division takes on 6 is that was it was one lake at the time. catching the rain in india that makes a lie. a witness documentary on that jersey though the money fall in love. many young european americans use are raised to believe that the jewish identity is contingent on the unflinching support for the state of israel. well, that identity is now very much in crisis. is many young jews watch in graphic detail. the state of israel is also in gaza and the worsening treatments of kind of thing. and in the west bank, i don't think i realize the extent to which what i would come to see on the ground with really shocked me in for a finding a new documentary. cool. israel isn't costs

a critical eye on the growing generational divide among americans use on the question of kind of started with many young people increasingly becoming critical of israel and the less supportive of scientists you see what non democracy looks like. what we've been told is that the only way that use can be saved as palestinians are not. the more i learned about that, the more i can see that as a lie, it's a film by jewish people about jewish people and the state of israel about the fight for the freedom and the quality of palestinians will also be fighting mc semitism. but despite multiple attempts by some jewish groups to have it screenings, council join me over the next ha files the films main protagonist, somebody in zimmerman, and produce a co director or an accident to the minds of women in hudson. and welcome to tools after the 1st the congratulations

basically on the film was at the premiere here in london. that was a queue all the way down the street. i don't know if i can start with you and ask you what you were hoping to achieve with this feel. we're really trying to show a mirror for to our own community and really show our community the progress of american jewish community that we're not friends, that we're not a tiny proportion american jews. we're actually a mass of proportion. and then our views are incredibly humane and are actually aligned with the jewish values of social justice and fighting oppression. so i think we're really trying to show our own community that we're not alone, that we're not friends, that we are just as jewish and anybody else. and in fact, we are doing this work because of our jewish history. and because of our jewish values, i think we're also trying to show the rest the world, especially palestinians that we're behind you, that we are with you. and that again to fight for jewish values means to fight for policy and freedom this moment. and lastly, i think our film is also trying to help explain the wider world both why american jews historically have been. so pro israel, i think, is a lot of confusion about why is there

a progressive community. the american jewish community has historically been so unconditionally pro israel, and i think our film helps explain that. i think i'm also help show how and why the mass of transformations in our community are occurring as more and more americans use. come into contact with palestinians entitled to the narratives, and realize that we actually empathize with them and sympathize with them intensely . so what is the main protection is to one of the main productiveness in this film . how would you describe the journey that you went along? because it was by much of personal one. it was one of shattering me and i was, i was absolutely heart broken. the when i, you know, 1st encountered the post and in reality, you know, at 1st it began for me as a series of a questions like i was hearing things on my college campus that just didn't comport with the world view that i was raised with. and there's only so long that you can hear these testimonies but challenge your worldview. and i think everybody has a choice which is either to go deeper into a denial to close yourself off from reality, or to face that head on into say,

what does this actually mean? and what does this mean about the narrative that i currently hold on? it force me to do a lot of the pre evaluation and how reflective is your personal re evaluation of many other jews in europe and america when it comes to how they view israel? i mean, i think my story is not unique. it's as aaron said, this is the story of a generation. i meet people at every single screening who, you know, come up and say, hey, you know, i just spent the last hour and a half sobbing. the story spoke so deeply to my own experience. we hear from people who say this has enabled them to have the painful conversations with their loved ones and the people in their communities. and yeah, we feel we know that this is not actually a unique experience in the jewish community. that's something that's happening to people all around the world. i mean at least the 1st pretty much off of the feel moment. all nice and went into huge detail about the whole indoctrination process

process. so particularly american jews into being loyal to the state of israel. but why office film seems to want to do is we claim that sense of jewish identity. so as you suggested, how is it possible to do that without conflating pain, jewish with the actions of the fees. ready? government? yeah. i think, you know, as you talked about, you know, a pack and many other kind of pro israel organizations have really tried to tie a jewish this to a piping the pro sinus jewish loveliness. and a lot of these kind of major pro is real organizations in america, have really tried to tie jewish mis judaism to israel and say that they are essentially the same. so one of our film even says, israel is judy, is them, and judaism is israel. i mean, i've had many people on the center in the center, right. and many people have told us that, that they really believe that these 2 things are linked. and i think what we're trying to do is show that ruling over millions of people without basic rights for decades and decades and decades. is not judaism or southern jewish about it as someone actually said, recently one of our screenings,

