always getting closer. great savings away youth squad now to the euro, early the adults to get up to 3 month free subscription or free set, top full experience. the great is supposed to be a big jump, the exclude to be the the 1st senior was really official, has resigned over how mazda is october attack. the military intelligence chief took responsibility for major security failures. message does extend during israel's war on gaza and could it be the 1st step towards accountability? this is inside storage, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much i'm ju, them more than 6 months after how much carried out and ambitious multi pronged defensive on southern israel. the highest ranking is really government official, has step down in his resignation letter major general, however, on how leave noted that authority comes with the responsibility and admitted the military intelligence director. it under his command had failed to warn of the october 7th attack. it comes as public outrage against proceed is really government and military failures. gains momentum will delve into the ramifications of he'll leave his departure and examine the demands for accountability with our panel in a moment. but 1st, this report from actual, simon, which a major shake up at the highest level of his really military intelligence. major general, a higher, unhealthy by his step down. more than 6 months, up to the surprise effect by how most spiders of southern israel that killed 1139 people in his resignation letter states, the intelligence director under my command did not fulfill its task. i have carried

up black day with me ever since. how late i had already taken full responsibility publicly in the days after the offensive, but stayed on due to the ongoing war in gaza. now he's become the 1st senior is really official to resign over the lapse and security reports suggest up to a year before the october 7th attack. israel had received intelligence that how much was preparing for an offensive in the days leading up to it both elyse and his really military intelligence noted, unusual activity in gaza. but those warnings were not heated. and this really military was taken by surprise leading to a delayed response, probably by his call for the establishment of a state committee to fully investigate the failings that led to the unprecedented assault. his resignation has increased the pressure and the prime minister. benjamin netanyahu, who has resisted calls, the step down. there is one line that was

the direction is directed to the prime minister. he says, also writing comes ways, responsibility, and now is the highest authority. and he never took responsibility. so actually, we still hardly wanted to set kind of a personal message to nick. anyhow, it's to tell him if i can do it, you also should do it with how leave us departure. the focus now turns to how israel's, the military and political leadership will address the chrome and public demand for accountability. excellence i much l g 0 for insights story. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our panel in london. daniel levy is the president of us middle east project. he advised that who the rock when he served this is really prime minister in sydney,

australia. anthony lowenstein is the author of the recently published book, the palestine laboratory, a global investigation into how israel's occupation has provided a testing ground for weapons and technology exported globally. and until we get in levy is a column this for the hearts newspaper and the author of the punishment of gaza. a book about the development of the israeli policy that led to the 2009 invasion of the gaza strip. a warm welcome to all and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. daniel, let me start with you today. so military intelligence chief, our own, how leave it has become the 1st senior is really official to resign over failures to prevent the october 7th attack. i'm curious about the timing why step down now? and will this set the stage for more resignations? i cannot speak to that question of timing bearer room is regarding one of these deputies having to have flat full health issues which may have actually delayed. i leave is a departure there is certainly speculation that has been for some time that some of

the security military chiefs who have very on the, on the stated their intention was that they would not continue uh, off to the and all the small, i think it's clear that nothing yahoo is looking at a long war forever. was that? um they would step down. i think some, this was intended to build pressure on the prime minister. it may be that some now feel that there isn't of pressure on the prime minister and this is a way of trying to generate that. of course. uh, there's no serious undertaking of a commission of inquiry, but i think one can get lost in those granular details. and missed the big picture, which is good, whether it's inside the military or the political clause. the ability to seriously reflect on not just what happened on that day. and this is the crucial thing. you've come to vote because he's narrow,

lead on this idea that there was an intelligent stadium and it almost up to the essence of every who is a role with the way this is looked at. but the intel chief has gone fast because the problem isn't one of entailed and not narrow security military sense. the problem is intelligence in terms of both, what if you looked it up in a dictionary, intelligence being intelligent, not being stupid. and the idea that you could keep palestinians in the situation without rights, without enfranchisement, without freedom to congress, the patient under the politic reggie. this would deliver security. that's the question of whether the intel flow is working properly. that's a basic stupidity. the will never hold. everybody i saw you are reacting to what daniel was saying there's, i want to let you jump in, but i also want to ask you what message does this send while the war on guys a continues a little i'd say to these riley public who are increasingly dissolution and makes

