a very good afternoon to you. welcome to bbc news. this is bbc news, welcome if you're watching here in the uk or around the globe. i'm shaun ley. our top stories... time is ticking for tiktok as its chief faces a congressional hearing, amidst mounting data privacy concerns from us lawmakers. this hearing is about to begin and we will go there live. these privacy concerns are around the us, europe and the uk. more protests in israel after the israeli parliament ratified a law that would make it more difficult for courts to remove a prime minister deemed unfit for office. the bank of england announces an increase in interest rates for an 11th consecutive time, following an unexpected jump in the uk inflation rate.

hello and welcome to bbc news. we are going to head right to capitol hill to the us congress, where the committee hearing is about to begin, this involves the chief executive of tiktok, the video sharing app. the ceo, shou zi chew, is giving evidence before a committee of the us congress. this committee hearing is because it is the house energy and commerce committee looking at the use of data and privacy practices and it has been sparked in particular by a number of incidences where journalists had their data lifted from tiktok and because chinese owned companies are acquired under the legislation to provide data if they are requested to, there

are concerns about connections with the state. let's hear from the chair of this committee.— of this committee. engaged citizens are _ of this committee. engaged citizens are welcome _ of this committee. engaged citizens are welcome and - of this committee. engaged citizens are welcome and a - of this committee. engaged - citizens are welcome and a valuable part of the political process. i do want to remind the guests in the audience that the chair is obliged under the house rules and the walls of the committee to maintain order and preserve decorum in the committee room. i know we have deep feelings on these issues and that we all may not agree on everything. but i ask that we abide by these full sun to be respectful of our audience members, ourviewers be respectful of our audience members, our viewers and eyewitnesses. the chair appreciates the audience's corporation in maintaining order, as we have a full discussion on these important the chair recognises herself for five minutes for an opening statement. shou zi chew, you are here because the american people need the truth about the threat tiktok poses to our national and personal security and. tiktok clips nearly every data point

imaginable, from people's location to what they type and copy, who they talk to, biometric data and more. evenif talk to, biometric data and more. even if they have never been on tiktok, your trackers are embedded in sites across the web. tiktok surveillance us all. and the chinese communist party is able to use this as a tool to manipulate america as a whole. we do not trust tiktok will ever embrace american values, values forfreedom, human rights and innovation. tiktok has repeatedly chosen the path for more control, more surveillance and more manipulation. your platform should be banned. i expect today you will say anything to avoid this outcome, like you are 100% responsible for what tiktok does, that you suddenly endorse a national data privacy standards, that project texas is more than a marketing scheme, that

tiktok doesn't harm our innocent children or that your ties to the chinese communist party through bike dancesis chinese communist party through bike dances isjust a myth. we are not buying it. in fact, when you celebrate the 115 million american users on tiktok, it illustrates and emphasises the urgency for congress to act. that is 115 million americans that ccp can collect sensitive information on and control what we ultimately see, hear and believe. tiktok has repeatedly been caught in the lie that it does not answer to the ccp through bike dance. today the ccp's laws require chinese companies like bike dance to spy chinese companies like bike dance to spy on their behalf. that means any chinese company must glance the ccp access is a design feature. right now, bike dance is under litigation by the dj force availing american

journalists, both digital activity and movement through tiktok. we also know that many of your employees still report directly to beijing. internal recordings with there is a back door for china to access user data across the platform. your employees said, quote, everything is seenin employees said, quote, everything is seen in china. a gateway to spy is not the only way. , not the only way that tiktok and bike dance can do the bidding of the ccp. china's help to do events and people, it wants the world to forget. this exposes ccp torture of uyghur muslims. the facts show that bike dance is beholden to the ccp and bike dance and tiktok are one and the same. tiktok also targets are children. the algorithm is a tool for tiktok to own their attention and prey on

their innocence. within minutes of creating an account, your algorithm can promote suicide, self—harm and eating disorders to children, and it encourages challenges for them to put their lives in danger and allows adults to prey on our beautiful, beloved daughters. it is also a portal for drug beloved daughters. it is also a portalfor drug dealers beloved daughters. it is also a portal for drug dealers to sell illicit funds and all that china has banned, yet is helping mexican cartels produce. send them across our border and poison our children. in china be ccp proactively prohibits this type of tiktok content that promotes death and despair to kids. from the data it collected to the content it controls, tiktok is a grave threat of foreign influence on american life. it has been said it is like allowing the soviet union the power to produce saturday morning cartoons during the cold war. but much more powerful and much more dangerous.