and actually many americans use support israel, or think they support israel because they think is real, is aligned with their values. we often hear narratives of israel being the speaking of democracy, the only democracy in the middle east. it's a amazing place for queer people. these are the narratives were taught. and when we actually see with our own eyes how israel is treated, the palace to mean people, both historically or in the knock book and, and the occupation obviously this ongoing genocidal bombardment of gaza. we realized that actually the opposite is true. that is really policies don't align with our jewish values at all. and that actually to be jewish in this moment, to fight for our jewish values means fighting for the safety and freedom of all people who live in that land, both jews and palestinians. and just adding to what happened just said this, somebody in the message time and time shed by these ready state, is it only israel is able to keep 2 safe? is there any safe haven i'm hold on? is it possible in the making of this film to lift the veil on some of these is a physical them foundation mips, you know, given how sensitive these narratives are to these rapid identity. i mean,

i think it's clear in this moment that israel's actually the most dangerous place in the world to be a jewish person today. you know, every single day when i open my phone and look at instagram, i am seeing the mess that i grew up with. revealed to be lies that israel's most moral army that you know, there's really army, is the most moral army in the world that they are not harming civilians every single day. the reality that young people are seeing live stream to our phones just absolutely demolishes business. that is really military's conduct in the gaza strip right now. just demolishes every single one of those. and that's that we were raised on just the drill down into the idea of the, the, the, the permanence, the, all the questioning support for these really ministry, which is really pretty, came out to and in the field. because one of the quotes attributed to the 1st female prime minister of israel golden man, is often pub power phrase by benjamin netanyahu. his days,

if the arabs put down their weapons today, they'll be no more violence if the jews put down their weapons today, they will be no more. israel something explored in the film, was not state of perpetual readiness by the israeli army. that has led the many ways to the glorification of the idea for just one of them in the context of what's happening in gaza. whether that's being seen, to explain some of the ministry activities carried out by this way, the army and got it to see. i mean, i think it's a tragedy of jewish history that this idea that to live by the sword and this, you know, 4 to 5 militarize nation state has been sold as a path to safety for so many of our people, when we can see that you know, of course the most endangered people right now are the pallets and, and people have gaza. but israeli jews are also not safer. right now in this situation in which they live in a country that's committing

a genocide. and that is in flaming tensions with the entire region. i mean, in what, what world are israeli jews or anyone else made safer? and you know, i'm really grateful for organizations like breaking the silence who have, who are former testifiers from the idea of who, who speak about, you know, every single red line that they cross in terms of their own morality. when they're told that they're going to, you know, fight for a battle for the safety of their country. and every day witness that. what that actually means in real time is humiliating and degrading the daily existence of another people making every day life and there in their villages. um, you know, across the occupied westbank, living hell feeling like soldiers are watching you at all times. and of course today, you know, i mean the reports that we're seeing coming out of gaza, or just once again there are no red lines. and every now, what if i could send to you and ask you about the time frame in which this, this,

so documentary was made because it was started long before the events around the going to type with the 7th. i just wanted to with hindsight whether as a filmmaker perhaps you could have gone further and drilling down into the suffering of palestinians to really shine a light on some for i don't places for this really what it yes or film was began in 2016 and took about 7 years to produce initially were very small production team just like my co director myself. we eventually got some really amazing producers, both palestinian and british jewish producers. and yeah, it was a really tricky balance because we are so much really about american jewish transformation. so lots of the primary protecting us are jewish, but we transform and that transformation occurs because a contact with pallets and decides in paylocity and stories to palestinians. obviously, very prominent in the film, but because the main story is on americans with transformation, it was a tricky balance. we really wanted to in a relatively short period of time, try to convey what palace to mean. life is actually like in, you know,

under military rule what it's like to live your entire life in a wall off city and which an 18 year old israeli soldier has complete control over whether you can enter or exit where you live. but yeah, you know, it was a tree call, pretty call and we didn't end up having a mass amount of time going to make really digestible film. so we definitely could have done more to show kind of the horrors that palestinians go through that one more show what causes are going through. there was a section the film on guys, a button hines that we would have actually covered because even more has the, the timing of which this film being released, taken on a whole new dimension, a whole new meeting significance of the phone today. yeah. you know, um it came out in february 2023 and so a number of months before october 7th. but we just announced that on our 1st kind of major tour and released our trailer only weeks before october 7th. so it was kind of in the middle you both for people who are looking for resources to learn about the context of what was happening as well as are people who are trying to cancel pro palestinian and progressive jewish speech. what kind of become a lightning rod in that way? and i think also the film kind of resonates to a certain extent because many of the phenomenon we cover in the film had

