in female psychology we believe in emmy and her feelings, when we read a novel, it seems to me that when we generally pick up a book, then we, one way or another, the proposed circumstances, as they say in our theater, we are immersed in them and also become part of course, we believe this story, because we get used to the narrative style, to the language, we ourselves become part of the book we read. but i considered flabert’s statement somewhat differently when he said, madame bavraisa and mua, not from the point of view of comparison himself with a female psychotype or an understanding of female psychology, but most likely for him, bovari is a kind of collective image in which he, among other things, sees himself as a person who does not recognize a... surrounding,

well, this mishchansky way of life, weber also died in poverty, he is also broke and the point is, in deep loneliness, it seems to me that it is also important that this is also such a moment of revolution in literature, that flaubert writes on behalf of a woman, and he, we see the novel, as if through different characters, but everything flaubert writes this, therefore here he is charles, here he is emma, ​​and so he passes through, very interesting characters.

on one page and he set such tasks for himself that he should not repeat a single word, what a perfectionist, and in his letters he wrote that he had written two pages, he was already going crazy, he couldn’t do it anymore, he really succeeded with very... with torment, but despite the fact that he was accused of immorality, and of some kind of vulgarity, and today he is a flaubert, today flaubert is a classic of french literature, on a par with balzac, on a par with balzac, yes, absolutely exactly, such a subtle player on male and female emotions, and such a great specialist in the relations between men and women of that era and that time. well

, i think this novel will be useful for everyone to read. this was a must- read podcast. i'm aglaina batnikova. today we discussed gustov's flaubert novel madame bavari, the famous scandalous one, with oksana bondarenko, director of the moscow transport museum, a francophone. and the most beautiful actress alexandra revenko, who played the role of mrs. bavaria in the theater, still plays i will perform, i will perform, come to the performance. you can find all episodes of the podcast as a must-read on the website of the first channel 1tv.ru. with you is the popular science podcast schrödinger's cat and i am its host grigory tarasevich, chief editor of odna.

happens in schools, we have guests today, singer victoria daineka, a psychologist, the main one especially about children’s bullying, which is an expert in the no bullying program, maria afonina. hello hello! hello, let's start right away with the personal, the emotional, i hope we can handle it, let's each of us tell our story of school bullying, that's who is ready first, victoria, you're brave, let's try, okay, let's try, my story of school bullying began with my first performances at our school, in our pop studio, here i'm generally in i basically learned what a modern word is. at our school there were

these large benches with wooden coverings in the corridors, where it was possible to compile a dictionary of swear words in relation to. surnames of vicki daineka, all the shops there were simply written off in my honor, one day i went to the toilet, there were no partitions in our toilet, there was just a large tile wall with my name and surname written in lipstick, the whole wall was covered with some creepy things, words, all this, not to mention the desks and so on, and if this was such a written form of hatred towards me, then... then there were also personal speeches by some girls from our school, they threatened to kill me, they threatened a lot of things, well, in general they told me a lot of terrible things, they called me to some conversations, arrows, i don’t know what to call it correctly, i remember that i felt

terrible fear, i was incredibly scared, i remember how i cried on my mother’s lap, saying that i won’t go to this school, they will kill me there , mm... in general it was creepy, i don’t remember my mother’s reaction at that moment, but i remember that quite quickly i moved to another school, a lyceum school, where there was a very small intimate atmosphere, by the way, after the incident in the toilet , where everything was written down, and i told the teachers, i say that this is generally something like this, i was scared, because i was terribly scared, and i also don’t remember how it all ended, but i remember that i myself came to meet these people and... and i remember these conversations, how my knees were shaking there, how i tried, i don’t know, somehow, to turn these people out of haters, not like my friends, but to somehow calm them down a little, but thank god, there was never a fight it came to pass, i

