3 imposed on the 20th of october 2020, i had a phone call with mr— october 2020, i had a phone call with mrjohnson, and he was saying, we need _ with mrjohnson, and he was saying, we need you — with mrjohnson, and he was saying, we need you to agree to these restrictions and a package of support, _ restrictions and a package of support, and i said, we can't is not enough _ support, and i said, we can't is not enough we — support, and i said, we can't is not enough. we have been under restrictions for a long time. he said, _ restrictions for a long time. he said. what— restrictions for a long time. he said, what do you mean? i said, we have _ said, what do you mean? i said, we have been— said, what do you mean? i said, we have been under restrictions since july. _ have been under restrictions since july, and — have been under restrictions since july, and to— have been under restrictions since july, and to me it did not seem like he knew— july, and to me it did not seem like he knew about that. he was not aware we have _ he knew about that. he was not aware we have been struggling all of that time, _ we have been struggling all of that time, and — we have been struggling all of that time, and it is an absence of a place— time, and it is an absence of a place every— time, and it is an absence of a place every week where people can report _ place every week where people can report into — place every week where people can report into safe, this is how it feels — report into safe, this is how it feels for— report into safe, this is how it feels for us at this moment in time. that i_ feels for us at this moment in time. that i think— feels for us at this moment in time. that i think led to a situation where — that i think led to a situation where there was not an understanding of what _ where there was not an understanding of what some other things the government were doing, what impact they were _ government were doing, what impact they were having on people's lives, and that—

they were having on people's lives, and that is— they were having on people's lives, and that is why i hope this inquiry will make — and that is why i hope this inquiry will make some clear recommendations about a _ will make some clear recommendations about a more devolved infrastructure that can _ about a more devolved infrastructure that can then both have it, be represented at a uk national level but then— represented at a uk national level but then be given more responsibility to deal with the pandemic at a regional and local level _ pandemic at a regional and local level. . ~' , ., pandemic at a regional and local level. . ,, , ., pandemic at a regional and local level. . ,, . . level. thank you so much. i grant permission _ level. thank you so much. i grant permission for _ level. thank you so much. i grant permission for questions - level. thank you so much. i grant permission for questions from - level. thank you so much. i grant| permission for questions from the core participants. l permission for questions from the core participants.— permission for questions from the core participants.- thank. core participants. i have. thank ou. as core participants. i have. thank you- as i _ core participants. i have. thank you. as i think— core participants. i have. thank you. as i think you _ core participants. i have. thank you. as i think you know, - core participants. i have. thank you. as i think you know, i- you. as i think you know, i represent the covid bereaved families forjustice uk group and you have known of that group since it formed because you were one of the first public figures to support a call for this in public inquiry. i have permissionjust for a call for this in public inquiry. i have permission just for two short points on matters you have just been

asked about. i am going to ask you about the period in the middle of september and then briefly the middle of october. on the 16th of september, you wrote a letter to mr hancock, which i will put up just to remind you of it, it is 165174. i am not going to read through that. but it is a letter from you to mr hancock, secretary of state for health, setting out a whole raft of proposals for escalation measures to be implemented. quite sophisticated measures to be implemented in greater manchester in relation to the rising cases across the ten council areas. including support for self isolation, local food support, services for vulnerable groups and vulnerable people, a call. changes

to local enforcement powers to target enforcement better. and localised test, trace and isolate measures, which you have mentioned. is that right measures, which you have mentioned. isthat riunh, . measures, which you have mentioned. is that right ages. and if we is that right yes. and if we conflict onto _ is that right yes. and if we conflict onto the _ is that right yes. and if we conflict onto the next - is that right yes. and if we conflict onto the next page... is that right yes. and if we - conflict onto the next page... this is what a more _ conflict onto the next page... this is what a more devolved approach to the pandemic, in ourview, would look— the pandemic, in ourview, would look like — the pandemic, in ourview, would look like l— the pandemic, in our view, would look like. . . , the pandemic, in our view, would look like. , . , ., look like. i 'ust wanted inquiry to see the look like. i just wanted inquiry to see the level _ look like. i just wanted inquiry to see the level of _ look like. i just wanted inquiry to see the level of sophistication i look like. i just wanted inquiry to | see the level of sophistication and thought that greater manchester had put into this. but the second series of bullet points on the second page is then to refer to the other side of the coin, which is what you needed from government. that included additional funding to help the self isolation proposals, you needed legislative changes to support targeted approach to

