news as it breaks there was an angry increases in the by the government knows. with detailed coverage but i was once known as the coldest city in venezuela and that's why people are not used to the situation. from around the world. it's been over a decade since the year had seen her granddaughter see the please. welcome to the stream i'm femi oke a a group of atomic scientists warns that the world stands at 2 minutes to midnight that's their way of showing how close the world is to nuclear war kind of anti nuclear activities stop the doomsday clock send off thoughts from twitter by nature .

the recent test of a u.s. missile has heightened alarm among anti nuclear activists that a reckless new arms race threatens humankind the launch of the modified tomahawk missile on august the 18th came just 2 weeks after the u.s. formally withdrew from a missile treaty with russia that was after 32 years but the actions of other countries are also fought with risk analysts say that a recent radioactive explosion in northern russia is a sign that more sco is developing new weapons that can evade a missile defense and differences between nuclear armed india and pakistan over kashmir have jangled nerves across south asia what can activists do to convince the world leaders to abandon the bomb for more we're joined today by cicely thompson williams he's executive director at beyond the ball that's a grassroots campaign to prevent nuclear or from geneva we have bit trist fin executive director of the international campaign to abolish nuclear weapons or i can. the campaign won the nobel peace prize in 2017 and action of a night is

a founding member of india's coalition for nuclear disarmament and peace he joins us from new delhi and everybody it is really good to have you here this is not a conversation is on top of the headlines right now but many of our own like community feel that it should be take tristen for instance tristen guy yet here's how she feels we should start a conversation have other. people today are facing so many existential crazies that it's really hard to ask them to focus on just one but at the end of the day nuclear weapons already are not just one issue it will cripple our climate as soon will nuclear exchange will put us into a clear winner and one person gets to make that decision so to me that's just the entity this is of democracy but the problem is that these issues don't get talked about enough there's such a lack of awareness that that's really the only very or to getting people involved

no matter how old they are bitches if you found that there's a lack of awareness with your work as you're trying to engage people around the world to be aware of where our nuclear arms are what danger they may pose to us yes i mean i do think that there so a lack of awareness but it's not really surprising given us so many issues right now that requires our attention and the fact is that most people do nor what new to us are they know they're bad thing or the mushroom cloud so i think it's really it's more my license the biggest problem is that people feel disempowered people feel like they can't really affect this issue and i think that's the biggest misunderstanding right now on this issue so see i'm just looking here at the estimated global nuclear warhead that tray and looking at the countries you have them united states the u.k. france israel pakistan russia india china north korea now should we look at this map and be terrified. yes i think we should be i think that it's healthy for

humanity to understand the risk that we're facing with nuclear weapons and looking at the hot spots that we find in the world there are nuclear weapons and almost all of them so i absolutely think that we should be terrified but i think we also should turn that into action and i think as as beatrice noted the travel and just that people don't know that they can have a voice they don't know that they can play a role in changing the system actually you know very well about what it means to have a voice you have been campaigning for a new country someone meant for so long we really appreciate your veteran voice in our conversation let me share with me some of the recent comments we've had as we said about doing the show this is most in baba he says nuclear weapons of course mass destruction like in japan have a shame that a sucky but paradoxically that can be a weapon of peace also especially when both countries a nuclear armed your response to that and nuclear weapons and start us from going to war willis is the old story about deterrence of the italians is worked.

and deterrence is based on the idea of generality extreme fear if you want a symbol a simple simple one sentence definition of security through nuclear deterrence it goes like this it's the irrational belief that charitable fear will somehow always ensure that your enemy will behave the way you want although you can never fully control the circumstances which will determine your enemy's behavior it's ridiculous in fact the reason why i say is that with so many reasons number one there is a logic of what is supposed to be a deterrent so you can buy those not all of it and that is that it's enough to have what's called a 2nd strike capacity. that is just if you're a bully or use of nuclear weapons are those you have enough to get back and get what you want. but how does this explain what is up with since 45 and

that is this is the norm was good enough weapons to blow up the world many times just looking at change just looking back at this map here you know you say 6 at 6000 nuclear weapons and more than 600 russians got more than 6 out why would you need more than 6000 children on a want to risk a head. i mean i think this is really goes to the point of the whole issue that this idea that threatening to mass murder civilians is somehow acceptable i mean of course you can always get people to do what you want by threatening terrible things with terrible consequences like bullies do but it's not sustainable it's not going to last and the consequences of nuclear war are so unimaginable so unspeakable that it's not going to be worth it in the end and that's very hard to to prove the absence of something we're seeing nuclear arms they go to war to each other we've seen really close situations like very recently and you know pakistan where we have