was never physically harmed, although i of course experienced colossal fear and, most importantly, stress, just moving to another school, where there was a completely different atmosphere, there were very, very few students. more control over everything that was happening, only there i was able to calmly go to school, happily wake up and run there, to that school, which was actually located under the windows of my house, and not somewhere on the outskirts of the city, i remember, honestly, some small nightmare that, thank god, is over. thank you very much for your frankness, maria, do you have a story of bullying, i have different stories, because i have played different roles this phenomenon, well, usually in bullying there are not only victims, there are instigators, those who start the bullying, there are, well, the so-called instigators, those who join this bullying and there are witnesses, that is, these are the people who, perhaps , they

themselves do not write any unpleasant inscriptions and do not call them themselves, but nevertheless , with their tacit approval or the fact that they do not interfere, they make a very big contribution to all this. this is my first experience when i encountered bullying, i was just in the role of a witness, suddenly in our class at some point i came, they started poisoning the girl, and well, they called her names, somehow teased her by her last name, no one wanted to sit with her, when she entered the class, everyone there ran in different directions and somehow laughed, then in the end, apparently someone hit her, because i remember that her nose began to bleed, this is a very interesting experience, for example, mine, when i was in the fifth grade, then... it seemed to me, of course, it was she felt very sorry for this girl, and well, i was in shock, it was not clear what to do about it, but at the same time there was an inner feeling that this was how it would be it must be, but it means that she is doing something wrong, since she is being bullied like this and even had her nose broken, and this is what very often

it is the witnesses who feel at the moment of bullying, that something seems to be wrong, but since everyone is doing this, it means it’s possible and it means it’s necessary, it means she herself is to blame, then i have the following... the story of the collision with the trawls was when i was, well, one might say, in the retinue of the instigator, in ours some- then the russian language teachers changed and they gave us a young guy who had just recently, apparently graduated from university, for some reason we decided that we needed to bring back the old teacher, and someone couldn’t come up with anything better than to start poisoning this young teacher, and well, it was also a very unpleasant situation, that is, we over they laughed at him and refused to answer. it’s a pity that at that moment there wasn’t some adult, that is, the same school director, maybe if he had come and somehow said: “listen, well, what you’re doing

definitely won’t help get your past teacher, but you are causing enormous trauma and in general, harm to this young teacher, who, well, in principle, did nothing to you, well, nothing like that. is happening, why should you treat him this way, i think that this could somehow have an effect on stopping this whole process, this is not interference, it is actually, well, generally terrible, and i... always thought that i i was never in the role of an aggressor, but then i remembered that i also organized persecution against someone close enough to me, and i remember that i involved a fairly large number of our mutual friends so that we would run away, there was no they were friends, threw some notes, well, at that moment i wanted to somehow punish this person, and of course now, when i remember this experience, i did n’t remember it right away, only thanks to the fact that i started working. in this program i realized that, well, i really was an aggressor, this is probably what many aggressors feel,

that is, as if over the years this experience is forgotten, it seems to them that what happened is normal, but of course, this abnormal, and well, it’s a pity that there wasn’t an adult nearby who could i would also like to somehow draw attention to this situation and say that what you are doing is wrong and this is not necessary, and i already became a victim of bullying at the very last moment, probably when i was...

this is happening , and i advise everyone who listens to us to think, maybe at

some point you and i became aggressors and just didn’t notice it, we thought that it should be so, but there were definitely victims of bullying, i remember this from school , it was very unpleasant, i still wear one on my right hand, to fortunately, the mark was already barely noticeable, either in the sixth or seventh grade , during a chemistry lesson, classmates extinguished the mark on their hand, that is, they twisted their hand. i would, firstly, advise myself to talk more about what is happening as adults,

because when you are a child, well, you yourself cannot somehow resolve this situation correctly, now having your own child, i kind of see her situation , where they can also poison her in a children’s camp, or something else, i immediately intervene in the situation, because i don’t want this somehow it later happened to my child, because she is a little... more sensitive than me, if i am quite militant and can somehow stand up for myself, then, for example, my child cannot, she will cry every day refuse to attend some classes there, just so as not to have to deal with this, and i, of course, immediately intervene, because i believe that no one can stand up for children, except, well, their parents. maria, what advice would you give to yourself? at that moment when i was a victim of bullying in the camp, yes, i was probably like that, like victoria...