enforcement. and realistic levels of funding to enable local and time—limited interventions, as you have said. again, it is a sophisticated central lui maxted proposals from side and a list of tasks —— sophisticated set of proposals. take this down, please come and briefly put up 165173. the next day, mr hancock responds in a series of whatsapp messages with you, and i think evidence is what you, and i think evidence is what you said earlier, about him having cordial, helpful engagement at this level. is that right?— cordial, helpful engagement at this level. is that right? yes. and he is

checkin: level. is that right? yes. and he is checking with _ level. is that right? yes. and he is checking with you, _ level. is that right? yes. and he is checking with you, things that essentially needed to be checked over with a letter. and you are making clear at the bottom, you would be prepared to localise curfews, your concern about the confusing patchwork of restrictions across the ten council areas, and a clear sense that there are limited —— they are of limited and diminishing effectiveness. you explained to mr hancock in your letter what you need and that seems to be going all fine in terms of your communication and detail, and his orientation to you. in terms of the financial support, and i write that this was particularly related to and vulnerable groups? because without financial support, then there was no way of ensuring the effectiveness of these measures to

reduce the high case level. yes. reduce the high case level. yes, this was a _ reduce the high case level. yes, this was a theme, _ reduce the high case level. yes, this was a theme, like _ reduce the high case level. yes, this was a theme, like i - reduce the high case level. yes, this was a theme, like i said, i reduce the high case level. yes, this was a theme, like i said, we had raised — this was a theme, like i said, we had raised all the way. rater manchester has a higher number of people _ manchester has a higher number of people who cannot access sick pay or who do— people who cannot access sick pay or who do not— people who cannot access sick pay or who do not get paid if they are not in work _ who do not get paid if they are not in work. , .,, ., ., ., , in work. said people on zero hours orthe in work. said people on zero hours or the an in work. said people on zero hours or the gig economy, _ in work. said people on zero hours or the gig economy, some - or the gig economy, some self—employed people... or the gig economy, some self-employed people... there was a survey early — self-employed people... there was a survey early in _ self-employed people... there was a survey early in the _ self-employed people... there was a survey early in the pandemic - self-employed people... there was a survey early in the pandemic that i survey early in the pandemic that found _ survey early in the pandemic that found 80% of domiciliary care workers — found 80% of domiciliary care workers in the north west said they would _ workers in the north west said they would not _ workers in the north west said they would not be able to self—isolate if they were — would not be able to self—isolate if they were asked to do so because they were asked to do so because they will— they were asked to do so because they will not be paid. it brings home. — they will not be paid. it brings home. if— they will not be paid. it brings home, if you cannot fix that issue, you cannot — home, if you cannot fix that issue, you cannot fix the pandemic. you are acutely aware — you cannot fix the pandemic. you are acutely aware of _ you cannot fix the pandemic. you are acutely aware of that _ you cannot fix the pandemic. you are acutely aware of that as _ you cannot fix the pandemic. you are acutely aware of that as the - you cannot fix the pandemic. you are acutely aware of that as the mayor i acutely aware of that as the mayor of the area. we have looked at the media response of mr hancock in the whatsapps, but did this letter in

september actually lead to any greater financial resources being provided western science i think there were some modest moves later in 2020, but they were never, there was a scheme... in 2020, but they were never, there was a scheme. . ._ in 2020, but they were never, there was a scheme... busy morning, busy afternoon in — was a scheme... busy morning, busy afternoon in british _ was a scheme... busy morning, busy afternoon in british politics, - was a scheme... busy morning, busy afternoon in british politics, and i afternoon in british politics, and we are leaving the covid inquiry as the mayor of greater manchester and burning continues to give evidence to that. going straight back to the house of commons where the home secretary james cleverley is taking questions about the government's rwanda policy, which is now in the balance after the supreme court's recent ruling on this. that balance after the supreme court's recent ruling on this.— recent ruling on this. that is something _ recent ruling on this. that is something that _ recent ruling on this. that is something that ought i recent ruling on this. that is something that ought to i recent ruling on this. that is i something that ought to frighten recent ruling on this. that is - something that ought to frighten us all. something that ought to frighten us all m?— something that ought to frighten us all. ~ , something that ought to frighten us all. y ., ., . , , all. my right honourable friend is absolutely right. _ all. my right honourable friend is absolutely right. when _ all. my right honourable friend is absolutely right. when this i all. my right honourable friend is| absolutely right. when this party, this government started to take action to address the significant increase of illegal migration, we were criticised by the benches