these huge tension we've seen the military concert there escalate and nuclear weapons could be useful and i think also i want to really know just settling i can hold tight one minute says he's going to go ahead and you come in 2nd and i think one of the really critical factors here and beatrice you laid the groundwork for this is that people feel as though this is such an overwhelming existential threat that they just psychologically they just shut down right they don't know how to address it they don't know how to deal with it and so they just turn to other issues and there are so many other issues today to choose from that it's very easy to not pay attention to this one because in reality on a day to day basis this isn't affecting people until it does right and then it's catastrophic and it's too late so i think from our perspective when we look at how we get folks to engage in nuclear advocacy we talk about ok you're. issue whatever it is that really drives that passion in your heart whether it's immigration or in climate change or women's rights today is women's equality day and so we know that

there are these huge movements working on all these other issues ok those things are going to be negatively impacted should we have a nuclear catastrophe and it is part of the broader progressive space to say we need to protect all of that work by preventing nuclear war. yes i was just going to say taking a virtuous is point the most likely use of nuclear weapons is not that one side because their weapons are suddenly deny or if they're going to use that against the other the danger comes when there's a conventional conflict and that's why the india pakistan situation is so dangerous because we've had conventional companies and what happens once a lot of mention is that there's always the possibility of what's called an escalation dynamic that is just a 2 sided start off by saying we're not going to use weapons reach a position where they get to thinking that maybe the other side is going to use it therefore i am going to use that and tensions escalate so the game have started up

and not wanting to use it they need to position when it becomes very serious and in practice in the 1999 conflict between india and parts on both sides prepared to use it the 2nd point which is all question about deterrence which is just what the point is that they just said very correctly that this is a counterfactual how do you explain something that has not happened. let me just write the question you were just doing this as well because our commission was i wanted to be part of this conversation here this is fun i.c.j. from my says nukes keep everyone accountable but it is a tricky thing suffering government should have them not unstable countries i think we're witnessing right now and i definitely change what countries may be stable and unstable i say no more pictures just go ahead i mean this is the thing right i mean we think that some people are responsible enough to have these weapons and it's ok if they have it but others will be really dangerous. and i think that's a really dangerous way to look at the issue because if some people have it others

will always have it and who is responsible is extremely subjective today and i think that what really has it also talked about was that this is an issue that's so connect to other issues this is really about power the people have made nuclear power to do something special like it's a technical issue it's not it's about power and on. and primitive and there are some countries that have taken the power to dominate the rest of the world and say that you have to listen to us or to do what we want and this is the nuclear moment as a sort of like a justice movement about making it will everyone has the same right nobody should live under this bridge no longer have the power and all has the right no one is better the 2 nuclear arms states that have the biggest arsenals russian you know slaves are clearly not the most responsible government at the moment basis to make such a great point is something that dan so it's online actually talked about he describes himself as a child of the atomic age this is what he says he has just got a new talk about being part of the nuclear disarmament news and it's got

a way too technical the general public doesn't cope well with shades of gray let me remind you like i am back to the 980 s. some of the huge protests that happened a movement on is the nuclear freeze and you can see how engaged the public was around the world at the time have a look at the time has come. and they have come to speak of many things from bologna italy and beatrice nebraska at the gower japan and east harlem in new york city. a great in gathering people. some to demonstrate. some to make a beginning. some to challenge. some nonviolently to bear witness. but sharing a simple idea. domme the madness of nuclear. ceci there was so much energy back at that time people were genuinely thinking

about how do i stop this how do i stop global leaders how can we do it. and progress wasn't how do you reinvigorate the movement for today well i think what we have right now is a reinvigorated movement around creating positive change and in general but it's very diffuse right we have women's march and we have the sunrays movement and the work that they're doing on climate change i think it is imperative that nuclear activists are integrating into these broader movements and really showing that this is an issue that doesn't stand alone i think with we're finally at a point where society is beginning to see that all of these issues are interrelated because our system is fundamentally broken and so we need to address them through a system change together. that i had was that you know i yes i think on one hand when you talk about the nuclear freeze movement always remember that you and you knew your moments in europe were in fact even more progress in the united states that talked about nuclear freeze in europe and the e.n.d.

