was to turn the city streets into canals, rooms and isolated from around the well certainly by russian full season of leave and then the surrounding countryside, causing fires like this in the forests virtually every day the 1st seniors really official has resigned over how much is october attack, the military intelligence chief took responsibility for major security failures. message does extend during israel's war on gaza and could it be the 1st step towards accountability? this is inside storage, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much i'm ju, them more than 6 months after how much carried out and, and vicious multi pronged defensive on southern israel. the highest ranking is really government official, has step down in his resignation letter, major general

a hiero, and highly noted that authority comes with responsibility and admitted the military intelligence director. it under his command, had failed to warn of the october 7th attack. it comes as public outrage against proceed is really government and military failures. gains momentum will delve into the ramifications of how leave us departure and examine the demands for accountability with our panel in a moment. but 1st, this report from actual same of which a major shake up at the highest level of is really military intelligence. major general, a higher and healthy by his step down. more than 6 months, up to the surprise effect by how most fighters on the southern israel that killed 1139 people. his resignation letter states, the intelligence director at under my command did not fulfill its task. i have carried up black day with me ever since. it's holly, i had already taken full responsibility publicly and the days after the offensive,

but stayed on due to the ongoing war and gaza. now he's become the 1st senior is rarely official to resign over the lapse in security reports suggest up to a year before the october 7th attack. israel had received intelligence that how most was preparing for an offensive in the days leading up to it both allies and is really military intelligence noted, unusual activity in gaza. but those warnings were not heated. and this really military was taken by surprise leading to a delayed response, probably by his call for the establishment of a state committee to fully investigate the failings that lead to the unprecedented assault. his resignation has increased the pressure of prime minister benjamin netanyahu, who has resist the calls, the step down. that is one line that was directed is directed to the prime minister. he says, also writing comes ways, responsibility,

and now is the highest authority. and he never took responsibility. so actually, we still hardly wanted to set kind of a personal message to nothing. you know, to tell him if i can do it, you also should do it with how leave us departure. the focus now turns to how israel's, the military and political leadership will address the growing public demand for accountability. excellence i much l g 0 for insights story. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our panel in london. daniel levy is the president of us middle east project. he advised the who'd brock when he served this is really prime minister in sydney, australia. anthony lowenstein is the author of the recently published book, the palestine laboratory, a global investigation into how israel's occupation has provided a testing ground for weapons and technology exported globally. and until we get in

levy is a column this for the hearts newspaper and the author of the punishment of gaza. a book about the development of the israeli policy that led to the 2009 invasion of the gaza strip. a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. daniel, let me start with you today. so military intelligence chief, our own, how leave it has become the 1st senior is really official to resign over failures to prevent the october 7th attack. i'm curious about the timing why step down now and will this set the stage for more resignations that i cannot speak to that question of timing bearer room is regarding one of these deputies having to have flat full health issues which may have actually delayed. i leave is a departure there is certainly speculation that has been for some time that some of the security military chiefs who have very on the, on the stage of their intention,

was that they would not continue uh, off to the and all the small i think it's clear that nothing. yeah, he's looking at a long war forever. will that? um they would step down. i think some this was intended to build pressure on the prime minister. it may be the some now feel that there is no pressure on the prime minister, and this is a way of trying to generate that. of course, there's no serious undertaking of a commission of inquiry, but i think one can get lost in those granular details. and missed the big picture, which is good, whether it's inside the military or the political cloth. the ability to seriously reflect on not just what happened on that day. and this is the crucial thing you've done to vote because he's narrow, lead on this idea that there was an intelligent stadium and it almost up to the essence of every who is a role with the way this is looked at. but the intel chief has gone fast because

the problem isn't one of intel and not narrow security military sense. the problem is intelligence in terms of bolt was if you looked it up in a dictionary, intelligence being intelligent, not being stupid. and the idea that you could keep the palestinians in the situation without rights, without enfranchisement, without freedom to congress, the patient under defaulted, reggie. this would deliver security. that's the question of whether the intel flows were working properly. that's a basic stupidity that will never hold. everybody i saw you are reacting to what daniel was saying there's, i want to let you jump in, but i also want to ask you what message does this send while the war on guys a continues a little i'd say to these riley public who are increasingly dissolution and makes a lot not very strong. i mean, as daniel riley says, if i look through the intelligence in a very narrow sense, then i'll type a 7 was a contest of interior element in the broader sense. this was 5 bigger than that.