opposite and other voices around the continent. now countries across the continent. now countries across the continent are looking at us to see how we are taking action so they can emulate the actions we are taking. it has gone from something which the party opposite believed was a non—issue to being a core issue in european governments and indeed in north america. if the good people do not grip this issue, the bad people will attempt to do so and i will never let that happen.- will attempt to do so and i will never let that happen. select mitty chairman dame _ never let that happen. select mitty chairman dame diana _ never let that happen. select mitty chairman dame diana johnson. i never let that happen. select mittyj chairman dame diana johnson. the select chairman dame diana johnson. select committee has taken chairman dame diana johnson. tip; select committee has taken a particular interest in the small boat _ particular interest in the small boat crossings. we produce a report last year— boat crossings. we produce a report last year that i would suggest the new home secretary might want to take a _ new home secretary might want to take a look at. we have also visited france _ take a look at. we have also visited france and — take a look at. we have also visited france and belgium this year as well _ france and belgium this year as well i_ france and belgium this year as well. i wonder, france and belgium this year as well. iwonder, because of france and belgium this year as well. i wonder, because of our interest. — well. i wonder, because of our interest, whether the home secretary might— interest, whether the home secretary might consider giving the home of ursula _ might consider giving the home of ursula committee and the joint committee on human rights the

opportunity to carry out some pre—legislative scrutiny of any emergency legislation he plans to hring _ emergency legislation he plans to bring forward to use our expert team is in this— bring forward to use our expert team is in this area?— is in this area? there is an urgency to the legislation _ is in this area? there is an urgency to the legislation we _ is in this area? there is an urgency to the legislation we are _ is in this area? there is an urgency to the legislation we are seeing i is in this area? there is an urgency| to the legislation we are seeing put forward. whilst pre—legislative scrutiny does have a part to play, i will not lay into mentation of this incredibly important legislation. if incredibly important legislation. if we are to crack the business model of the _ we are to crack the business model of the evil— we are to crack the business model of the evil people smugglers, it is imperative we operationalise the rwanda — imperative we operationalise the rwanda scheme. the application of this will— rwanda scheme. the application of this will he — rwanda scheme. the application of this will be necessary. the supreme court _ this will be necessary. the supreme court cited — this will be necessary. the supreme court cited things, in the absence of parliaments... my court cited things, in the absence of parliaments. . ._ of parliaments... my right honourable _ of parliaments... my right honourable friend - of parliaments... my right honourable friend makes l of parliaments... my right i honourable friend makes an incredibly important point. i do not want to prejudge the content of the

bill. i listened very carefully to the points he has made an he and the rest of the house should understand that we will do everything we can to ensure that we break the business model of the evil people smugglers he highlights, that we drive down small boat arrivals, and he is absolutely right that the deterrent effect of what wanda is a key element to that multi—strand approach. element to that multi-strand approach-— element to that multi-strand approach-_ i- element to that multi-strand | approach._ i thank element to that multi-strand i approach._ i thank my approach. number12. ithank my honourable _ approach. number 12. i thank my honourable friend _ approach. number 12. i thank my honourable friend for _ approach. number 12. i thank my honourable friend for his - approach. number12. i thank my i honourable friend for his question, he is _ honourable friend for his question, he is a _ honourable friend for his question, he is a tireless campaign on this issue _ he is a tireless campaign on this issue. i completely accept the need for a new— issue. i completely accept the need for a new police funding formula. it is something we have been working on extremely— is something we have been working on extremely hard. working with colleagues across government and i hope to— colleagues across government and i hope to have something to say further— hope to have something to say further on _ hope to have something to say further on the topic very shortly. in further on the topic very shortly. in the _ further on the topic very shortly. in the meantime, we are getting as much _ in the meantime, we are getting as much money as we can to front—line policing _ much money as we can to front—line policing this — much money as we can to front—line policing. this year, an extra £550

