president biden has confirmed that the us will begin its final military withdrawal from afghanistan next month. mr biden said his goal was for the pull—out to be completed by the 20th anniversary of the september 11 terror attacks, and that it was time to end america's longest war. a white former policewoman in the us state of minnesota has been charged with manslaughter over the fatal shooting of a young black man following a confrontation at a traffic stop. kim potter resigned after the death of daunte wright, saying she had meant to draw her taser, not her handgun. british mps have rejected a labour proposalfor a parliamentary inquiry into lobbying, after the former prime minster, david cameron contacted ministers while working for the finance firm, greensill capital. the vote doesn't affect a review, led by a lawyer, already announced by the government.

now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. from john lennon to bob marley, the music business has embraced songwriters who combine their beats with political activism. my guest has upheld that tradition with an energy which sets him apart. serj tankian is best known as frontman of the heavy metal band system of a down. he's also an arch advocate for his family's homeland, armenia. his passionate views on genocide, war and corrupt governance have won him millions of fans and numerous enemies too. which matters more to him — the politics or the music?

serj tankian in los angeles, welcome to hardtalk. thank you, stephen. thanks for having me on. it's a pleasure to have you on the show. i don't want to start in a downbeat way, but i can't help noticing that you recently described the last year as the worst of your life. i guess we can all imagine why that might be, butjust spell it out for me. well, i mean, covid obviously is a huge part of it, but also i had other health issues. my back, i got back surgery recently, and recovering from that. and so that's been challenging. and there's also the invasion of nagorno—karabakh by azerbaijan and turkey,

with syrian mercenaries, that really, you know, created a humanitarian catastrophe within armenia. so that's been really, you know, very tough. it's been a very tough year. right. in the course of that answer, you've taken me from your home in los angeles all the way out to armenia, and i suspect armenia will figure large in our conversation. would it be fair to say that to understand you, your mind—set, your world view, one has to understand that, in many ways, it wasn't forged by your upbringing as a kid in los angeles, where you moved as a child, but it's much more forged by the collective memory your family has of armenia? i think it's a fair balance. that's a good question, stephen. i think it's a fair balance because i grew up in los angeles, i've lived here most of my life. i live between los angeles and new zealand as well. i'm a resident of new zealand. and so i think, you know, wherever you live does make a huge impact, culturally, on who you are, but i think

the reverence, understanding and cultural kind of depth of my people is a huge part of who i am as well. yes. you were born in beirut, and the reason you were born in beirut is because your family was caught up in all of the terrible violence and suffering wrought upon the armenian people in the years 1915 to '16 by the ottoman turkish empire, and yourfamily ended up living in lebanon. did you, as a child, get raised on stories of what happened? i'm just wondering what specific impact that had upon you. all four of my grandparents were survivors of the armenian genocide. growing up in los angeles, i mean, they didn't share the stories when i was a child, but as i was getting into my early teens, i started asking questions about theirfamily,

where they came from, what happened to them, and that obviously was a huge, you know, kind of learning experience for me, as to what transpired to my people during the ottoman empire... in the last days of the ottoman empire, i should say, and that became kind of like — i'll tell you without you asking the question — that became the conduit for me to become an activist, when i learned about the... you know, when i learned that the us was trying to use the armenian genocide — the g—word, as we call it — as political capital, or economic...for economic purposes in dealing with turkey, a nato ally, it made me feel like there are probably so many other truths that are being either denied or, you know, scrubbed under the carpet for geopolitical reasons or economic reasons. that made me an activist. interesting that you define yourself as an activist. most people watching this, tuning in around the world, will think of you first and foremost as a musician. so before we get to your

commitment to activism, i just want to understand why, as the kid that you were, with the knowledge you had of your family's suffering, and everything that that did to your way of seeing the world, why did you ever feel that heavy metal music could be a vehicle for you expressing yourself? i always say music came to me. i was, you know... i didn't grow up as a musician, like most of my band mates, starting playing music at eight years old or anything like that. i started at university, almost as a way of meditation, kind of taking me away from my other worries and homework and everything else that i had to do, and music became my passion. and for years, i didn't take it as my vision in life until i had a kind of epiphany. as you've seen in the film truth to power. and from that day forward, i knew that music was my path, but i was an activist before