and what i mean by that is that for many, many, many of these really public, this is not just a government and intelligence failure. my name is riley, probably with sold, convinced i would say, who links into believing that johnson's $2300000.00 of them, for the case indifferent lane, without any kind of serious response and a long the guy's a israel fence. there has been huge amounts to these riley companies that have spent lots of money, billions and billions of dollars something i looked at in my book, trying to protect israel from guidance, which clearly failed miserably. and it's interesting to know many of those companies that failed. so miserably on that day, they technology failed. the site failed us selling and testing weapons in gallons, as we speak to foreign bias, smelling woods and intelligence chief cook chase can leave, can resign other people. and i felt like none of that will change the fact to the

end of this war. whenever that happens, easier i will be less safe than it was on october. the 6th gideon, in how leave is resignation letter. he wrote that authority comes with the responsibility and that's being interpreted by many and is real as a suggestion that it may be time for prime minister netanyahu that he go ahead and resign. do you believe that her leave a was intending to send that signal, that it's time for nets and yahoo to face account ability. and it might very be a little wise what a police, a good guy with 0 to friends and a 45 minutes, which but this against the video. but you know, how do you guys know the position to this? what to do? i know surprise that users i need extra price users. i didn't, you only know because you couldn't function ever since the center software. ok. the function ever since there was a listen to he and he from what they said to him, what kind of responsibility to use it to listen to such

a failure. so how do i forget to always own the juniors must go in the same time. i totally agree drawn to me and i'm here namely that we have the failure of the 7. this is just the small failure. this doesn't mean that people are responsible for this. better to go way big say there is still on such thing is ryan, is a big move, drawing any less from the sevens. he's a student believe so the by the more intensively in the old believes that we can continue with their probation continue was about, i think we can leave one or 4 or, you know, solve forever getting. and let me just follow up with you and ask you about the fact that i believe also called for the establishment of a state committee to fully investigate the failings that led to the assault on october 7th. is that something we're going to see happen at any point soon? it even easier to see why muds don't expect too much to see those

investigation coming to cities right. posted for the last 4 months. a year is a duty. no one remembers what was the cause of their establishment and then the hour was vague and never voltage issue at the expense of the $10.00 baby room. and it always thinks any kind of committee will think there's a committee. but everyone speaks about the investigation committee means to postpone every seeing an investigation with the concluded me, truthfully. yes by. there's no reason to investigate. just think so. still clear. there was no on the, on the 7th there was no, we did a chance on the 7th. is there any hope to finding jobs? i was think of the case. we don't have any solution in any intention to put that into daniel, i can see you reacting as well to get in this thing there. so i'm going to give you the chance to go and jump in as well. go ahead. well,

i always enjoy you. if that's the right, what i'm listening to get on. this is the point. i don't think people should have expectations from what an investigation within that structure within that system can come up with. because the questions will not be the questions that need to be off. yes, they'll be things about the material that was asked on taken seriously, but it's that granular detail which is the least important lesson to learn because the questions that one could almost be guaranteed will not be on the table. all the questions of what are the root cause is, how do we treat the palestinians? i'm here i, you know, i think sometimes we get b, b, i test. we may be so much about nothing. yahoo, it's a system. it's just the demick strong violence thing. the, the political boss and the military. oh cool, cool it up it. when, when you do hear people say, well there's going to be diplomacy fine. that's right. but if the diplomacy on