other children, because exactly the whole camp was not the same detachment i was in, and i could try to find support somewhere on the side, and this is also important. yes, because a child, for example, if he is in school, he is bullied there, then it is very important for him to see that school is not the whole world, and that there is, for example, some kind of section or the same camp or something else -where he is not bullied, and where there will be people who are on his side, who will be for him, in order to avoid any negative consequences bullying, i probably also have to answer

the question, and to be honest, i don’t have a complete answer, well, one method that you mentioned, i... implemented, that is, in addition to the seventh grade school, thanks to my mother, i had a geological school , where everything was completely different, i was at a school at moscow state university, where there was no bullying, where rather the opposite, i was almost a star, well, not a star, but a respected person, definitely not of the lowest rank, and i don’t fully understand about my parents, i didn’t tell my parents, it seems to me that for girls and boys it’s already in principle different, that is, if girls can come to mom and dad, please, then if... you are a boy, here you probably should be so strong on the contrary, like i don’t complain to my parents, well, let’s say it’s a girl, so she told her parent what should parents do to help in this situation? the most important thing to do is to calm down first, because if a child comes to you and says that he is being bullied, then of course there are a lot of emotions, that’s important, well, how to help

yourself calm down, different ways help everyone, that is, you can call a friend go about... the next thing is that many parents also seem to skip a stage, because they run straight to school to do something, it is very important to support the child, and here when talking with the child, it is important to emphasize that this is terrible, this shouldn’t be the case, that the problem is not in you, and this is not because there is something wrong with you, but because the class suddenly decided to behave like this, that is, you can... be tall or short, there you can be beautiful to sing or not be able to sing, whether it’s smart or less capable, it still doesn’t give no one has the right to bully you, this position is very important to convey to the child, because bullying very quickly begins to have a destructive effect on his self-esteem. the next thing is that it is important to tell the child that i am with you, and i will do everything that depends on me to ensure that you are safe at school, these words

help the child to feel much more confident, and you can continue to go to school. try to do something there, or also, for example, change schools if at school, in the one where the child studies, it becomes well, it’s really quite unsafe when you put out cigarettes in your hand, or when the dials are jammed, well, that is, apparently the situation there has really already gone too far, but if it hasn’t gone yet, then what to do, what to do, a parent came to school, says, my child is being bullied, what else should he say, yes, he should say that my child is being bullied, of course, if we are considering some kind of ideal story, it would be good for the teacher to agree with this, then it is important to start working with everything class because a if we only talk to the aggressors, stop doing this, if we only talk to the child victim, behave differently, if we put the aggressors and the victim together, try to come to an agreement, that’s all, well , it doesn’t work, well, that’s a concern teachers, what should a parent do, so he came to school,

signaled everything, but he came to school and signaled, said what was happening, well , i don’t know such and such a date, this happened , this happened here, this happened here, every time my child suffers, the same children are participating in this, this is bullying, so please, please take action and agree with the teacher when these measures will be taken and what exactly, for example, find out in a week what has changed, what is being done, if nothing is being done, then go to you can submit a written statement to the school director, in which it is also important to list all the specific facts, that is , describe everything, everything, all of it and... ask the director to take measures to protect the child, if nothing works out at this level either , no one with the class doesn’t work, no one stops the bullying, then well, then change school, because the child’s continued stay there is not very safe. you are watching the podcast schrödinger's cat, i am its host, the chief editor

of the popular scientific magazine schrödinger's cat, we are discussing the topic of bullying today, i will even emphasize it. the word bullying, so as not to use the more neutral word bullying. bullying, it seems to me, belittles the importance of this terrible, unfortunately widespread problem. and we discuss bullying with our guests, a psychologist maria afonina and singer victoria deneka. victoria, you said that if you were giving advice based on your experience, you would advise turning to parents more, but what did you expect from them? i waited. because i just wanted to feel that my mother was standing right behind me , that she herself was ready there, i don’t know, to call that person to a meeting and tell him