a lot not very strong. i mean, as daniel riley says, if i look through the intelligence in a very narrow sense, but i'll type a 7, was a contest of interior element in the broader sense. this was 5 bigger than that. and what i mean by that is that for many, many, many of these really public, this is not just a government and intelligence failure. many of these really public was sold. convinced i would say who links into believing that johnson's 2300000 of them, for the case, indifferently, without any kind of serious response. and a long, the guy's a israel fence. there has been huge amounts of these riley companies that have spent lots of money, billions and billions of dollars something i look at in my book, trying to protect israel from guidance, which clearly failed miserably. and it's interesting to know many of those companies that failed. so miserably on that day technology failed. the site failed us selling and testing weapons in gallons. as we speak to foreign bias,

smaller woods and intelligence chief cook chief can leave, can resign other people and i follow none of that will change the fact to the end of this war. whenever that happens, easier i will be less safe than it was on october. the 6th gideon, in how leave is resignation letter. he wrote that authority comes with the responsibility and that's being interpreted by many and israel as a suggestion that it may be time for prime minister netanyahu that he go ahead and resign. do you believe that her leave a was intending to send that signal that it's time for announcing the yahoo to face account ability. and it might very be a new wise what a body to put a guy with 0 to friends and a 45 minutes, which but this, against the jo. but you know, how do you guys know, did position to this? what to do? i know surprise the teasers, i need to actually surprise these residing to only know because you couldn't

function ever since the center of the door. okay. the function ever since that listen to he and he from what they said to him, what kind of responsibility to use it to listen to such a failure. so how do i forget the always on the agenda rose must go in the same time. i totally agree drawn julian down here, namely that we have the defender of the 7. this is just the small phase of these doesn't mean that people are responsible for the spread of to go where the big failure is still on. that's the thing is ryan, is a big, low jewel. any less from the sevens? he's a student believe so by the more intensively in the old believes that we can continue with their probation covina was about died there because even though a sold oh, you are not sold forever. give me and lemme just follow up with you and ask you about the fact that her leave also called for the establishment of a state committee to fully investigate the failings that led to the assault on

october 7th. if that's something we're going to see happen at any point soon. even if lucy, why muds don't expect too much to see those investigations coming to sydney's way posted for the last 4 months and a years. i didn't, no one remembers what was the cause of their establishment. and then the hour was vague and never voltage issue the expense of the $10.00 baby room and it always thinks any kind of committee will print visiting a committee. but everyone speaks about the investigation committee means to postpone every seeing an investigation with the conclusion, which was the yes by. there's her, it isn't to investigate. just thinks of stone clear. there was no on the, on the 7th there was no, we did a chance on the 7th, is already sold to buying jobs and the west bank well decades. we don't have any solution in any intention to put that into daniel,

i can see you reacting as well to get in this thing there. so i'm going to give you the chance to go and jump in as well. go ahead. well, i always enjoy. if that's the right, what i'm listening to get on. this is the point. i don't think people should have expectations from what an investigation within that structure within that system can come up with. because the questions will not be the questions that need to be off. yes, they'll be things about the was material that was asked on taken seriously, but it's that granular detail which is the least important lesson to learn because the questions that one could almost be guaranteed will not be on the table. all the questions of what are the root cause is, how do we treat the palestinians? i'm here i, you know, i think sometimes we get b, b, i test. we might be so much about nothing. yahoo, it's a system. it's just the demick strong violence thing. the,