europe in your doctor about. what europe which of course is but strong the other point with celebrex i think is very very important what is the lesson that we can learn from these remarkable moments and you and i just i mean in europe and in japan the seventy's and eighty's and that is that cannot be the basis for a very long struggle right. you know there was fear there i mean that gave rise to a great sense of what was there should we have to connect and he knew there's still going to be just and also such as we have to connected positive notions of justice and i suggest that for example 2 things have been mentioned earlier with betty betty. actually that the existence of humanity which is the ecological devastation and the question of. weapons and you also connected

with us which is very important we live in the world which for the 1st time in human history there's little blue scarce resources and yet all but 2 and a half 1000000000 people who knocked out basic needs and you have the most incredible inequalities of wealth and problem which under which of course undermines democracy and all those that don't so i think these 3 things have to be connected and you have young people connected to legal logical moves and your brothers are very much. and so on and we have to get. beyond the national framework you have to develop and promote a sense of internationalism even as you start to. like that i want to build on that because i think here in the u.s. we have a very unique situation compared to the global movement on this issue and i think one of the things that really has been a keystone of that is that people are terrified of donald trump having his finger on the button right and so the fight in many ways has become let's get donald

trump's finger off the button and i think that's a distraction from the actual situation which is that the system is broken and we he's just a symptom of it his ability to start a nuclear war if he wakes up in the middle of the night and wants to new current gains as recently happened. that is really just a symptom of a system that absolutely as for ok and there is no reason that one person should have the sole authority to launch a nuclear weapon just because they they feel like that some of the ways they you know actually. connecting with people just reminding them about this is the organization beyond the bomb on twitter saying this guy has sold our t. to launch a nuclear strike grimace and then one more back here which is that johnson is the chief executive of global 0 and he this graphic here can trump get us all killed in a nuclear war yes red yes but in blue that is disturbing and i also want to bring in one of our community who was talking about who has

responsibility which countries have responsibility and katherine here feels responsible i think should be at the u.s.'s feet have a listen have a look as much as north korea has to nonis with nuclear crisis i believe in parity for the united states to become a leader in the global into. being the 1st and only country to have used nuclear weapons new he's rich in our society so as we continue to advocate for nuclear disarmament in countries like north korea who have been as you knew 20 to 30. compared to our roughly 6000 united states was a moral responsibility to lead by example to honor its treatments and to resist stiring into another arms race as we're seeing when i was shooting. bettas you pick

up on that as an international organization it takes everybody but the idea of the u.s. you broke it you fix it philosophy i think it's i mean obviously the united states and russia are the biggest nuclear armed states they have the biggest arsenals but i do think that we need to stop focusing on just some countries because again those people in the hall it's out of our hands how am i supposed to empower trump or putin they don't listen to me and i think that one of the things that we've been working on is to get all the governments in the world to take steps and take action and make commitments of this because if you think about it other issues if you want to fight racism it's not just a problem of kook you can it's a palm of everyone it's about the inappropriate jokes about our prejudice it is about all the structures in society and the structures of this wouldn't go up and as well our banks keep investing in nuclear weapons producers our universities are involved in the new weapons research for example we are governments in europe are

exercising with nuclear weapons together with the united states for example there are so many more parts to the problem so i really think that we all have to take a stand if you are not against nuclear weapons you are part of the problem everyone let's be practical now gas is when the last little 3rd of the show so let's talk about what people can do to talk about rebuilding this nuclear disarmament movement this is just come in live. audience have been watching you speak and discuss this world leaders meet regularly for various discussions but that hasn't brought an end to the production of nuclear weapons i think a new form of diplomacy should be taken because one day it might lead to war this very destructive action pick up on that a new kind of diplomacy to. you know one thing of course which is very important is the treaty for the prohibition of beauty of weapons and i agree with beatrice that you have to cut non-nuclear weapon states to come together which they are and to actually promote and sign and get into force this because what they're saying

basically is that your nuclear weapon states are criminals and we say that you are criminals and that we are going to seek to delete d.-d. legitimised and i think that's what he secondly in countries like india and south asia the 2 nuclear weapon states india pakistan. i'm not going to. talk about your solution to that we know but you've got a country like but. which is criticizing. a lot of countries like the news about the fact because if there is an exchange between india and pakistan it's going to affect all of them so in many ways you have to work around so we have for example the button that they should government which is criticize the foreign minister was that there should be a south asian to do so but structurally follow the bug only example. and it becomes a. snap in the face of islam and we need these kinds of actions we need why