accelerated dramatically since october 7th. especially the phenomenon of labeling any criticism of israel, even if it's being done by jews as inherently and do some of that. even if it's talking about basic facts of reality. and also the other phenomenon that is expanded quite dramatically is again, this massive movement of dice bridge used across the world saying not in my name and saying that we are probably jewish. we stand by and with our history and with our ancestors. but what we're seeing is doctor, these tell us about the, the attempts to, to, to cancel showings of the film. there's been many after october 7th, especially i think a lot of pro is real. people are looking for something to do and looking for ways to again, you know, fight what they saw as anti semitism. and a number of right when activists going to begin targeting our film and the number of massive email campaigns started telling universities and film that used to cancel our film, saying that our film was dangerous to do with people that it was anti semitic. even though in most cases it was jewish, active as groups or jewish leaders,

including is really active. as some leaders bringing our films. i'm to the news for to campuses, which very ironic sound. the guys are protecting jews. they were censoring progressive jewish voices. but when universities or venues attempted to cancel our screenings, it was really incredible that both jewish activists and pal student activists said, absolutely not. we're going to show this film no matter what. so we've had virtually no successful cancellations. we've built, we've been able to essentially were 1st all of them because of progressive to saying what, this is my story. this is literally the story of my life and palestinians also saying, you know, how dare you sense or, you know, critically important palestinian and progressive. jewish voices in this moment that are providing context. i hear from college students all around the country who are as air insides, you know, bringing the phone to campus, allowing them, you know, giving them a, a tool to have these conversations about what is the context that i was missing before you know, to help them make sense of, of this moment because part of what the film is showing is that, you know, there was both

a context of deep oppression and injustice that existed before october 7th and also that there has been, you know, these debates and these rising movements of young jews criticize them, is really government for, for years and for decades. so or yeah, it's been just really tremendously meaningful to, again offer people a tool through personal experience and personal narrative to then think about their own transformations. and you know, that's what university campus should be about, that's it was, it's it because of my experience on my college campus that i was able to undergo the journey that i went through. i remember when i was a college student that at 1st there were certain things i heard that made me feel very uncomfortable, even i might have set up the time unsafe. and i was really passionately pro israel . and there were a lot of parts of that world view that i had never questioned or interrogated. and it took me a long time of hearing. again, hearing these stories, testimonies from boston and students that really did not comport with these this

rosy narrative that i had of israel, where i was forced to, you know, ask questions or i remember, you know, i, a conversation i once had with a grad student who was actually in his railey and design this too. and he said to me, and i said, you know, when you use words like apartheid and ethnic cleansing, they make me really uncomfortable. i feel like you're attacking israel. and he then explained to me that the words, ethnic cleansing and apartheid are actually terms that have, you know, legal and historical meanings that accurately describe things that were happening on the ground. and you know, that totally disarmed me. because again, i was taught this like deeply anti intellectual posture to kind of like dismiss these facts and these realities that are really happening on the ground. so i think the 1st thing is, it's important to say that, you know, activism is not meant to be comfortable. oppression is not comfortable. and for many people that you know, being confronted, i might not initially change them in that moment. but activism over time can,

can force people to face things that they don't want to face and can lead to transformations. the other thing i want to say is that an american college campus, or sorry, a university campus anywhere should be a place of learning. and it's so deeply concerning to me that we've seen, you know, administrators both in the us and then other places who are caving to this pressure to sensor posted in activism. and i like spaces to actually learn because that is what a university is supposed to be about. and we're seeing in the us, i can speak to this. specifically, we're seeing the way that pro israel group are finding alliances, building alliances. but some of the most, you know, racist and anti democratic forces in america that want to ban, not just the teaching of, you know, critical history about israel palestine, but also teaching of critical history about america. and it's such a dangerous precedent that's being set if you, you know, allow the censorship of teaching and activism on this issue. what's to say that

there you can't do that on any other issue. i wonder if i, even if i could pick up on a really important point that simone has raged based this about how fractured jewish and opinions um. one of the things that you'll feel really focused on an achieved is to show the shoes divisions, particularly geographically and generationally. most importantly, when it comes to the see to the views and opinions around the state of israel. and obviously you do a film through a spotlights on a bunch of that already american israel, public affairs committee, you a back up just repeated the powerful pro site as to should all be in the us. the reason of course, a tendency outside the jewish community to forget that there are deep divisions. tell us more about it. totally. yeah, i think the pro israel kind of like right in america has really tried to perpetuate the meth and the successfully done. so for many decades that we are united on israel, that the american jews by large, almost all of us support is real unconditionally or almost unconditionally. what's