the political class and the military or who, who adopted when, when you do hear people say, well there's going to be diplomacy fine. that's right. but if the diplomacy on alpha is nothing more than how one manages the system of occupation and a politic then that's not actually, you know, trying to do. so the question won't be on the table of whether it is relas. the process of having security collaboration with the palestinian authority in the west bank but has no credibility with its people of trying to blockade laws in. definitely because you think perhaps you can domesticate how much of a regional set of relations which are all built on. i would argue it costs phillips and so you know what, what is, what are these normalization abraham record agreements? donald is around in practice school they have to be is really, is this idea a whole side the things are ok. if we make peace with some people in the goals, we can continue to keep the palestinians in this condition. so the commercial

questions that need to be off will not be optimal. anthony said earlier is really important because one of the signals, the sense is the, the so called stop nation, high tech, pow wow. press been exposed forwards, vulnerabilities it, aged by us in the world. seeing, based on the world is seeing that it's really not managing a symmetric work that effectively because hamas and i would argue some of the on the resistance access actors are showing that you can turn the power piece route only itself. because when israel responds in these huge, the disproportionate way, it is, in fact i'm the minding, it's own equities, whether they be legal, moral to terence, etc. so we have to say, if we can pick up what daniel was saying there, and i saw you not in your head responding to some of what he was saying there. if there is the system in place, what happens in the event that there are more resignations? let's say at some point,

but nothing. yeah. whose political career comes to an end. many people in israel are calling for him to resign. if we get to a scenario whereby that actually happens, or if there are new elections, what happens there after? i wish i could say the outcome will be very different. it's in yahoo! on con paulding would probably lose an election bodies unlikely success. a many gans is very so united different on gaza on the occupation on any accountability just this week in the us as a now as possible sanctions on a particularly extreme element of the idea of, of commit issues. crimes in the west bank, many dances, response was equal outraged, along with mentioned yahoo! in other words, if we expect that to be radical change, when a different prime minister comes into, all of us will be disappointed in this guy is i think, to the broad a point that accountability, we've seen these ro, we've a decades has barely exist. annella woods, there's barely been any soldiers, little line generals actually held to account for crimes committed in the west bank

. oh god. so the only way i would argue this will really ever change. and i would argue similarly with the us, with his behavior in iraq and afghanistan in the last 20 or so. he is our international trials of soldiers or generals of politicians before an international course. the high for example, that shows a will be a cost, a price for committing crimes in gaza or the west bank and its west saying finally that we can investigate to israel can investigate the segments of october as much as it wants. how about what's happened in the last 6 months of segments? i want to tell you, but in my view was a crime. but what's been happening in the last 6 months, 354550000 potential palestinians killed the vast majority of famous civilians. there will be no investigation within these ro, for those palestinians who are being killed. and we've had accountability in an international forum because nothing as i can get. it has been riding this leg

mostly for years. but especially since october 7. he's riley culture within the public, forget about the military of intelligence. there's a beloved last families on accountability globally. sadly, this will not change. get in, you heard nancy, they're talking about the fact that you've written extensively about what you call a blood last in is really society. and that's something that i wanted to ask you specifically about. it's been a theme and a lot of your writing, one of your more recent columns. you wrote that it's doubtful. there has ever been so much thirst for blood and war in israel. and i'm curious to get your thoughts about how at this particular moment when there is a lot of condemnation of nets and yahoo and polling suggests that he's at an all time low when it comes to credibility, trust from the public popularity. how much is the fact that what you're calling this blood less existing is really society? how much is that?

helping him and his cohorts and government. unfortunately it's extreme at all because the sentence of october to these ladies out of the crows that all changed their minds. but in any case, after the 7th of october, these riley spiel that ever seeing is legit domains. that is what has the right to do what every tons, nobody needs knowing finish or no, don't matter. the nazi, both of these are the speed that does it is the spanish man. and most of these ladies think that these are didn't cause any line by cheating stove. i'd see billions now, and the video is just f. i figured in all these processes, but it's not only about the video. i write, i obviously told tag you need to watch the video, say that any guns would not be any any better. and no one else a potential candidate, some use or we'd be any better owner because of the simple reason that there is