does support you get a cost you would like to see it said yes you what they said yeah but we're not just leaving it to you and not just you get to the movement within the united states we're going to salute the rise of course. your commitment and if you don't go as long as you have all other new governments it's not equally shared but they're all crooks and this idea of a responsible new leaders is an oxymoron and we have to get that across and i think this is something that's very important that you. said he's given me what's behind that so i think i want i want to say as organizer and campaigner that's based here in the us that the global work is so critical and our work is really focused a massively on u.s. policy but we are invigorated and we have an energy at the local and state level that is thanks to so much of this global work so i think one that that's really critical but i do think that here in the u.s. we are at a moment where no 1st use policy is within striking distance we have legislation in both the house and the senate we have presidential candidate elizabeth warren

sponsoring the senate legislation the topic being discussed on the presidential campaign trail we're at a moment where people are scared that donald trump has this finger on the button they recognize that something needs to be done and we have actual pieces of legislate. and that will move us forward to a place where we will be in a better position to continue advocating for in for a ban of nuclear weapons so i think that we need to seize this moment here in the u.s. and take the opportunity that we can over the next year in order to push for no 1st use the public is in support of this policy whole after poll has shown that the public supports no 1st use that they think in many cases that that's what we already have they are flabbergasted that it would be allowed for our government to start a nuclear war so we need to take advantage of that momentum and move forward with with pushing for that legislation so i guess one of the things as we've been talking is that this is about a very positive conversation also quite

a negative one as well i'm going to bring this negativity from the online community and then wrap it up with some positivity because that's me 68 here at least once every day since about the age of 11 i have thought that one day an all out nuclear war will be started by accident politicians are never going to give nuclear weapons up however well organized protests that is the negativity but for the positivity let me take you back to 2017 where the treaty in the prohibition of nuclear weapons was adopted that united nations i want you to see the joy in this announcement have a look. trading on the prohibition of nuclear weapons has been good to. have you here. because. you feel you can walk through.

bread treasure looking happy that was your big head in the way that i bet i think. that was a great imo but where are we now i mean the dreams i can't say it's 2 minutes to midnight but in terms of new thinking practically about building this this movement momentum we're all way. well i think that the negative comment there really is completely wrong because people can influence this i mean that's how we change the world that's how we got human rights treaties that how we are same sex marriage that's how we got the geneva conventions you know that's how we banned chemical biological weapons in this is not just the precedence of countries just suddenly come up with a good idea and do it because they're nice about it i mean politicians change when the public change in the public demands so really this is an issue where the public

actually has all the power and we really we can do so many things we are right now are working to get this treated under the force to really come to jamaican mode more of a burden for the new ground states to how can they want to get rid of it when in the public doesn't like it when it gives them a lot of disadvantages in international relations and that's what we're building so right now we have about 70 countries have signed this treaty and we're working to get more more to the majority of states in the world and then just start going local in the interim so it's nothing to the on the bone doing amazing job right now we want to hear this or hear any level of the things that will have a tape of beatrice then who is actually saying that it is possible to get rid of nuclear weapons you also heard from action of a naeyc and also sesame times. action you cannot because we're at the end of the show but i thank you for all of your thoughts and your input jane this conversation

just proving how important that nuclear weapons having them around the world and maybe seeing how we get rid of them is still a top issue for us as global citizens thank you guest of being with us thank you online community for being with us as well as the online always at a street take everybody. september on al-jazeera up to gears of war and famine al-jazeera looks at the dramatic transformation emerging to the inspirational stories of for diversity p.o.b. and israel elections can mention and that's a young film a majority and sometimes another town listening post to 6 the world's media and how they operate and the stories they cover do not succeed the natives in president dissent see join us for live coverage as tim is you know it's a documentary that examines the worst atrocities committed during the war in libya

the lead september on al-jazeera. the foreign minister. for the nomadic jhankaar tribe survival is about reaching their destination a little if we don't hurry we'll never be able to give the thumbs up in the storm we follow the mongolian herdsmen on a treacherous migration. and race dangerous to the ice and then as they strive to

preserve their traditional way of life here a little bit longer sometimes luser cattle in the cold there will die of cold water because of the storm risking it all mongolia on al-jazeera. i really believe that iran can be a great nation that they can have nuclear weapons hopes of a breakthrough between the united states and iran as the g. 7 summit comes to an end. hello and welcome on peter davi you're watching on to 0 live from doha also coming up brazil rejects an offer of 20000000 dollars to help tackle the fires raging in the amazon.