ironic is that, that's not true at all. it's the opposite. in fact, we are a deeply polarized and divided community, and that's a much more honest and accurate picture of where the american jewish community is pulling from 2021 that's widely cited on the right and the left shows that of all american juice about 25 percent think israel's in apartheid state, it could be in the crime apartheid. we would a younger and used about 40 percent by 40 percent of jews under 40 think israel's, through the crime of apartheid apartheid is a very strong word. i think a very accurate word, but a 40 percent of young jews think israel's in apartheid state. i think we're probably already at the point where 50 percent of young american jews realize something is deeply wrong. how israel's treat the palestinian people, both historically and in the present moment. so i do think that we might actually be the majority of young american jews already. we're still them in the minority amongst all jews. but i think again, what we're trying to also do is help actually paint a much more honest and accurate picture of our community, which is one that is not united, but actually the opposite. incredibly divided and incredibly polarized over this

issue to somebody. did you think your findings were put choose outside israel off from ever wanting to lift the challenging question, but benjamin netanyahu is often i suggested that one of the biggest existential threats to the state of israel may be not a mass don't stomach. you have not a rod, no arab state surrounding israel, but a reluctance by young jews not to want to go that. i mean, it's, you know, we've seen time and time again pro israel organizations and individuals actually admitting that what they see as one of the biggest threats are, you know, critical jewish choices. we saw in the last election cycle. you know, a pac poured millions of dollars into defeating and 11 a former synagogue president, you know, a very active jewish leader in detroit, michigan because of his relationship with congresswoman where she that's way. and

so i think what that speaks to, to me is that there is a deep hostility to the idea that jews can co exist in multi racial democracies and coalitions and part of what is so scary to me as a jewish person in this moment is the in the way that pro israel politics often set jewish communities apart from people who can be our natural allies. you know, in this moment we're seeing all around the world the, the actions of these really military and flaming not only anti semitism, but also in flaming. you know, as on a phobia and anti air of racism around the world and people around the world, we shouldn't be committed to taking those issues on together. seeing that jews and muslims being attacked industries anywhere in the world right now is this is a threat to the safety of all of our societies. and so it's, this is also part of why it's so important to us to publicly challenge this

conflation of all jews with the state of israel. you know, that's why it's so considering to me that president, fighting repeatedly says that without israel, there is not a jew in the world who is safe. american jews should be safe because we're americans. it's the job of the american president to protect all people in the country that we live in, not to be sending bunk bombs and guns to a foreign military. it with us to look into that a little bit more if you don't mind because of face to face is happening here. the u. k. at the moment as to whether or not you guys should stop sending, sending um is ro, we know that spain, the netherlands, the belgium and canada stopped handing over to us though it continues to send billions of dollars in web just as well. so too, does gemini, does not make the world a safer place or more dangerous place, which is absolutely a more dangerous place, which is, you know, um, i recently heard uh, there's a ton music passage. its like a, a saying from the rabbis, who said that, you know,

i love without, without accountability is not real love. and you know, i just wish that more people in our community would investigate that idea. what is this notion of love for a place with no accountability right now, we should all be yearning desperately for the israeli military. and these really government to be held accountable for these, you know, crimes that are being committed against the palestinian people. a world in which, or any government, any military can massacre people at this scale demolish entire cities at this scale. shows such callous disregard for human life and there to be no consequences that should terrify all of us the world, the precedent that has been created by this government being allowed to act in this way. and on top of that to say that all of these horrors are being committed and the name of safety for our people, for jewish people. i so deeply believe that, that in dangers, jews around the world associating us with this absolutely reckless,

you know untethered government that is showing such callous disregard for human life. i know the both of you may database as a result of this feeling. i mean, you both being cold anti semitic older you're both judge. and then last thoughts slow, they repeated multiple times in the film self hating to every. now what if i can start by asking you what does it like to be called a self hating to, i mean, luckily for us, we know how absurd and ridiculous it is. again, my family fled violent anti semitism. my family has a long history of pride in our jewish faith in our jewish history and in fighting for social justice in america and other countries with my family has lived. so i think it just shows that, you know, the pro is real right, is not actually willing to engage with the material that our film talks about and met the movements that are from covers actually, you know, talk about what they are more interested in doing is totally trying to deal with the demise us pretending that we're either again still feeding jews or not really