banning your platform will address the immediate threats. make no mistake, this committee is also looking to the future. america needs to be prepared to stop the next technological tool or weapon china will use its own strategic gain. we must prevent any app or website like tiktok from ever spying on americans again and we must provide the strongest protection is possible for our children. that is why this committee is leading on a national privacy and data security standard. it restricts sensitive american data from reaching our adversaries to begin with. and what big tech and data brokers collect, process, store and sell. it makes it illegal for any platform to track and target children under 17. shou zi chew, the committee has requested that tiktok appear before us for a long time. for those we serve, we are glad the

day has finally come. today the world is watching. bytedance is watching. the chinese communist party is watching. but the answers you or to the american people. a three people, who cherish their god—given, unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all. they deserve the truth. complete honesty is the standard and the law you are being held to before this committee, as we seek to get answers and a full understanding of what happens at tiktok under your watch. thank you. the chair now recognises the ranking member, mr bloom, forfive minutes. thank you, madam chair, and let me say that_ thank you, madam chair, and let me say that i_ thank you, madam chair, and let me say that i agree with much of what you just _ say that i agree with much of what you just said and i certainly appreciate your enthusiasm and youte _ appreciate your enthusiasm and you're commenting on being a mother and concerned about children, and i am glad _ and concerned about children, and i am glad that we are having this

hearing — am glad that we are having this hearing today. big tech has transformed the information super highway— transformed the information super highway into a super spread of harmful— highway into a super spread of harmful content, invasive surveillance practices and addictive and damaging design features. data is and damaging design features. data is ijil and damaging design features. data is big tech's most valuable commodity and by collecting far more user data _ commodity and by collecting far more user data than they need, big tech platforms — user data than they need, big tech platforms can use, share and sell information to generate billions of dollars_ information to generate billions of dollars of— information to generate billions of dollars of revenue. today the american _ dollars of revenue. today the american people are powerless to stop this — american people are powerless to stop this invasion of their pregnancy and we cannot wait any longer— pregnancy and we cannot wait any longer to— pregnancy and we cannot wait any longer to pass confidence of national— longer to pass confidence of national privacy legislation that put people back in control of their data _ put people back in control of their data we — put people back in control of their data. we must hold big tech accountable for its actions and transparency is critical to that accountability. in the past several congresses, this committee has heard from senior— congresses, this committee has heard from senior executives of other social— from senior executives of other social media platforms about troubling and repeated incidences where _ troubling and repeated incidences where they put profits over people. today— where they put profits over people. today we _ where they put profits over people. today we intend to bring more transparency to tiktok, which is controlled — transparency to tiktok, which is controlled by its beijing communist

-based _ controlled by its beijing communist —based parent company, bytedance, and while _ —based parent company, bytedance, and while tick—tock mack videos provide — and while tick—tock mack videos provide people a new way for people to express _ provide people a new way for people to express creativity and a community with others, the platform also threatens the privacy and security — also threatens the privacy and security at the american people and i'm security at the american people and i'rn not— security at the american people and i'm not convinced the benefits outweigh _ i'm not convinced the benefits outweigh the risks it poses to americans in its present form. more than 130 _ americans in its present form. more than 130 million people in the united — than 130 million people in the united states used tiktok every month, — united states used tiktok every month, including lots of teenagers. tiktok— month, including lots of teenagers. tiktok contains vast troves of personal _ tiktok contains vast troves of personal information that creates an addictive _ personal information that creates an addictive algorithm that is able to predict _ addictive algorithm that is able to predict with uncanny accuracy what content _ predict with uncanny accuracy what content is — predict with uncanny accuracy what content is likely to keep people scrolling, — content is likely to keep people scrolling, even if the content is harmful — scrolling, even if the content is harmful. tiktok's popularity and chinese —based ownership exacerbates its danger— chinese —based ownership exacerbates its danger to our country and papacy _ its danger to our country and papacy. chinese government can compel— papacy. chinese government can compel companies like tiktok to