what was going on, but one day, by the way, my mother, i was very i am grateful to her, because it is very interesting that a teacher once dealt with my bullying, she loved me very much discuss in front of all the classes of our lyceum, i told him that i had only one accordion in my head, when i had to finish school... it was my mother who allowed it, and for me it was because then this situation was able to be important not so much the grade in my certificate,

how much her support is, and i also want to be the kind of mother who will also stand up for the child, and i actually behaved absolutely the same way, probably in some situation when, as it were, when you see the tears of a child and unfair relationships, then you're not you say that everything will be fine tomorrow, you say okay, i’ll solve it straight away. and this, by the way, is solved, in fact, when you turn to teachers and say that there is a problem, then one way or another today, probably, this is more widely heard and more like, if possible, in my time, when i was studying , somehow, well, they didn’t pay much attention to this, and these are consequences per person, but now teachers really say: okay, we ’ll figure out the situation and then the problem, it seems to me, will solve itself, yes, yes, this in fact, this is so, there is simply... another problem that, unfortunately, not all teachers know how to work with bullying, but there is already a huge movement forward that they recognize that, well, many teachers admit

that indeed there is such a problem, they are ready to do something about it, and in general , how important is this problem in russian schools now, is it complex, or is it all from the dark past, but it is important, complex, there really is a lot of it, research is different, but on average they give the numbers are somewhere from thirty to...

well, such as preventative ones, that is, there is a block for teachers, a block for parents, different class hours for children, we have such a large document called an anti-bullying charter, it describes what each participant in the educational process needs to do when bullying happens at school , including there is a piece in this program about what needs to be done.

i liked it, and this is the moment when, in fact, teachers, well, all adults, should have said that this is a problem, and we begin to work with it, that what the teacher should do specifically, he gathers the class and prepares for a certain number of regular such class-wide meetings, and the first meeting is devoted to what the teacher says: in our class there are quite big problems with communication, you can, for example, say that in our class happened...

have you ever encountered something like this in your life, that’s why it seems to you that children, for example, somehow don’t support the boy, and we also share our stories, that is, if i were a teacher, i i would say that here i am i also encountered bullying when i was at school, i felt like this, children usually respond very much to this when they look and see that the adult is also telling, they share a huge number of different stories, about bullying, about some problems in the family, in some

circles, in camps, a situation in the classroom, we play a game , help them make a moral choice, it’s very simple, but we suggest giving yourself one, two or three points depending on who is what here is the contribution to this a boycott that exists in the classroom, those schoolchildren who never participate in the boycott give themselves one point, two points for those who do it, well, some more often, some less often, but would like to stop it, and three points for those who say that i will

always participate in the boycott, and you in general... convince me, practice shows that usually the majority give themselves two points, there are those who give themselves three points and say that we will always boycott, but this is also important information for us, it’s not worth it to be scared, because well, that is, we understand then who is inclined, and well, maybe it’s worth working with these children separately, but when we see that most of the class, they all vote together, says that we are organizing a boycott, but we would like to change something, this is a very important point, because we are saying: about what’s cool, you all say that a boycott is happening and you want to change everything, so let’s think about what can be changed, and this usually takes here's one lesson, yes, the next lesson is us we agree on, well, rules, about how it would be comfortable for everyone to communicate in class, for example, there, that we don’t know, we don’t insult each other, these rules are also formulated by the schoolchildren themselves, so that this is not imposed on adults further, we, for

a certain number of weeks with... that is , all the schoolchildren work together to ensure that these rules are followed, that is, we usually either hang up a mailbox, they put notes there, or we put some two containers into which they can throw tokens different color depending on whether the rules are followed or not, then we look, discuss, often already at this stage there are fewer episodes of some kind of boycott, then we have the next lesson about, well, respectful communication, that is, about borders, about friendship, about friendly companies, how to be respectful.