million _ policing. this year, an extra £550 million to— policing. this year, an extra £550 million to front line policing, and in addition — million to front line policing, and in addition to that, £330 million to support— in addition to that, £330 million to support police pay rise, making £880 million _ support police pay rise, making £880 million extra for policing this year~ — million extra for policing this year~ l— million extra for policing this ear. . ., , million extra for policing this ear. . .,, . ., , year. i am most gratefulto my honourable _ year. i am most gratefulto my honourable friend _ year. i am most gratefulto my honourable friend for - year. i am most gratefulto my honourable friend for that i year. i am most gratefulto my. honourable friend for that answer. it is nevertheless— honourable friend for that answer. it is nevertheless concerning - honourable friend for that answer. it is nevertheless concerning thatl it is nevertheless concerning that suffolk— it is nevertheless concerning that suffolk police _ it is nevertheless concerning that suffolk police were _ it is nevertheless concerning that suffolk police were promised i it is nevertheless concerning thatl suffolk police were promised draft proposals — suffolk police were promised draft proposals for _ suffolk police were promised draft proposals for this _ suffolk police were promised draft proposals for this review - suffolk police were promised draft proposals for this review in - suffolk police were promised draft| proposals for this review in january and i_ proposals for this review in january and i would — proposals for this review in january and i would urge _ proposals for this review in january and i would urge my— proposals for this review in january and i would urge my right- proposals for this review in january. and i would urge my right honourable friend _ and i would urge my right honourable friend to _ and i would urge my right honourable friend to get — and i would urge my right honourable friend to get these _ and i would urge my right honourable friend to get these figures... - and i would urge my right honourable friend to get these figures... this i friend to get these figures... this is bbc news. _ friend to get these figures... this is bbc news, were _ friend to get these figures... thiii is bbc news, were nagging friend to get these figures... is bbc news, were nagging to friend to get these figures...- is bbc news, were nagging to leave the house of commons for a short while, but we will be back for an urgent question at around 3:30pm in the house of commons. the chalice foreign secretary david lammy —— shadow foreign secretary david lammy... this is bbc news, and as i was saying, we are expecting to hear from the shadow foreign secretary at about half past three in the house of commons. david lammy is due to

ask the secretary of state for foreign common and development of affairs if he will make a statement on the humanitarian pause between israel and hamas. on the humanitarian pause between israeland hamas. lord on the humanitarian pause between israel and hamas. lord cameron does not sit in the house of commons so we will see when and whether he will appear before mps on that issue. some other breaking news, and in the last few hours, a deal has been announced to settle the pay dispute between the government and nhs consultants in england for both senior hospital doctors. about on the new government pay offer during the new government pay offer during the next few weeks, but... a strike offer will be lifted. we have just learned the bma has just agreed a deal with health officials in england, in government

and endorsed by ministers that will at least be put to members. that will last two months. that means no strikes during that period. it lifts the risk of further strikes over winter but does not completely rule out the possibility if the members reject the deal. what is the deal? initially 6% of a pay rise was put out there awarded to consultants in england. they said that was not enough. they look for may be double that, and the deal involves 4.95% of extra government money going into pay, on top of that 6%, but it will be paid out until april, the beginning of the next financial year and it is backdated. it is quite complicated, there will be a review and reform of the banding system and that will be simplified. some consultants will get may be double the 6% in april next year, someone to get any more. it is very complex

and involves other aspects like reform of the whole doctors and dentists' pay review body process. that was asked for and government will feel they have got efficiency commitments to make the whole system better. this banding system was seen as a barrier to making the system more efficient and encouraging junior consultants and also the most senior with their pay awards. some of the money is being saved by abolishing the merit awards that were being put out there. some of it is not new money. the bottom line is, there is an agreement now which will be put to members amongst consultants, but of course that still leaves the junior doctors. just remind us how longest dispute has been going on for and how much disruption it has caused, because the government has blamed a lot of those strike days for adding hugely to the waiting list on the nhs. yes.