becoming a musician, so the two kind of naturally combined in... yeah. well, you talk about your film truth to power, and a lot of that is about your politics, but a lot of it is about the music too, and when we see the young serj on stage in the mid and late �*90s and early 2000s, withjust thousands of adoring fans, as the popularity of your band grew and, frankly, heavy metal music, a genre which often, you know, can be sexist and it can indulge in occult imagery and all sorts of stuff, it is an awful long way from serj the political activist. how did you sort of square the two at the time? well, you know, it's kind of interesting you say that. the first band i played in, i played at keyboards, and it wasn't heavy metal at all, it was alternative rock, you know, and i met our guitarist daron, he was really into heavy music. our bassist shavo, later on,

was also very much into heavy music, and my brother kind of grew up on heavy music. so i used to listen to metal and heavy rock at home growing up. so it kind of crept into my life and it became the kind of language of my activism, and rock, as you well know, stephen, is the perfect language for protest, it's the perfect language for rebellion. that's why its people in their teens that usually pick it up. # god wants you to go to war. look, you know, music is an intuitive medium, and when it hits you, you feel something, irrespective of you kind of imbibing the words immediately.

and i think once you feel something, you have that kind of natural, intuitive response to the music. you can later process the lyrics and have a more logical response. i always say that your first response to music is always intuitive. it's always right brain. and then once you get into the words and you process them in a left brain format, that becomes even more powerful together. hmm. so here you are. you're becoming a big band. i think, in 2001, which was a pretty crucial year for you, you got the number one album in the billboard top 100, and within days of releasing that album, i think i'm right in saying, 9/11 happened in the united states. and you then chose, just a couple of days after that, to write a piece which you put out under the name of the band, not in your own personal name, which essentially said that what happened on 9/11 could be tied directly to us foreign policy, and that the us had to take responsibility for that.

that caused a massive stir across the united states. you were banned from certain radio stations. you received death threats, as did some of your band mates. looking back on it, do you think you got that wrong? no. if you read understanding oil, which is the essay that i wrote on september 12 or 13, that i posted to the band's website, it's a very kind of balanced... you know, as a young person, i was trying to understand what was going on. i felt very helpless, i felt scared. as a citizen of the us, seeing those bombings, we all kind of were in trauma at the time, and i was trying to really understand how something like this could happen. and to do so, you have to look into history. you have to look into us complicity in the different dictatorships that have been running a good part of the middle east. and those people coming from those dictatorships,

specifically saudi arabia, which most of the terrorists were from, and so, by doing so, you were trying to narrow down what's really happening and also calling for a multilateral approach to going after whoever�*s committed these atrocities in terms ofjustice, and not the kind of george w bush cowboy response that we saw, you know, as a follow—up. so that's what i was trying to do. right. but, serj, if i may say so, you weren't a solo artist. you were part of a band, and bands are collectives, and, you know, the other three members of your band were also armenian americans, but were guys who did not necessarily share your politics. in a band, if you get completely political, not only does it turn off a lot of fans, which is understandable, but it's also not necessarily the goal of the other guys in your team. sure. so were you selfish rather than collectivist? well, no.

i should say that i was responsible for posting a lot of stuff for the band and for the band's website at the time. so you have to look at that in reference. i posted a lot of political commentary on an almost weekly if not daily basis for the band's website. and that's something ijust did. it's not something new that ijust picked up because of the events that occurred. so, for me, it was no different than what i had already been doing, in that sense, but, yes, i mean, there was a huge response, obviously. sony, at the time, that was our label, columbia records, they took down the writing off the website. we were about to start a tour during that time. you know, you had television stations kind of warning that there might be other terrorist attacks — red, you know, orange, all these different flash danger signs, and we're in front of 20,000 or 30,000 fans a night playing our repertoire. it was a very stressful time. and of course, the band sat me down and goes, "what are you doing? are you trying to get us killed?" and of course,

i was very apologetic. and that's, you know... ijust wonder, serj, if you reflect now, in 2021, on everything that's happened over the last 20 years, is one of the reasons that the band system of a down isn't really around today... i know you've done one or two one—off gigs and songs, but you didn't become a kind of rolling stones thatjust churned out the album after album after album. you could have made a whole shedload of money. you could have prolonged your band career. but is one reason you didn't that you and the other guys were just not on the same page politically, and still are not today? cos i know one band member voted for donald trump, you voted for bernie sanders. was that a problem in the band? you know, a band is an interesting dynamic, and i always say good bands have very varied dynamics, you know, so that is definitely... it could be a part of it.