compel— compel companies like tiktok to compel with sharing data with its government, through coercion. a chinese _ government, through coercion. a chinese communist government could require _ chinese communist government could require tiktok to compromise device security, _ require tiktok to compromise device security, maliciously access american _ security, maliciously access american user data, promote pro—communist propaganda and undermine american interests. disinformation campaigns could be launched _ disinformation campaigns could be launched by the chinese communist government through tiktok, which has already— government through tiktok, which has already become rife with misinformation and disinformation, illegal— misinformation and disinformation, illegal activities and hate speech. a recent — illegal activities and hate speech. a recent report found that 20% of tiktok _ a recent report found that 20% of tiktok search results on prominent news _ tiktok search results on prominent news topics — tiktok search results on prominent news topics contain misinformation. social— news topics contain misinformation. social media's profitability depends on growth and engagement. more eyes on growth and engagement. more eyes on their— on growth and engagement. more eyes on their content for longer time leads— on their content for longer time leads to — on their content for longer time leads to more advertising dollars in revenue _ leads to more advertising dollars in revenue generation. addictive algorithms are fine tuned to optimise growth and engagement without— optimise growth and engagement without necessarily taking into account — without necessarily taking into account potential harms to users. childrerr— account potential harms to users. children and teens are particularly vulnerable. frequent online use of

interactive — vulnerable. frequent online use of interactive media on digital devices is associated with increased levels of depression among middle and high school— of depression among middle and high school students. researchers found that tiktok's addictive algorithms recommends to teams that exacerbate and great _ recommends to teams that exacerbate and great feelings of emotional distress. — and great feelings of emotional distress, including videos promoting suicide, _ distress, including videos promoting suicide, self—harm and eating disorders _ suicide, self—harm and eating disorders. public outrage and hollow apologies— disorders. public outrage and hollow apologies alone are not going to rein in_ apologies alone are not going to rein in big — apologies alone are not going to rein in big tech. congress has to enact _ rein in big tech. congress has to enact laws — rein in big tech. congress has to enact laws protecting the american public— enact laws protecting the american public from such online harms and we simply— public from such online harms and we simply cannot wait any longer to pass— simply cannot wait any longer to pass the — simply cannot wait any longer to pass the comprehensive policy and privacy _ pass the comprehensive policy and privacy legislation that i offered with ben — privacy legislation that i offered with ben ranking member member of congress _ with ben ranking member member of congress that overwhelmingly advanced... it ensures that companies, i should say, it ensures that consumers, wherever they live in this— that consumers, wherever they live in this country, will have meaningful control of their personal information. our legislation establishes a baseline data minimisation requirements, ensuring the company was '5 only collect process— the company was '5 only collect process and transfer data necessary

to provide _ process and transfer data necessary to provide a — process and transfer data necessary to provide a service. and it had provides— to provide a service. and it had provides heightened privacy commitments for children and teenagers. i think it is time to make — teenagers. i think it is time to make this _ teenagers. i think it is time to make this legislation the law of the land _ make this legislation the law of the land we _ make this legislation the law of the land. we also have reforms needed to section— land. we also have reforms needed to section 230 _ land. we also have reforms needed to section 230 of the communications decency— section 230 of the communications decency act. the liability share for social— decency act. the liability share for social media platforms has for too lon- social media platforms has for too long been— social media platforms has for too long been abused and led to a lack of accountability for social media platforms. i hope we can find a bipartisan _ platforms. i hope we can find a bipartisan path forward on that issue _ bipartisan path forward on that issue as — bipartisan path forward on that issue as well and i think we are having — issue as well and i think we are having a — issue as well and i think we are having a hearing next week on it so we can— having a hearing next week on it so we can stop — having a hearing next week on it so we can stop the very real harms to our country— we can stop the very real harms to our country and democracy under the current— our country and democracy under the current law — our country and democracy under the current law i— our country and democracy under the current law. i look forward to the discussion— current law. i look forward to the discussion today, as we continue to bring _ discussion today, as we continue to bring accountability to big tech. let me — bring accountability to big tech. let me say to mr chew, i know this is about— let me say to mr chew, i know this is about tiktok, but i am focusing all my— is about tiktok, but i am focusing all my attention, not only on tiktok, _ all my attention, not only on tiktok, but on these concerns, these wider— tiktok, but on these concerns, these wider concerns about social media and the _ wider concerns about social media and the protection of privacy. and with that — and the protection of privacy. and with that i — and the protection of privacy. and with that i yelled back. thank you, again. _ with that i yelled back. thank you, again, madam chair, for having this very important hearing. a