alpha is nothing more than the how one manages the system of occupation and a politic then that's not actually, you know, trying to do. so the question won't be on the table of whether it, israel's, the process of having security collaboration with the palestinian authority in the west bank, but has no credibility with its people of trying to blockade laws in. definitely, because you think perhaps you can domesticate how much of a regional set of relations which are all built on. i would argue it costs loops, and so you know what, what is, what are these normalization abraham record agreements? donald is around in practice school. they've told these really is this idea a whole side. the things are ok. if we make peace with some people in the gulf, we can continue to keep the palestinians in this condition. so the commercial questions that need to be off will not be optimal. anthony said earlier is really important because one of the signals, the sense is the, the so called stop nation,

the high tech power press being exposed forwards, vulnerabilities managed by use of the world seeing, based on the world is seeing that it's really not managing a symmetric work that effectively because of boss, i would argue some of the on the resistance axis actors are showing that you can turn the power base rent on itself. because when israel responds in the security disproportionate way, it is in fact, on the mining its own equities, whether they be legal, moral to terence, etc. so we have to mean, if we can pick up on what daniel was saying there, and i saw you not in your head responding to some of what he was saying there. if there is the system in place, what happens in the event that there are more resignations? let's say at some point, but nothing. yeah. whose political career comes to an end. many people in israel are calling for him to resign. if we get to a scenario whereby that actually happens or if there are new elections,

what happens there after? i wish i could say the outcome will be very different nits in yahoo on counting paulding would probably lose an election. buddy's unlikely successor benny gans is virtually 9 different on gaza, on the occupation on any accountability just this week in the us as a now as possible sanctions on the particularly extreme element of the idea of, of commit issues. crimes in the west bank. many dances. response was equal outraged, along with mentioned y'all, in other words, if we expected to be radical change, when a different prime minister comes into, all of us will be disappointed. and this guy is, i think, to the broad a point that accountability. we've seen these ro, if a decades has barely exist another woods, there's barely been any soldiers, little line generals actually held to account for crimes committed in the west bank . well, guys are the only way i would argue this will really ever change. and i would argue similarly with the us,

with his behavior in iraq and afghanistan in the last 20 years. so he is our international trials of soldiers for generals of politicians before the international course. the high, for example, that shows a will be a cost, a price for committing crimes in gaza or the west bank. and it's west saying finally that we can investigate to israel can investigate the segments of october as much as a wants. how about what's happened in the last 6 months of segments? i want to try, but in my view was a crime. but what's been happening in the last 6 months, 354550000 potential palestinians killed the vast majority of the civilians. there will be no investigation within these ro, for those palestinians who are being killed. and we've had accountability and international for him because nothing is i can get in. he's been writing this leg mostly for years, but especially since october 7, he's riley culture within the public. forget about the military of intelligence.

there's a beloved last and we've on accountability globally. sadly, this will not change. get in, you heard nancy, they're talking about the fact that you've written extensively about what you call a blood last in is really society. and that's something that i wanted to ask you specifically about. it's been a theme and a lot of your writing, one of your more recent columns. you wrote that it's doubtful. there has ever been so much thirst for blood and war in israel. and i'm curious to get your thoughts about how at this particular moment when there is a lot of condemnation of nets and yahoo and polling suggests that he's at an all time low when it comes to credibility, trust from the public popularity. how much is the fact that what you're calling this blood less existing is really society? how much is that? helping him and his cohorts and government unfortunately takes him at all because the sentence of october to these ladies out of the clothes,

it all changed their minds. but in any case, after the 7th of october, these rarely speed that ever seeing is legit domains. that is what has the right to do what every punch? no, we're getting. it's knowing finish or no, don't quite a deep nazi. both of these are the speed that does it is the spanish man. and most of these ladies think that these are didn't cost any line by cheating stove. i'd see billions now, and the video is just everybody in all these processes. but it's not only about the video i write, i oversee to tag dream to watch the video said that many gods would not be any any better. and no one else, a potential candidate for me is, or we'd be any better owner because of the simple reason that there is quite a concern. so is there any society these orders described is fairly defined the yes, the mind to their families, very united uh,