quite a concern. so if it is for any society, it's these orders describe disparity defined the yes the my know to their families. very united. ok. well knighted about the basic family continue with the patient on to the floor. always ready. so all these or even up to 6 months of pay this. so supposing the will continue, the patient continuing the part, i guess, waterways, big big rates, if any forwarding is all support or really one opinion which saves actual so after the 7 is what will be the other which say be in the right to do whatever we want and nobody would you tell us what to do. daniel, i've spent quite a bit of time over the course of the past year, reporting from israel before october 7th. i was reporting on the judicial overall

protest where you saw a lot of anger directed toward the netanyahu government plan to try to overall the judiciary. now after october 7th, there have been these protests that have been increasing 1st. that was the family of captives that are being held in gaza. now there are more explicit anti government demonstrations that i'm curious to get your thoughts about. if you think that these different protest movement will co, a less against around sort of an overall angered towards nothing, yahoo and, and how that impacts him specifically at a time when his popularity is an all time low. when people are so angry at him when there are government officials that are saying they're taking responsibility for the intelligence failure that led to october 7th, but nothing. yeah. who is continue to say, essentially he's not taking responsibility then he'll answer tough questions, but it'll be later well, mom and i, i followed some of that reporting that you on the truck. yes. in the protest

has increased in intensity in recent weeks, somewhat less since the sun, many escalation with the wrong. there was anger over the extent to which nothing yahoo was de, prioritize the hostage issue. there was the return to some of that division that we saw prior to october 7th, and it may well be not on yahoo is in trouble. politically. the polling is not looking good for him, but there's no election uh on the horizon. and this is one of the reasons why nothing. yahoo is a particularly dangerous leader at the moment beyond what we have gotten used to because it seems that he's own political future is tied in to the continuing of the war. but i think it's a, it's really crucial to not lose sight of what's been mentioned, which is that if you zoom about the question of nothing, yahoo is a very effective politicians, very effective. we generally internationally,

we don't take that away from it a but the bottom off that he is set out is, is really quite consensual on either one of those back to, to october 7th. and absolutely, that was a violation of international law proceeded by, israel's violations continued off to it. the one of the things that made that possible that makes the failings possible is if you did schuman nice, the other side. if you hold them inside the content, then that puts you on the power to the kind of hubris, which i think led to these by using the, in the, in what happened. and you know, the fact that his route is at the international court of justice supposedly violating the genocide convention. the fact that you in special rebel to can write a report, francesco benet's, be in that to me. and again, this slide shows how much deeper than nothing you on this goes the blue label leader who's the president to be as well. isaac pallets, so he's the 1st pass and the i c. j quoted in terms of insight given to genocide.

and i believe because a good question that hangs in the at is whether it's nothing you all know. how does one in these each possible change a possible different dynamic when we normal sitting is saying it's not just nothing yahoo, it's not just jazz. it's the most the entirety of the design is political class. so i think there's a problem here in terms of the project in terms of whether design isn't going to do what's written on the team and deliver security for julie. she's right, is it is failed to do that is always the did of a devastation of about students. i was that begin to change. that's where one gets into the question of impunity. because unless these roles cost benefit calculation looks different unless is riley is held accountable. i'm not saying that would force he's raised to change, but it means that he's really stopped last. the questions of these are worth it to treat the palestinians like the beast. if the authors you can get away with anything, then the question to be worked if it's worth it doesn't even get aust getting and i saw you reacting to what daniel was saying there looks like you wanted to jump in,

please go ahead. you know, we, we are only agreeing to more or less on the point that the focusing on a 10 year old is, is a mistake. i let me know years when the he's already brought, this is that was the searching and demonstrating my best friends. they are demonstrating getting something, you know, this is certainly not, this is josh, but it's not the point. and i tend to malden these pay attention to the professor is right now there is protesting against the war. no, no, there is protesting against the mesquite ingles, cause i don't know if there is professor gives us the pension, which the kidding children that i need to pinpoint that there are few jesus. oh that is mentions. it's only about getting the engaging results and it then, you know, it is very easy to see, not been, you know, as, as the big say 30,