there are many reasons, more artistic reasons than political, that the band has not become the rolling stones. but i should also say not every band wants to be the rolling stones, touring in their 70s and become a mega—mega whatever that is. our success... we've had an incredible amount of success, and the income that comes from it, and i think we're all very grateful and thankful for where we are. let's then get back to the specifics of your activism and to armenia, because in yourfight, as you put it, forjustice around the world, you became increasingly committed to the fight to see, you know, better governance in armenia, and you were very keen to join the street protests and the people power revolutionaries who were determined to bring down the long—serving president/prime minister of armenia, who served for many years, mr sargsyan. now, you, in 2015, played a gig in yerevan, which was wrapped up with the whole sort of concept of protest. were you then determined to play a political role at that point?

no, i mean, i've always... look, stephen, i haven'tjust criticised us foreign policy, nor israeli occupation of palestine, norjust certain, you know, dictatorships around the world. i've always criticised everything as an activist, and so armenia was not included, you know? so, in 2013, i had criticised serzh sargsyan, the president at the time, for his re—election campaign, because it was rigged with flaws, and so i think i was already part of that process. and in 2015, when we played a show in armenia, it was the first time system of a down played a show in armenia, at the centennial of the armenian genocide. it was a very special moment for all of us. it felt like we were designed

as a band to be there, you know, to speak truth to power, if i will, to, you know... ..to the government at the time in armenia, to talk about the kind of hypocrisy of the obama administration not using the word "genocide", even though obama, as a candidate, used the word "genocide" many times and blamed george w bush for not using it, you know, and such things, and so i was automatically part of the process, in a way. # electric! # electric yerevan! # we say no to corruption and no to plunder. # billionaire playgrounds are going under # electric! # electric yerevan! # seems like the brutal police . crackdown with water cannons and beating people up, including journalists, . has predictably brought morei people out onto the streets... so when the peaceful

revolution in 2018, the velvet revolution, happened, and they were asking me to go and be part of the protest, i wanted to go. i was actually really sick. i had a flu and fever and whatnot. and as soon as i got over it, i got on a plane and went there. and i was really, reallyjust overjoyed with the elation in people's faces at this kind of turnaround that they had done, this kind of incredible change in leadership that they had started, and i had so much hope for the country... well, let me stop you there, because what intrigues me is that, of course, in 2018, this revolutionary moment happened in armenia, and the guy who became your friend, nikol pashinyan, who was a journalist and who became leader of the country, he then led

the country into what we've seen in the last few months as a pretty disastrous war. but you're, interestingly, no longer an outsider. you're an insider, because you're a very good friend of his. ijust wonder if it's become more difficult for you to criticise, because you've become a close ally of the prime minister. so, i met nikol pashinyan when i actually flew into armenia for the revolution. i had not met him before and, you know, i saw him become prime minister after the revolution. by the way, the revolution was an incredible event — for the first time in history, decentralised civil disobedience was used as a tool for civil... ..for change. and we've made a film called i am not alone, an award—winning film, documentary film, that's coming out this year about that event. but i'll get back to your question. so i went to armenia for the revolution. i watched nikol pashinyan

become prime minister, and forged a relationship with him, obviously, and over the years, like, you know, the revolution was a high point in armenian history. it was a unique moment where the full nation was basically, you know...the whole armenian nation was into this incredible change — positive, peaceful change — that occurred, because for years, for 20—something, almost 30 years, armenia was under a post—soviet, oligarchic kind of corrupt regime, and people were voting with their feet, as they say. they were leaving the country. there were no economic opportunities for people. you couldn't getjustice in the courts, etc. and so this change and this fight against corruption was really monumental in armenia, based on what was going on there. i understand that, but i also

see today that there are many thousands of armenians taking to the streets demanding the departure of mr pashinyan, and the reason is because they think they completely mishandled the war with azerbaijan. he used plenty of bellicose language in the years running up to the war, but when it came to the war itself, armenia seemed drastically underprepared and, in essence, lost that war and has indeed lost territory in nagorno—karabakh and around nagorno—karabakh as a result. that's correct. what do you think should happen now? well, there are new snap parliamentary elections happening injune 20, and the government agreed to do that before their time was up, obviously, as you're well aware, and so i think that's a very positive thing because it continues the democratic and constitutional process, rather than give way to other processes, right? you know, what happened here was that azerbaijan and turkey, along with syrian mercenaries, attacked the peaceful country of nagorno—karabakh — artsakh, we call in armenian. well, that's

obviously in dispute. and i don't want to get stuck on who started what... that's not in dispute at all. well, it's certainly in dispute. if you talk to azeris or to... as you've just accused the turks, they would deny what you just said. i'm sorry. i don't accept their truth, if they're genocide deniers or dictators, and that's what both turkey and azerbaijan's leadership are. well, that's what you've called the turks for a long time, and they — and i should point this out — turkey always refuses to accept the word "genocide" when it comes to a description of what happened in 1915 to �*16 to the armenian people. but what i'm interested in, serj, is whether your experience tells you that creatives such as yourself, artists such as yourself, can make a difference in the political debate, because certainly, in the united states, it seems the dial has moved, and back in 2019 the us congress finally formally voted to acknowledge what happened in 1915 to �*16 as a genocide. do you believe you