united about the basic family continue with the patient. going to the swear. always very simple. the score even up to 6 months of pay, the sofa holding the roll continuum, the patient continues often gets waterways, big, big rates, if any forwarding is of support or really $1.00 opinion, which phase are small? so after the civil opinion which say b, m, the right to do whatever we want and nobody to tell us what to do. daniel, i've spent quite a bit of time over the course of the past year, reporting from israel before october 7th. i was reporting on the judicial overall protest where you saw a lot of anger directed toward the netanyahu government plan to try to overall the judiciary. now after october 7th,

there have been these protests that have been increasing. first. it was the family of captives that are being held in gaza. now there are more explicit anti government demonstrations that i'm curious to get your thoughts about. if you think that these different protest movement will co, a less against around sort of an overall angered towards nothing, yahoo and, and how that impacts him specifically at a time when his popularity is an all time low. when people are so angry at him when there are government officials that are saying they're taking responsibility for the intelligence failure that led to october 7th, but nothing. yeah. who is continue to say, essentially he's not taking responsibility that he'll answer tough questions, but it'll be later well, mom and i, i followed some of that reporting that you on the truck. yes, the protest have increased in intensity in recent weeks,

somewhat less since the so many escalation with the wrong. there was anger over the extent to which nothing yahoo was d, prioritize the hostage issue. there was the return to some of that division that we saw prior to october 7th. and it may well be that nothing yahoo is in trouble politically. the polling is not looking good for him, but there's no election uh on the horizon. and this is one of the reasons why nothing. yahoo is a particularly dangerous leader at the moment beyond what we have gotten used to because it seems that he's own political future is tied in to the continuing of the war. but i think it's, it's really crucial to not lose sight of what's being mentioned, which is that if you zoom about the question of nothing, yahoo is a very effective politician. he's very effective. we generally internationally. we don't take that away from him a but the bottom off that he has set out is, is really quite conceptual. and you know, if one goes back to,

to october 7th. and absolutely, that was a violation of international law, proceeded by his rules, violations continued off to which the, one of the things that made that possible that makes the failings possible is if you do schuman nice, the other side, if you hold them inside the content, then that puts you on the power to the kind of hubris which i think led to the stages in the, in the, in what happened. and, you know, the fact that each row is at the international court of justice supposedly violating the genocide convention. the fact could you in special rep who can write a report, francesco benet's, be in that to me of the genocide shows how much deeper than nothing you on this goes the full labor leader who is the president to be as well. isaac pallets, so he's the 1st pass and the i c. j quoted in terms of insight into genocide. and i believe because a good question that hangs in the at is whether it's nothing you all know. how does

want me to envisage possible change a possible different dynamic where we know sitting is saying, it's not just nothing yahoo, it's not just god's, it's the most. the entirety of design is political class. so i think there's a problem here in terms of the project in terms of what design isn't going to do. what's written on the team and deliver security for jewish is writing, he's good, he's failed to do that is always the did of a devastation of about stages. i was that big into change. that's where one gets into the question of impunity. because unless he's real cost benefit, calculation looks different unless he's released held accountable. i'm not saying that would force he's raised to change, but it means that he's ready stop loss. the questions of these are worth it to treat the palestinians like the boost. if the authors you can get away with anything, then the question to be is what if it's worth? it doesn't even get aust getting and i saw you react into what daniel was saying there looks like you wanted to jump in. please go ahead. you know, we, we are only agreeing to more or less on the point that the focusing on

a 10 year old is easily state. i let me know. oh, years when the he's already brought, this is the old searching and demonstrating my best friends. they are demonstrating, getting something out of this is certainly not, this is josh, but it's not the point. and i tend to malden these pay attention to the professor is right now there is protesting against the war. no, there is protesting against the mesquite ingles, gaza, dental studies professor gives us probation, which can ensure that they need to pinpoint them. they, they, they are few jesus. oh, that is mentions. it's only about getting the engaging results. nathan, y'all, it is very easy to see, and i've been, you know, as, as the big say 30 which is a, by the ways. but hey, all you will suggesting instead will be my, you're suggesting, instead of being,