because of all these personal problems, it is not always possible to graduate from some educational institution; as for aggressors, those people who, as it were, constantly fell into the role of an aggressor, yes, they are statistically more often become people with deviant behavior, statistically more often use psychoactive substances and participate in crimes, this does not

mean that all victims think victoria, how did the experience of bullying affect you, if you are ready to admit? and you know, it is very difficult, as an adult, to determine what exactly affected what, because over the course of life a sufficient number of various injuries occur, including injuries from bullying, but i must say that, probably, until 2014 year, this is the year when...

social events, filming, something else, interviews, when you need to communicate with people, this was difficult for me for a very long time, until now my favorite entertainment in my free time is to sit at home, not go anywhere and not communicate with anyone, i don’t know how much, how much of this i don’t know if it’s the consequences of bullying or something else, but i honestly try to avoid society one way or another when i can, i’ve even had situations when i came to... for example, a social event, alone: ​​i i'm ready, i'm wearing makeup, i look beautiful, i'm i like myself, that is, i’m already kind of a little bit confident, but i’m sitting in the car and practically crying because i can’t get out of it, i can’t, i can’t force

myself to go into the company of people right now, i don’t i know whether i will meet an acquaintance or whether there will be a stranger there, but i will feel uncomfortable, i don’t know if this is connected with the consequences of what happened there in my childhood, this aggression, this and not... this rejection, but then that i am not very comfortable in society, yes. are you watching the podcast schrödinger's cat? its host, editor-in-chief of the popular science magazine, and we discuss bullying with our guests, psychologist maria afonina, and singer victoria. watch all episodes of the kud sjötdin podcast on the website. channel 1tv.ru. maria, how common is bullying already in adulthood, at work, for example, in adulthood it is also common, and i, for example, know these numbers that somewhere

around 80% of people who have encountered bullying already in adulthood workplace, they talked about how this is one of the the most traumatic experiences in their lives, and this was compared, among other things, with such serious shocks as, for example, in principle, not much has been done, but, in general, the principle is still the same, that is, it is important that person, in the organization where he works, well, there was a place where he could come to say what was happening,

well, something was not very normal, and so that there was some kind of service that could, well , provide support to the person in this situation, but in practice, of course, this is not yet very a lot, victoria, probably now that you are famous. figure, you receive hundreds, it could be thousands of messages, how bad, terrible you are, how do you like that? now it’s easier for me to perceive it, but still it all depends on the context, sometimes it happens, they can write like this, that you’re still, well , you’ll be upset, you’ll worry, when i was very young, only everything happened to me, the factory of stars and the first forums, i read and thought: what did i do to them, why? why, why is that? did it stop me when is it on my way? no, was i pleased, of course not, but now i try, you know,

mentally, just to wish this person well, because i understand that a person who is doing well, but he will never go, he will never write what - that’s nasty stuff, that’s... but even if, roughly speaking, i don’t like someone, i don’t like someone, i don’t have time to look for this person, page, write something, so, but... set it up, and imagine that there is a fourth chair here, and this main one is sitting on it

the aggressor, the main one who mocked us, what would you say to him? i don’t know, for some reason it seems to me that those people who are the aggressors and behave so badly at school are, as a rule, unhappy children who simply cannot cope with this misfortune that happens at home, to express it somehow differently, so they try to behave this way. look, right here, tell him, right here, an adult came up to the man today and hugged him, said, everything will be fine, you don’t need to be embittered at the whole world in order to somehow to realize yourself in this life to feel better, i would just hug this person, honestly, it seems to me that then the anger would decrease, well, by the way, this is cool, a very very good move, this is generally excellent, maria, here you are, imagining here...