to the waiting list on the nhs. yes, strikes in the _ to the waiting list on the nhs. yes, strikes in the nhs _ to the waiting list on the nhs. yes, strikes in the nhs in _ to the waiting list on the nhs. is: strikes in the nhs in england began nearly a year ago with nurses, and most of the health nurses have settled on pay. it is the doctors and a couple of other groups still in dispute, but a large number certainly settled. it is more than a million operations, and appointments, which had been cancelled in england because of strikes. nhs leaders have been very concerned about this and of course patients and the possibility that this will run through the winter. we know now that consultants will not take any action, certainly over the key winter months are december and january while they vote, but the junior doctors have a separate pay dispute and there's no news of talks there at all. it is perfectly possible that they will decide to stage a further strike action if the talks actually run out of steam. we simply do not know about that. but certainly relief or nhs leaders and patients, one group of doctors has reached an agreement. bud patients, one group of doctors has reached an agreement.— patients, one group of doctors has reached an agreement. and what about the government? _ reached an agreement. and what about the government? there _ reached an agreement. and what about the government? there has _ reached an agreement. and what about the government? there has been i the government? there has been criticism order was in the past over

how format secretary of state for health was dealing with the strikes. we have got a new one, relatively new one, in the past few weeks. as that made a difference? yes. that made a difference? yes, victoria atkins _ that made a difference? yes, victoria atkins just _ that made a difference? yes, victoria atkins just took i that made a difference? yes, victoria atkins just took over| that made a difference? ia: victoria atkins just took over from steve barclay, not much more than a ago, and has had a limited amount of time to get up to speed. i am told that actually these were very technocratic talks involving officials and bma representatives. it did not really involve a whole lot of ministerial involvement. but she will certainly have had to put a name to this deal and she obviously is content for it to go forward and there will be a statement, i think, from her and other government sources a bit later in the day. fiur sources a bit later in the day. our health editor— sources a bit later in the day. our health editor speaking to my colleague. staying with another health story in the uk, and that is that one person has been confirmed to have a strain of flu is similar to have a strain of flu is similar

to viruses spreading in pigs. that is according to health officials. routine surveillance in gp surgeries picked r after the person suffered a mild illness. the uk's health security agency says it is now carrying contact tracing out to prevent further spread of the virus. earlier i spoke to bbc�*s digital health editor michelle roberts to get the latest. this health editor michelle roberts to get the latest-— health editor michelle roberts to get the latest. this person went to see their gp _ get the latest. this person went to see their gp because _ get the latest. this person went to see their gp because they - get the latest. this person went to see their gp because they were i see their gp because they were feeling unwell, they had some respiratory symptoms, a calf, feeling generally unwell with it. they did some tests and when the results came back, they found out when they look at the type of virus that was behind it, it is this new one. it is one you would normally see in animals, in pigs. so this is the first time in the uk we have seen this specific one. it is an influence at a virus, so it is like a winter flu. influence at a virus, so it is like a winterflu. —— influenza a. so far

we do not know much more in terms of what it will do. the obvious question is, will it take off in a big way? certainly, they will be watching, the authorities, all of the relevant authorities being informed about it. you do see cases like this from time to time where something moves from an animal into a person. that does not automatically mean it will start spreading from person to person and cause an outbreak. but if you remember back in 2009, we had swine flu. that was an infection that did cause a pandemic at the time. experts were concerned it might be really quite damaging, but that pandemic wasn't as severe as feared initially. now we do actually vaccinate against that strain. that is already in our annual flu shot, gives us good protection because that virus does still circulate. throughout the day, we have been bringing you the covid inquiry, that continues today. we heard from the