do you really publish the core of the problem on the phone, your service, you're going to drive by pointing out that the video just gets the, the theme is we're going to go back to become the 3rd dice that the trends about. so my answer is guys, that's not the point. yeah, daniel, i'm gonna give you is making a good point there. the fact is that in poll after poll in israel, it's reflected that while most is re lease one to see and that's in yahoo go, most of them are also still supporting the war effort, correct? executive, not to cook. it's a convenient story, but some in the west, some of these roles enable us in the us are telling themselves, so truck, hazel, the, the democrat lead and the senate gives the speech considered paul breaking. but it really boils down to, if it were me, there was no, not on yahoo. things would be ok. the bind administration sometimes seems to, to, to, and code this kind of thing. it's a really convenient,

really mistaken way to look at this. it's an easy place to go, because no one wants to actually charge the cause of this unless you do, you're not going to get any way. you know, nothing, yahoo success, it may be better, maybe one of us, but it's just a big one that has to address that systemic problem. anthony, if we're talking about systemic issues within israel and the is really government, one of the questions that continues to be asked in the wake of this resignation is, is this a 1st step towards account ability and israel. but if you're talking about accountability that looks different, depending on who you're asking, right them, you have account ability and is real towards the as rarely people with regards to the failures that lead to the october 7th attack. but then you have what many in the international community are calling for, which is accountability for atrocities committed in gaza? isn't that right in the show?

and essentially use riley's both unwilling and even capable of doing so within its own legal system. not showing that for years and years, and i think the question that we're talking about who really goes to a more essential one for these are all, is an interesting piece last week. and then your times written by benny morris, the right wing is probably historical. i don't agree with them pretty much anything, but he said something very interesting with him that he supported going into a rough friend, all these terrible things. but he said something, and i'm paraphrasing, here was the effect of, it's really, you know, people, that it's, it is the most unsafe place in the well, to be jewish, these days, easiest route. now what does that tell you about these rail? 75 years or so after it's best that coal, sandy semitism is real in some places in the world, undeniably it's a growing problem. but if i circled respected again, somebody don't really agree with. but someone who is a member of these really establishment argues and says that point almost as

a throwaway line. this goes 5 days and it's in yahoo will frankly, any political leader in his role. this goes to next essential question of israel's feature. that the whole cycle dream design is in miss daniels said was to provide safety for dues and clearly and i would argue it's almost impossible to argue against this. it is not safe for jews now, and i would argue long before october 7 and certainly in the last 6 months, even got more on the safe figures within his role. and i would argue in the global dice for this is the problem, is ralph faces and with that international pressure, which i think will start to build b u. s. in london and not going to be pushing problems in vi guys, but southern states will min sanctions and china forties riley sold is on trial and the companies that will happen, or at least attempt to move for that to happen. and this is where the, the game can change. all right, well, we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to our guests, daniel levy, anthony lowenstein, and gideon levy. hello. and thank you to for watching,

you can see the program again any time by visiting our website obviously, or dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also run the conversation on x r handle is at a j inside story. for me, how much enjoying the whole thing here, bye for now the the latest news. as it breaks, the doctors will say to witness the killing, knew exactly where to with detailed coverage. everyone is telling us they do not recognize their houses. they do not recognize their areas from the hall to the story. these attacks are taking place also was had a city in part on the roads, making it very dangerous for them to commute from one place to another.

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the nick log into all the top stores here on out 0. and the european union is edging an investigation into the mass graves found him. does a civil defense team say another 51 bodies it'd be recovered from the grounds of nesa hospital and con eunice. the remains of more than 300 people have been discovered since saturday. we are gravely concerned by the, by the report, the discovery of most grace in the county. you need, i mean i'll, she follow speed will be something that forces us to call for an independent investigation of all the suspicions and all the circumstances. because indeed it to create the impression that there might have been violations of international human rights committed. that's why it's important to have independent investigations.