jews at all. and by doing that, by trying to deal with him i as a so fully they're basically saying that's all we have to fight against you. they don't actually have good arguments against what we're talking about. so they treat us with lawyers, they call us names and we knew that would happen when we made this film. it never gets less painful to be told. you know that you're a traitor to your own people. i can just say that, you know, it's because i was raised in a community in which, you know, deep intellectual inquiry and critical education was prioritized. but when i learned these things about this real life, i kept wanting to learn more, and i got and want it to be part of these, you know, a rigorous and critical exploratory conversations about what all of this month. and i'm, i'm sorry that it's inconvenient to some people that you know, the conclusions that i've come to didn't fit with the political views that they wanted me to have towards the end of the field. i think it's fair to say there was an attempt at healing and we witnessed a jewish rabbi in

a therapeutic circle and nice talking to other jew sharing what it is like to feel like an outside or do you feel that these are opinions or fringe opinions of a left field or they mainstream smith. i mean, these are our opinions that has been pushed to the fringes of our community. there have been very active attempts or as we've already talked about to, you know, smear, anybody who dares to criticize these really government to stand with palestinians as a trader, as an authentically jewish as self hating. but we also know, as aaron mentioned from pulling from the movements in the streets, we see these movements growing. we see jews out in the streets, you know, calling for a ceasefire and gaza calling for posted in freedom both because of our jewish values. and because of our commitment to our own community, we're doing it because we see that as also part of the way to fight anti semitism. to break this publish perception,

but the horrors that we're seeing and gaza are being done in our names. and every single day that movement is growing as more and more people are facing the horrors that are being committed by israel, the, the reality of what this country has become and are speaking out and are joining the movements before we go. i want to ask one question to both of you and as they said, and i wonder if i could start with the able to ask you in the process of making this film, whether there is anything the loose scene experience that you could be hopeful about. i think i'm hopeful because of the massive movement of americans use and dice bridge use for fighting for justice both where they live, as well as in israel, palestine, and incredibly inspired also by the incredible solidarity and the growing movements of both jews and palestinians working together across the world who are fighting for safety and freedom for all people between the river and the sea. this is not going to be easy. again, you know, the 1st thing we need obviously is to cease fire. but also again, i'm also incredibly encouraged by pulling we're seeing about who wants

a ceasefire. again, you know, brightening pro is real orange in america. even said, calling for a cease fires had to submit a polling shows over. a majority of americans use of 50 percent quantities for only about a 3rd of americans use. want the war to continue. so even though to the larger pro israel organizations claim to represent us, their claim on leadership is going away. and people are beginning to realize that they actually do not represent mainstream american jewish communities. and that means from american jewish communities. our progressive we do support social justice, we do support equal rights both where we live, as well as in his real palestine society share those hopes. i think for me, i'm taking a lot of hope from being and this growing movement from seeing people who are speaking out, seeing people taking, taking action for the 1st time, taking risk they've never taken before confronting their communities, confronting the institutions around them. and so we can only hope that there will be accountability for these kinds and the opportunity to rebuild to main zimmerman

or an accident. thank you for talking to hodges the listings in the gaza strip as easily as long thoughts continues. there's a deliberate mission of posting and humanity in western media, and it needs to be question, sustains coverage that actively humanize as is readings and actively the humanize of palestinians. this is not the time for doing this kind of way. tracking those stories examining the journalism and the effect that news coverage can have on democracies everywhere. here, at the listing past, these are the most these old dramas they used to march through the old city before dawn box with an increase is really military precedence. it's too dangerous. as

daylight arrives at, austin begins instead of traditional decorations the street as follows. clinic cods images of young palestinians killed by his ready forces. it's not just a lot of decorations, usually during ramadan, thousands of policies and tory or is the cities often define the seasonal we used to belong on the street right now look, it's easy to move around. i think i would say more because the difference in exploring goal is to change the situation and not listen. we have 70 percent more business people here say the heart of the month is even more significant this year . a foster emphasize with those hungry and suffering in casa, in the polls. what is known as a breaking stereotypes full, while practicing the ancient mush allowed to come, it has made me physically very fit and meant to be very strong. the mission is to serve the community, helping offers, cleaning up the streets and educating young guns, $1.00 oh,

$1.00 east beach to come food, nuns, cap men do on al jazeera. the for an independent review says israel has failed to provide any evidence, so it's claims that some employees have been un agents for palestinian refugees involved and they have tons of 7 tomas attacks, the hello on and there's a problem and this is out of your life. from the also coming up, dozens of students protested, supporting palestine. the rest of the universities in the us has demonstrations for to move campuses north korean leader kim jong, or the supervisor role controls that simulate chung young calls, a new to a counter attack.