mayor of london and just now we have been hearing from the mayor of greater manchester. he told the inquiry that he and other mayors whenever invited to what he described as ad hoc cobra meetings by the government in cabinet office briefing rooms despite repeatedly asking to be included. what briefing rooms despite repeatedly asking to be included. what benefits do ou asking to be included. what benefits do you think — asking to be included. what benefits do you think it _ asking to be included. what benefits do you think it would _ asking to be included. what benefits do you think it would have _ asking to be included. what benefits do you think it would have been i asking to be included. what benefits do you think it would have been to i do you think it would have been to be an— do you think it would have been to be an attendee at that meeting? a be an attendee at that meeting? structured environment where serious issues could have been properly raised. for instance, one that myself and the mayor of the liverpool city region raised right through the whole thing and never got a response, which was financial support of people on the lowest incomes, insecure work, self isolating if asked to do so, people with no access to sick pay, we repeatedly raise that issue. we'll come back to that. but people also excluded from support, the

self—employed, freelancers. we raise them in the media because we had no alternative. if cobra was properly structured, we would have put these issues on the agenda, had a proper response to them, but we were never afforded that opportunity. hand? afforded that opportunity. andy burnham and _ afforded that opportunity. andy burnham and some _ afforded that opportunity. andy burnham and some of- afforded that opportunity. andy burnham and some of the i afforded that opportunity. andy burnham and some of the evidence he was giving to the covid inquiry, currently on a break this afternoon. we also heard from mr burnham, outlining how he felt communication could have been improved based on his experience. i could have been improved based on his experience.— his experience. i started to make more public _ his experience. i started to make more public comment _ his experience. i started to make more public comment on - his experience. i started to make l more public comment on pandemic policy nationally, having been secretary of state in a global pandemic. ifelt i had something secretary of state in a global pandemic. i felt i had something to contribute. it was meant to be helpful. i remember the day when i saw an article from health minister appear behind a pay wall. ijust

thought myself, this isn't right. we are not getting this right. people need information at this moment in time, we cannot have articles behind pay walls. i kind of went public that day with a long thread of tweets, kind of being honest about my experience as secretary of state in the swine flu pandemic, and we made many mistakes on communications. it is hard communicating in a pandemic, and i tried to share that honestly and openly, and i call, actually, for a daily briefing. i said that they should be, and i said they should be a briefing that is not led by politicians. mistake i had made in swine flu was giving out information which always then will seem politically, then it goes into the fray and all the rest of it. at that time, we agreed the chief medical officer of the time would lead our briefings. without politicians

present. i advocated that that would have been a better approach. mr burnham also told be inquiry that he asked for patient identifiable test and trace data injune 2020, but he said it was refused for weeks. it was refused for weeks and weeks and weeks. i had to enter another media battle to try and get hold of that data. this was data that really they had no argument with us. in the law they passed in early march, the covid emergency legislation, covid 19 was added to the list of notifiable diseases. 50 19 was added to the list of notifiable diseases. . , , . notifiable diseases. so local public health authority _ notifiable diseases. so local public health authority was _ notifiable diseases. so local public health authority was under - notifiable diseases. so local public health authority was under duty i notifiable diseases. so local public health authority was under duty to j health authority was under duty to report— health authority was under duty to report it? — health authority was under duty to report it? it health authority was under duty to re ort it? . ., health authority was under duty to reort it? . ., , ,., report it? it had to be reported, and et report it? it had to be reported, and yet this _ report it? it had to be reported, and yet this new _ report it? it had to be reported, and yet this new test _ report it? it had to be reported, and yet this new test entry i report it? it had to be reported, i and yet this new test entry system they had outsourced said it did not have to give us this data, and ministers said they did not either.

we had to show them the law that they had passed. this was important to us. ~ , . . they had passed. this was important tous. , . , to us. why was it important in tens of caettin to us. why was it important in tens of getting that _ to us. why was it important in tens of getting that data? _ to us. why was it important in tens of getting that data? because i of getting that data? because lockdown had _ of getting that data? because lockdown had been _ of getting that data? because lockdown had been lifted i of getting that data? because lockdown had been lifted to i of getting that data? because i lockdown had been lifted to early. we had a high case rate, many of our residents were injobs we had a high case rate, many of our residents were in jobs they did not get sick pay for, they could not go home if they were ill because their employment would not support them being paid if they were off ill. so we had fundamentals that were hard to deal with. we wanted, the difference between the test entry system and what we wanted to do from our locally run contact tracing, was the national persistent was making calls from call centres that nobody was answering —— answering. we wanted data so that we could knock on doors. the wanted data so that we could knock on doors. ., ., wanted data so that we could knock on doors. ._ ., ., , . on doors. the mayor of greater manchester. — on doors. the mayor of greater manchester, andy _ on doors. the mayor of greater manchester, andy burnham. i on doors. the mayor of greater l manchester, andy burnham. this morning, the mayor of london city card was talking to the covid inquiry and he was expressing his