again, madam chair, for having this very important hearing.— very important hearing. a witness toda is very important hearing. a witness today is shou _ very important hearing. a witness today is shou zi _ very important hearing. a witness today is shou zi chew, _ very important hearing. a witness today is shou zi chew, chief- today is shou zi chew, chief executive officer of tiktok. we are recognised for five minutes. thank ou. chair recognised for five minutes. thank you. chair rogers, _ recognised for five minutes. thank you. chair rogers, ranking - recognised for five minutes. thank you. chair rogers, ranking member up alone, _ you. chair rogers, ranking member up alone, members of the committee, thank— alone, members of the committee, thank you _ alone, members of the committee, thank you for your time. i am shou zi chew— thank you for your time. i am shou zi chew and — thank you for your time. i am shou zi chew and i— thank you for your time. i am shou zi chew and i am from singapore. that is— zi chew and i am from singapore. that is where i was born, as were my parents. _ that is where i was born, as were my parents. and — that is where i was born, as were my parents, and after serving in singapore's military, are you moved to the _ singapore's military, are you moved to the uk_ singapore's military, are you moved to the uk to — singapore's military, are you moved to the uk to attend college and here to the uk to attend college and here to the _ to the uk to attend college and here to the us _ to the uk to attend college and here to the us to attend business school. i to the us to attend business school. i actually _ to the us to attend business school. i actually met my wife here. by the way, _ i actually met my wife here. by the way she _ i actually met my wife here. by the way, she was bornjust a few miles away— way, she was bornjust a few miles away from — way, she was bornjust a few miles away from here, in virginia. two years— away from here, in virginia. two years ago— away from here, in virginia. two years ago i— away from here, in virginia. two years ago i became the ceo of tiktok — years ago i became the ceo of tiktok. today we have more than1 billion— tiktok. today we have more than1 billion monthly active users around the world, — billion monthly active users around the world, including over 150 million — the world, including over 150 million in _ the world, including over 150 million in the united states. our app million in the united states. our app is _ million in the united states. our app is a — million in the united states. our app is a place where people can be creative _ app is a place where people can be creative and curious and where close to 5 million — creative and curious and where close to 5 million american businesses, mostly— to 5 million american businesses, mostly small businesses, go to find

new customers and to fuel their growth — new customers and to fuel their growth. now, as tiktok has grown, we have had _ growth. now, as tiktok has grown, we have had to _ growth. now, as tiktok has grown, we have had to learn the lessons of companies — have had to learn the lessons of companies that have come before us, especially— companies that have come before us, especially when it comes to the safety — especially when it comes to the safety of — especially when it comes to the safety of teenagers. while the vast majority _ safety of teenagers. while the vast majority of people on tiktok are over— majority of people on tiktok are over 18, — majority of people on tiktok are over18, one majority of people on tiktok are over 18, one of our fastest—growing demographics are people over 35, and we have _ demographics are people over 35, and we have spent a lot of time adopting measures— we have spent a lot of time adopting measures to protect teenagers. many of those — measures to protect teenagers. many of those measures are thirsts for the social— of those measures are thirsts for the social media industry. we forbid direct— the social media industry. we forbid direct messaging for people under 16 and we _ direct messaging for people under 16 and we have a 60 minute watch time by default _ and we have a 60 minute watch time by default for those under 18. we have _ by default for those under 18. we have a _ by default for those under 18. we have a suite of family pairing tools. — have a suite of family pairing tools. so _ have a suite of family pairing tools, so that parents can participate in their teens' experience and make the choices that are right _ experience and make the choices that are right for— experience and make the choices that are right for their family. experience and make the choices that are right fortheirfamily. we experience and make the choices that are right for their family. we want tiktok— are right for their family. we want tiktok to— are right for their family. we want tiktok to be a place where teenagers can come _ tiktok to be a place where teenagers can come to — tiktok to be a place where teenagers can come to learn, which is why we recently— can come to learn, which is why we recently launched a feed that exclusively features educational videos _ exclusively features educational videos about stem. stem videos already— videos about stem. stem videos already have over 116 billion views