which is a, by the ways. but hey, what are you suggesting instead of the why you're suggesting, instead of being do you really that's the core of the problem or the phone you're saying you're going from dr. by pointing out the video, just get the theme is, will be turned back to become the 3rd dice that the address about. so my answer is guys, that's not the point. yeah, daniel, i mean gideon is making a good point there. the fact is that in poll after poll in israel, it's reflected that while most is re lease, want to see and that's in yahoo go, most of them are also still supporting the war effort. correct? exactly, and that's a, it's a convenient story that some in the west, some of these roles enable us in the us are telling themselves, so top hazel, the, the democrat lead and the senate gives the speech considered paul breaking. but it

really boils down to, if it were need, there was no nothing yahoo things would be ok. the bind administration sometimes seems that to, to a code, this kind of thing, it's a really convenient, really mistaken way to look at this. it's an easy place to go, because no one wants to actually challenge the cause is a based on unless you do, you're not going to get any way. you know nothing. yahoo success may be better, maybe one of us, but it's just, i mean, one has to address that systemic problem. anthony, if we're talking about systemic issues within israel and the is really government, one of the questions that continues to be asked in the wake of this resignation is, is this a 1st step towards accountability and israel? but if you're talking about accountability that looks different, depending on who you're asking, right them, you have account ability and is real towards the as rarely people with regards to the failures that lead to the october 7th attack. but then you have what many in

the international community are calling for, which is accountability for atrocities committed in gaza. isn't that right of the show and essentially use riley's but unwilling and incapable of doing so within its own legal system that showing that for years and years. and i think the question that we're talking about who really goes to a more essential one. so these are all, it is an interesting piece last week and then your time is written by benny morris . the right wing is probably his story and he went to an inquiry with, i'm pretty much anything, but he said something very interesting with him that he supported going into rough or, and all these terrible things. but he said something, and i'm paraphrasing, here was the effect of, it's really, you know, people, that it's, it is the most unsafe place in the will to be jewish, these days, easiest route. now, what does that tell you about these rail? 75 easels. so after it's best that's cool, sandy semitism is real and some places in the world been denied blades of growing problem. but if i cycled respected again,

somebody don't really agree with. but someone who is a member of these really establishment argues and says that point almost as a throwaway line. this goes 5 days for the nets and yahoo will, frankly, any political leader in his role. this goes to next essential question of israel's feature. that the whole circle, dream design is ms. daniel said was to provide safety for jews and clearly, and i would argue almost impossible to argue against this. it is not safe for jews now, and i would argue long before october 7 and certainly in the last 6 months, even got more on safe figures within his role. and i would argue in the global dice for this is the problem israel faces. and with that international pressure, which i think will start to build b u. s. in london, and not going to be pushing problems in di guys. but southern states will then sanctions in china, employees riley sold is on trial and the companies that will happen, or at least attempt to move for that to happen. and this is where the, the game can change. all right, well,

we have run out of time. so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to our guests, daniel levy, anthony lowenstein, and getting and leaving. hello and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website obviously, or dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also turn the conversation on x r handle is at a j inside story. for me, how much in german the whole thing here, bye. for now the a humanity has opened the gates of hell into seats is having orlando's effects as the world discusses how to reduce emissions. supposing an existential threat to humanity, a new oil rush is displacing. you've got the people empower, investigates, the relationship between the mikey oil giants of the global notes and the

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colleges when the, [000:00:00;00] the tide i'm nor i, kyle, this is the news our life from the coming up in the next 60 minutes is where the strength continue. his st. golf at the latest hall gets a home and rough us, killing 3 pallets sent in the pro palestinian protest spread across the us universities. most students are arrested for that position to

as well as the us senate signs off on a $9.00 to $5000000000.00 for an 8 packets full as well to crane and tie. one of