express race in —— he was expressing his frustration. you express race in -- he was expressing his frustration.— his frustration. you initially wanted to _ his frustration. you initially wanted to go _ his frustration. you initially wanted to go from - his frustration. you initially wanted to go from tier- his frustration. you initially wanted to go from tier1 i his frustration. you initially wanted to go from tier1 to | his frustration. you initially i wanted to go from tier1 to tier 2? the data _ wanted to go from tier1 to tier 2? the data we — wanted to go from tier1 to tier 2? the data we had was showing things were getting worse. we said, let's go to tier 2 to avoid a lockdown, because that will hopefully address the concerns we have. that is a good example of policy working. ibis the concerns we have. that is a good example of policy working.— example of policy working. as you sa , that example of policy working. as you say, that debate _ example of policy working. as you say, that debate was _ example of policy working. as you say, that debate was taking i example of policy working. as you | say, that debate was taking place, as we _ say, that debate was taking place, as we now— say, that debate was taking place, as we now know, in the run—up to what _ as we now know, in the run—up to what became the second lockdown. just to _ what became the second lockdown. just to complete the story, in advance of the second lockdown in november, i lobbied the prime ministerfor a circuit november, i lobbied the prime minister for a circuit breaker. november, i lobbied the prime ministerfor a circuit breaker. i had seen the sage advice, but also half term had been october, was an opportunity for that circuit breaker. the government did not

listen to my lobbying. bhd breaker. the government did not listen to my lobbying.— listen to my lobbying. and you describe your _ listen to my lobbying. and you describe your statement i listen to my lobbying. and you describe your statement yourl describe your statement your reaction _ describe your statement your reaction when that lockdown was finally _ reaction when that lockdown was finally announced. the frustration, but also _ finally announced. the frustration, but also a — finally announced. the frustration, but also a point about the degree of warning _ but also a point about the degree of warning you received about that decision — warning you received about that decision. . . warning you received about that decision. , . ,., warning you received about that decision. , . �* ., decision. here is a point. before lockdown one, _ decision. here is a point. before lockdown one, we _ decision. here is a point. before lockdown one, we knew- decision. here is a point. before lockdown one, we knew what i decision. here is a point. beforel lockdown one, we knew what was happening around the world, we delayed and david. lockdown two, it may not have been needed if the government had taken the advice from sage, for example, for a circuit breaker, lobbying from people like me. another example of delay necessitating a second lockdown matters relevant to your point about the economy. had it been taken sooner, i argued they would need to be a lockdown maybe and would have been better for the economy. the ni . ht of been better for the economy. the night of london there, and earlier we heard from the mayor of manchester as well. —— the mayor of

london there. we can cross live now to our reporter who is at the inquiry in central london. ellie, from clips we saw of the two mayors today, the team seems to be transparency and inclusion and they say they were not part of some of the big decisions when they felt they should have been. that the other areas weren't taken into account and it was central government. there's an element, they would say that, wouldn't they? they see themselves as important, unless it is they made. this whole point of the inquiry is working out how decisions are made, and some of the examples both people gave our fatigue. you've got from sadik khan

the idea he was excluded from some of those cobra meetings. he wasn't at the table when the severity of the pandemic was being discussed. london was badly hit, particular at the beginning. he explained it in terms of a number of airports in london, heathrow, gatwick, stansted. if the virus was being brought in, it was possibly through those places. the rates were higher. from andy burnham you hear the ideas of restriction set that wouldn't have been, and parents in the area, greater manchester remains, the virus remains high and restrictions were tied. he said some other restrictions they faced would never have been faced in the south or south—east of england. you got this row of exactly those decisions and he was taking them, central

government in london, but not really thinking