on tick—tock. and i think tiktok is inspiring — on tick—tock. and i think tiktok is inspiring a — on tick—tock. and i think tiktok is inspiring a new generation to discover— inspiring a new generation to discover a passion for maths and science — discover a passion for maths and science. now, iwould discover a passion for maths and science. now, i would also like to talk about— science. now, i would also like to talk about national security concerns _ talk about national security concerns that you have raised. we take these — concerns that you have raised. we take these concerns very, very seriously _ take these concerns very, very seriously. let me start by addressing a few misconceptions about— addressing a few misconceptions about bytedance, of which we are a subsidiary — about bytedance, of which we are a subsidiary. bytedance is not owned or controlled by the chinese government. it is a private company. 60% of— government. it is a private company. 60% of the _ government. it is a private company. 60% of the company is owned by global— 60% of the company is owned by global institutional investors, 20% is owned _ global institutional investors, 20% is owned by the founder and 20% owned _ is owned by the founder and 20% owned by— is owned by the founder and 20% owned by employees around the world. bytedance's five board members, three _ bytedance's five board members, three of— bytedance's five board members, three of them are american. tiktok itself— three of them are american. tiktok itself is _ three of them are american. tiktok itself is not — three of them are american. tiktok itself is not available in mainland china _ itself is not available in mainland china we — itself is not available in mainland china. we are headquartered in los angeles _ china. we are headquartered in los angeles and in singapore, and we have 7000 — angeles and in singapore, and we have 7000 employees in the us today. still, have 7000 employees in the us today. still. we _ have 7000 employees in the us today. still, we have heard important concerns— still, we have heard important concerns about the potential for unwanted foreign access to us data

and potential manipulation of the tiktok— and potential manipulation of the tiktok us— and potential manipulation of the tiktok us ecosystem. our approach has never— tiktok us ecosystem. our approach has never been to dismiss or trivialise _ has never been to dismiss or trivialise any of these concerns. we have addressed them with real action~ — have addressed them with real action. now, that is what we have been _ action. now, that is what we have been doing — action. now, that is what we have been doing for the last two years. building _ been doing for the last two years. building what amounts to a firewall that seals _ building what amounts to a firewall that seals off protected us user data from authorised foreign access. the bottom — data from authorised foreign access. the bottom line is this. death from an authorised foreign access. american _ an authorised foreign access. american data stored on american soil by— american data stored on american soil by an — american data stored on american soil by an american company, overseen— soil by an american company, overseen by american personnel. you call this— overseen by american personnel. you call this initiative project texas. that— call this initiative project texas. that is— call this initiative project texas. that is where oracle is headquartered. today us data is stored _ headquartered. today us data is stored by— headquartered. today us data is stored by default in oracle service. only personnel... can control access to this _ only personnel... can control access to this data — only personnel... can control access to this data. additionally we have plans— to this data. additionally we have plans for— to this data. additionally we have plans for this company to report to an independent american board with strong _ an independent american board with strong security credentials. there are still— strong security credentials. there

are still some work to do. we have legacy— are still some work to do. we have legacy us — are still some work to do. we have legacy us data sitting on our servers— legacy us data sitting on our servers in— legacy us data sitting on our servers in virginia and in singapore. we are deleting those and we expect— singapore. we are deleting those and we expect that to be completed this year _ we expect that to be completed this year and _ we expect that to be completed this year. and that is done, all protected us data will be under the protection of us law and under the control— protection of us law and under the control of— protection of us law and under the control of us led security team. this eliminates the concern that some _ this eliminates the concern that some of— this eliminates the concern that some of you have shared with me that tiktok— some of you have shared with me that tiktok user— some of you have shared with me that tiktok user data can be subject to chinese _ tiktok user data can be subject to chinese law. this goes further, by the way _ chinese law. this goes further, by the way. than what any other company in our— the way. than what any other company in our industry has done. we also provide _ in our industry has done. we also provide unprecedented transparency and security for the source code for the tiktok— and security for the source code for the tiktok app and recommended engine _ the tiktok app and recommended engine. third—party validator is like oracle and others will review and validate our source code and algorithms. this will help ensure the integrity of the code that powers — the integrity of the code that powers what americans see on our app~ _ powers what americans see on our app~ we _ powers what americans see on our app. we will further provide access to the _ app. we will further provide access to the researchers which helps them study _ to the researchers which helps them study and _ to the researchers which helps them study and monitor our ecosystem. we believe _ study and monitor our ecosystem. we believe we _ study and monitor our ecosystem. we believe we are the only, the only