made a difference? you know, i'd like to believe that the band's activism was part of the general armenian diaspora's efforts to get the genocide recognised. even though we played a small part of it, i'm very proud of that. and i think we're fairly confident that president biden is going to formally recognise the genocide this april as well. and i think it's time the uk parliament does it as well and stops being one of the few western nations that hasn't properly recognised the genocide. i'm mindful that you tell a story how you made a pledge to your grandfather, who did escape the suffering of 1915 to �*16, he ended up being a refugee, he fled to syria and then lebanon, and he was so malnourished during the suffering that he became blind, and you promised that you would always fight to have what happened to him acknowledged, the truth told, and you would struggle

forjustice. do you believe that you fulfilled your promise to your grandfather? i believe so. i believe that i'm still fulfilling it, even doing this interview and talking about the need for the uk to recognise the genocide. it's part of the process. i think that fight is not over. i think there's still a lot of misinformation out there, there's a lot of denialism out there, mostly by turkey and azerbaijan at this point, and that's got to be reversed. serj, we've talked a lot in this interview about music and about politics and activism. the balance seems to have changed for you.

now you seem primarily focused on the politics and the activism. could it change yet again, or is your creative impulse now taking second place? i'm currently scoring a series. i'm always working on music. at the same time, music is both my form of expression and my escape at the same time, and when i do too much politics, it's nice to pick up a guitar or piano, and dive into that beautiful, meditative world and create something that hasn't existed before. and so, to me, they coexist in a perfect balance. serj tankian, it's been a pleasure having you on hardtalk. thank you very much indeed. thank you, stephen.

hello there. most of us had a fine and dry day yesterday with some welcome sunshine. now, across quite widely the north and west of the country, temperatures are actually a little bit above average for the time of year. about 3 degrees above around the glasgow area. across eastern england, there were some areas a little bit on the cool side, for example, london. mainly because we had the wins come again from the relatively cool north sea around this area of high pressure. similar wind pattern on thursday, similar distribution of temperatures again across these north—western areas we will see some of the warmest weather. it's not particularly warm at the moment. indeed temperatures are dropping very quickly underneath these clear and starry skies. the wind is light, could bejust a few mist and fog patches, although probably not quite as many as we had this time yesterday. temperatures at the lowest, —3, “i! celsius or so across parts of north—east england. there will be quite a widespread frost first thing. so a frosty start to the day but a beautiful start as well with clear blue skies in many places. lots of sunshine on the cards. but as we head through the day, we are going to see some cloud

build in, particularly across central and eastern england, and indeed a line of showers will develop across east anglia and south—east england, with some of them heavyish but i don't think there will be any thunderstorms around. the further north—west you are the clearest the skies will be. plenty of sunshine even into the afternoon, even for these areas. and it's here where we will see some of the highest temperatures again probably reaching around 15 degrees celsius. a little cooler than that across central and eastern areas of england. if anything, those temperatures down a little bit compared with wednesday's. for the end of the week, high pressure is still with us and that means another fine, frosty start to the day. plenty of sunshine, a little bit of cloud bubbling up as we head into the afternoon. towards the north—west, you might find a little bit of slightly thicker cloud beginning to make inroads, but most of that's going to be quite high. just making the sunshine a little on the hazy side. so for many of us, after a cold start to the day,

a bit of cloud bubbles up but essentially a fine day. for the weekend prospects, weather fronts are going to get pretty close to the northwest of the country. across most of england and wales were looking at this fine spell of weather to continue. probably of the two days, saturday looks like being the sunniest, but sunday is still not bad. further north—west, a bit more cloud around and across the far north—west of the uk through sunday, there is the threat of seeing a little bit of rain. that's your weather.

this is bbc news — i'm sally bundock. president biden confirms the us will complete its military withdrawal from afghanistan — no later than the twentieth anniversary of the september eleventh terror attacks. protesters, carrying black lives matter placards gather in minnesota demanding justice for the killing of the black men, daunte wright — and george floyd. the former british prime minister david cameron says he'll give evidence to mps looking into the lobbying row, involving the collapsed financial firm greensill capital. market success — the crypto—currency coinbase hits a value of nearly one hundred billion dollars on its first day of trading on wall street.