or not everything, but at least

i live well with this, i haven’t forgiven you, i probably want to end our podcast on this emotional note, it was a podcast by schödinger’s cat, and i’m its host, grigory tarasevich, editor-in-chief of the magazine schrödinger's cat. hello, this is a theater podcast and i and its host anton getnam. today we have an unusual release. there are two guests on air at once, with whom we will discuss how two key theatrical professions exist in the theatrical process, in the professional process: director and artist, and we will discuss this with my friend, artistic director of the moscow pushkin drama theater,

you left, yes , yes, well, for four seasons, yes somewhere, but at the same time i did not leave the pushkino theater, because at the same time i still staged plays there at the invitation of roman kozyk, here, but before that, of course, on the one hand, i kept dreaming about the theater, dreaming about acting, but on the other hand, how exactly will this unfold, why will i end up in the theater,

why will i be tied to this place, of course not , absolutely, i loved other theaters, i went to other theaters, sasha, and what about you and mine? indeed, there may be something similar to the story, but it may be less conscious than that of evgeniy sanovich, because it seems to me that i opened my eyes, i woke up, probably at the age of 16, when i entered, because everything that was before was some kind of dream, although it also happened, this is also my life, and this is what i also consist of, of course, but i had a hard time going through my school years, and this is, in general, a large part of a child’s life, so i was very much.

speaking, i chose this business, tell me , yuri khatorevich temerkanov once told me, well, of course, it was a joke, but nevertheless, looking from st. petersburg, he said that i have the feeling that in moscow there is one big symphony orchestra , where musicians find themselves depending on the program and concert in certain theater halls or in certain concert venues, tell me, taking into account the current context of the moscow drama theater, this half-joke, half-not-a-joke... has something to do with the collective collective dramatic troupe of moscow, because today artists migrate from troupe to troupe and play in different theaters, different performances, but at the same time many of them are constantly in their corpse, there is

some kind of story that exists in academic music, certainly in musical theater, that today is like this... now theaters are in many ways directed by directors , or even if they are led by a director, then in many ways it is still management, and in many ways these are still not monotheaters, but theaters where different directors are invited, since different directors are invited, then well, actually speaking, artists

are able to exist in different styles, in different manners and so on, and i, for example, always think that it’s better to invite us, and then go out somewhere, how to say and see what’s happening in the world and how to say go out somehow outside and not just lock yourself in yourself at home, too, does it make sense when you receive offers to participate in performances of other theaters, not the pushkin theater? other theaters, some kind of decision-making moment arises, is the priority still the pushkin theater, or are there still some circumstances that can push this priority aside? well, for me, too, it’s very much like , well, this is my native theater and indeed, there for so many years i have been connected with people with so many

things, and of course it’s a home, a home that you want to protect, to which you want to bring, to which you want to bring, but sometimes it happens that in order to bring something into the house, you need to go somewhere and get something for yourself, and this is absolutely normal, but evgeniy sanch knows, i always discuss everything with him, so if they called me there, here they called me, i always consult with him.

i have yet to fully call myself a teacher, but i also wanted to get in touch with this area, and i may not give up yet, maybe i will continue further, i don’t know how it will work out, but this seems important and interesting to me profession like knebel it is written to teach by learning, this is absolutely accurate, i directly understand that all the people who teach, they learn, they stay. young, well, in a creative sense, or what? yes, well , that is, in some sense it prolongs the creative age, yes or what is it? i

just want to understand this exchange of energy with young people who come knowing absolutely nothing, but apart from the wild desire to be an artist, yes, but you constantly communicate with young people, you still understand this rhythm, which is no longer yours, but he is there today yes, this music, these films, you can say this, you haven’t read this, you haven’t watched that. they say: you haven’t read this and haven’t watched that, and i understand, yes, yes, i don’t really know their world, and i don’t really know, and for me now, if i want to be with them, i don’t want to be like them, but in order to, after all , the path of a teacher is some kind of steps towards each other, and we must take them together, young people, students who want to be actors, and i, who, i remember how they taught me then, yes, i live my own life there, but for something... maybe i don’t know anymore, maybe i can’t hear something anymore, and i still want to somehow not become ossified, this is also a way, pedagogy is also a way not

to become ossified, pokrovsky once told me, when he invited me, he said: firstly , you won’t be able to hack, i say why i can’t, because the people to whom you tell how to do it in the morning can come and see in the evening, strictly speaking, and maybe it’s very simple, but nevertheless it’s always like this for you i can say that it keeps you in some kind of tone and doesn’t...