company— believe we are the only, the only company that offers this level of transparency. trust is about actions we take _ transparency. trust is about actions we take we — transparency. trust is about actions we take. we have to earn trust with the decisions we make for our company— the decisions we make for our company and our products. the potential— company and our products. the potential security, privacy and content — potential security, privacy and content manipulation concerns raised about— content manipulation concerns raised about tiktok are really not unique to us _ about tiktok are really not unique to us the — about tiktok are really not unique to us. the same issues apply to other— to us. the same issues apply to other companies. we believe what is needed _ other companies. we believe what is needed are _ other companies. we believe what is needed are clear, transparent rules that apply— needed are clear, transparent rules that apply broadly to all tech companies. ownership is not at the core of— companies. ownership is not at the core of addressing these concerns. now, _ core of addressing these concerns. now. as _ core of addressing these concerns. now. as i — core of addressing these concerns. now, as i conclude, there are more than _ now, as i conclude, there are more than 150 _ now, as i conclude, there are more than 150 million americans who will love our— than 150 million americans who will love our platform we have a response ability _ love our platform we have a response ability to _ love our platform we have a response ability to protect them, which is why i_ ability to protect them, which is why i am — ability to protect them, which is why i am making the following commitments to you and all our users _ commitments to you and all our users. another one, we will keep safety, _ users. another one, we will keep safety, particularly for teenagers, as a top _ safety, particularly for teenagers, as a top priority for us. number two, _ as a top priority for us. number two. we — as a top priority for us. number two, we will fly will protect the us data from — two, we will fly will protect the us data from unwanted foreign access.

number— data from unwanted foreign access. number three, tiktok will remain in place _ number three, tiktok will remain in place for— number three, tiktok will remain in place for free expression and will not be _ place for free expression and will not be manipulated by any government. and forth, we'll be transparent and we will give access to third—party independent monitors that remain accountable for our that remain accountable for . . i that remain accountable for out — m- that remain accountable for out _ i would be that remain accountable for our i would be grateful for commitments. i would be grateful for any feedback that you have and i look forward to your questions. thank— look forward to your questions. thank you _ look forward to your questions. thank you very much. as look forward to your questions. thank you very much.— look forward to your questions. thank you very much. as you know, detest me — thank you very much. as you know, detest me that _ thank you very much. as you know, detest me that you're _ thank you very much. as you know, detest me that you're about - thank you very much. as you know, detest me that you're about to - detest me that you're about to give... detest me that you're about to cive. .. . detest me that you're about to cive... . .. detest me that you're about to i ive. . . ., ., , . detest me that you're about to ive... ., . . give... that was the chief executive of tiktok, shou _ give... that was the chief executive of tiktok, shou zi _ give... that was the chief executive of tiktok, shou zi chew. _ give... that was the chief executive of tiktok, shou zi chew. notably i of tiktok, shou zi chew. notably emphasising the fact that he is from singapore, not from china, which is a point that may have escaped the awareness of some in the us and perhaps in this country well. he was educated in both the uk and the united states. let's talk to our correspondence in the united states, michelle fleury and other correspondence also joining us is a doctor. it's taught them both. first of all, if you

listen to speeches, you might rather suspect there is a pre—assumption built into the approach of this hearing. is that typical to congressional committeesi think this was always going to go this way. you know, not since _ was always going to go this way. m. know, not since donald trump threatened to ban tiktok has the company faced such an existential threat and that was always going to make this hearing so challenging for the company's ceo. he is going into it with the fact that legislators are actually united, for once, on the fact that they both want to see this company banned in the united states or at least severely curtailed. a lot of the in society ownership, which we heard the chair of the committee talking about, but also, as you heard from the ranking member on the democrat side, he was more concerned more generally about big technology. so they are united and he is going to face some tough questions today, notably in his prepared remarks, although he addressed many of the concerns that are out there, he did not talk about

the spying of us journalists and i suspect that is something he is going to get hammered about again and again during the course of this hearing. 1 and again during the course of this hearinu. . ., and again during the course of this hearinu. _, . ,, ., and again during the course of this hearinu. ., hearing. i will come back to you in a moment. _ hearing. i will come back to you in a moment, michelle. _ hearing. i will come back to you in a moment, michelle. stephanie, i hearing. i will come back to you in i a moment, michelle. stephanie, you have written a book, technology is not neutral, a short guide to technology ethics. do share the view of the chief executive there, shou zi chew, that actually think there is a problem with tiktok, perhaps they should also look closer to home? . . they should also look closer to home? , ., ., , , ~' home? yes, what was really striking with the american _ home? yes, what was really striking with the american woman _ home? yes, what was really striking with the american woman who - home? yes, what was really striking with the american woman who was l with the american woman who was beginning — with the american woman who was beginning the introduction for this discussion— beginning the introduction for this discussion is that if you have just removed — discussion is that if you have just removed the word tiktok and replace it with _ removed the word tiktok and replace it with any— removed the word tiktok and replace it with any us technology app, the accusation— it with any us technology app, the accusation she was making about data surveillance _ accusation she was making about data surveillance and risks to children's mental— surveillance and risks to children's mental health, etc, all would apply and that— mental health, etc, all would apply and that is— mental health, etc, all would apply and that is notjust theoretical, we have _ and that is notjust theoretical, we have the _ and that is notjust theoretical, we have the receipt to back it up, they have _ have the receipt to back it up, they have also— have the receipt to back it up, they have also interfered with elections and modified algorithms experimentally without telling users. — experimentally without telling users, harvested data, manipulated elections. _ users, harvested data, manipulated elections, etc, the list goes on and

on, elections, etc, the list goes on and on. so _ elections, etc, the list goes on and on, so banning tiktok or forcing it to sell— on, so banning tiktok or forcing it to sell its— on, so banning tiktok or forcing it to sell its business, to divest to the united _ to sell its business, to divest to the united states, is not going to solve _ the united states, is not going to solve that— the united states, is not going to solve that problem. we need to fix the entire — solve that problem. we need to fix the entire data ecosystem infrastructure in the us. is there an appetite. _ infrastructure in the us. is there an appetite, michelle, _ infrastructure in the us. is there an appetite, michelle, for- infrastructure in the us. is there an appetite, michelle, for that, l infrastructure in the us. is there l an appetite, michelle, for that, do you think? or is it possible to look at this as sort of kind of a glorified protectionism? look, i think if you _ glorified protectionism? look, i think if you are _ glorified protectionism? look, i think if you are here _ glorified protectionism? look, i think if you are here in - glorified protectionism? look, i- think if you are here in washington, there is absolutely an appetite amongst politicians to bandits. in part, it is driven notjust by the concerns about data, which applies, as stephanie was just saying, to all of the big technology companies, but also it is a question of ownership and this is something that is going to be difficult for tiktok to escape, the fact that at a time when you have ratcheting tensions between the united states and china, this question of ultimately who controls tiktok and the fact that there are new securities in china that potentially allow the company to demand access to data, even though it hasn't been proven yet, i think

thatis it hasn't been proven yet, i think that is at the core of some of the concerns that we are going to be hearing today. concerns that we are going to be hearing today-— concerns that we are going to be hearing today. concerns that we are going to be hearin: toda . ,, , ., , ., hearing today. stephanie, is there a case for saying _ hearing today. stephanie, is there a case for saying that _ hearing today. stephanie, is there a case for saying that tiktok - hearing today. stephanie, is there a case for saying that tiktok is - case for saying that tiktok is materially different, notjust because of that question of ultimate ability of the chinese authorities insofar as they can access data to demand access to data, but is it from companies that have this exposure in china, but also this question of the kind of basic argument, can it apply to other areas of business as well? because one of the criticism is often raised and one of the concerns often expressed by those who consider doing business in a country like china is that they don't feel that their data, their intellectual property is safe. i their data, their intellectual property is safe.— their data, their intellectual property is safe. i mean, it isn't safe. property is safe. i mean, it isn't safe- that— property is safe. i mean, it isn't safe. that is _ property is safe. i mean, it isn't safe. that is not _ property is safe. i mean, it isn't safe. that is not a _ property is safe. i mean, it isn't safe. that is not a controversial| safe. that is not a controversial statement. _ safe. that is not a controversial statement, intellectual property theft by — statement, intellectual property theft by chinese companies and the chinese _ theft by chinese companies and the chinese government has been a problem — chinese government has been a problem that has plagued us companies and those of others around the world _ companies and those of others around the world for years. i think the poiht _

the world for years. i think the poiht that— the world for years. i think the point that you raise around we don't know— point that you raise around we don't know how— point that you raise around we don't know how independent tiktok really is is the _ know how independent tiktok really is is the one we need to really drive — is is the one we need to really drive home in this discussion. the financial— drive home in this discussion. the financial times hasjust published financial times has just published an article — financial times hasjust published an article saying that china's commerce ministry has warned that a sale of— commerce ministry has warned that a sale of tiktok has to be approved by the chinese — sale of tiktok has to be approved by the chinese government. so that tells you — the chinese government. so that tells you right there, this is not an independent company who isjust responding to its global investors, as mr— responding to its global investors, as mr chew was portraying. this is a company— as mr chew was portraying. this is a company that is compelled by chinese law to _ company that is compelled by chinese law to hand _ company that is compelled by chinese law to hand over data, it is considered to be a national security concern _ considered to be a national security concern for— considered to be a national security concern for china, and can even choose — concern for china, and can even choose to — concern for china, and can even choose to sell its business, it wants — choose to sell its business, it wants to. _ choose to sell its business, it wants to, —— cannot even choose to sell its — wants to, —— cannot even choose to sell its business if it wants to without — sell its business if it wants to without approval from the chinese government. if they don't approve sell. _ government. if they don't approve sell. what — government. if they don't approve sell, what can tiktok do? stay with me for a moment, _ sell, what can tiktok do? stay with me for a moment, you're _ sell, what can tiktok do? stay with me for a moment, you're watching | sell, what can tiktok do? stay with - me for a moment, you're watching bbc news on the bbc. just to give you a quick update on this committee hearing, it is the house energy and commerce committee at the hearing is going to be continuing throughout the next couple of hours and we will

be monitoring all of the questions and answers and seas we get anything thatis and answers and seas we get anything that is particularly newsworthy and fresh from the chief executive. you are watching bbc news. good afternoon. still very mild out there, some sunny spells to come in there, some sunny spells to come in the forecast and plenty more rainbows to be spotted as well. some very typically springlike weather, it's very changeable and it will stay unsettled as we head through the rest of the week. so more wet and windy weather at times, but also some sunshine and then it will turn colder over the course of the weekend. for the rest of the afternoon there will be widespread showers, also some sunny spells, too. it's a bit drier across much of scotland than we saw yesterday and the winds are lighter, but still some heavy rain across the northern isles and more heavy rain moving towards the south of england by the end of the afternoon, eventually stretching into east anglia. it's blustery with a brisk

south—westerly wind, especially for south—west facing coastal, some coastal overtopping here at high tide. the air is mild, temperatures peaking between 12 and 15 celsius, so well above the seasonal average. as we head to this evening and overnight then our area of rain towards the south of england will be pushing its way out of east anglia as we head to the small hours. still some uncertainty as to the northern extent of this rain. there will be a lot of clear skies around, temperatures, though, frost—free between 4 and 7 celsius and more showers throughout the night across northern ireland and scotland and they'll continue tomorrow morning. the centre of low pressure is across northern ireland so these showers could be really rather slow—moving. elsewhere, the showers will blow along really quite swiftly on the brisk south—westerly wind, possibly the windiest day of the week for england and wales and some of the showers will have some lightning, some thunder and some hail at times. the air is still mild, temperatures will take temperatures will peak between 12 and iii degrees, but that is about to change as this area of low pressure pours its way out of scotland into the north sea on friday night. we start to draw in more of a northerly wind,

allowing that colder arctic air to push southwards, so some of the showers could turn out to be a bit wintry, there will be a bit of wind chill. it's a bit of a messy picture on saturday because further south across england and wales there will be fewer showers with lighter winds and the air still is mild here. this rain set to push in on saturday night into sunday morning. also on saturday night into sunday morning, we re—enter british summer time with the clock springing forward by one hour. but it won't feel very summery at all, it's going to feel an awful lot like winter. because as our area of low pressure pours its way eastwards again, it will see the northerly wind become more widespread, some cold air and a widespread frost.

pushing back against inflation, the bank of england becomes the neat latest major central bank to increase borrowing under global pressures.